[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[wwoning]

Top 4'ed the event. In the 5 rds of swiss, i beat Mud, UW mentor w/ SFM and DTT, merfolk, lost to omni and junkblade, quarters I beat omni, semi's I lost a close match with rug delver.

Congrats on the result! Could you share your list and tell some more about the match vs mentor? It does not seem like a great matchup?

[wcm8]

re: the new mulligan rule

Someone in the Format Discussion thread did the math. For a 20-land deck that wants to hit its second land drop on time, and in the event of mulling down to a 6-hander with 1 land: with the help of the new Scry 1 mulligan effect, the chance of finding the second land by turn 2 raises from 35% to 58%.

Should the new mulligan rule extend to Legacy, I think this will result in possible reconfiguration of many decks' mana base configuration (basically, cutting 1-2 lands to fit in more business spells). TA can already operate somewhat comfortably on 19 lands; the 20th tends to function as added insurance. Just something to consider.

[Sturtzilla]

Greetings All!

I have another quick tournament report to give. I have changed gears a bit since my last post and pivoted back to the Stifle configuration. I piloted the deck to a 3-1 finish this week losing a rather odd match to a midrange Cascade deck. Here is the current list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Dark Confidant
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
2 Disfigure
1 Null Rod
1 Echoing Truth
1 Sylvan Library
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Murderous Cut

Round 1: URGB Cascade - (1-2)
This was the Bloodbraid Elf and Shardless Agent Deck. It had a black splash for both Deathrite and Abrupt Decay. He manages to stabilize in game one by hitting back to back, blind, double cascades. So BBE into Agent into value spell, with no set up. Games two and three we each got stuck on mana and the other player closed a quick game.

Round 2: Dredge - (2-0)
In game one I Force his turn one action spell and then wasteland him off of mana. Game two I have a Cage which keeps him locked down until I have a lethal force.

Round 3: UWR Stoneforge - (2-1)
So we only completed two game and both were very awkward on each side of the table. I was able to hinder his mana development but he was able to kill most of my threats. So the games went long. He was a very nice guy and conceeded when it was clear we wouldn't get though a game three.

Round 4: UWr Miracles - (2-1)
I get locked out by double Counterbalance and a SDT in game 1. I Abrupt Decayed the first CB, but alas, he had a second one. Game two he mulligans, and I get to play a Delver and then Stifle and Wasteland him on turn two. He conceeded here. Game three I managed to attack his mana a bit and apply pressure. He wasn't able to find a Terminus and died.


Overall I liked the list that I played. I ended 3-1, which was good for 4th due to everyone finishing 3-1. I think I only made one real error over the course of the night. I missed out on 2 points of lifeloss from a DRS by targeting my UWR Stoneblade opponent's card rather than my own. He was able to Dig Through Time in response. I was able to counter the DTT, but the 2 points missed here gave him an extra draw step. I feel like I may need to do a bit of testing to find the right card for both midrange and the Miracles match ups. The Miracles match up seems fine but I would really just like a way to fight them on a new axis. I think Garruk Relentless might fit the bill. It is tough for them to Counterbalance and they probably only have one or two ways to answer it. The constant stream of 2/2s or 1/1s pressures their life total or Jace. The constant creatures also tax their removal suite. I have also been thinking about trying Ashiok but it seems weaker as you are working towards milling them out and may get a touch of value from a SCM or VC. Ashiok is cool in that it makes Top a bit less reliable. I just don't think I can warrant a sideboard slot on Zur's Weirding in my local meta. If an open field is likely to contain a ton of Miracles and Omnishow, I might reconsider. As for the "new mulligan rule," we may be able to shave a land to 19 and be a bit more consistent, but we will have to wait and see if it will be implemented on all levels. Anyway those are my thoughts for now, thanks for reading and any comments are welcome and appreciated!

[KobeBryan]

Greetings All!

I have another quick tournament report to give. I have changed gears a bit since my last post and pivoted back to the Stifle configuration. I piloted the deck to a 3-1 finish this week losing a rather odd match to a midrange Cascade deck. Here is the current list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Dark Confidant
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
2 Disfigure
1 Null Rod
1 Echoing Truth
1 Sylvan Library
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Murderous Cut

Round 1: URGB Cascade - (1-2)
This was the Bloodbraid Elf and Shardless Agent Deck. It had a black splash for both Deathrite and Abrupt Decay. He manages to stabilize in game one by hitting back to back, blind, double cascades. So BBE into Agent into value spell, with no set up. Games two and three we each got stuck on mana and the other player closed a quick game.

