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Thread: Noble Fish

  1. #41

    Re: Noble Fish

    4 Mothers

  2. #42
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    Like Edric Maverick? I'm at 3 TNN and 3 Looters right now, it's been fun testing and learning the ins and outs of the deck.

  3. #43

    Re: Noble Fish

    I played a 3 matches each against Imperial Painter and Jund last night. In both cases I really felt the lack of basic plains (blood moon and wasteland). The mana here is easily attacked. Something to keep in mind when tweaking and playing.

  4. #44
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    I've definitely wanted a basic Plains in here somewhere.

  5. #45

    Re: Noble Fish

    I also really like the suggestion from one of the previous posters to add two Meddling Mage to the board. I haven't played enough with it to know exactly what board changes I want but this is the first thing I am looking at.

    If you are going deep, or playing tons of Jund and BUG, this is probably one of the few decks that can legitimately use divert. I am anxious to hear peoples' post-board game results and thoughts.
    Last edited by limbo; 04-10-2014 at 11:20 AM. Reason: card tag

  6. #46
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    So my board is currently:

    3 RiP
    2 Meddling Mage
    2 Envelop
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Path to Exile
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Disenchant

    Keeping the same 20 land scheme, and switched the Moms out for another Looter and another TNN. Not sure what to cut for a Plains.

    EDIT: I think we should call this deck Bahra Bant, doesn't it have a nice ring to it?
    Last edited by HSCK; 04-10-2014 at 10:38 PM.

  7. #47

    Re: Noble Fish

    Since fitting all three basics into this deck is very hard on the mana, or requires cutting spells, is there a solid reason not to go with the more standard BUG delver style manabase like : 9 fetch, 3 tundra, 2 trop, 2 savannah, 4 waste and just accept that bloodmoon and wasteland are problems?

  8. #48
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    I'd rather just fit the Plains in honestly.

  9. #49

    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by HSCK View Post
    I'd rather just fit the Plains in honestly.
    I ran this yesterday in a little local tournament.
    Lands (20):
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Misty Rainforest
    4x Wasteland
    3x Tundra
    3x Tropical Island
    1x Savannah
    1x Windswept Heath

    Creatures (21):
    4x Judge's Familiar
    4x Noble Hierarch
    4x Stoneforge Mystic
    3x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
    2x Looter il-Kor
    2x True-Name Nemesis
    2x Mother of Runes

    Non-creature spells (19):
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Force of Will
    4x Daze
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Batterskull

    Sideboard:
    3x Envelop
    2x Spell Pierce
    2x Enlightened Tutor
    2x Rest in Peace
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Manriki-Gusari
    1x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Meddling Mage


    I opted for more consistent mana, and accepted that blood moon and wasteland are good cards. I liked it a lot. I didn't miss the basics. This deck is great fun. I out card advantaged Goblins, which is hard to do, and dismantled UG infect. I finished second on breakers (M:3-1). loss was to BUG Delver (G:1-2) in round 2 with two bad mulligans. I liked the Meddling mages a lot, they were bodies with potent upside which flows well with what the deck does well. I am going to swap 2 envelop for 2 flusterstorm and I think the third will become something else as well (probably Krosan grip, pridemage, or the needle originally in the list) but not changing it until I run some more games. If anyone else tests different configurations, please post results and thoughts. I like this and will definitely be keeping it in the stable of decks to play for a while.

    Edit:
    Additional Card to consider: How do people feel about unexpectedly absent? Seems to fit the plan well and deals with problem permanents.

  10. #50
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    I just tested a few quick sets with Jund and RUG Delver, I found basics to be totally invaluable as we got into Wasteland/Daze wars that ended with me on top. Noble+Daze is really strong, and sometimes, Noble+Daze+Wasteland basically wins you the game.

