[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[sea]

5 1/1's > 1 4/5. Especially, when that 4/5 doesn't have trample.

I dont necessarily agree with that. Even if I were to take that as a given, however, I dont think pyromancer lives to generate 5 1/1s very often in games that you werent going to win without him.

I think if I wanted to play pyromancer, Id just play ur delver as that list is way more synergistic with him.

[B88]

i could agree with you for one reason....Rough/tumble! is the best card in this meta...is perfect against elves and ur, also against team america. i would try playing 4goyfs and see how is going to work!

[BlueP.]

Hello guys,

Recently made Top 8 in local 50+ tournament with Canadian Threshold, expecting a lot of UR Delver and other Treasure Cruise decks. I decided to play Thresh after testing UR Delver for the event simply because of the raw power of Nimble Mongoose (I hate RUG delver with Young Pyro, I thing UR is so much more synergistic with the card that I don't see the point playing it in RUG, but that's just my opinion). I completely revised my traditional build using the CDF Legacy winner list, because I liked where it was going; here is the list played by Romain Chabaud :

- 2 Dismember
- 3 Spell Snare
- 3 Spell Pierce
- 4 Brainstorm
- 4 Daze
- 4 Force of Will
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 2 Forked Bolt
- 2 Green Sun's Zenith
- 4 Ponder

- 1 Scavenging Ooze
- 1 Tarmogoyf
- 4 Delver of Secrets
- 4 Nimble Mongoose

- 8 Blue Fetchs
- 3 Tropical Island (original list played 1 Taiga, didn't like it at all and add the third Trop)
- 3 Volcanic Island
- 4 Wasteland

Side :
- 3 Submerge
- 2/2 Pyro -REblast (cut the 1 Loam from the original list for a fourth REB, it was nuts)
- 1 Flusterstorm
- 2 Rough // Tumble ( I think it is currently mandatory)
- 2 Destructive Revelry
- 2 Surgical Extraction
- 1 Grafdigger's Cage (instead of the second Flusterstorm, I wasn't expecting a lot of combo decks and I'm not impressed by it in the Delver MUs)

I played the following MU : Death and Taxes (2-1), BUG with Pernicious Deed and TC (l; 1-2), Jeskai Ascendancy Combo (Test deck by a serious player, but too fragile 2-0), UR Delver (2-1), Bant Countertop (with TC, 2-0). Lost in quarters against UR Landstill with Dig Through Times (amazing deck in the current meta, couldn't beat 4 relic of progenitus and EExplosives without Stifles... 1-2). I admit it's a weird meta, but all decks featured Treasure Cruise except DnT of course.

I was overall very happy with the 2 GSZ and the split 1 goyf/ 1 ooze. I had the feeling that Goyf had lost some of its relevance, cutting down to one didn't bother me at all. Cutting the stifles was a heartbreaker as it is one of my favorite cards and the reason I decided to play Canadian to begin with, my two losses are in fact partly due to their absence. However, having access to three Spell snare and two Dismember helped me multiple times. I hate spell snare in this deck, but answering Counterbalance, SFM and Young Pyro for U multiple times... enough said. First time I wasn't overwhelmed by the card and one of the reason I chose to play this list.

Now, the main purpose of sharing my thoughts : Nimble Mongoose was just excellent. Excellent. I almost always tutor it up with GSZ. UR Delver can't beat the card if you are able to play around Swifstpear shenanigans. When the Bant Countertop player revealed his hand full of useless removals after his loss I remembered how sweet was this feeling : Mongoose doesn't draw cards, sure. She ignores them. Many people told me the creature was now obsolete, even without testing it at all : a common prejudice I would say... I won all my matches on the back of Nimble Mongoose. I know Bob Huang just shared an article where he basically says "play Cruise, not mongoose" (http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...game-analysis/) and he is probably right. I must insist though, the card ignores everything except GY Hate and Thresh gameplan is designed to compensate the lack of evasion.

All in all, I'll still be playing Nimble Mongoose for a while. I had the feeling that if it was not for her, Tarmogoyf is not enough of an incentive to add G to our manabase.