Round 2: Dredge - (2-0)
In game one I Force his turn one action spell and then wasteland him off of mana. Game two I have a Cage which keeps him locked down until I have a lethal force.

Round 3: UWR Stoneforge - (2-1)
So we only completed two game and both were very awkward on each side of the table. I was able to hinder his mana development but he was able to kill most of my threats. So the games went long. He was a very nice guy and conceeded when it was clear we wouldn't get though a game three.

Round 4: UWr Miracles - (2-1)
I get locked out by double Counterbalance and a SDT in game 1. I Abrupt Decayed the first CB, but alas, he had a second one. Game two he mulligans, and I get to play a Delver and then Stifle and Wasteland him on turn two. He conceeded here. Game three I managed to attack his mana a bit and apply pressure. He wasn't able to find a Terminus and died.


Overall I liked the list that I played. I ended 3-1, which was good for 4th due to everyone finishing 3-1. I think I only made one real error over the course of the night. I missed out on 2 points of lifeloss from a DRS by targeting my UWR Stoneblade opponent's card rather than my own. He was able to Dig Through Time in response. I was able to counter the DTT, but the 2 points missed here gave him an extra draw step. I feel like I may need to do a bit of testing to find the right card for both midrange and the Miracles match ups. The Miracles match up seems fine but I would really just like a way to fight them on a new axis. I think Garruk Relentless might fit the bill. It is tough for them to Counterbalance and they probably only have one or two ways to answer it. The constant stream of 2/2s or 1/1s pressures their life total or Jace. The constant creatures also tax their removal suite. I have also been thinking about trying Ashiok but it seems weaker as you are working towards milling them out and may get a touch of value from a SCM or VC. Ashiok is cool in that it makes Top a bit less reliable. I just don't think I can warrant a sideboard slot on Zur's Weirding in my local meta. If an open field is likely to contain a ton of Miracles and Omnishow, I might reconsider. As for the "new mulligan rule," we may be able to shave a land to 19 and be a bit more consistent, but we will have to wait and see if it will be implemented on all levels. Anyway those are my thoughts for now, thanks for reading and any comments are welcome and appreciated!

How is dark confidant?

[Sturtzilla]

How is dark confidant?

I have been really liking it. I have been considering dropping the Tasigur, the Golden Fang to go to 2 Dark Confidants. The raw card advantage is really good. I did activate Tasigur, 3-4 times over the course of the night. Bob being unaffected my graveyard hate plus the higher velocity in terms of card advantage really are making me lean that direction.

[KobeBryan]

I have been really liking it. I have been considering dropping the Tasigur, the Golden Fang to go to 2 Dark Confidants. The raw card advantage is really good. I did activate Tasigur, 3-4 times over the course of the night. Bob being unaffected my graveyard hate plus the higher velocity in terms of card advantage really are making me lean that direction.

2 bobs with 4 FOW and thoughtseizes

Thats kinda rough man. Why not 1 tasiguar, sylvan library.

[btm10]

2 bobs with 4 FOW and thoughtseizes

Thats kinda rough man. Why not 1 tasiguar, sylvan library.

His mean CMC is still less than 1.5. People really overestimate how much damage Bob is going to do and really underestimate how good card advantage is. If you look a couple of pages back I was running a list with Bob, two Digs, and Gurmag Angler on top of Forces. I've flipped Angler and Dig once each since then and won both games - one of which was against RUG (the other was Miracles, and to be fair, each flip came in the 'right' matchup). Don't get hung up on what individual cards cost. Focus on average CMC and don't forget that Bob has a body.

[Domri Rade]

I have only been playing the deck a couple of weeks after coming from Jund, but I have played to weekly events at my LGS and have been able to split top four both weeks. Bob has consistently won me games where I was able to land him on the field, and I was even able to beat a burn player that I flipped a FoW to (got pretty lucky there). I think I may drop my fourth copy of FoW in the main deck to play a third Bob.

