[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Asthereal]

Hi guys,

First of all, let me thank you for the insight shared in this thread. All this information makes it much easier to pick up BUG as a new deck and start piloting it properly.

I was wondering why we aren't running 1-2 Gurmag Angler, like the Grixis lists are doing. I agree that we are relatively low on cantrips compared to them, since we are usually lacking Probe, but isn't the 1 mana cost significantly better than the 2 black required for Tombstalker?

TY

The biggest question for your flex slot creatures is: "what matchup do you want to improve?" Tombstalker improves Jund and Elves, which are (very) loseable matchups. Angler is better against decks that attack your mana base, and decks that require us to leave mana open during their turn, like combo.

For me personally: I decided to run neither, since Rest in Peace already hurts us pretty badly. Right now I consider Dark Confidant (for Miracles), Clique (combo) and True-Name Nemesis (reliable beater). I chose the latter for the last two tourneys, but didn't get to use him very often.

[Jaytron]

The biggest question for your flex slot creatures is: "what matchup do you want to improve?" Tombstalker improves Jund and Elves, which are (very) loseable matchups. Angler is better against decks that attack your mana base, and decks that require us to leave mana open during their turn, like combo.

For me personally: I decided to run neither, since Rest in Peace already hurts us pretty badly. Right now I consider Dark Confidant (for Miracles), Clique (combo) and True-Name Nemesis (reliable beater). I chose the latter for the last two tourneys, but didn't get to use him very often.

What does your list/sb look like? I kinda want to try Bobs

[Asthereal]

What does your list/sb look like? I kinda want to try Bobs

Bad news: as I mentioned, I didn't run Bob yet.
My list right now is as follows (but not yet optimized):

Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis /14

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Hymn to Tourach.
1 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Liliana of the Veil /27

Lands:
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland /20 -total: 61

Sideboard:
3 Stifle (trying not to lose against Shardless and Miracles)
3 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
3 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor /15

Yup that's 61 cards. I really want my 20th land, I really want my 14th guy, I didn't want to drop my 13th turn one play and I wanted two slots main deck that help with the Eldrazi popularity thingy (Dismember and Lily). This added up to the above.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm playing Team America at the 1:00 side event at GP Albuquerque. I'll post my list after.

[meffeo]

I'm playing Team America at the 1:00 side event at GP Albuquerque. I'll post my list after.

Good luck, mate.

Anyone tried Invasive Surgery of SOI? I'm used to have an Envelop effect in my board and it looks like an upgraded version, even if delirium could be complicated to reach when playing against deck where the Surgery should shine (Ant comes first to my mind).

[Asthereal]

I'm playing Team America at the 1:00 side event at GP Albuquerque. I'll post my list after.

Go get 'em!

I failed during my last tourney, playing the list above.

[Mat]

Hello guys, went 4-0 with this list (by Jim Davis) in my local game store. My matchs were: RUG Delver, Pox, ANT, Reanimator. Got tired of playing Bayou in a deck with daze, and moved to the Stifle version. I'm really enjoying it, playing the same list as Jim Davis just to know what the deck is about, then I will look forward to make my own version. If anyone want to know about my tests, or the matchups, feel free to ask.

Creatures (16)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis
Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
2 Disfigure
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
Lands (18)
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
1 Dread of Night
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Baleful Strix
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Null Rod
1 Winter Orb
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Force of Will

[DaDitka]

Goddik, congrats on your Ovino top 8!

I noticed you cut Lilianas from the mainboard and was wondering what your reasoning was?

I had tried your build again last week, and it went well, the threat base felt great. Lilly went from being excellent to not so good, depending on matchup, I thought about shaving one to sb, but didn't think about cutting her completely.

Also, the Ovino site doesn't seem to have SBS up? Woukd you be willing to share your SB please?

[DaDitka]

Never mind!

I guess the SB didn't show up on my phone screen.

I am still curious how you felt about not having Lilliana?

Also, how was invasive surgery and winter orb for you?

[Goddik]

Hi guys

Grazi Grazi

The changes came about as a theorycrafted attempt to beat lands, while still providing a strong anti miracles package. I went 3-0 against lands on the weekend, so i guess it was moderately sucessfull. I did loose my one match against miracles though :-(

Surgery + orb can handle their loam engine, while submerge + needle can shut down their combo. This worked decently well in the games i played. I vividly remember a game i played early orb against lands, and he literally timewalked himself whenever he tried to do something (including using maze). Another game he didnt have punishing fires, i played 2 delvers and countered his loam 4 times while they killed him. In another game i managed to sneak a win with submerger + extirpating his loam

Sylvan is btw also excellent against lands, as it helps you find the pieces, and i 2 times took 8-12 damage of of it to dig

The switch to 4 ponders was an attempt to make sure i could hit delirium on surgery, and is a change i am not a fan of. The deck can definately get ponder flooded, and i think the fact that i had 3-4 ponders in one miracles match, rather then 2 ponders and a bomb was certainly a factor. Going forward i will likely play painful truths in one of these slots as an alternative that i can chuck in my gravyard fast, but still provides a bomb against miracles.