* (I apologise for the english mistakes, I'm not accustomed to write in this language)

[B88]

i think that Bob Huang miss one thing, he said: "All in all, I’m not convinced that Lightning Bolt is better than Abrupt Decay" the reason for play red in not only for bolt but for Reb imho! he has afraid of cruise, so, what is the best counter for it?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

...Rough makes the elves matchup a breeze, and was pretty decent against the aforementioned ur delver...

Congrats on result!
Anyone realized that Elves sideboard-in Absolute Law? Pretty annoying card, I wonder if there's a time to play Rushing River once again, as the amount of insurmountable cards (Tombstalker, CB, wutnot) is a bit too high for my liking.

Hello guys,

Recently made Top 8 in local 50+ tournament with Canadian Threshold...

All in all, I'll still be playing Nimble Mongoose for a while. I had the feeling that if it was not for her, Tarmogoyf is not enough of an incentive to add G to our manabase.

* (I apologise for the english mistakes, I'm not accustomed to write in this language)

Much thanks for the report, it was much appreciated! And I agree with your thoughts, although I'm far too conservative to try this list by myself. I don't really like the non-Stifle builds.

[SORO]

Congrats on result!
Anyone realized that Elves sideboard-in Absolute Law? Pretty annoying card, I wonder if there's a time to play Rushing River once again, as the amount of insurmountable cards (Tombstalker, CB, wutnot) is a bit too high for my liking.



Much thanks for the report, it was much appreciated! And I agree with your thoughts, although I'm far too conservative to try this list by myself. I don't really like the non-Stifle builds.

I´ve always played Stifle decks, because like its versatility anda power. The increase of Treasure Cruise may cause the increase of fech-decks, and it would be so good for us. But maybe the Treasure gets our Stifles less effective because that player would draw lands easier. Peter Trago´s list could be great in the actual metagame (althought I would change it a little bit, cutting TNN): http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13625&iddeck=100087

Tragos(RUG) vs. Sturtz(BUG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuA4suXZaQE

What do you think? I also know that Daze would be worse.

[wbw]

I think it is up to personal preference, as all stifle/stifle-less discussion has been in all those years.
However, if one does cut all the Stifles, I believe he should add an extra land, since he will be more soft to wasteland.

My personal preference is to go with the stifle build, I like to use 4, but 3 should be ok too. Stifle feels like a modal card with lots of modes, some are weak, but some are insane! Besides, it is still good against most of the metagame.

[poxy14]

tested mandrils built 14man 3rd place 3-1

crits 4 delvers/4mandrils/4goyfs/1tnn = added another creature as im missing shroud

actual tourney
0-2 vs reanimator, carries a heavy counter built but didnt show both games to protect me
2-1 vs reanimator, side out goyfs and i was able to land a fast beating threat via ape while not tapping out
2-1 bug shardless, otp i won easily via old stifle/waste combo...adecay was no use vs ape and i had control over goyfs via delve..so i can always bolt them making sure the apes are the bigger threats here, game 3 my opp left coz of an emergency, free win!
2-1 urcruise, land a muscle, counter swiftspear coz this will be their biggest threat vs us, yp and delvers are always burn range..again, ape was wiped away g2 and that sucks! but he has no issues with yp tokens unlike goose and goyf...

before the tourney...no sbs
3-1 vs mud, i always have fows in my opening, ape has no issues with chalices and goyf too as it was set to usually cotv1
3-1 miracles....i hated it when mandrils got stped, multiples sucks when jammed..but provides a faster clock..the W’s matter coz of the stifles, not because of the mandrils.
4-2 vs rug stock, mandrils are problems vs goose, pyroblast protects this vs submerges postboard, goyfs weight are controllable..tnn is a house too vs this when resolved.

adjustments:
-1 mandrils + 1 tnn/cliq/scooze...or just a spell...4 will be too clunky vs exile/destroy/bounce effects..and u dont want that
-1 stubborn denial + 1 pierce....ive connected with sd vs cruise with an ape on board, cute but conditional...pierce is simpler and will not have much of an issue early game vs sol lands, petals..

over-all mandrils is great vs unfair matchups that dont have removals, it’s faster than goose.. wasnt able to test this yet vs uwr that carries tons of removals. assessing problems of goose, goyf and ape are overall the same..RIP devastates em, though ape will still be a 4/4 once resolved but will be slower..if ur cruise will be the meat,i’ll play this list as it crushes tiny crits with removals that just relies on burn..will test this further...

