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Thread: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

  1. #121
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Are you really complaining about red getting combo hate? Pyrostatic Pillar is hardly enough to stop Storm and this is only a bit better due to breaking parity with a body of its own. Double red isn't that easy to cast, too.

    The card has potential, but we'll have to wait and see where it has its place in Legacy. Not that it's another Spirit of the Labyrinth.

    While unlikely, now I hope they print Sulfuric Vortex with legs, too.
    No, i'm pretty fine with hate that isn't easily splashable like it being 1R. I'm just fed up with lazy design like kicker-variants as keyword mechanic in EVERY FUCKING EXPANSION and creatures making Sorceries, Enchantments and Artifacts completely obsolete by having all their effects and equal manacosts BUT a body IN ADDITION.

    Seriously, how can peeps get excited about attaching a body to an old card? For me it's lazy design.



    Edit: Hey WotC, when can I expect a Dark Ritual with a body aka Priest of Gix for B (to dodge Spell Pierce as a goodie; Edit: not bad with storm running Cabal Therapy as a playset ... lol)? I'm fine with 2/2 Infernal Tutors too...



    Edit 2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Storm couldn't give two shits, no aggro-control deck in the format is ever going to play a creature for RR when they could play a creature for UW, however it's the tits in burn and any one who bad mouths a playable red creature in Legacy should be taken out to the wood shed.

    I really hope they print Meekstone and Ankh of Mishra on legs too, I'm all for the spells with legs designs. WW for a 2/2 with Meekstone would be mind numbingly awesome for Death&Taxes now that I think about it, god hurry up and print that shit.
    That creature would shit on 95% of WotC's CREATURE design ... doubt that this would happen
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Seriously, how can peeps get excited about attaching a body to an old card? For me it's lazy design.
    I'm fine with bringing back old cards that don't exactly make the cut anymore as creatures.

    Recycling old cards by doubling their effects/mana costs is the real cancer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I really hope they print Meekstone and Ankh of Mishra on legs too,
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    IDK, throw it into a Commander set?

    I don't mind this design approach too much to be honest, I still think spells without legs will have a place in the meta game because nobody plays Disenchant compared to Swords to Plowshares.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    IDK, throw it into a Commander set?

    I don't mind this design approach too much to be honest, I still think spells without legs will have a place in the meta game because nobody plays Disenchant compared to Swords to Plowshares.
    This depends if you mind the creature being removed after their partly devastating EtB effect is on the stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    No, i'm pretty fine with hate that isn't easily splashable like it being 1R. I'm just fed up with lazy design like kicker-variants as keyword mechanic in EVERY FUCKING EXPANSION and creatures making Sorceries, Enchantments and Artifacts completely obsolete by having all their effects and equal manacosts BUT a body IN ADDITION.

    Seriously, how can peeps get excited about attaching a body to an old card? For me it's lazy design.



    Edit: Hey WotC, when can I expect a Dark Ritual with a body aka Priest of Gix for B (to dodge Spell Pierce as a goodie; Edit: not bad with storm running Cabal Therapy as a playset ... lol)? I'm fine with 2/2 Infernal Tutors too...



    Edit 2:


    That creature would shit on 95% of WotC's CREATURE design ... doubt that this would happen
    To be fair, its a little difficult to get away from the idea that "moar mana = moar spell" mechanic without introducing weird dependencies or just having a bunch of tribal and/or dumb triggered abilities.

    I hear what you mean about kicker, but the thing is that it's really just playing off a fundamental game concept - it's a little disingenuous to so liberally apply it to everything. Its like if science goes "hey look we created a new stable element" and then someone trolls them like "bet its just stupid atoms isnt it, lol science come up with something new"

    And the thing is, about a lot of those effects - honestly they suck on enchantments. They just do. Easy example - Crusade blows as an enchantment, but as a Kithkin or Merfolk it suddenly has a home. Pyrostatic Pillar is similar; it's really not amazing unless it is part of a clock, so to that end you have to pick between paying 1R to just deal damage, or paying 1R to maybe deal more. And it is not a good topdeck. At least if it has legs, it can actually do stuff.

    I mean i don't disagree totally, just - i see what they did there.

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  6. #126
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Storm couldn't give two shits, no aggro-control deck in the format is ever going to play a creature for RR when they could play a creature for UW, however it's the tits in burn and any one who bad mouths a playable red creature in Legacy should be taken out to the wood shed.
    It's kinda like this:

    Storm combo traditionally had reasonable game against:

    • Other combo decks since storm is generally faster
    • Non blue creature decks since preboard interaction was non-existent outside of discard


    This was (relatively) balanced by:
    • Blue decks, namely counterbalance
    • The all in nature of the deck -> mistakes leave you very vulnerable
    • Hate cards being very good at what they do, albeit narrow
    • Bans, and many more so than other archetypes. Combo and especially storm combo upsets a lot of people.


