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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #841

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Would Rolling Earthquake be an option?

  2. #842
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    Would Rolling Earthquake be an option?
    That seems worse than Firespout, since it costs 3R for a similar effect, and you can't make it hit only flying or non-flying creatures. For 2 mana Pyroclasm seems better.

  3. #843

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    That seems worse than Firespout, since it costs 3R for a similar effect, and you can't make it hit only flying or non-flying creatures. For 2 mana Pyroclasm seems better.
    Yeah true, I guess in a low mana deck like this the X will never be more than 2-3 really.

  4. #844

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)


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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by SORO View Post
    Quite an overload of cmc3 cards in sb. But as two of them are against non-Waste decks, this might be appropriate. I still cannot swallow the absence of Spell Snare, but maybe it's just me. :)


    I'm curious to know what everyone else's experience with RUG against U/R Delver has been like. Swiftspear is just so aggressive (often bigger than Goyf in the early game), and Blood Moon or Price of Progress out of the board hurts. I'm considering replacing Flusterstorms with Hydroblasts to deal with these.
    Speaking of the new UR Delver builds, I'm speaking strictly of MWS experiences. But I'm still pretty hesitant to use BEB, as it's crappy card 90 % of time. All that it stops is Swiftspear (and accoasiaonla burn spell) while being useless in any other mu, I cannot imagine any reasonable scenario where it would be a good card to sb in. Flusterstorm has got its applications against Terminus, Stifle, discard and storm in general, so I'll take my change to avoid/outplay UR pilots while having some cards to bring in against the rest of field.
    Frankly, Swiftspear is more annoying than anything else, but if they got a constant stream of cantrips, it can get out of hand. IDK. BEB is sooo narrow, yet reliable in dealing with the monk, that I got no real opinion on it. for now I'll don't use it, but if those decks become more usual, IO may consider ading a copy or two.

    For me, the main trouble is this:
    - I want two slots against Elves and grave decks; I want two Cages. (and I'd love to squeeze Crypt in to supppress thresh, stop opposing LftL, etc.)
    - I want at least one (but rather two) Needle, becasue it stops otherwise deadly cards (Liliana) or the ones that help the opponent in tremendous way (Top, even DRS)
    - I want Pyroblasts, and yes, I rather want to stop TC than a mere 1/2 dude. Three are a must, imho, esp. as this is cantrip format.
    - I want Flusterstoms, becasue RUG plays no Countertop/Chalice/bears and Storm is not that easy mu.
    - Losing to Batterskull (or Chalice lock or WCE or Ensnaring Bridge) is not on my list of priorities. With the premiere equipment all over the place, Artifact Mutation is brilliant. The otehr slot might be anything else, I prefer Grudge due to in-built CA, but one may consider Revelry as it destroys Moon. Still, one slot is not enogh, imho.
    - So this leaves me with what, four slots? Rough/Tumble is a no-brainer (I just realized that once in a pale moon it may kill Tstalker, wow!), because elves, DnT and your-usual-deck-with-DRS-and-Bob are legitimate part of meta. And I guess we all know how good is RUG in fighting through opposing walls, be it KotR (not exactly everyday's choice) or... umm... Goyf; so yeah, two Submerges are that.
    That's some perfect fifteen, isn't that? :scratches head:

  6. #846
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Just to post here so you don't feel alone with your headache, Elves would love to:
    - Have a lot of combo hate in the board that ideally allows it to develop at the same time.
    - Can't play Teeg because you need NO for speed but Teeg kills that.
    - The more creatures you board out, the worse Glimpse becomes as a power spell and utility card.
    - Same hate doesn't necessarily apply for Storm and Show and Tell.
    - Need to beat Miracles. Again, Teeg would be good but lolnope. 2-4 Needle/Null Rods is ideal.
    - Graveyard hate, GY combo is bad. Cage would be good, but again, NO/GSZ engine rears it's ugly head.
    - Decay to answer hate cards/Delver
    - Utility cards/NO targets somewhere in the 75 to shore up fair matchups/S&T postboard.

    You have at most 2-3 flex slots for utility cards in the main, rest needs to be handled in the SB. There's just not enough room.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm considering a special slot for sb in case TC decks will be good. I may play it either alongside two Cages, or maybe instead of one.

    Phyrexian Furnace - good thing about this card is that they cannot choose which (worst) card they'd remove, it simply take the bottom one, done.
    Scrabbling Claws - what I like is that I may remove my own stuff in response to DRS activation - losing the targeted card, but yeah, I'd lose it anyway, but now I'm stopping the elf -, so this forces them to use they're own gy and further increasing pressure against that grave and decreasing usage of it.

    But honestly, those cards are pretty narrow, and there's trouble that they might not even matter in particular game/match, although this is somehow negated by the fact that they cantrip. However, this is kind of a "pitches to FoW" argument and that's moot point...

