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Thread: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

  1. #3001

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    - I know about the 4th sea, but I have only 3-of. This is the reason to play Gurmag over Stalker...but in my tests with proxy sea, I hadn't the double BB for stalker when I drew Angler...
    - About the free slot of Library: I don't want the 4th cc3 spell, and then I don't want the 4th daze for its drawback...(I will never cast TNN eheheh).
    - I don't understand about MCs...do u prefer the split 1DofNight-1MCs or 2MCs?
    - About Blossom: I played it before DRS ban. Now I think that it could be another wincon.For example also against UBShadow

    Against UBshadow this is a great matchup, unless he made daze,waste,waste,seize,seize etc etc...

    PS: this is my idea of sideboard: https://ibb.co/iOemtK
    Thanks for the boarding list - Ok, with no 4th USea, Gurmag is way better. And I'm getting the agrument with no additional 3cc/4th Daze but aren't here still better options than SL?

    I would prefer 2 MCs due to versatility. Will be testing BB the next couple of games, maybe I'm coming to the same conclusion.

  2. #3002
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Storming_Dude View Post
    Thanks for the boarding list - Ok, with no 4th USea, Gurmag is way better. And I'm getting the agrument with no additional 3cc/4th Daze but aren't here still better options than SL?

    I would prefer 2 MCs due to versatility. Will be testing BB the next couple of games, maybe I'm coming to the same conclusion.
    Instead of Daze, I prefer to play 1 BBlossom MD against Shadow/DT/Control decks (and it pomps GOYF)...this one could save my other pieces from edicts. So, I love Daze, but with 3 tnn MD and 2 hope SB isn't a right option (in my opinion).
    Finally, I agree with u about 2MCs.


    Edited: I don't want 3 ponder and 1 library because there are some games where I start with 1 land and 2 ponder (keep)...I prefer this one. In addition I don't want to reduce instant/sorceries for Delver.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
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  3. #3003

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    Hi mates, next week I'll have a big tournament and I would like to have your opinions about this:

    4 verdant catacombs
    4 polluted delta
    1 misty rainforest
    4 wasteland
    3 underground sea
    2 tropical island
    2 bayou

    4 delver of secrets
    4 tarmogoyf
    3 true-name nemesis
    2 gurmag angler

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 force of will
    3 daze
    3 hymn to tourach
    3 fatal push
    3 abrupt decay
    2 diabolic edict
    1 sylvan library

    SIDEBOARD
    3 surgical extraction
    2 flusterstorm
    2 spell pierce
    2 thoughtseize
    2 bitterblossom
    2 liliana, the last hope
    1 marsh casualties
    1 dread of night
    Nice, this is very close to the mainboard I've been using and have been liking a lot. Only difference is
    -1 Fatal Push + 1 Daze
    -1 Edict +1 Dismember (a very clean and direct way to deal with anglers)
    -1 Bayou +1 Underground
    -2 Gurmag +2 Tombstalker (still not sure about this though)

    My sideboard is similar but I'm not running spell pierce - been pretty happy with it. And yes I agree that we have a great matchup against Death's Shadow, abrupt decay and all the removal are so great to have.

  4. #3004
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by marshalltj View Post
    Nice, this is very close to the mainboard I've been using and have been liking a lot. Only difference is
    -1 Fatal Push + 1 Daze
    -1 Edict +1 Dismember (a very clean and direct way to deal with anglers)
    -1 Bayou +1 Underground
    -2 Gurmag +2 Tombstalker (still not sure about this though)

    My sideboard is similar but I'm not running spell pierce - been pretty happy with it. And yes I agree that we have a great matchup against Death's Shadow, abrupt decay and all the removal are so great to have.
    yea, with the 4th sea I could play stalker over gurmag, and about dismember I played it before the "boom" of death shadow...after,2th edict for big creatures...too strong right now.
    so, write a report after your next tournament!
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
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  5. #3005
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Hi mates...
    I would like to share my Side IN/OUT to you..

    SIDEBOARD

    Any suggestions?