    However, the design of cards has pushed us away from considering spell engine based combo because every color is slowly gaining strong cards as countermeasures without storm gaining much. Ad nauseum and past in flames are really good at what they do, but have trouble being effective when:

    • Other combo decks gain speed. Reanimator/show and tell both cheat into play creatures that we once could play around, but now they can pay 14 life and draw 2 force of wills at leisure. Reanimator gets to run discard and soft countermagic in addition to their speed. Show and tell gets to run leylines in the board. Both have extremely safe manabases and targeted discard against a combo piece results in the disruption being live.
    • Non-blue creature decks got a huge leg up in recent years. Graveyard interaction doesn't hurt all variants of storm, but is annoying. Surgical extraction in particular can be run with minimal drawback. Deathrite shaman can keep GY engine routes in check while accelerating the opponent into more disruptive pieces. Thalia is very difficult to play through, as is Lodestone golem and Gaddock teeg. Snapcaster dodges preferred protection such as duress. Liliana curves nicely and prevents critical masses of cards. Ethersworn cannonist and grafdigger's cage are versitile and numerous. Spirit of the labyrinth is annoying
    • Creatures are also in general just better! Delver of secrets and Craterhoof mean you have far fewer turns before your life isn't a resource. Clique acts as both a clock and disruption while being good against other decks (that is to say its usefulness has increased).
    • Blue decks got increasingly better. Aside from delver/snapcaster/clique, flusterstorm and swan song saw printings. Miracles has risen, notion thief sees light play when the meta shifts. UBG delver is really difficult to beat


    I'm really glad for red that a RR creature was printed that is likely legacy playable. I'm really disappointed that one of my favorite decks gets continually shat on with recent printings without unbannings or printings to help it out.
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    This card won't see legacy play. Modern sure. But Legacy RR drop? Red need far more relevant cards to justify a RR drop anywhere. I like that they made it a double colored mana creature at least, less of those stupid 1X splashable anywhere cards.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zllig View Post
    I think you are on to something, and I think this might actually not be complete garbage if Bounty of the Hunt could get you to Time Walk range by itself. Just think, Blessings of Nature does it by itself, then you could use Bounty to get stuck miracles out of your hand attack for a lot and then Time Walk. Damn shame it's not 4 counters, really doubt that would be too busted but who knows.
    Yeah but why turn the 'miracle Timewalk' into a 2 card combo when it already exists as a 1 card combo. Also as far as Bounty goes, is it worth -2 cards for the effect? Bounty is pretty god awful when you don't have the combo too...
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Honestly, Storm has been pooping on Magic for a really long time.

    I know it is not popular to mention his name when he is in the right, but there's a reason MaRo calls the ordered list of things that should never see print ever again "The Storm Scale".

    If Storm becomes worse… Magic kind of becomes better. vOv
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    This card won't see legacy play. Modern sure. But Legacy RR drop? Red need far more relevant cards to justify a RR drop anywhere. I like that they made it a double colored mana creature at least, less of those stupid 1X splashable anywhere cards.
    Burn would like to have a word with you.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn View Post
    Burn would like to have a word with you.
    It seems like sideboard material for burn, but it might be OK in some kind of sligh deck. Hopefully they'll print a Sulphur Elemental that hits blue creatures next.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Honestly, Storm has been pooping on Magic for a really long time.

    I know it is not popular to mention his name when he is in the right, but there's a reason MaRo calls the ordered list of things that should never see print ever again "The Storm Scale".

    If Storm becomes worse… Magic kind of becomes better. vOv
    "Better" is subjective though. I can understand why some people don't like playing against it, but I also can see the appeal of piloting it. I happen to love playing against it, and I find it fascinating as a mechanic. I always thought of Legacy as a place where people could go to play things like Storm... Strategies that present a real challenge no matter which side of the table you're on, strategies that you can't just bash in mindlessly with/against, and a major sense of accomplishment when you do defeat them, or pilot them to victory. Storm is a mechanic that rewards dedication and intelligence, 2 traits that I really enjoy within the MtG community, and I feel like Magic will really have lost something the day Storm finally gets hated out of existence.

    FYI I am not a Storm pilot (though I might be if I owned the necessary cards).
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Honestly, Storm has been pooping on Magic for a really long time.

    I know it is not popular to mention his name when he is in the right, but there's a reason MaRo calls the ordered list of things that should never see print ever again "The Storm Scale".

    If Storm becomes worse… Magic kind of becomes better. vOv
    Did MTG really become better now that Expansions like Born of the Gods have less than 9% of cards, on which the word "creature" isn't written??