I was wondering what you guys think about lilliana in the deck though. I have been playing 2 main deck copies and have found her to be pretty underwhelming in most of the games that I have played, most of the time when i play her I only use her to -2 then she just sits there the rest of the game. I loved her in Jund where I ran 3-4 thoughtsieze and 3-4 hymn, but she just hasn't been doing it for me.

[Whitefaces]

I have only been playing the deck a couple of weeks after coming from Jund, but I have played to weekly events at my LGS and have been able to split top four both weeks. Bob has consistently won me games where I was able to land him on the field, and I was even able to beat a burn player that I flipped a FoW to (got pretty lucky there). I think I may drop my fourth copy of FoW in the main deck to play a third Bob.

I was wondering what you guys think about lilliana in the deck though. I have been playing 2 main deck copies and have found her to be pretty underwhelming in most of the games that I have played, most of the time when i play her I only use her to -2 then she just sits there the rest of the game. I loved her in Jund where I ran 3-4 thoughtsieze and 3-4 hymn, but she just hasn't been doing it for me.

I'm with you on both points. I started with 2 Bobs a while ago, but it didn't take long to go to 3 as he's overperformed. I've since gone down to 3 Force of Will. I'm playing 1 TNN, which has been OK, it might become the 4th FoW again though.

I also started out playing Hymns and Liliana, but they were underwhelming for me. T1 Delver into T2 Hymn felt...weird, attacking their life total and hand wasn't what I wanted to be doing. I'd prefer to be attacking their resources they've had to spend mana on, so I'm playing 3 Spell Pierce and 4 Stifle.

[kryllex]

I am playing 4 FoW, 3 Hymn, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Lillys, pretty much tapout. In the 2 creature flex slots im testing 2 Gurmag anglers right now - i played Tasigur for a long time, but he mostly "just" was goyf 5 and 6, rarely got activated, hes terrible versus DNT and now also miracles, since they play Karakas main again. As far as my testing goes, gurmag is pretty nice, since he is also decayproof and kills 80% of enemy-goyfs. I tested TNN, but i think he is just bad in this deck, since he is nothing more then a power 3 beatstick. Also thinking about switching to bobs - a friend of mine plays them (2x), and they are seriously good. Especially versus Miracles - Bob is the powerfist there.

[Sturtzilla]

2 bobs with 4 FOW and thoughtseizes. That's kinda rough man. Why not 1 tasiguar, sylvan library?

I don't see how. I would have 4 draws that are relatively painful and 2 cards that cause some life loss (with 4 DRS, which can gain me life). The average CMC of the deck is still very low, which is what you really care about when you are playing Bob. I have said this a few times before and I will say it again, I have flipped FoWs, a Tombstalker, and once a DTT to a Dark Confidant. Never has the life loss from Bob killed me or, more importantly, put me in an unwinnable game state (for example, dead to my opponent's board). So my reasoning for 2 Bobs over a Tasigur and Library split would be the following:

1. Bob is consistently easier to cast post board in the face of opposing DRS, RiP, Relics, etc than Tasigur.
2. Bob is consistent card advantage, Tasigur does not always provide card advantage.
3. Bob is on average a better rate on card advantage than Sylvan Library. 4 life per extra card is going to be more than Bob, unless you flip one of 4 FoWs.
4. Bob has a body. Yes it is smaller than Tasigur, but 2 2/1s will give you more play than a 4/5 and an enchantment. In line with this point, Bob can do things like block, as soon as you play him, Library really is kind of like Time Walking yourself so that you can get better selection and some card advantage on subsequent turns.

If you are skepitcal of my good friend, Robert, pick up a couple copies and give him a try. I am pretty sure that you will like how he works.

His mean CMC is still less than 1.5. People really overestimate how much damage Bob is going to do and really underestimate how good card advantage is. If you look a couple of pages back I was running a list with Bob, two Digs, and Gurmag Angler on top of Forces. I've flipped Angler and Dig once each since then and won both games - one of which was against RUG (the other was Miracles, and to be fair, each flip came in the 'right' matchup). Don't get hung up on what individual cards cost. Focus on average CMC and don't forget that Bob has a body.

