[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Dragonslayer_90]

Hey guys. So after a brief excursion with Storm at my locals I'm back on Team America. I feel like I've finally gotten out of my slump that I've been in for a while now. So much so that I 4-0-1'ed (ID last round) at my local legacy tournament last week. Here's the list I ran:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Sylvan Library
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Envelop
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 3 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique

My sideboard is a little biased towards beating elves postboard, hence the second cage and toxic deluge. There's always potentially three elves players in my meta, and all three of them were there this time around. Thankfully I dodged them all till the last round, in which he was kind enough to split, though we did some test games. I'm not going to give a report since this was just a local, but I do want some input on something.

Round 2 I faced Rw Painter. I was able to navigate Game One pretty well since I identified early on what he was on and played accordingly. Game 2 I die turn 2 Blood Moon with red blast back up. Game 3 I get there with a Goyf while keeping him off any potential lock pieces and combo pieces.

In the past I've never had much problem beating Rx Painter Moon decks. I feel like BUG Delver has a bit game against them unlike other Delver decks because of Abrupt Decay mostly. However, I am still unsure about how to sideboard against them. Game 2 I sided the following way: -3 Daze, -2 Tarmogoyf, +1 Decay, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle. Game 2 I sided out Liliana for Toxic Deluge as a way of clearing the board if I got too behind in that area since many of their permanents are creatures. This matchup seems harder to sideboard for than other decks since they attack from many different angles being both a prison deck and combo deck in one. Would appreciate input on this matchup. Also would like any input on my list in general if anyone has any opinions on it since I'll probably be running Team at Eternal Extravaganza. I'm thinking I'll probably add a little in the sideboard for miracles. As it stands now it's just metagamed for my local meta which has no miracles atm.

[Manipulato]

Hey Sourcers,
I'm searching for this super sweet playmat which were sold on magiccardmarket.eu.


Unfortunately this playmat was sold out and I don't know the seller :-( Can anybody tell me who that seller on mcm was?
I know its off topic but maybe a TA player knows that article?

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

Kyle Peters has some horrendous boarding plan

tombstalker, daze game 2?

[Dragonslayer_90]

@Manipulato: I have no idea since I'm American but thanks for sharing. That playmat is GORGEOUS. Would love to own it...

@Kobebryan: What are you talking about? Some player on scg stream?

[KobeBryan]

@Manipulato: I have no idea since I'm American but thanks for sharing. That playmat is GORGEOUS. Would love to own it...

@Kobebryan: What are you talking about? Some player on scg stream?

yup. playing against miracles.

[shadowhunter007]

My sideboard is a little biased towards beating elves postboard, hence the second cage and toxic deluge. There's always potentially three elves players in my meta, and all three of them were there this time around. Thankfully I dodged them all till the last round, in which he was kind enough to split, though we did some test games. I'm not going to give a report since this was just a local, but I do want some input on something.

Round 2 I faced Rw Painter. I was able to navigate Game One pretty well since I identified early on what he was on and played accordingly. Game 2 I die turn 2 Blood Moon with red blast back up. Game 3 I get there with a Goyf while keeping him off any potential lock pieces and combo pieces.

In the past I've never had much problem beating Rx Painter Moon decks. I feel like BUG Delver has a bit game against them unlike other Delver decks because of Abrupt Decay mostly. However, I am still unsure about how to sideboard against them. Game 2 I sided the following way: -3 Daze, -2 Tarmogoyf, +1 Decay, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle. Game 2 I sided out Liliana for Toxic Deluge as a way of clearing the board if I got too behind in that area since many of their permanents are creatures. This matchup seems harder to sideboard for than other decks since they attack from many different angles being both a prison deck and combo deck in one. Would appreciate input on this matchup. Also would like any input on my list in general if anyone has any opinions on it since I'll probably be running Team at Eternal Extravaganza. I'm thinking I'll probably add a little in the sideboard for miracles. As it stands now it's just metagamed for my local meta which has no miracles atm.