    When I started playing the game, WotC described the players as Wizards in an epic battle weaving fantastic magic. Later they made us Planeswalkers who summon powerful allies, but to be honest, these days I feel more like a Zoo Director for abdominations!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    I miss the days when creatures were played for their stats and abilities, not for the attached sorcery-like effects.

    I played Wildfire Emissary in Zoo back in 1996.
    I played Serra Angel in UW Control back in 1997.
    I played Soltari Priest in Crusade back in 1998.
    I played... well... uhm... oh, I played Phelddagrif in Singleton back in 1999 - 2001.
    I played River Boa in Marogeddon back in 2001 - 2002.
    I played Troll Ascetic in Haterator back in 2006.
    I played Terravore in Aggro Loam back in 2007
    I played Mystic Enforcer in NQGw back in 2008.
    I played Exalted Angel in Angel Stax back in 2009.
    I played Sea Drake in Faerie Stompy back in 2010.

    Then I switched to combo. Returning to Creatures.dec once again, I find that there are what, five beaters left in Legacy? Mongoose, Delver, Goyf, Tombstalker and KotR, is that so?
    Ban Goyf, please. Nobody likes vanilla.

    PS: I like the red guy, though. I'd say that "I'm really glad for red that a RR creature was printed that is likely legacy playable". But...

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Returning to Creatures.dec once again, I find that there are what, five beaters left in Legacy? Mongoose, Delver, SFM, Tombstalker and DRS, is that so?
    Ban Goyf, please. Nobody likes vanilla.

    PS: I like the red guy, though. I'd say that "I'm really glad for red that a RR creature was printed that is likely legacy playable". But...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynicath View Post
    "Better" is subjective though. I can understand why some people don't like playing against it, but I also can see the appeal of piloting it. I happen to love playing against it, and I find it fascinating as a mechanic. I always thought of Legacy as a place where people could go to play things like Storm... Strategies that present a real challenge no matter which side of the table you're on, strategies that you can't just bash in mindlessly with/against, and a major sense of accomplishment when you do defeat them, or pilot them to victory. Storm is a mechanic that rewards dedication and intelligence, 2 traits that I really enjoy within the MtG community, and I feel like Magic will really have lost something the day Storm finally gets hated out of existence.

    FYI I am not a Storm pilot (though I might be if I owned the necessary cards).
    Better is certainly subjective, and Wizard's idea of "better" is a big part of the reason why I avoid Standard like a plague and stick to this wonderful format. I love that in Legacy you can actually choose to play zero creatures and be competitive. Storm is one of the coolest decks in the history of Magic and I'm glad that it's a part of Legacy.

    On topic, Eidolon of the Great Revel is the most Legacy-playable card spoiled thus far, but I don't see it having lasting impact. Even if it is better than Pyrostatic Pillar against storm, I almost never see Pyrostatic Pillar anymore.

  17. #137

    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynicath View Post
    "Better" is subjective though. I can understand why some people don't like playing against it, but I also can see the appeal of piloting it. I happen to love playing against it, and I find it fascinating as a mechanic.
    Yes, it's so exciting when you get to watch your opponent take a 10 minute turn 2 while you yawn and doodle on a piece of paper because you have one land out and are not playing blue. Did you die to your own Ad Nauseam yet? Thrilling mind games right there.
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Did MTG really become better now that Expansions like Born of the Gods have less than 9% of cards, on which the word "creature" isn't written??
    This literally means nothing, since the set they printed right before they gifted us with Storm was 100% creatures.

    Look, I've got an old Spring Tide deck collecting dust upstairs; and I've pissed and moaned about moving the game's focus to the battlefield in the past too. I get it, man. But you're so ready to fuss about new cards that you are making goofy connections between what I said about one mechanic and the creature : spell ratio about the last set. Jesus mang, you should like get a hobby to help you deal with the stress from *this* one.

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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by FieryBalrog View Post
    Yes, it's so exciting when you get to watch your opponent take a 10 minute turn 2 while you yawn and doodle on a piece of paper because you have one land out and are not playing blue. Did you die to your own Ad Nauseam yet? Thrilling mind games right there.
    Well... I DO play blue so that might have something to do with my opinion that it's an engaging mechanic. I also enjoy watching my opponent jump through the hoops necessary to complete the combo (or fizzle), though I might be alone in that.
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    Re: [JOU] Journey into Nyx Spoiler discussion

    I'm sure WotC is just doing the creature with powerful effects thing to attract the Hearthstone kids to their business.

    Just like back when Vampires suddenly became a thing in MtG when that Kate Beckinsale movie and Twilight came out.

    I also want to add when they introduced Morph, this was when Yugioh was picking up popularity and the Flip mechanic when Duel Masters became a thing.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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