Liliana was always the most mediocre card in the deck, and mostly there to provide a different angle against miracles. I now think i should have been playing 2x library all along. That card is simply excellent, and does the same thing much better. as per above these slots will now be 1x painful truths (experimental) and 1x library

Spike and I also talked at the event about the option to run some hate for grixis delver/eldrazi, but we dont really think we have room (miracles, lands and creature matchups are the priorities) and the submerges ave proven their worth time and time again. If we find room these would most likely be gurmag anglers, but could also be strix/dismember/4th tarmogoyf

[btm10]

Hi guys

Grazi Grazi

The changes came about as a theorycrafted attempt to beat lands, while still providing a strong anti miracles package. I went 3-0 against lands on the weekend, so i guess it was moderately sucessfull. I did loose my one match against miracles though :-(

Surgery + orb can handle their loam engine, while submerge + needle can shut down their combo. This worked decently well in the games i played. I vividly remember a game i played early orb against lands, and he literally timewalked himself whenever he tried to do something (including using maze). Another game he didnt have punishing fires, i played 2 delvers and countered his loam 4 times while they killed him. In another game i managed to sneak a win with submerger + extirpating his loam

Sylvan is btw also excellent against lands, as it helps you find the pieces, and i 2 times took 8-12 damage of of it to dig

The switch to 4 ponders was an attempt to make sure i could hit delirium on surgery, and is a change i am not a fan of. The deck can definately get ponder flooded, and i think the fact that i had 3-4 ponders in one miracles match, rather then 2 ponders and a bomb was certainly a factor. Going forward i will likely play painful truths in one of these slots as an alternative that i can chuck in my gravyard fast, but still provides a bomb against miracles.

Liliana was always the most mediocre card in the deck, and mostly there to provide a different angle against miracles. I now think i should have been playing 2x library all along. That card is simply excellent, and does the same thing much better. as per above these slots will now be 1x painful truths (experimental) and 1x library

Spike and I also talked at the event about the option to run some hate for grixis delver/eldrazi, but we dont really think we have room (miracles, lands and creature matchups are the priorities) and the submerges ave proven their worth time and time again. If we find room these would most likely be gurmag anglers, but could also be strix/dismember/4th tarmogoyf

I've been bouncing between Shardless, TA, 4c Loam, and 4c Delver for my GP and Eternal Extravaganza testing lately, but I seem to be narrowing the field to Shardless or TA for the events (there's still a small chance for Loam).

My TA list is your starting 60 from the BoM, -2 Liliana, -1 Tombstalker, -1 Clique, +1 Goyf, +1 Ponder, +1 Dismember, +1 Sylvan Library. Dismember has been excellent and I haven't missed the second MD Clique (it's in the board), though I definitely want to make room for the second Tombstalker again as it's by far the best threat. I have flooded on manipulation once or twice, but I'm hesitant to cut a Ponder, even after testing (and being happy with) a Spell Pierce. I could see cutting the fourth Goyf as well, ideally for an Artifact, Enchantment, or Planeswalker to make growing the remaining Goyfs easier, which is relevant against Grixis and Eldrazi. I landed on MD Sylvan after initially testing Painful Truths in the slot, but went with Sylvan because it's floor (passive filtering) is higher than the floor on Painful Truths (2B to draw 1, which is typically only relevant in matchups where it gets boarded out) and because of 2 vs. 3 mana. It may be worth testing again though. My sideboard is more substantially different, largely for metagame reasons and to accommodate some of the MD changes.

[Jaytron]

Hi guys

Grazi Grazi

The changes came about as a theorycrafted attempt to beat lands, while still providing a strong anti miracles package. I went 3-0 against lands on the weekend, so i guess it was moderately sucessfull. I did loose my one match against miracles though :-(

Surgery + orb can handle their loam engine, while submerge + needle can shut down their combo. This worked decently well in the games i played. I vividly remember a game i played early orb against lands, and he literally timewalked himself whenever he tried to do something (including using maze). Another game he didnt have punishing fires, i played 2 delvers and countered his loam 4 times while they killed him. In another game i managed to sneak a win with submerger + extirpating his loam

Sylvan is btw also excellent against lands, as it helps you find the pieces, and i 2 times took 8-12 damage of of it to dig

The switch to 4 ponders was an attempt to make sure i could hit delirium on surgery, and is a change i am not a fan of. The deck can definately get ponder flooded, and i think the fact that i had 3-4 ponders in one miracles match, rather then 2 ponders and a bomb was certainly a factor. Going forward i will likely play painful truths in one of these slots as an alternative that i can chuck in my gravyard fast, but still provides a bomb against miracles.