I completely agree. Card advantage is very meaningful and I think players often don't recognize how powerful it can be. Your life total really isn't meaningful until you are dead. More specifically those first 19 life points don't really matter. It is the last 1 that matters. This is a very simplistic argument and match up to match up this value might need to be buffered. Say in the Burn match up, you probably don't want to got to 1 life. You probably want to try to stabilize around 10 +/- 2 area. Conversely, I have killed Omnishow and Sneak and Show opponents while my life total was between 1 and 5 life. In these match ups your life total truly doesn't matter until you are dead. The core idea being that, paying life for cards is typically good so long as it does not kill you. Moreover, with a low average CMC of cards in the deck, we shouldn't be loosing much life anyway.

[Thedougler]

I am still quite new to the deck and legacy in general, but I have been jamming a bunch of games and played in a few proxy events at my LGS. I started out with a more black heavy build, and transitioned into an awkward hybrid deck that was a little clunky with too many double mana costs, into where I am now with a Blue heavy build.

I am wondering what you guys think about this build. It definitely felt better than the black heavy version I played in my first tournament, but it is also probably the fact that I am becoming more comfortable piloting it as well.

I felt like True-name really was a powerhouse against most decks, and powering him out on Turn 2 with a deathrite shaman was almost unbeatable to a lot of decks. I wasn't sure about Dig Through Time at first, but it felt really strong in the games I played to find sideboard 1-ofs and various answers to specific threats on board. The basic island was a card I thought could be useful because I play in a wasteland heavy meta, and having a more resilient blue source felt important to me. I'm not sure that it is necessary though, and could screw me over with Abrupt Decay and Deathrite in the deck.

I think I am still having trouble with the sideboard, 2/3 legacy events in town right now are proxy events to build interest in the format, so the meta is not super stable as people are trying out various things, but I am generally worried about Miracles, Lands, and Death & Taxes (to a lesser extent stoneblade as well) which are the decks that more experienced players run here. Does anyone have advice on some good strategies for Lands? That was the deck I seemed to have the most trouble with, especially because I am not well versed in all the things it does.

Here is the list I am running:

Creature (15)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogoyf
3x True-Name Nemesis

Instant (22)
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Dig Through Time
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
3x Stifle

Sorcery (4)
4x Ponder

Land (19)
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland


Sideboard (15)
2x Disfigure
2x Divert
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Krosan Grip
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Marsh Casualties
1x Murderous Cut
1x Pithing Needle
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
2x Thoughtseize


Thanks for any advice you guys can share with me!

[KobeBryan]

liliana and surgical has been very lackluster for me in this meta. how are you guys feeling about it.

[Domri Rade]

liliana and surgical has been very lackluster for me in this meta. how are you guys feeling about it.

As I posted above, Lili has been a dud most games, and as for surgical I like it because there is a lot of reanimator at my LGS.

[Lifeloss]

I am still quite new to the deck and legacy in general, but I have been jamming a bunch of games and played in a few proxy events at my LGS. I started out with a more black heavy build, and transitioned into an awkward hybrid deck that was a little clunky with too many double mana costs, into where I am now with a Blue heavy build.

I am wondering what you guys think about this build. It definitely felt better than the black heavy version I played in my first tournament, but it is also probably the fact that I am becoming more comfortable piloting it as well.

I felt like True-name really was a powerhouse against most decks, and powering him out on Turn 2 with a deathrite shaman was almost unbeatable to a lot of decks. I wasn't sure about Dig Through Time at first, but it felt really strong in the games I played to find sideboard 1-ofs and various answers to specific threats on board. The basic island was a card I thought could be useful because I play in a wasteland heavy meta, and having a more resilient blue source felt important to me. I'm not sure that it is necessary though, and could screw me over with Abrupt Decay and Deathrite in the deck.

I think I am still having trouble with the sideboard, 2/3 legacy events in town right now are proxy events to build interest in the format, so the meta is not super stable as people are trying out various things, but I am generally worried about Miracles, Lands, and Death & Taxes (to a lesser extent stoneblade as well) which are the decks that more experienced players run here. Does anyone have advice on some good strategies for Lands? That was the deck I seemed to have the most trouble with, especially because I am not well versed in all the things it does.

Here is the list I am running:

Creature (15)
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogoyf
3x True-Name Nemesis

Instant (22)
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Dig Through Time
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
3x Stifle

Sorcery (4)
4x Ponder

Land (19)
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland


Sideboard (15)
2x Disfigure
2x Divert
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Krosan Grip
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Marsh Casualties
1x Murderous Cut
1x Pithing Needle
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
2x Thoughtseize


Thanks for any advice you guys can share with me!

