Thanks! Yeah, it was a strange list I didn't know if that was something Shardless was trying out now? But he had the Visions + Shardless Agent, Tarmogoyf, Deathrite, Baleful Strix, and Stoneforge as well. It was pretty greedy to say the least!Originally Posted by poxy14
grats on ur perfect finish! glad to know our deck's doin good..anyways, it was only now i saw a shardless list that carries equipments..or it might be an esperdeathblade...
Ask Obama for a Magic: The Gathering subsidy while being dressed in pajamas.
Here's why you should never underestimate a nimble mongoose
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and...end-four-lions
Hi,
I played a larger tournament Saturday 9/20, (40-50 players) with RUG and went 8-0-1. This was the first time I played the deck for real because I've been missing two Tarmogoyfs for a
while. The tournament was a great experience, especially since i won (lol) but also because I felt like I was "in the zone" in all the games I played. Actually I didnt lose any game but
2-0 every single match. I was extremely lucky rolling the die, I don't remember losing any rolls during the first five rounds, and since I was leading in points I had the luxury of going
first all games throughout the quarters to the finals. However I also won every game two, when I played on the draw.
Standard 54.
3x Gitaxian Probe
1x Spell Pierce
2x Forked Bolt, figured there would be more creatures than control/combo which turned out to be true.
SB
1x Rough // Tumble (should be two and not one Pyroclasm but only have one copy and the guy who was going to lend me didn't show up.
1x Pyroclasm
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
2x Flusterstorm
3x Submerge
3x Pyroblast
2x Grafdiggers Cage
Infect 2-0
(-4 Daze, -4 Stifle, +3 Submerge, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Rough, +1 Pyroclasm, +2 Pyroblast)
Was careful to bolt his threats (early) in the match when he was tapped out. He managed to swing for ten infect but I had left an unflipped delver to chump. Quite close game but I won
since he had to protect his life total by chump blocking my goyfs. Second game was a little bit strange since he attacked me twice with an unblockable creature with an untapped
pendelhaven. I guess he wanted to protect it against forked bolt + leave his only green source up to pump in case I had lightning bolt. I think he should have been more aggresive
since I had neither of them in my hand.
D & T 2 - 0
(-4 daze, -1 FoW, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1, Pyroclasm, +1 Rough, +1 Sulfur Elemental)
Opponent short on mana (1 wasteland + plains) throughout the game. I blind flipped a Delver and had Spell Pierce and Force of Will to protect it. I saved my stifle vs. his batterskull
trigger which gained me an imense amount of tempo because of his shortage of mana. Game two was a bit closer. He played Thalia which I bolted which was a turning point in the
game for me. In both games I actually ignored his turn one Mother of Runes, it didn't do anything, since my opponent was too afraid to use it. This sounds strange but I think a lot
of death and taxes player are overvaluating it vs RUG. My delver flies and my other creatures are green (not red) and are often bigger than his creatures, and when he uses his MoR I can
bolt the creature or MoR in response.
Elves 2 - 0
(-4 Daze, -4 Stifle, -1 Spell Pierce +1 Pyroclasm, +1 Rough, +3 Submerge, 2+ Grafdiggers Cage, +2 Flusterstorm)
I have to admit, I drew two lightning bolts and one Forked bolt. I was completely destroying his board and doing three a turn, followed by Goyf or Mongoose. He had no shot of winning.
Game two, I drew one bolt and two submerges. I submerged his dryad arbour twice to gain me tempo and swinging with goyf and delver. The nail in the coffin was pondering into a
grafdiggers cage.
D & T 2 - 0
(-4 daze, -1 FoW, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1, Pyroclasm, +1 Rough, +1 Sulfur Elemental)
Won the die, as always :)
Don't remember much of the game other than that it was close and I forced his Aether Vial on his first turn. He wastelanded me which he actually said afterwards was a mistake since my
dazes became very effective. I managed to hard counter twice with daze and fly in with delver(s). In usual fashion I had stifle up for his batterskull trigger.
Second game, pondering or brainstorming into a destructive revelry was excellent since I could now relax and not fear his SFM. Instead I could tempo him out with liberal Force of
Wills which I would otherwise been more reluctant to cast.