[cartothemax]

Hello,

Played in a 5 round local tourny yesterday finishing 4-1. Mess around with the 6 flex spots a little bit and was pleasantly surprised. Otherwise it was the old tried and true version of RUG.


Creatures (12)

x4 Tarmogoyf
x4 Nimble Mongoose
x4 Delver of Secrets

Spells (30)

x4 Brainstorm
x4 Ponder
x4 Daze
x4 Force of Will
x4 Stifle
x1 Spell Snare
x3 Spell Pierce
x4 Lightning Bolt
x2 Tarfire

Lands (18)

x2 Polluted Delta
x2 Flooded Strand
x4 Wooded Foothills
x4 Wasteland
x3 Volcanic Island
x3 Tropical Island

Sideboard (15)

x3 Submerge
x1 Vendilion Clique
x1 Sylvan Library
x2 Red Elemental Blast
x2 Rough // Tumble
x2 Grafdigger's Cage
x1 Krosan Grip
x1 Ancient Grudge
x1 Destructive Revelry
x1 Null Rod


1-0 (2-1 games)
Round 1 is against Painter Servant with a splash of white. The guy that I am playing is good with the deck as well. Game one he lands an Ensaring Bridge after exhausting all of the counter magic and eventually gets Grindstone and Painter's Servant assembled. G2 he had Servant and Grindstone in play w/o enough mana to activate Grindstone when I landed the Null Rod G3 also revolved around a sticking a Null Rod, which, just hosed him entirely. Highlights included using Clique to get rid of a Manic Vandal fetched with Imperial Recruiter and using my one off Spell Snare to get a Servant.
SB: -4 Daze, -3 Stifle || +1 Null Rod, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Vendilion Clique, +2 Red Elemental Blast

2-0 (4-1 games)
Round 2 is against Opps all spells and I have counter magic to stop them easily. These rounds feel like byes honestly.
SB: -2 Tarfire, -1 Lightning Bolt || +2 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Vendilion Clique

3-0 (6-2 games)
Round 3 is against Jund Nic Fit. A nightmare matchup I feel. G1 Veteran Explorer does its thing and he plays around Wasteland, Daze, and Spell Pierce religiously. G2 I have a big blowout where I blocked Ruric Thar, the Unbowed with two unthreshed Mongeese after I Tarfire the DRS and Stifle it's ability to get up to threshold. Rode my one Goose left to victory. G3 I I get multiples of Delvers to take him down eventually overwhelming them with too much power on board. Very lucky to come away with a victory here I think.
SB: -4 Daze, -1 Spell Pierce || +2 Rough // Tumble, +3 Submerge

Sidenote here -> Mongoose was very, very good for me this game. Abrupt Decay and Punishing Fire rotted in his hand as I beat him down. He was cursing the Geese by the end of the round.

3-1 (6-4)
Round 4 was against Dredge and I just wiped across the floor. Abysmal games. Both games he was able to assemble 6+ zombie tokens with a Griselbrand and Flamekin Zealot. I should have used mulligans more aggressively for Grafdigger's Cage and will be removing Sylvan Library for additional graveyard hate (either Surgical Extraction or Tormod's Crypt).
SB: -4 Daze || +2 Rough//Tumble, +2 Grafdigger's Cage

4-1 (8-4)
Round 5 was against U/R Delver Cruise. I was a little nervous for this matchup since I had never played this variant before. Not to mention that removing Monastery Swiftspear or Young Pyromancer felt like an uphill battle since they benefited every time we had a counter war. This ended up not really mattering though. G1 and G2 were grind fests none the less. Nimble Mongoose and Tarmogoyf managed to stone wall him both times and again shroud on Goose played a big part in my winning. G2 he had a Relic of Progenitus active for a good portion of the game shrinking both my Geese and Goyf. Eventually I stuck double Delver and ended the game quickly.

This was good enough for top 4 and we choose to split the prize pool. Each getting 47.50 in store credit. Got myself a Glimpse of Nature!

