[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[TheHeff]

@carnifex: Thanks for the tourney write-up! I'm a newer TA player myself so it's always nice to get the perspective of someone that's taken the deck to the tournament level. Sorry about your two win-and-ins, but congrats on your success overall!

I have a quick write-up from my weekly legacy Tuesday, overall it wasn't a great showing but I hit some tough matchups (and lost the die roll in all 3 matches), and am always looking to tweak my deck (see sig). As always, I'd love comments on my sideboarding choices since I'm fairly new to the legacy format in general, not just TA. Thanks in advance!

Round 1: Sneak and Show (0-2)
I hit this same player last week and went 2-0 so while it's not a favorable MU, I know it's winnable against this pilot (just seems very draw dependant). Game 1 I kept a balanced hand with a good mix of lands, threats, and disruption. I cast hymn T2 (on the draw) and it gets spell pierced instantly, so I knew he was likely holding all the pieces he needed to go off next turn. I had a FoW and daze in hand, so I was dead if he had countermagic, which he did and S&T'd an Emrakul into play. Basically Liliana or bust at that point. Draw wasn't her, so on to SB games:

IN: Flusterstorm, 3x Spell Pierce, 1x Sylvan Library, 2x V-Clique
OUT: 2x Abrupt Decay, 4x Tarmogoyf, 1x Bayou

In hindsight, I needed the Golgari Charms for Blood Moon and Sneak Attack, so I probably should've cut the other 2 decays for those 2 charms. Game 2 I resolved an early thoughtseize to take his S&T and a hymn for further disruption, he drew into another S&T but I had 2 FoWs and 2 Dazes in hand, so it didn't resolve (although he did have the pierce to force the second FoW). The pivotal turn was when I tapped my green source to play DRS and he dropped Blood Moon next turn even though I had the Decay in hand. I really needed to get something on board to pressure him, I was just a little unlucky. I managed to exile a land to cast a second DRS with hopes of generating the mana I needed for Decay, but he dropped a second Moon that turn. Died quickly after to a Griselbrand and Emrakul with Sneak Attack.

Round 2: TA Mirror (2-1)
My opponent isn't a very frequent attender of the Tues events so it's actually the first time I've played the mirror. G1 I was OTD but managed to have a DRS, goyf, and 2 delvers on board around T5 and he just scooped, on to SB games:

IN: 2x Disfigure, 1x Sylvan Library, 2x V-Clique, 3x Spell Pierce
OUT: 4x FoW, 4x Daze

Not sure if this configuration is right, but I went with it. G2 was a super grindfest compared to G1 with both of us decaying and Liliana'ing like crazy. I eventually brick a couple of turns while he has Confidant out, I manage to clear his board (with mine clear too) and he drops a goyf. I draw Liliana for the turn but he Cliques and buries it, then hits me for the win next turn. G3 was also grindy but I had the Library and was able to pull out the win. Overall, really fun games- lots of interaction, very swingy, 10/10 would be excited to play this MU again :).

Round 3: The Gate (0-2)
I knew what this guy was playing, as he's a frequent player on Tues. For those of you not familiar with the deck, it's a mono-black control deck with Lilianas, Hymns, Thoughtseizes, Cabal Therapies, Vampire Nighthawk, Phyrexian Obliterator, Gatekeeper of Malakir, that sort of thing. G1 he resolved an early top (a 1-of, I found out) that allowed him to eventually pull out the win, even though he dropped 3 Bitterblossoms (all of which got decayed) but was eventually beat down by 2 Faerie tokens and a Confidant not being able to keep a creature on the table.

IN: 2x Golgari Charm, Null Rod, 3x Spell Pierce, 1x Sylvan Library, 2x V-Clique
OUT: 3x Hymn, 2x Thoughtseize, 4x FoW

I'm not sure if it's correct but I figure his deck is built around discard with a full set of Lilis and sac effects, so he'll be more resistant to this type strategy. Overall I'd need to playtest this MU a bit more, but I wanted to eliminate my discard and FoW (since I don't really want to be 2-for-1'ing). Still, it doesn't seem like a great matchup for us...he had 8 maindeck edict effects so keeping creatures on the table was extremely difficult.