  11. #51
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    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by limbo View Post

    I opted for more consistent mana, and accepted that blood moon and wasteland are good cards. I liked it a lot. I didn't miss the basics. This deck is great fun. I out card advantaged Goblins, which is hard to do, and dismantled UG infect. I finished second on breakers (M:3-1). loss was to BUG Delver (G:1-2) in round 2 with two bad mulligans. I liked the Meddling mages a lot, they were bodies with potent upside which flows well with what the deck does well. I am going to swap 2 envelop for 2 flusterstorm and I think the third will become something else as well (probably Krosan grip, pridemage, or the needle originally in the list) but not changing it until I run some more games. If anyone else tests different configurations, please post results and thoughts. I like this and will definitely be keeping it in the stable of decks to play for a while.

    Edit:
    Additional Card to consider: How do people feel about unexpectedly absent? Seems to fit the plan well and deals with problem permanents.
    "Dismantled" might be a strong term, considering I got you one game in-match and one for fun afterwards, although I will definitely cede the mid to late game to your deck. The loss to bug involved some awkward mana issues, between your waste and his waste, but I'm not sure having basics would have helped that much. If I recall correctly, you had some blue cards and a stp, and having to fetch for one color would have left you with dead cards either way. The real kicker for that game, though, was the golgari charm. Running more flusterstorms in the board might be worthwhile just for that.

  12. #52

    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slag View Post
    "Dismantled" might be a strong term, considering I got you one game in-match and one for fun afterwards, although I will definitely cede the mid to late game to your deck. The loss to bug involved some awkward mana issues, between your waste and his waste, but I'm not sure having basics would have helped that much. If I recall correctly, you had some blue cards and a stp, and having to fetch for one color would have left you with dead cards either way. The real kicker for that game, though, was the golgari charm. Running more flusterstorms in the board might be worthwhile just for that.
    That is fair. Games I won against you, I didn't feel like you really had any outs. The first one you got I definitely misvalued my resources. Infect is scary, but I think the bant deck is favored by quite a bit. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    As for BUG, yeah both of my mulligans left me with 6 card hands that lacked something, G1 I lacked threats then flooded out. G3 I lacked blue for an important turn then he hit waste the turn after I found it (note I got blue by drawing a dual, not a fetch so basic doesn't help there). Agree charm is a big problem.
    Last edited by limbo; 04-15-2014 at 10:44 AM.

  13. #53
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    So if you have a fetch, then basics help? I think it's wrong for a deck that lacks the filtering of 4 BS and 4 Ponders to avoid basics when it can run them. Leveraging mana is always a good thing and it's how I've been winning, especially since it helps against one of the most popular cards in the format.

  14. #54

    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by HSCK View Post
    So if you have a fetch, then basics help? I think it's wrong for a deck that lacks the filtering of 4 BS and 4 Ponders to avoid basics when it can run them. Leveraging mana is always a good thing and it's how I've been winning, especially since it helps against one of the most popular cards in the format.
    I am afraid I do not understand what you are trying to say. Your use of "leveraging" is not clear to me. My thought process for this iteration of the manabase was simply that because the mana requirements are high and because there is not a ton of early filtering (via ponder) that an additional dual and fetch will allow me to cast my spells more frequently than if I had some number of basics which could be in my opening hand. This should also allow me to mulligan slightly less. Given the curve of the deck, even if they have a wasteland I likely get at least one usage out of my land. During testing with 2 basics I had two cases of draws that naturally included basics and no nobles, that allowed my opponents wasteland to take me off of two colors. I don't have enough game reps to know if this construction is truly wrong for this deck, this is why I am trying it both ways. I don't get to play enough to do high number statistics so input (with explanation or stats) is greatly appreciated.

    To your "So if you have a fetch, then basics help?" question: because I am tinkering with the deck I was keeping track during games (with the no basics manabase) of when I would have gotten a basic if I had the option to see how often that came up. I also kept track of when I would have drawn one (slip of paper in the sleeve with the additional trop and the additional fetch was my only heath). Basics would have certainly caused some additional mulligans. In the case I mentioned, I could not have played around the wasteland even if I had basics in the deck (the lands I saw that game were tundra, wasteland, tundra, no brainstorms). That was the only game where I had mana trouble and it was a mulligan to 6 which perhaps I should have thrown back for 5. Thus far I like the no basics manabase.
    Last edited by limbo; 04-15-2014 at 11:46 PM.