    4 verdant catacombs
    4 polluted delta
    1 misty rainforest
    4 wasteland
    3 underground sea
    2 tropical island
    2 bayou

    4 delver of secrets
    4 tarmogoyf
    3 true-name nemesis
    2 gurmag angler

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 force of will
    3 daze
    3 hymn to tourach
    3 fatal push
    3 abrupt decay
    2 diabolic edict
    1 sylvan library

    SIDEBOARD
    3 surgical extraction
    2 flusterstorm
    2 spell pierce
    2 thoughtseize
    2 bitterblossom
    2 liliana, the last hope
    2 marsh casualties
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  6. #3006

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    Hi mates...
    I would like to share my Side IN/OUT to you..

    SIDEBOARD

    Any suggestions?
    Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts, a few comments from my point of view:

    - Miracles - I don't like Surgicals in this MU and would leave in at least the 4th FoW and maybe even the second Angler
    - Grixis Delver - Instead of reducing our # of threats I would rather cut Hymns or not board in the Flusterstorms
    - UB Shadow - Same here, I think that our flying threats are rly important for pressure, thus I would either cut Hymns/Goyfs or not board Flusterstorms
    - ANT/TES - I don't like the AD in this MU post-board (even though this sometimes leads to a blow out by Xantid Swarm), I would rather 2 TNN (Pitch to Force) or 1 Waste 1 TNN
    - Eldrazi - If this refers to Aggro Eldrazi (where Daze often shines but FoW does not), I would rather cut FoW instead of Daze (as Chalice is not really a problem for us) to catch TKS / Reality Smasher on curve without issues and card-disadvantage
    - D&T - Why are you keeping in 2 FoW while boarding out Hymn which is sometimes a huge blow out? Would do it reverse
    - Lands - Why are you bringing in TS in this MU? OTP maybe but with only two the discard into surgical advantage seems too low for me - Would keep in 2 Daze as they to a lot of work early on
    - Red Prison - Would cut 2 more Pushs (does not hit any threats w/o fetch, blocked by Chalice) instead of TNN and Ponder
    - Blade - I would rather reduce the # of Wastelands instead of Daze as especially Esperblade is operating on a tight mana base and Daze often catches them off-guard or slows them down drastically - In addition, we have to be the aggressor in this game, thus we need the tempo advantage
    - BUG Midrange - Why are you leaving out Liliana in this MU? It's all about the grind and efficient answers / recursion and she offers both to us next to an additional win con. I would also not board in Flusterstorms and MC (if I think that my opp is only playing 1-2 TNNs (which is most likely the case)). (-4 FoW, -3 Daze, -1 Wasteland - +2 Liliana, +2 TS, +2 BB, +2 SP)
    - Omnitell / Sneak & Show - Why are you differentiating the boarding, where do you see the main differences?
    - Reanimator - I would cut Hymns and ADs further down to leave in TNNs as pitch and additional threat. Why have you left any of them in the deck?
    - Affinity - I would rather cut FoW / Daze instead of TNN as it is often a road block on the ground so we can focus our removal on flyers
    - Infect - I would board Liliana as well, maybe instead of Flusterstorm - Whilest infect can be very fast, after killing the first 1-2 threats it is mostly about keeping the board clear and the creatures small, which lili is excellent at. In addition, their pumps do nothing against her as the -2/-1 last to their turn and kills everything at end of turn
    - 4c Loam - Would keep in Edicts and not board TS (due to Chalice)
    - Merfolk - Would cut more FoW instead of TNN

    In total, I feel that you're underappriciating Daze a little bit too much, it is a powerful card in many MU and one of our core strenght having it available - Maybe you can share your thought on this as well?

    Looking forward to your feedback!