A few deckbuilding questions:
I see a lot more people running the 19 land version, do you find you really miss that final land against Wasteland decks? My meta is mostly combo so it might be right to cut a fetch, but there are also two consistent RUG players there and it's a scary concept. The maindeck Sylvan Library was insane, it's definitely staying it- I'm still trying to find the happy medium between drawing too many cards and too few cards (sometimes you just have to take 8 to clear the top of your deck), but the power of the card is insane. A second in the SB might be overkill, however. I'm thinking I might include a Pithing Needle as a good catch-all answer to bad matchups. Clique was a great card for me and since I'm playing the 12 creature version, I'm considering bringing one Clique MD and maybe trading one Liliana. She's a great card (and would take the SB place of the Clique) but it's either trim 1 of her, trim 1 land, or go to 4 hymn instead of 3 hymn/2 thoughtseize, but I've really been liking TS as a card. 1 CMC (which is big for this deck) plus hand information for 2 life, not a bad deal. Plus if you T1 land -> DRS, T2 land, you can TS then hymn to take their best card and increase your chances for hitting their land. It's a super broken turn. I'm really liking the 3/2 split so far (plus more spells = better chance at delver flip, which is always a little shaky with this deck).

Any comments/thoughts on my list? Again see my sig below for the full list!

[wcm8]

I would recommend the following changes to your sideboard:

-1 spell pierce
-1 maelstrom pulse
-1 vendilion clique

+1 maelstrom pulse
+1 envelop
+1 disfigure or some other removal spell

[Purgatory]

This is what I'm working on right now, designed to prey on the diverse, but leaning towards the fair side, metagame that I play regularly in. Small local coming up on monday.

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Dismember
1 Liliana of the Veil


SB:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Krosan Grip
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod

[grizzlegrizzle]

I can see you being very unlucky in this round. Game two was the best game by you and even there your draws were under medicore. This just happens sometimes in magic that your deck refuses to play with you and doesn't give you anything you want.

Yea the draw in g3 was abysmal, but it happens. I was actually really happy with my opener in g2. I had DRS, Null rod, FOW + Blue card, and ponder so i would snap keep it in this m/u every time.

For the Invitational this weekend I'm splitting 1/1 Clique/Stalker main so that i can play the 3rd golgari charm in the SB.

[Barbed Blightning]

This is what I'm working on right now, designed to prey on the diverse, but leaning towards the fair side, metagame that I play regularly in. Small local coming up on monday.

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Dismember
1 Liliana of the Veil


SB:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Krosan Grip
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod

drop a FoW to the board for another maindeck Lilly. I also prefer Sylvan in the main.

(Sent from my phone, please ignore typos and grammar errors)

[o_boogie]

Anyone got any advice for sideboarding against Shardless BUG with the following list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
9 Fetches
4 Wasteland

SB:
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge

My current sideboard plan is:
On the play ==> -4 Force of Will, +3 Disfigure, 1+ Spell Pierce
On the draw ==> -2 Daze, -2 Force of Will, +3 Disfigure, 1+ Spell Pierce

The Disfigures are for their Deathrite Shamans or to break a Tarmogoyf stalemate. The Spell Pierce is to counter either planeswalkers or expensive removal spells (e.g., Maelstrom Pulse or Toxic Deluge).

I am not set on this sideboard plan as it has not worked out too well. Any advice with respect to this or the matchup in general would be greatly appreciated.

[shadowhunter007]

Hi all (and Dragonslayer, its Chris from Jersey)

Sorry boogle, I don't have much experience playing against Shardless BUG but can comment generally on what I think the matchup is like. In this case, you sort of want to be the aggro-ish deck since if the game goes long, your cards such as delver and spell pierce will only get worse while their incremental card advantage will only grow. Bringing cards in like disfigure is not the greatest as that will only allow you to conditionally 1-for-1 with an opponent that is trying to 2-for-1 you at every opportunity. Therefore, the more cards you can board in to make that aggressive plan more successful that can also potentially 2-for-1 your opponent or at least get rid of a powerful permanent, the better.