Spell Snare was better then expected tagging at times Servant, Punishing Fire, GSZ=2, Young Pyromancer, and even a Sudden Shock. This was my first time with triple Spell Pierce. I liked it since it opened up space in the SB (no Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce) and it was helpful in my matchups). Tarfire was ok. The boost to Tarmogoyf was of little consequence, but having the instant speed one mana burn was the best part of Tarfire. I might go back to Forked Bolt in that spot, but might experiment more with some other crazy cards like Weight of Spires, Burst Lightning, or Dead // Gone. Otherwise the planned changes I have are for the SB -1 Sylvan Library -> +1 Tormod's Crypt and -1 Krosan Grip -> +1 Pyroblast or Hydroblast not sure which yet....

Cheers

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Guys, thanks a lot for the reports, and I'm glad that both unconventional "Canadian Mandrills" and the very conservative "60+15 RUG, kthxbye" are still powerful choices.

And now for something completely different:
Brett plays Sudden Shock.
Keisha responds with Spell Snare targeting Sudden Shock.
What's strange in the above scenario?

[wcm8]

Honestly with how the metagame has been shaping up, I'd consider running 1-2 Rough//Tumble in the **maindeck**, with more in the sideboard. A 2-mana Wrath of God that is typically one-sided is going to win you lots of games in this format... Forked Bolt is also good.

3 Treasure Cruise would still be fine, regardless if you're running Nimble Mongoose or not. Just cast it post-combat and you'll refill the graveyard in no time.

I've been thinking a 3/3 split of Daze/Spell Snare would help you deal with being on the play and also on the draw. Cut the weaker card(s) appropriately in post-SB games.

Then in the sideboard you'd also want to run some number of cards that beat up on Miracles. Sulfuric Vortex, Null Rod, Pithing Needles, Pyroblast, etc. You'd probably also cut some Submerge, and then play alternative cards to win the Goyf war: Dismember, Threads of Disloyalty, Vedalken Shackles, Mind Harness, etc.

Hidden Gibbons is particularly good in this meta as well. If you play 3-4 of these you'd probably consistently beat the UR matchup.

Maybe 1 copy of Carpet of Flowers to win against Stifle/Wasteland blue decks. Just pretty good in general.

RUG is far from being a dead archetype, it just needs to adapt a bit to beat the new Metagame.

[rlesko]

Honestly with how the metagame has been shaping up, I'd consider running 1-2 Rough//Tumble in the **maindeck**, with more in the sideboard. A 2-mana Wrath of God that is typically one-sided is going to win you lots of games in this format... Forked Bolt is also good.

3 Treasure Cruise would still be fine, regardless if you're running Nimble Mongoose or not. Just cast it post-combat and you'll refill the graveyard in no time.

I've been thinking a 3/3 split of Daze/Spell Snare would help you deal with being on the play and also on the draw. Cut the weaker card(s) appropriately in post-SB games.

Then in the sideboard you'd also want to run some number of cards that beat up on Miracles. Sulfuric Vortex, Null Rod, Pithing Needles, Pyroblast, etc. You'd probably also cut some Submerge, and then play alternative cards to win the Goyf war: Dismember, Threads of Disloyalty, Vedalken Shackles, Mind Harness, etc.

Hidden Gibbons is particularly good in this meta as well. If you play 3-4 of these you'd probably consistently beat the UR matchup.

Maybe 1 copy of Carpet of Flowers to win against Stifle/Wasteland blue decks. Just pretty good in general.

RUG is far from being a dead archetype, it just needs to adapt a bit to beat the new Metagame.

just snap bought 4 foil hidden gibbons, lol. mongoose could be dead because we may be forced to adapt and play TC ourselves. ive not been innovating lately because with GP NJ coming up, ive become a conformist and just playing UR delver.

[cartothemax]

Guys, thanks a lot for the reports, and I'm glad that both unconventional "Canadian Mandrills" and the very conservative "60+15 RUG, kthxbye" are still powerful choices.

And now for something completely different:
Brett plays Sudden Shock.
Keisha responds with Spell Snare targeting Sudden Shock.
What's strange in the above scenario?

Hmmmm, I don't think I was remembering that correctly. Pretty sure I didn't Snare a Sudden Shock.

More likely I thought about it, but thought better after thinking about it a little more. My mistake.

Hidden Gibbons does seem pretty interesting though. Two Rough // Tumble main might be the way to go as well.

This past weekend I had to reload my graveyard in two scenarios fairly easily.