  7. #3007
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    -Miracle: surgical on terminus/stp, but this is only an idea....a STP + Snapcaster/STP can be GG.
    -Ant/Tes: abrupt decay for swarm,confidant,flowers,ground seal for examples
    -D&T: on the play Tourach, on the draw TS. The increase of BB can be a game loss. FOW in for GG-Spells(Gideon,CJ,Cataclysm,RIP out of Thalia).
    -Lands: TS only on the play, +1Fow +1Daze OTD.
    -Red Prison: I keep FPush only for Magus/Goblin fast.
    -Infect: this a fast deck...after 1-2 removals/counters a creature is enough to win.
    -Ub Shadow: in this matchup I need fast responses, but I've tested against this matchup only few times.
    -Grixis Delver: My deck becomes midrange in this matchup. I need to resolve all problems.
    -Combo decks: TNN is a bad choice in my opinion. Delver/Goyf/Angler are enough.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  8. #3008

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    How did your tournament go? Any lessons learned?

  9. #3009
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Storming_Dude View Post
    How did your tournament go? Any lessons learned?
    Big Tournament with 141 players. .......I was very unlucky in this tournament.

    Infect 2-0
    D&T 2-1
    Big Eldrazi 2-0
    D&T 2-0

    So, with 4-0 I've found an Elf:
    - G1: delver doesn't flip for 4 turns, with sylvan library T2....only lands/creatures on top...absurd! I've lost with my opponent at 3 life points and from the top he found natural order for Behemot
    - G2: a grindy match, because I had a flipped delver and he was at 3 life points...He had 4 elves and a dryad with 3 lands...I played seize and I've seen behemot/glimpse/2 elves/gea's cradle..discard glimpse...from the top he drew Heritage Druid and GG -.-

    Ant 2-1

    So, with 5-1 I've found another D&T:
    - G1: I had 2 goyfs 4/5 and 0 cards in hand, then my opponent 0 cards in hand and 0 creatures onto the battlefield...from the top 2 STP and 2 stoneforge...I drew 4 lands. GG
    - G2: He began with Mother + Thalia and I lost with only 2 lands and 3 decay/ 2casualties/2hope/1tnn in hand...incredible.

    5-2
    this game isn't for me...

    I was very embittered, so I would play for top16....Ant
    - G1: Combo T2 with discard
    - G2: Mulligan to 5... Combo T2 with discard
    GG.

    5-3 embarrassed.


    Pro&Cons:
    - Pros: The list seems solid.
    - Cons: I hate delver...the worst delver deck in order to flip delver.

    I will switch to control/midrange perhaps.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  10. #3010

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...assins-trophy/

    I think we’re back. The card looks insane even with Decay and Push already as format staples.

  11. #3011
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    New card doesn't do anything decay couldn't do.

    The deck that kicked bug out is DRS.

  12. #3012

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    New card doesn't do anything decay couldn't do.

    The deck that kicked bug out is DRS.
    Well, I have to disagree, the card handels Jace, Gideon and Teferi perfectly and gives us additional out against big creatures as Eldrazi or bigger Artifacts as Batterskull, something the deck is currently really struggling with - Nevertheless we have to see whether it is a real boost for the deck or just a situational upgrade for Abrupt Decay.

    Edit: It also upgrade our MU vs all Utility Lands Decks as it does hit lands - Lands, Depths, 12 Post, Eldrazi etc. will have a really rough time against BUG^^

    P.S.: Attented MKM Paris and went 6-3 with BUG Delver, will write a short report later.

  13. #3013

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    New card doesn't do anything decay couldn't do.

    The deck that kicked bug out is DRS.
    You can't ignore removal that destroys everything that Abrupt Decay doesn't because the deck's biggest problem is not being able.to answer threats it can normally only keep parity with like Gurmag Angler/Batterskull or worse. This easily fits the Diabolic Edict slot, or at the very worst is one of the most flexible SB cards you could possibly ask for.

    Card is nuts.

  14. #3014

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    You can't ignore removal that destroys everything that Abrupt Decay doesn't because the deck's biggest problem is not being able.to answer threats it can normally only keep parity with like Gurmag Angler/Batterskull or worse. This easily fits the Diabolic Edict slot, or at the very worst is one of the most flexible SB cards you could possibly ask for.

    Card is nuts.

    I agree, grixis had dreadbore style card to help vs PW/big creature, some played lilana's defeat, this lets BG have a 2 mana answer, but it is even more versatile, at the cost of the basic, which could be good or bad... Also, sometimes you can get them on land if they brainstormed and don't want to shuffle, rare but it could happen.