+1 vendilion cliques to flash in to get rid of planeswalkers
+1 needle against planeswalkers
+1or2 golgari charm to get rid of baleful strix and also potentially re-gen your tarmo's/delver in response to a Decay (not sure of the value here, again haven't played the matchup too often). It would seem that given your build, your best option is to go through the air with your Tombstalker/Delver rather than trying to get through on the ground and clearing the air along with re-gen seems good.

Others who have played that matchup more can possibly chime in here.

As far as what I'm looking at, the more I play the Death & Taxes Matchup, the more that I don't like it... I could use some commentary.

At the moment, I've got 2 disfigure main

Here's the sideboard tech that I bring in against it:
1 Null Rod
1 Krosan Grip
1 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle
2 Goglari Charm

Generally side out all my Force/Daze but I feel like it just devolves into a top-deck war and whoever gets the better cards just wins. I'm something like 0-5 against the deck recently in the last few months and at this point am starting to think maybe it's me... Should I be siding out discard/liliana here instead of Counters to avoid wilt-lief liege (the cause of one or two of the losses). Should I also be bringing in Engineered Plague on Human (another card in my SB) or what other things can I do to make this matchup better? There's a lot of it in my current local meta (in addition to maverick, which plays similarly)

The good news is that I'm not as afraid of the Imperial Painter or Miracles matchup after playing those... I'm something like 3-2 vs Painter and 3-1 against miracles so far.

[Dragonslayer_90]

Hi all (and Dragonslayer, its Chris from Jersey)

The more I play the Death & Taxes Matchup, the more that I don't like it...

At the moment, I've got 2 disfigure main

Here's the sideboard tech that I bring in against it:
1 Null Rod
1 Krosan Grip
1 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle
2 Goglari Charm

Generally side out all my Force/Daze but I feel like it just devolves into a top-deck war and whoever gets the better cards just wins. I'm something like 0-5 against the deck recently in the last few months and at this point am starting to think maybe it's me... Should I be siding out discard/liliana here instead of Counters to avoid wilt-lief liege (the cause of one or two of the losses). Should I also be bringing in Engineered Plague on Human (another card in my SB) or what other things can I do to make this matchup better? There's a lot of it in my current local meta (in addition to maverick, which plays similarly)

The good news is that I'm not as afraid of the Imperial Painter or Miracles matchup after playing those... I'm something like 3-2 vs Painter and 3-1 against miracles so far.

Hey Chris,

Hope all is well with you and your bro! I would like to see the rest of your list to see what you're working with. Are you playing the similar threat heavy one you ran at Somerset? Thalia decks in general can be rough and swingy for this deck. It is really is play/draw dependent, though I'd say it's still only 55-45 in their favor if you've played Team America for a while. In playing Team the strategy I've gotten used to in facing those decks is playing removal the gathering essentially. I've also gotten into a habit of having to Force of Wills on the draw. This may not be correct with your list since you seem to have so much removal in your 75, but my list does not have as much hate for those decks as yours. Thus, I like having the option to counter devastating Turn One plays like Aether Vial or Mother of Runes when on the draw.

[wcm8]

Anyone got any advice for sideboarding against Shardless BUG

Putting In:
+3 Disfigure (kill early DRS)
+1 Pithing Needle (naming Jace, or Liliana/Creeping Tarpit in a desperate board state. Yes I am aware of them running Abrupt Decay, but it's easier to cast needle whenever than it is to properly time your singleton Spell Pierce)
+1 Vendilion Clique (to deal with Jace and Liliana, as well as just being a good attacker)
+1 Liliana of the Veil (more removal is always welcome)
and MAYBE +1/2 Golgari Charm (counters abrupt decay, destroys Sylvan Library, if they run Baleful Strix this will clear the board of them)

Taking Out:
-4 FoW (you don't want to fight them on the stack)
-2-4 Daze or maybe Hymn (see above. Although Hymn is also iffy on the draw sometimes.)