[B88]

hi everyone.
i've just finished a local tournament, we were 45 players.
that was my list:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
3 Daze
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Sylvan Library
4 Force of Will
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

Sideboard

2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
2 Spell Pierce
2 Rough//Tumble
3 Submerge


so i won the tournament. i made undefeated in swiss.
i found:
cloudpost 2-1
miracle 2-0
omnitell 2-1
deathblade 2-0
ID
ID

also in quarter final i won again against Cloundpost (another guy), than we've splitted the top 4.
the deks works very well!!!! i'm really happy about this list!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm playing this version now:

2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dead/Gone
1 Chain Lightning

The idea is an added flexibility.
Pierce stops so many important spells.
Snare stops Goyf while not being dead against RiP, CB, etc.
FB to 2-for-1 trades or to kill DRS
Dead/Gone against DRS, Thalia, MoR and then against Goyf, Tombstalker, KotR or Steel Hellkite.
Chain Lightning against any creature that passes the FB test (e.g. Serra Avenger) or simply to headshot people.

Btw, Rough main is a reasonable choice. I remember it being used dozens and dozens of pages back in time. I also played it once, but I met no Elves and DnT wasn't really played, so I returned it back to sb.
I think ppl should give the D/D a try. It's super good as a creature removal, although it cannot be targted to dome...

[SORO]

just snap bought 4 foil hidden gibbons, lol. mongoose could be dead because we may be forced to adapt and play TC ourselves. ive not been innovating lately because with GP NJ coming up, ive become a conformist and just playing UR delver.

Sure, Traditional RUG is already dead. We must do a lot of changes. http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15146&iddeck=112387

Congratulations cartothemax and B88!

[rlesko]

Sure, Traditional RUG is already dead. We must do a lot of changes. http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15146&iddeck=112387

Congratulations cartothemax and B88!

Yes, there was the conditional clause "could be". Classic RUG always has the chance to win, as sometimes stifle + waste + daze can win any match. Doesn't mean that RUG didn't take a big hit with printing of a card like treasure cruise, as its too much CA to overcome in a tempo deck.

[Demonic_Attorney]

I concur with the majority of this [recent] thread, Hidden Gibbons is prudent tech right now and in the present legacy metagame, it deserves some serious consideration for some sideboard slots.

[datanaga]

Two oldschool Canadian Threshold lists in top 8 at Eternal Festival Tokyo (330 players)
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8439&d=248456&f=LE

[Xerlic]

Hey guys. I'm a casual legacy player that has played RUG Delver for the past few years. I've never played in anything outside of really small locals, and GP Jersey will be my first big event. It's too close to miss and that playmat is really sweet.

Since I've never played some T1 lists, I'm mainly looking for matchup/sideboard advice.

My mainboard is the stock 54, +2 Forked Bolt, +2 Fire//Ice, +1 Spell Snare, +1 Spell Pierce. The Forked Bolts and Fire//Ices are a concession to UR Delver as well as having a better G1 against Elves and Death and Taxes.

Sideboard is as follows:

2 Pyroblast (Blue decks)
1 Red Elemental Blast (Blue decks)
2 Submerge (Mirror, Goyf Decks, Maverick)
2 Rough//Tumble (Death and Taxes, Elves, UR Delver)
2 Pithing Needle (Miracles, Deathrite Shaman Decks?)
1 Krosan Grip (Miracles, Stoneforge Decks)
1 Ancient Grudge (Stoneforge Decks)
1 Surgical Extraction (Dredge)
1 Grafdigger's Cage (Dredge, Elves?)
1 Vendilion Clique (Stoneforge Decks)
1 Sulfuric Vortex (Miracles)

I cut the 1 Submerge since I'm assuming that there won't be as many Goyf decks at the GP.

Does Pithing Needle come in against BUG Delver if it only hits Deathrite? I'm assuming it's a yes if it's shardless BUG since that deck runs Planeswalkers.

I know Vendilion Clique works well against a Stoneforge activation, but where else do you bring it in?

I'm also thinking about trying to bring a Zuran Orb into the SB since I'm imagine there will be a good number of burn players, but just about everyone I mention this to says it's a bad idea haha.

Hidden Gibbons seems like sweet tech, but in the matches where you would bring it in, doesn't Goyf do pretty much the same thing?

Thanks in advance.