Shardless BUG 2 - 0
(-2 Daze, -2 Stifle, -2 FoW, +3 Submerge, +2 Pyroblast, +1 Rough)
Very close game. I luckily drew a delver. He played DRS and I Force of Will it. He played sylvan library which was active throughout the game. The game went on and he needed a second
abrubt decay for my second delver. I countered his cascaded ancestral visions with spell pierce and force of will the second time praying he wouldnt find his decay with his sylvan library. We
raced, I had a delver and he had two Shardless agents. My life total was a bit higher so I only needed to protect my delver from lilliana which I knew was in his hand. My last card,
daze, was live vs. the lilliana and it was a relief when he finally played it into my daze. Second game he mulled to four! I didn't mind my chances vs. this tough match-up. I had kept a
one lander with ponder and delver. He played forest go. I played land ponder but didnt find a land and shuffled. No land there either. I played delver go. On my third turn I found a
fetch land and it was game over since I had seven spells in my hand.
Im now 5 - 0 and leading the tournament.
I'm playing UR delver with Pyromancers. He is 4 - 0 - 1 and we decide to draw.
In the quarterfinal I play goblins and play first.
Goblins 2 - 0
(-2 Daze, -2 Fow, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Rough, +1 Pyroclasm)
He plays Mogg War Marshall twice which puts me in a tight spot since they chump very well vs. my large goyf (6/7) As ususal forked bolt is excellent since I can burn two X/1 and force
through nine damage with my goyf and mongoose which puts him on the defence.
Second game I mulligan to an excellent six-card hand. He plays fetch and fetches a Badlands. I probe him and see he doesn't have any more colored mana, only two wastelands.
So I go ahead and wasteland his Badlands and passes. He plays wasteland go, I play land - ponder. He plays second wasteland and passes. I'm kind of surprised he didnt wasteland me in this spot.
I play Mongoose and land. He doesn't finds any lands and now it's too late to wasteland my lands. I follow up with a goyf and it's kind of gg.
Semi-final D & T 2 - 0
(-4 daze, -1 FoW, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1, Pyroclasm, +1 Rough, +1 Sulfur Elemental)
I play the same guy I met in the fourth round. I'm not sure if he made any misstakes, but I won the games easily. As usual I think D&T overestimates the value of Mother of Runes by not
blocking when I offered him to trade it with my Mongoose. I personally think this is a misstake since he can't really deal with it post threshold. If I knew he would block I
wouldn't have attacked.
Second game he can't deal with my delver and my counterspells. He made plays like not block my Tarmogoyfs with mother of runes to force me to Lightning Bolt it which I think is questionable.
Final. UR delver with Pyromancer 2 - 0
(-4 daze -1 Stifle, +1 rough tumble, +1 Pyroclasm, +3 Pyroblast)
First game I draw a terrible hand with 4-5 lands I think, but a Nimble Mongoose which is excellent vs. Snapcasters and Pyromancers. I try to bluff as much as possible by thinking
hard when he plays spells. I finally draw a brainstorm but it contains one land and two spells which isn't excellent. I shuffle away two lands and now two hold lands, stifle and
FoW. He seems to be flooding as well or maybe he is saving spells to make tokens with his Pyromancer. He plays Pyromancers and makes alot of tokens by cantripping away. Later in the
game I have two Mongoose and one Tamogoyf (4/5). He has five tokens, one unflipped delver and one Pyromancer, and one card in hand. I swing with both Mongooses (3/3) and pray he doesn't
have instant spell in his hand. He doesn't and trades my two creatures for five tokens and a delver. I believe this was a misstake. Now I have goyf and he has Pyromancer and one card in
hand, I presume a Force of will. He doesn't doesn't go off with cantrips and I manage to win.
The final game was a little bit shaky with him fetching basics and me playing around daze and saving my delver in hand to be able to FoW his Blood Moon.
In mid game I have two goyfs which he can't deal with and finally I'm victorious! Doing a perfect win losing no games in the whole tournament.
To summarize, the tournament felt very (almost too) easy. I'm not used to play cometitive magic and have little experience playing legacy vs. other decks than my friends Maverick.
However I have watched quite a lot of magic on twitch and watched Jacob Wilson on channelfireball.com playing RUG. I think I was quite lucky, objectively yes by winning the
rolls, but also in drawing good opening hands often with Delver. I qualified for another tournament by winning this, and I will report the results here. Stay tuned :)
Last edited by Bolkonsky; 09-22-2014 at 10:22 AM.
Congratulations on your result and thank you very much for the nice report!