    Looking at this being 1-2 of, with 2-3 decay still being in Main.

  15. #3015
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Against another deck that doesn't play basic lands, this card also functions as Sinkhole.

    I would say that Assassin's Trophy is a fantastic flexible card. I expect to see a lot of it, and the return of some sort of BUG control deck to Tier 1.

    It also makes me wonder if they'll print a Vinidicate/Maelstrom Pulse sorcery that only costs 2 mana with no downside other than Sorcery speed.

  16. #3016

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    @toffee, I will soon try your list. Always been drawn to BUG colors and especially this deck (although now without the powerplays of DRS). Although a bit of bad luck, your report looks like it played quite well. Any other changes you would make?

  17. #3017

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    After few locals i decide to share with u my list which went quite good.
    After shaman exile from Legacy i run le doffrent shell. For now i am playing this:
    4 Nimble mangoose
    4 delver of secret
    2 true name nemesis

    4 fow
    4 daze
    4 stifle
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    4 thoughtseize
    2 HTT
    2 abrupt
    2 fatal push
    1 Dismember
    1 Liliana od last hope

    4wasteland
    3 underground sea
    1 bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    1 island
    1 swamp
    4 połkniesz delta
    2 mosty rainforest
    2 verdant catacomb

    30spells to fluo delver. Maximmum disrupt - we can ruin mana base opponent by stifle and wasteland, discard their hands, counter threads and cast triublemaker creature which cant be touched.

    2 dread of Night
    1 bitterblossom
    1 Liliana od last hope
    2 diabolic edict
    2 surgical extraction
    1 toxic delunge
    1 pithing needle
    1 red elemental blast
    1 Dismember
    1 sylvan library
    1 life from the loam
    1 explosives

    After new release i am thinking to -2 push -1 Dismember and add 3x trophy to ruin their basic ka ds if they run on single basic and more land disrupt.

  18. #3018
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I'm pretty interested in this Assassin's Trophy card. It's ability to actually deal with that goddamned stupid zombie fish while also breaking up Thespian's Stage/Dark Depths decks and ALSO being able to sinkhole at instant speed makes me think that it's super versatile enough to justify the 2 mana cost.

    This led me to the following "value" delver list, similar to the BURG lists that were being played in early-mid 2016; except this time you're not just stone cold dead to a delve threat, nor are you forced into a 4th colour to kill a Planeswalker. I could see an argument about replacing the Snares and Pierces with discard spells but I think counters are much better against Grixis Control, Miracles and the mirror.

    //Creature (12)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    //Instant (22)
    3 Assassin's Trophy
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare

    //Sorcery (6)
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Night's Whisper
    4 Ponder

    //Land (20)
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    SB: 1 Bitterblossom
    SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Golgari Charm
    SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
    SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    SB: 1 Null Rod
    SB: 1 Painful Truths
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 3 Thoughtseize

    It's not all upside the mana curve looks like total ass:
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  19. #3019
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    A problem I see is that Assassin's Trophy makes your opponent mana ramp. So I think daze and even more the Pierce slots lose efficiency, while I would certainly value snare. Maybe though AT will be better in a delverless midrange shell...

  20. #3020

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    So I've been playing Grixis Tempo for a small lifetime now and with the coming of Assassin's Trophy I feel like changing to BUG since it will have literly all awnsers within it's colors now, next to having the most annoying options of creatures for the opponent to deal with.

    I've been thinking of the following list and wonder what people here think of it.
    I'm a bit unsure about the 2/2/3 split with removal. I'm used to 2 Push/4 Bolt from Grixis, so changing to 2 mana-removal is a bit painfull but proberly worth it.

    Creatures: 9
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Delver of Secrets
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    Enchantments: 3
    2 Bitterblossom
    1 Mirri's Guile

    Counter: 10
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce

    Removal/disrupt: 11
    4 Stifle
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Assassin's Trophy

    Draw: 8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Lands: 19
    4 Wasteland
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta

    Sideboard:
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Darkblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Divert
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Life from the Loam

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