I would be siding out -2 disfigures as well since they can't really kill the painter's servants and the only real problem permanent they deal with are revokers. I would add +2 golgari charms in their place - which can deal with revokers with it's -1/-1, can get rid of blood moons and regenerate your dude if they try to pyroblast/reb your permanent to get those last points of damage through. Our Abrupt Decays seem like they're overloaded in this matchup with all the Servants and Blood Moon-like permanents that a couple more enchantment removal that can serve other purposes seems pretty good. I generally don't think that its a terrible matchup but can be blown out by those early blood moons, I estimate it at 50/50 at least in my experience.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I think I've got my maindeck for Team America pretty much set for Eternal Extravaganza this weekend. However, I'm still tinkering with my sideboard and would like some input on it. Here it is:

SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 Sylvan Library

What I'm not sure about is the Toxic Deluge slot. The reason for it's inclusion is to have a card that blows out D&T that isn't so narrow. The issue with it is 1) It cost 3 and the life loss can be relevant sometimes. 2) Is the fact that it kills our creatures too much? Other cards I have considered are Dread of Night, Massacre, or even just go back to the third Golgari Charm.

[Esper3k]

If you're looking to hit specifically D&T, I think Dread of Night is the best one. It hoses them perpetually and doesn't do anything to us.

[o_boogie]

I think Toxic Deluge is fine. Besides being exceptional against D&T, it is also excellent against two other problem match ups: Merfolk and Elves.

[ryscott85]

So I was trying to figure out a good sideboard card for some of our not so great aggro matches. Merfolk sucks, we all know that. Death and taxes and elves can be alright if we draw into the right hate. Unlike miracles and death blade, we do not have a catch all sweeper, (yes golgari charms are awesome, but not for every circumstance). Has anyone tried engineered explosives as a catch all? It seems that it would cover most of merfolk and a large portion of d&t. I know you may sometimes catch a guy or two of your own in the crossfire, however; it'll often be a two for one if not three for one if timed correctly. I have not tried this yet, as it may very well just be too slow, however; I was wondering what you guys thought of it as an option?

[suffah]

How do you guys play the burn matchup? Seems rough post and preboard.

[YamiKuriboh]

How do you guys play the burn matchup? Seems rough post and preboard.

Burn is favourable imo. Get a goyf out asap as a 3/4, strip their hand with hymn, never play more than two lands unless you have a daze in hand or one of the lands is an untapped wasteland so you can destroy a land in response to price of progress. Price of progress is their big card so try not to take more than 4 from it. Counter repeatable sources of damage, recognise that delver and shaman are going to die pretty quickly.

[shadowhunter007]

Burn is favourable imo. Get a goyf out asap as a 3/4, strip their hand with hymn, never play more than two lands unless you have a daze in hand or one of the lands is an untapped wasteland so you can destroy a land in response to price of progress. Price of progress is their big card so try not to take more than 4 from it. Counter repeatable sources of damage, recognise that delver and shaman are going to die pretty quickly.

Burn seems like it's a toss-up and really depends on how aggressive your hand is. If you don't end up having an aggressive start, they will usually out-pace you with their normal clock. Since we don't really have much ways of lifegain aside from Deathrite (and i don't expect him to live very long, if at all long enough to gain life), it's an all-out race to the finish line against burn.

I second most of what Yami has already stated as it's pretty universal advice against burn for both pre-board and post-board games. Hymn is the card you want early here to lower the density of spells they can cast. Goyf is your friend, both to stop guides and be above bolt-range, he'll be your usual win-con and also will want to get him out early so long as he's a 3/4 (or if you have multiple) to have a reliable clock.

As far as boarding goes, I generally don't change much, I take out the sources of damage to myself in my deck, namely one bob and my two thoughtseizes out for some spell pierce/flusterstorm. I'd consider putting in cliques for more threats to try to win the race and potentially steal their price of progress if they've tapped out if you're looking for cards to put in. I leave the decays in for guides and eidelons. If you have disfigures in the board, you could argue that those should replace the decays. I don't run any in my board at the moment so can't bring them in. I also mulligan if my hand doesn't come out of the gates playing threats. hands like 2 abrupt decay, wasteland, 2 fetch, ponder, daze just might not cut it.