Sure!Stay tuned :)
So while everyone here was in a fuss about howling mandrills, myself included, I decided to test out treasure cruise. The card is really really good, from my limited testing. The problem is I had to cut mongoose and I haven't really found another threat I liked. In its place i was playing young pyromancer but he has been fragile until I get to the late game where I can play him and make tokens same turn.
Delve 7 wasn't proving to be a big issue, as often times even if I shrunk goyf, I would draw into more threats. I'm not ready to say it's conclusive, but I definitely think it has potential to change the deck and would encourage people to try it out.
The deck I tested for reference
Dudes
4 delver
4 goyf
3 pyromancer
1 TNN (this was almost certainly wrong you already have way better things to do when you start drawing cards)
Spells
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 force
4 stifle
3 treasure cruise
4 lightning bolt
1 forked bolt
2 spell pierce
18 land
Honestly the deck could just morph into 'BURG' tempo and go with Deathrite Shaman instead of Mongoose. Shaman is literally the best 1-drop in Legacy at the moment, and doesn't really conflict much with your own Tom Cruises and can actually help fight against opposing Cruises.
If this Cruise thing catches up and makes the pure RUG obsolete in face of BURG (and its shaman), I'm going to sell my cards. I ain't gonna hunt down USeas and stuff coz I got just about enough of this all.
BURG only really needs 1-2 Useas. Mostly you cast DRS via Tropical.
Canadian,obsolete?
What do you think, guys?
Nice report!
I was the Shardless BUG player. I was actually shocked to hear that you hadn't that much experience with Legacy because i think that your play was very tight. It was too bad that I had to mull to 4 game 2 as i really looked forward to playing more. The matchup is so much fun! :)
Any changes you would make on your list in hindsight except the Pyroclasm?
Gratz on your victory! :)
I do like this idea, I am gonna run a couple probes and maybe a thoughtscour or two and run this list but with DRS instead of pyromancer and see how smoothly it runs. As a big proponent of mandrills (And still believe this card is good), I found it was never difficult to cast via delve so I can't imagine delving two more would be that much more difficult for an ancestrall recall. (obviously wouldn't put the two in the same deck) I do really hate having to monkey with the manabase by including two U.seas tho
Last edited by Emo; 09-23-2014 at 09:39 AM. Reason: typos
I specifically avoided probes actually. The reason for this is between 4 ponder 4 brainstorm and 3 treasure cruise, you will start cantripping into cantrips. I wanted a few more "real" cards in my deck.
The only time I had a hard time casting cruise was when I opened both in my hand other than that it wasn't ever hard to cast.
It won't. BURG while it has some advantages over RUG sacrifices consistent mana for some marginal late game advantage with DRS and Abrupt Decay. Anybody who knows how to play against BURG can easily take it down A) waste trop and B) kill DRS and BURG will crumble under the weight of it's own greedy mana base. Treasure Cruise does seem to have some potential, but I don't think it really fits in RUG with goose. I mean Goose is the whole reason why RUG is arguably the best tempo deck in legacy. It has a threat that dodges 99% of the removal in the meta (except sweepers and Lili) and if it does everything else that a tempo deck should goose can carry you the game.
Treasure Cruise does allow RUG to do something that it lacks: card advantage. Everyone who has played RUG knows that your opening 7 has to carry you the game and if you mull below 6 the game is probably lost before it begins. Cruise is cheap efficient card advantage which fits RUG's MO or at least the first two parts. It doesn't play nice with goose at all which is a problem. I want it to fit in the deck, but cutting goose for another threat just seems so bad.
Maybe if you play it as like a 2 of or something and do it post combat if goose is in play. It's only -6 to threshold and drawing 3 cards can definitely help to fill our graveyard between that turn and the next. I might do some brewing to see if it can work.
Yes, this seems right.
I guess I'll keep the cards no matter what, I play the game for 18 years and it's not like I'm going to stop anytime soon. At worst I may simply lay it on the shelf to gather dust and troll the lgs once per year.
I always thought that RUG might try some CA tools either main or sb. LftL comes to mind, but it's kinde narrow, although it works pretty well with at least Wasteland. I always wanted to try Ancestral Visions for the matchups where I sb out Forces, like any discard decks or any fair decks (or the combination of both be it Jund/k or whatever). One other card that thrills me is that "draw three if gy has 20 cards", but frankly, this seems like an utter nonsense, as 1) DRS is everywhere and 2) by turn10 game should be decided and no draw3 might save us.