Liliana was always the most mediocre card in the deck, and mostly there to provide a different angle against miracles. I now think i should have been playing 2x library all along. That card is simply excellent, and does the same thing much better. as per above these slots will now be 1x painful truths (experimental) and 1x library

Spike and I also talked at the event about the option to run some hate for grixis delver/eldrazi, but we dont really think we have room (miracles, lands and creature matchups are the priorities) and the submerges ave proven their worth time and time again. If we find room these would most likely be gurmag anglers, but could also be strix/dismember/4th tarmogoyf

Congrats on your finish!

I know you did this for your last build, Goddik, but when you have a chance can you go over SB choices vs top matchups again with this new build?

Glad to see you beat lands 3 matches :O

[downtoonelife]

My deck list yesterday, I made some adjustment in the SB for our local meta. I finished 4th out of 23 players. I had a round 1 bye, 2 wins (Miracles, Eldrazi MUD), a lose (Esper Mentor CB) and a draw (Burn) after swiss.

4 Delver of Secret
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacomb (I only own 1 Misty)
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
Sb:
1 Tundra
3 Path to Exile
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Winter Orb
1 Spirit Loop
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 True-Name Nemesis

I won over Esper Mentor in 3 games during the QF and then lost to Burn in 3 games in the Semis (In our second game I had a TNN with Spirit Loop in play). Our meta compose of - 3 Miracle variant decks, 2 Lands, 1 Nic Fit, 2 Burn, 1 OmniTell, 2 Infect, 2 Grixis Delver, 1 Alluren, 1 Shardless BUG, 1 GB Pox, 1 Team America, 1 Deathblade, 3 Eldrazi/MUD variants, 1 Reanimator, 1 Death and Taxes. Top 8 were - Deathblade (Champion), Burn (2nd), Death and Taxes (3rd), Team America (4th), Reanimator, Grixis Delver, Esper Mentor and Lands.

[o_boogie]

@Goddik

Congrats on your recent success with the deck. I really like your list from Ovino and plan to start playing it at my local game shop. I was wondering if you could discuss how you sideboard with this list on both the play and draw against shardless, aggro loam, grixis delver, rug delver, and the mirror. Thank you.

[Goddik]

@Goddik

Congrats on your recent success with the deck. I really like your list from Ovino and plan to start playing it at my local game shop. I was wondering if you could discuss how you sideboard with this list on both the play and draw against shardless, aggro loam, grixis delver, rug delver, and the mirror. Thank you.

Have a look back in the thread, there should be a guide with the old list along with philosophy in the matchups. That should let you deduce it. It hasnt really changed in nay of the matchups above

[Kl'rt]

The switch to 4 ponders was an attempt to make sure i could hit delirium on surgery, and is a change i am not a fan of. The deck can definately get ponder flooded, and i think the fact that i had 3-4 ponders in one miracles match, rather then 2 ponders and a bomb was certainly a factor. Going forward i will likely play painful truths in one of these slots as an alternative that i can chuck in my gravyard fast, but still provides a bomb against miracles.

Liliana was always the most mediocre card in the deck, and mostly there to provide a different angle against miracles. I now think i should have been playing 2x library all along. That card is simply excellent, and does the same thing much better. as per above these slots will now be 1x painful truths (experimental) and 1x library

My experience with this deck is that it's much harder to naturally flip a Delver without Brainstorm or Ponder compared to Grixis Delver and Canadian Thresh since those two decks typically run more instants and sorceries (about 30) than this one. I notice your build runs even fewer instants and sorceries and now you're considering cutting another sorcery for an enchantment.

Don't you have any concerns with decreasing your chances to flip Delvers even more?

[El_Drazi_Landscaping]

Hey guys,

I've been slowly breaking into legacy for about a year and a half now (I'm young and don't have a real job yet, so this format is quite expensive for me). I've been playing a UB Death's Shadow Delver deck, but I'm thinking of making it into a BUG Death's Shadow deck that runs like traditional BUG Delver, except Death's Shadow serves the role of Tarmogoyf. I really enjoy grindy games and feel like BUG colors grind it out with the best of them. Here's my list, do you guys think I should go for it?