Hey! Welcome to Legacy :D

You're correct to be off double black at the moment (this man's opinion). The reason is that Dig Through Time is a magic card, and Hymn'ing away a couple cantrips to gas up that card is less than ideal.. not where you want to be right now.

The thing that glares at me main deck is three True-name. There's a couple of things you can think about:

1) True-name can block Mirran Crusader, kind of a big deal. If you see a lot of matchups with that card ok, 3 is still a lot.

2) True-name i dont love against Miracles, he does pitch to force and he dodges plow... but Terminus gets him. If you're seeing the weird 'Miracle-less Counterbalance 4 Mentor in the main' list thats going around. He's actually pretty great.

3) Jace the Mind Scupltor actually gives you a lot more for just 1 more mana. You'll have the ability to switch gears into a mid-rangey type list (Liliana in the side) against appropriate decks.

4) You're not running equipment which makes True-name a bit worse.

All in all, three True-name seems excessive and if you absolutely love the card, he can be fine in smaller numbers.

[Lifeloss]

liliana and surgical has been very lackluster for me in this meta. how are you guys feeling about it.

Agreed, I'm on BUG/Sultai Delver and Shardless and when she's been average shes been average and when she hasn't been average she's been horrible (in both decks).

She's fueling up Dig Through Time for the opponent... sure if you can get ahead on board she can be ok.. but there's so many cards you need an answer for right away now. The problem is inherent in that the Dig deck's gameplan is to 1 for 1 until they can dig (or Miracles 1 for 1 until they can XXX), and if your gameplan is to 2 for 1 you're just speeding that up...

An idea would be to attack their graveyard, but that's not necessarily where I think you want to be. Affecting the board and/or putting some pressure on is how you're going to win.

Liliana has left me wanting. :(

[Domri Rade]

I have seen divert pop up in a few lists, can someone help me out with what matchups people are boarding it in for?

[jim111589]

I have seen divert pop up in a few lists, can someone help me out with what matchups people are boarding it in for?

Divert is for decks with removal, specifically decay.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Thedougler]

Hey! Welcome to Legacy :D

You're correct to be off double black at the moment (this man's opinion). The reason is that Dig Through Time is a magic card, and Hymn'ing away a couple cantrips to gas up that card is less than ideal.. not where you want to be right now.

The thing that glares at me main deck is three True-name. There's a couple of things you can think about:

1) True-name can block Mirran Crusader, kind of a big deal. If you see a lot of matchups with that card ok, 3 is still a lot.

2) True-name i dont love against Miracles, he does pitch to force and he dodges plow... but Terminus gets him. If you're seeing the weird 'Miracle-less Counterbalance 4 Mentor in the main' list thats going around. He's actually pretty great.

3) Jace the Mind Scupltor actually gives you a lot more for just 1 more mana. You'll have the ability to switch gears into a mid-rangey type list (Liliana in the side) against appropriate decks.

4) You're not running equipment which makes True-name a bit worse.

All in all, three True-name seems excessive and if you absolutely love the card, he can be fine in smaller numbers.

Thanks for the thoughts, the third true-name was a last minute switch and I cut a 4th stifle for it. I think I might have been too hyped on it after getting it out on turn 2 a couple times and just winning off of it, which is why I originally added the third. I do see a lot of D&T matchups where he seems very strong, but maybe I will try with the 4th stifle again instead and go with that for now.

In my sideboard I originally had 1 Jace, and I think I might put him back in there in place of grafdiggers cage, as I haven't seen anyone run a deck that I would need it against in my local meta. I think the only decks I need graveyard interaction for is a couple people playing lands, where I think surgical extraction is good for hitting their life from the loam.

[eostby]

One thought that I keep coming back to (even thought I've kind of set my work on building this deck aside for now as others are in much closer reach) is whether Ashiok might be a replacement for at least one Liliana in the decks that can't hit double black as easily. The main thing you lose with the switch is Lili's -2, but unless you're trying to kill something indestructible or Emrakul, is that such a big thing to lose right now? Has anyone tested this recently (other than probably Fabiano)?