I guess that Treasure Cruise might be fine as a one- or two-of, becasue it won't clog our hand, it will bring some more gas to fuel the gy and in the mus where we need mongoose, it's about correct play. I mean, a mere 1/1 is nothing to fear about, but as long as the creature lives, it will continue to be a nuisance until Lili/Terminus hits it and with our full hand we should be able to answer the kill and to refuel the gy asap, maybe even on the next turn. Coz drawing three (plus the fourth one in the next turn's draw phase) with some ammount of fetches and cantrips should be enough to turn the NM back to 3/3 very very soon. Enter LftL...
Canadian,obsolete?
What do you think, guys?
Whooooaaaaaa, whoa whoa whoa, whoa. No. Not even a little bit.
Look, Treasure Cruise is a very playable Legacy card, as is Dig through Time. But neither of them are particularly attractive to any deck running Goyf/DRS/Goose. Sure, BURG and BUG Delver might use it as a 1-2 of (at most), but it doesn't fit in RUG Delver unless you cut Geese and don't look back. But similar to Hooting Mandrills, I see no reason to do this.
RUG is still fine. Treasure Cruise might shake Legacy up a bit, but it is just another high-mana threat that can be Dazed, or Forced for actual value. Have you ever forced a Tombstalker? Feels pretty good. In Legacy, the GY matters to nearly all decks in some way, shape, or form. Those decks that don't care about it at all will be the only ones that can really abuse Treasure Cruise, and yet they will still be vulnerable to Daze/Spell Pierce/Force/Pyroblast.
Now, let's look at us. Do we want this effect? For U, a sorcery-speed Ancestral is certainly very very good. For 2U, it's still very good. For anything more than 3 mana, this card becomes a liability for us, and only become useful in long games. If it were an instant, it'd be a lot better.
However, exiling 7 cards is insanely bad for us. Even when we do hit Threshold (generally between turns 3-6), we have NO interest in losing it. Think of how bad you feel when RiP hits the board, or even just a timely Relic. We can't afford to lose our graveyard at all, let alone be forced to eat it to cast our "best" cantrip. Sure, we want to draw 3 cards (who doesn't), but not at the cost of making our other cards worse or nigh useless.
RUG is a velocity deck. We try to stay ahead of our opponent the entire game, and win before they can execute their plan. We are unfavored against just about every other deck in the format if we allow the game to go long. Often, we will win with less cards than them, but more board presence. We would gladly sacrifice power for speed. We don't play Jace, Ancestral Visions, Snapcaster, or any other silly cards that actual represent card advantage, we simply want card quality in the early game, and we want to extend the early game to forever. Treasure Cruise is a late-game card. Even if you could cast it consistently for 2-4 mana and it didn't hurt Goyf/Goose, it would still be a bit unfavored for us. When you draw 3 cards, but none of them answer that Batterskull or Griselbrand, what does it matter? If you could instant-speed the Cruise, it would be much better, since you could dig for Bolts, FoW + Blue card, or Daze + Pierce in response to your opponent's attempt to win. But at sorcery speed at the cost of 66% of your threats' power, this is not our card. And we don't need it either.
People will play these cards in Legacy, for sure. Perhaps even Black Delver/DRS lists. But we will still continue to function the same as always, with very little changes. This isn't TNN, and we survived that problem just fine (sort-of). This is simply "expensive Jace" at sorcery speed. There are so many must-answer threats out there already, that having to face Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time is just another humdrum daily job for us Delverers. Delver > Delve. Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland still hold these cards at bay.
No, RUG Delver is not dead. Feel free to get greedy and play 4 colors. But RUG will remain the most consistent Delver deck in the format in my opinion.
Copied the post to my "RUG Delver" folder.
Well written, good job.
Heyho RUG-Maniacs,
I'd like to share thoughts & opinions about the following decklist I brew together today, especially the best amount of any of the chosen 60MD without cutting / replacing any of them first, before i'll start the testing phase. Of course you may also leave comments on the SB-cards.