[shadowhunter007]

So I was trying to figure out a good sideboard card for some of our not so great aggro matches. Merfolk sucks, we all know that. Death and taxes and elves can be alright if we draw into the right hate. Unlike miracles and death blade, we do not have a catch all sweeper, (yes golgari charms are awesome, but not for every circumstance). Has anyone tried engineered explosives as a catch all? It seems that it would cover most of merfolk and a large portion of d&t. I know you may sometimes catch a guy or two of your own in the crossfire, however; it'll often be a two for one if not three for one if timed correctly. I have not tried this yet, as it may very well just be too slow, however; I was wondering what you guys thought of it as an option?

ryscott85 - I generally use toxic deluge as my catch-all sweeper rather than EE since EE only gets things with the same casting cost - Casting Deluge can be slightly problematic at 3CC against death and taxes sometimes, but EE requires 2 mana to cast and 2 to activate so not sure that's markedly better either so generally perfer deluge. Others may have a different opinion. Pernicious deed is also another option some may consider that are on-color, which is something that Nic Fit and some Shardless BUG lists play however BUG Delver plays far fewer lands and casting that and having the mana to activate for the right amount of CC seems difficult at times since it's even more mana intensive than Toxic Deluge, particularly against D&T.

[YamiKuriboh]

Just played nic-fit followed by pikula and got trounced by both. Explorer, thragtusk, lingering souls just seems awful. Are these matches unwinnable? Any strategy or sb advice?

[shadowhunter007]

Just played nic-fit followed by pikula and got trounced by both. Explorer, thragtusk, lingering souls just seems awful. Are these matches unwinnable? Any strategy or sb advice?

nic-fit's good matchups are generally the mid-range delver decks and other fair decks so this is not a particularly good matchup for us and is usually one I hope to avoid in my build. My build runs dark confidants instead of tombstalkers but if yours runs stalkers, you're already in a better place against nic fit as that is a permanent they can have some amount of difficulty dealing with.

As far as board, sweepers that can deal with large creatures such as deluge or maelstrom pulse are good answers but for me, its something I don't generally try to devote a huge amount of sideboard to since its a matchup that I don't expect to encounter too often. Perhaps the meta is changing though and we'll have to adjust.

[wcm8]

I've been playing 2 Toxic Deluge in the main to deal with the various creature strategies in Legacy, mainly Elves, Esper Blade and DnT which see a fair amount of play in my local meta. If you time it right, you don't have to kill any of your own creatures either. It works very well since most players feel pretty confident about over-extending in game 1 against TA since there's generally no threat of mass removal. This is a step towards playing like BUG Cascade, just without having to run a bunch of clunky late-game cards or auto-lose to combo.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I've been playing 2 Toxic Deluge in the main to deal with the various creature strategies in Legacy, mainly Elves, Esper Blade and DnT which see a fair amount of play in my local meta. If you time it right, you don't have to kill any of your own creatures either. It works very well since most players feel pretty confident about over-extending in game 1 against TA since there's generally no threat of mass removal. This is a step towards playing like BUG Cascade, just without having to run a bunch of clunky late-game cards or auto-lose to combo.

Do you play the two deluges in place of flex slot cards like Liliana?

Also, I won the Legacy SCG IQ today that they held during the Columbus, OH PTQ with BUG Delver. Probably post some sort of mini-report tomorrow when not so tired.

[AggroControl]

What I'm not sure about is the Toxic Deluge slot. The reason for it's inclusion is to have a card that blows out D&T that isn't so narrow. The issue with it is 1) It cost 3 and the life loss can be relevant sometimes. 2) Is the fact that it kills our creatures too much? Other cards I have considered are Dread of Night, Massacre, or even just go back to the third Golgari Charm.

Massacre is somewhat narrow but you can cast it under a Thalia + Rishadan Port scenario for 1 mana and blowing out D&T's initial creature drops early is a key in the matchup. The only thing more important than that is killing/countering Vial fast. If you can do both then D&T is just a slow white weenie deck.

With a Deathrite Shaman out you can hard cast Massacre turn 3 against Elves. If you got rid of their initial mana elf drop that might be just in time. Massacre is slow against them but so is everything else but Golgari Charm, assuming they don't drop a lord on turn 2 which they can easily do.

Against Esper Stoneblade and UWR Delver Massacre hits every creature they have until equipment hits the board. You likely get to cast Massacre for 1 against them also, leaving mana up for counter play or alternately allowing you to Hymn them before casting.

[Dice_Box]

I have a very DnT heavy meta and I have gone with 2 Dread and 2 Toxic. Dread is just not fair and Toxic is a good answer to other randoms that arise. Like eating regeneration creatures. Personally, while I like having Charm at instant speed, sometimes that extra impact is really worth the investment.