  15. #55
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    Re: Noble Fish

    How have you guys dealt with enchantments and artifacts

  16. #56

    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    How have you guys dealt with enchantments and artifacts
    As it stands, don't let them hit play, or play through them, or lose to them. I don't think it is unreasonable to play one K. grip or one Pridemage is the board, but I haven't tried that out yet.

  17. #57
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Noble Fish

    A Grip and a Disenchant. Also testing 3 MD Meddling Mages and 2 SB Trygon Predators after listening to the Podcast.
    Last edited by HSCK; 04-27-2014 at 11:30 PM.

  18. #58

    Re: Noble Fish

    I took Bahra's main deck list to local legacy yesterday and went 3-0-1, splitting round 4. It was quite fun, though not at all what I expected. The tempo of the deck is wildly different from Stoneblade or Patriot despite using many of the same cards as both.

    Playing Daze, you generally want to try and have a 1 drop. The best hands either have a T1 Familiar (best) or a T1 Hierarch backed by Daze (also good). Judge's Familiar is an impressive amount of disruption for a little 1/1 flyer, especially on the play where it will buy you a turn of protection from Thoughtseize, Therapy or just stop a combo. We are able to hit the board very strong.

    T2, unfortunately, is very weak. You can run out Stoneforge early if you have it protected, but the most proactive play is really to cast Hierarch and swing with Familiar for 2. That isn't much, but I won a lot of games nickel and diming peopel with 1/1s and exalted triggers, and it makes me want to focus more on that as a game plan. Hierarch is very strong, but you don't have the long game of Esper's Deathrites. I didn't like Looter at all. The evasion was nice, but he's incredibly weak for 2 mana and the looting effect wasn't as strong as I would have anticipated.

    Some of the creatures felt a little off as well. The textbox on Edric reads like you want to flood the board, but 4 of your creatures attack for 0 alongside another body and another 4 are flying Cursecatchers. You end up getting a lot more exalted triggers and a lot fewer cards than you'd think. Edric is a "must answer", but he won't close the game like a TNN will, and he's really a top of curve bomb. He's awful if you don't already have an evasive threat when you cast him.

    Mother of Runes in particular felt wrong all night. In my experience, she's either a 4-of to threaten turn 1, or just don't play her. Also, she splits our 1 drops color-wise in a way that sometimes forces a turn 1 fetch for a Savannah, which conflicts with Daze. I like that it plays a little more aggressively with Daze instead of Spell Pierce, so Mom needs to swap for a blue or green 1 drop to make sure we can play a strong turn 1.

    For the next few games, I'm going to try swapping Mom for Triton Shorestalker and Looter il-Kor for Qasali Pridemage. That keeps the same number of evasive creatures, with more aggressive 1 drops and cleaner mana on turn 1, adds two more exalted triggers and gives us some mainboard defense against CounterTop or other Stoneblade decks. Mom's protection just isn't as valuable when you can't rely on her hitting the table early.

  19. #59
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    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambriel View Post
    For the next few games, I'm going to try swapping Mom for Triton Shorestalker and Looter il-Kor for Qasali Pridemage. That keeps the same number of evasive creatures, with more aggressive 1 drops and cleaner mana on turn 1, adds two more exalted triggers and gives us some mainboard defense against CounterTop or other Stoneblade decks. Mom's protection just isn't as valuable when you can't rely on her hitting the table early.
    Why not just swap out the Mothers for Pridemages?

  20. #60
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    Re: Noble Fish

    Quote Originally Posted by OCPunisher View Post
    Why not just swap out the Mothers for Pridemages?
    You want one-drop's in the deck for the first turn play.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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