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by SORO View Post
    before i went to pilot UGinfect the past weeks, im running that certain list - 2 chains + 1tarfire +1forked
    im always glad seeing my all time favorite deck doin very good still!
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by SORO View Post
    I top 4'd a 41 man today with nearly the same 75.

    Maindeck changes: -1 spell pierce, +1 spell snare
    Sideboard changes: -1 sulfuric vortex, -1 pyroblast, +1 V clique, +1 spell snare.

    Deck was good all day, games I lost didn't involve cruise, just really hot draws.
    Matt Bevenour in real life

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Matt, what's the reason for Snare in sb? Against Goyf decks you take Submerge, and except for Jund with its overload of cmc2 cards (Hymn, Bob, Ooze, Library, PFire) and maybe Miracles (CB and CS), I don't see much need for it.
    I mean... I play two Snares, so it may seem silly to argue against it, but I maindeck them, so that's the difference. And I even very often side them out for more live cards.
    But yeah, maybe your approach is right. After all, there are mus where you may use Snare only against Goyf and nothing else, and you even take Snares out for Submerges in g2+g3. So it's not like the card is crucial, while it may help in those mus where the spells are more usual - like the above examples -, so you simply sb them in when you need to stop that Chalice, CBalance, IT, Goyf, Hymn or whatever else...
    Oh, congrats on your result! Btw, what have you won? Anything spicy?

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Matt, what's the reason for Snare in sb? Against Goyf decks you take Submerge, and except for Jund with its overload of cmc2 cards (Hymn, Bob, Ooze, Library, PFire) and maybe Miracles (CB and CS), I don't see much need for it.
    I mean... I play two Snares, so it may seem silly to argue against it, but I maindeck them, so that's the difference. And I even very often side them out for more live cards.
    But yeah, maybe your approach is right. After all, there are mus where you may use Snare only against Goyf and nothing else, and you even take Snares out for Submerges in g2+g3. So it's not like the card is crucial, while it may help in those mus where the spells are more usual - like the above examples -, so you simply sb them in when you need to stop that Chalice, CBalance, IT, Goyf, Hymn or whatever else...
    Oh, congrats on your result! Btw, what have you won? Anything spicy?
    Snare was straight over-performing in testing. I tested a lot against UWR delver where the submerge is useless but snare freed up my bolts to hit delvers instead and it was impossible to play around. Obvious targets are goyf, counterbalance, stoneforge mystic, rest in peace (sometimes back breaking), snapcaster, young pyromancer (This fucker stalls all the ground troups while delver dies really fast), scavenging ooze, and daze (/sarcasm). I didn't find it stranded in my hand and was only unhappy with it once after I drew it following a goyf resolution. If anything, I think it really compliments the submerge opposing goyf plan. You time walk them and then get to tempo them and it feels GREAT. I've been playing with the card since Dreadstill though so it's really to taste.

    Additionally it was a meta decision. Some of the best players in the area show up with Miracles regardless of how well the deck is positioned. In this event they cannibalized themselves early and I happened to dodge miracles somehow and instead played against 2 rounds of delver, painter, esper stoneblade with lingering souls, and blue maverick. Snare was fine against what I expected and useful against what I actually faced.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So this just took 4th place at the SCG today:
    4 Delver
    3 Tarmogoyf
    3 Young Pyromancer
    1 Sylvan Library
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Spell Pierce
    3 Stifle
    2 Forked Bolt
    4 Ponder
    3 Treasure Cruise

    Sideboard:
    3 Flusterstorm
    3 Krosan Grip
    2 Pyroblast
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Jitte
    1 VClique

    I don't know how I feel about the sideboard. nor young pyromancer but the YP has been hot lately. I also wonder why 3 krosan Grip's and 6 blasts! I can't see this deck not maindecking spellsnare or Git Probe with YP maindecked. I have to give it some testing before I'm sold on it. Also would like to see Joan Anton Mateo do a tournament report on it.

  13. #853

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by SORO View Post
    Well, that would be me.
    I also top4:ed the previous Danish Legacy Masters just half a year ago with the exact same MD:
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13661&iddeck=100355

    I went 6-1 in the swiss and lost to D&T in top8. I played against a total of 3 decks with treasure cruise. I let it resolve every time. If it does not kill me or my Nimble Mongoose, I rarely bother.

    If I was to express my feelings regarding the current trends in RUG in general and the last couple of pages of this thread in particular, I would say I am not that impressed. I don't need a lot of cards to win, I need the right cards at the right time. And honestly, the right card is pretty much Nimble Mongoose, every time. Therefore, I am reluctant to make changes to a deck I've been playing with success for 6+ years if it includes removing Mongoose, adding 2-drops and nerfing my own sweepers. It would change my playstyle and entire gameplan in almost every matchup, and being old and tired, I'm just not that interested ;)

    With that said, I confess that cruise is a fantastic card that generates new gameplans on its own. Just not for this deck.
    Last edited by Grizzly_Bear; 10-20-2014 at 08:42 AM.