Land:
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand (I know these aren't the right color fetches, but I already own them and can get the right ones down the road.)
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
2x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Wasteland

Creatures:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Death's Shadow
2x Tombstalker

Non-creature Spells:
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Thoughtseize
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Ponder / Gitaxian Probe (Haven't settled on this one yet, but leaning towards Ponder)
2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Dismember
1x Sylvan Library

Sideboard:
Not sure yet, open to all suggestions. I'll probably just look through here to find out what common cards are used and use them. I should have most things from my UB list and can add things like Golgari Charm.

Here are some of the questions I have:

1) What are your guy's general opinions on this deck?

2) Is 18 land too little? I've seen some lists playing 18 but some playing 20 so I guess there really isn't a stock number?

3) How does the rest of the deck look? Should I increase the number of a card or get rid of a card etc...?)

Thanks for reading and thank you for any help!

[downtoonelife]

Played last night the same list I used last May 1 and I end up with a 4-0 record.

Round 1 vs Eldrazi Moon 2-1
Game 1: Controlled the game with Wasteland, Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach. Delver and Shaman killed him.
Game 2: He played Blood Moon turn 1 and I concede.
Game 3: Controlled him again same as game 1. Tarmogoyf killed him.

Round 2 vs Miracles 2-0
Game 1: He was stuck with 3 lands and I had an aggro hand - Shaman, Delver and Tarmogoyf killed him.
Game 2: We both manage to answer every threat we play. He Terminus my Shaman and Delver, Swords my Tarmogoyf, I Abrupt his Counterbalance, discarded his Jace. I manage to resolve a Sylvan Library and it help me sculpt my hand. He later Entreat the Angel for 3 but I already have Maelstrom Pulse in my hand to kill them. He had no cards in hand when I played a 6/7 Goyf. He was down to 6 when I played Pithing Needle naming Jace and on his turn he draw Jace hehe He died after.

Round 3 vs ANT 2-1
Game 1: Thoughtseize, Hymn and Liliana emptied his hand. Shaman and 2 Delver finished him.
Game 2: I Surgical his LED but he manage to cast Ad Naus and killed me naturally with a Tendrils that he got from Ad Naus.
Game 3: He Tendrils me for 5 and then Empty with 12 tokens on the same turn. I was down to 5 and he's at 24 after but I already have Golgari Charm on top of my library that I setup for my Delver in play. Delver flip killed his tokens. He has no cards in hand. Delver, 3 Shaman and a 3/4 Goyf killed him.

Round 4 vs Eldrazi MUD 2-0
Game 1: Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach controlled him. After I Thoughtseize him he was left with 1 Glimmervoid, 1 Tabernacle, 1 Wurmcoil and 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and I luckily discarded the Wurmcoil and Ulamog with my Hymn on the next turn. Killed him with my 5/6 Goyf. He never manage to drop any creature.
Game 2: I was stuck with a Sea and 2 Wasteland that I can't use because he Pithing Needled them. I had a Deathrite Shaman but no lands in the graveyard. I was already Brainstorm lock twice and never found a green mana source for my Goyf. Luckily I manage to discard his creature with Thoughtseize. I had a Delver 1 time together with my Deathrite but he killed them with All is Dust. Eventually I had 2 Delver in play that killed him. He had no threat in play.


I still love my list even though in some games I got lucky. Will keep playing the same list. My prize on this tourney is an "I.O.U." 2 EMA booster packs. I can't wait for the spoilers.

[Homason]

Lets bring this Threat back to Life

Played a few Tournaments with Goddicks List.

I ended Up:

4-1 Losing to Infect: He killed me t2 with fow backup 2 times
3-0
4-0
6-2 Losing to Ant and Elves (Elves were very unlucky..)
2-2 Drop. Losing the Mirror ( I made a minor Mistake) and Shardless ( 3 Visions, 4 decay, 3 Strix 2 Disfigure in Game 3 :-D )
5-0

I changed some slots from Tourney to Tourney. In the last Local I played the following 75 and tried 19 Lands:

Creatures [14]

1 Tombstalker
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets

Instants [18]

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure

Sorceries [8]

1 Painful Truths
3 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach

Lands [19]

1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

Sb

1 Pithing Needle
1 Winter Orb
1 Painful Truth
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Spell Pierce
2 Invasive Surgery
1 Sylvan Library
2 Submerge
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm

I will go back to 20 Lands because I had trouble using my Drs and play my Spells during several Turns.
Iam going to cut a Disfigure in the MD while iam unsure which card will be thrown out from the sb to get some Space for the third Submerge.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I have also played around with HJ's list on Magic Online, here are some of my conclusions:

#theweeklywars #11 — Team America

I also realise there's a seperate thread for Delverless lists, but I think the benefits of this list is worth discussing here as well: Team America by pow22, top four in the May Legacy Challenge on Magic Online.