18 Lands:
8 Fetchlands
3 Volcs
3 Trops
4 Wasteland
11 Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
31 Spells:
4 FoW
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Spell Pierce
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
15 Sideboard-cards (configuration for an unknown metagame):
2 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Rough
1 Forked Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dismember
1 Ancient Grudge
My wish was to assemble the advantages of a burnheavy boltversion (like Kale Thompson ones: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8003&d=246070&f=LE) without the loss of stifle (which is an auto-include for any canadian threshold list imo and mostly for anyone of the RUG-community) and also without disclaiming probe (which is also huge for this type of deck). Dismissing Spell Snare is currently personal preference.
Overall I had to make some cuts for bringing all the amount of cards I love to play together and for the beginning I thought cutting 1 Tarmogoyf and 1 Ponder would be an OK decision. I also pondered about cutting 1 Daze / FoW for either of the chosen ones (in such case I'd park them in the SB).
3 Probes:
I'd like to have them regularly in my opening hands. Chances are higher with 3 in the list instead of the usual used number of 2. I also hoped the amount of 3 would some kind of balance the deficit of the missing 2 cards, in my case Goyf and Ponder.
3 Goyf / Chains / Pierce:
With 3 Goyf and thereby 11 Crits it's the ultimate threat-borderline for the deck, but i think it should work most of the time as sometimes lists with the same creature configuration show up at bigger tournaments and have success. SB-Cards like Clique/Vortex/Elemental surely act something like the 12-14th Creature postboard. True-Name Nemesis or the 4th Goyf also could be in the SB instead.
At least the 3 Chain Lightnings also could make the difference in beating the remaining damage in or constantly cleaning the way for my Creatures. Also to protect them efficiently and as an answer to any other noncreature-threat - in addition to Daze and FoW - I set the configuration of Spell Pierce to 3.
3 Stifle:
4 Stifle sometimes feels clunky in certain matchups. If my opening hands in G1 contain Delver or Mongoose they are my usual turn 1 drops - not holding mana up for Stifle. Also opponents try to play around Stifle in the early game stages if they are able to do so. At least I want 3 Stifle for drawing them in every game and with cantripping, this should work.
In the end I'm reasonable between 2-3 Probes, 2-3 Pierce for upping Stifle or Ponder to 4 if you think this would be better. Speaking of Chain Lightning I'd very like running 3-4 aside the 4 Lightning Bolts, won't go beneath that numbers.
kind regards, halo
Last edited by Isre Morn; 09-25-2014 at 05:57 PM.
@haloquero: very interesting list, and personally im a fan of playing 3's when im about to insert something i like to play.. i love ponders, and since u want multiple probes, i think that's the best way to diversify your cantrips..im also into the burn heavy config...but since they are a lot of burn showing lately here in my meta, chains are really bad...that's why i go for forked or tarfires. we also ran the same build SB, 2 submerges and 1 dismember (so we could still get a removal outside the green matchup) i ran 2 needles eversince i got that from BEDECKS, and been doin real great help for me...less ur vortex/sulfur. goodluck on your tests and keep us posted with the results.
Poxy14 ALTERED CARDS:
https://www.facebook.com/earlgrant.deleon
Commission Status: FULL!!! Commission Line to open: 2019
I aggree the 3x stifle idea. It's a good card, but not a great one. You often won't want to get 2 copies in the opening hand, as delver, bs, etc
Kamus
Legacy Decks: Grixis Delver, Canadian Threshold, Patriot, UR Delver, Team America, Shardless BUG, Junk, Miracles, Jeskai Stoneblade, Esper Stoneblade, Deathblade, Bant, Grixis Control, ANT, Reanimator, Sneak & Show, Infect, Food Chain
Modern Decks: Infect, UR Delver, Grixis Delver, Jeskai Geist, Jund, Abzan, Blue Moon, Grixis Control, Esper Control, RUG Control, BUG Control, Jeskai Nahiri
Yes, I really like haloquero's list. The only thing that concerns me are the thre CLs, as Burn is all over our lgs. One may consider either FBs or Magma Sprays (if there are lots of Nic Fit decks where you play), or maybe even F/I, but that's quite a liability due to the cmc, but for a blind meta, CL should be fine.
I'd stay away from mixes, they don't work fine for me. I'd rather consistently draw mediocre cards, than keep drawing uncertain ones that might be really bad in a particular matchup.
On sb: I really like Needle. There are some reasons against it (it's not a card to flip the bug, it offers fake safety - once they get rid of it, Liliana/Jace/Top/EE is alive again -, etc.), but the flexibility, low cmc and the fact that we may play it with any land, makes it into a really powerful card.
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