  14. #854

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear View Post
    Well, that would be me.
    I also top4:ed the previous Danish Legacy Masters just half a year ago with the exact same MD:
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13661&iddeck=100355

    I went 6-1 in the swiss and lost to D&T in top8. I played against a total of 3 decks with treasure cruise. I let it resolve every time. If it does not kill me or my Nimble Mongoose, I rarely bother.

    If I was to express my feelings regarding the current trends in RUG in general and the last couple of pages of this thread in particular, I would say I am not that impressed. I don't need a lot of cards to win, I need the right cards at the right time. And honestly, the right card is pretty much Nimble Mongoose, every time. Therefore, I am reluctant to make changes to a deck I've been playing with success for 6+ years if it includes removing Mongoose, adding 2-drops and nerfing my own sweepers. It would change my playstyle and entire gameplan in almost every matchup, and being old and tired, I'm just not that interested ;)

    With that said, I confess that cruise is a fantastic card that generates new gameplans on its own. Just not for this deck.
    Congratulations for your great results (We would thank a report).

    Last week I´ve been playing against Delver-Treasure decks and my Canadian worked as well as always. Treasure is not a problem neither a solution for us (knowing that Joan Anton Mateo did a great tournament in Worcester with the "RUG-Treasure"). I will definitely continue with my mongoose.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So @ SCG Worcester, I ran the 3 Stifle, 3 Spell Pierce, 2 Forked Bolt and 2 Gitaxian Probe list, and this is the sideboard I figured out:

    3 Pyroblast
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Submerge
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Destructive Revelry
    2 Rough/Tumble
    2 Grafdigger's Cage

    I got to 5-1 but I lost the last two rounds and finished a middling 38th. However, I was able to beat U/R Delver all three times I was paired against it. If you are able to answer their creatures, their deck is mostly cantrips and a few burn spells, they mostly spin their wheels and are unable to do anything about our large green creatures. Hydroblast definitely made it easy, but probably isn't necessary. So beating U/R Delver isn't too big a deal, it's the other decks in the meta like Reanimator and BUG Delver (which are what I lost to in the final 2 rounds) that I need to have a better strategy against.

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear View Post
    I played against a total of 3 decks with treasure cruise. I let it resolve every time. If it does not kill me or my Nimble Mongoose, I rarely bother.

    If I was to express my feelings regarding the current trends in RUG in general and the last couple of pages of this thread in particular, I would say I am not that impressed. I don't need a lot of cards to win, I need the right cards at the right time. And honestly, the right card is pretty much Nimble Mongoose, every time. Therefore, I am reluctant to make changes to a deck I've been playing with success for 6+ years if it includes removing Mongoose, adding 2-drops and nerfing my own sweepers. It would change my playstyle and entire gameplan in almost every matchup, and being old and tired, I'm just not that interested ;)

    With that said, I confess that cruise is a fantastic card that generates new gameplans on its own. Just not for this deck.
    Nimble Mongoose is the reason to play this deck. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    Thanks for the list and insight!
    Matt Bevenour in real life

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear View Post
    Well, that would be me.
    I also top4:ed the previous Danish Legacy Masters just half a year ago with the exact same MD:
    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13661&iddeck=100355

    I went 6-1 in the swiss and lost to D&T in top8. I played against a total of 3 decks with treasure cruise. I let it resolve every time. If it does not kill me or my Nimble Mongoose, I rarely bother.

    If I was to express my feelings regarding the current trends in RUG in general and the last couple of pages of this thread in particular, I would say I am not that impressed. I don't need a lot of cards to win, I need the right cards at the right time. And honestly, the right card is pretty much Nimble Mongoose, every time. Therefore, I am reluctant to make changes to a deck I've been playing with success for 6+ years if it includes removing Mongoose, adding 2-drops and nerfing my own sweepers. It would change my playstyle and entire gameplan in almost every matchup, and being old and tired, I'm just not that interested ;)

    With that said, I confess that cruise is a fantastic card that generates new gameplans on its own. Just not for this deck.
    Congratulation on our results. And I share your sentiment on NM and RUG in general!

  18. #858
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    for those who are testing HOOTING MANDRILS...

    what do u guys think of instead of using PIERCES main, we replace it with STUBBORN DENIAL..
    its a weaker pierce early on, but when we do stick mandrils or make any of our goyfs a 4 toughness...
    then we dont need to worry bout em stps and submerges for our ape...
    we are also equipped with a hard counter vs sol lands, manadorks, rituals, cradles...that dodges pierces.
    im planning to use tarfires too to support our goyfs even when delving... when i test this out, i'll give u guys an update.
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  19. #859

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    If you want late game counterspells, why not just run counterspells. They have a shot at not being dead early.

    I think you are going to end up with a lot more force spikes than counterspells.

  20. #860

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've been running a list with 04 H. Mandrils instead of mongoose, and playing 3 tarfire and 3 stuborn denial in cocktrice, and the deck hasnt lost a game yet. So far so good.

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