This matchup is tough, but with some luck you can get there.

[CronoSabre]

Just picked up BUG Delver this week. I understand this deck can be built in many ways, so I'm finding it difficult to come up with an decent list by myself.

I haven't played with Hymn to Tourach much, but I feel more comfortable with Thoughtseize instead because I have control over what card it takes. Without Hymn, the mana base can be a bit more stable as well. Can this deck perform fine against a large field without Hymn? Is it a mistake to not play it?

Here is what I'm working with at the moment, I'd really appreciate some feedback on it.

[ 14 creatures ]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

[ 19 instants ]
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will

[ 8 sorceries ]
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize

[ 19 lands ]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

[ 15 sideboard ]
2 Duress
2 Envelop
3 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Null Rod
3 Surgical Extraction

[Esper3k]

Just picked up BUG Delver this week. I understand this deck can be built in many ways, so I'm finding it difficult to come up with an decent list by myself.

I haven't played with Hymn to Tourach much, but I feel more comfortable with Thoughtseize instead because I have control over what card it takes. Without Hymn, the mana base can be a bit more stable as well. Can this deck perform fine against a large field without Hymn? Is it a mistake to not play it?

Here is what I'm working with at the moment, I'd really appreciate some feedback on it.

[ 14 creatures ]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

[ 19 instants ]
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will

[ 8 sorceries ]
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize

[ 19 lands ]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

[ 15 sideboard ]
2 Duress
2 Envelop
3 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Null Rod
3 Surgical Extraction

I'm a fan of Hymn. It's a way for us to gain card advantage (something Delver decks tend to lack) while disrupting our opponents a the same time. That being said, if your meta is chock full of SFM and combo, the Thoughtseizes can be better.

I also think you have too much yard hate in your board, but again, a meta call.

[Purgatory]

drop a FoW to the board for another maindeck Lilly. I also prefer Sylvan in the main.

(Sent from my phone, please ignore typos and grammar errors)

I also like Library in the main, and I think I'll swap it and Dismember for the time being. Having extra removal in the board isn't bad in my metagame, where we do have our fair share of Deathrite Shamans, Delvers, Stoneforge Mystics, Bobs, Moms etc. etc.

I was pondering cutting a Force, but I'm not convinced. I play my fair share of unfair decks in any given tournament here. If I was to cut one, it'd probably be to add another Thoughtseize before going to two Lillys though.

[shadowhunter007]

Here's my current build:

MAIN DECK
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Ponder
1 True-Name Nemesis
4 Daze
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
3 Force of Will
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Disfigure
1 Sylvan Library

1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacomb
3 Misty Rainforest

SIDEBOARD
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Golgari Charm
1 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Krosan Grip
1 Force of Will
1 Massacre
1 Engineered Plague
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle

Looking for some commentary on sideboarding (both cards i may be missing and how to) and play against Death & Taxes (and secondarily Maverick). General commentary on sideboard for a general meta and how to tweak would also be appreciated. Recent changes to the main include adding the Sylvan Library and cutting a Tarmogoyf, cut a 3rd Bob and 2nd TNN for 2 Disfigures in the main to assist in the Fair Matchups and lower my curve slightly.

Against D&T, I generally side as follows:
+2 Golgari Charm
+1 Clique
+1 Grip
+1 Massacre
+1 Deluge
+1 Null Rod
+1 Needle
-3 Force
-4 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Hymn

[Barbed Blightning]

I also like Library in the main, and I think I'll swap it and Dismember for the time being. Having extra removal in the board isn't bad in my metagame, where we do have our fair share of Deathrite Shamans, Delvers, Stoneforge Mystics, Bobs, Moms etc. etc.

I was pondering cutting a Force, but I'm not convinced. I play my fair share of unfair decks in any given tournament here. If I was to cut one, it'd probably be to add another Thoughtseize before going to two Lillys though.

Lilly has only been fantastic in my experience. I'd run 3 if I wasn't so crazy about Tombstalker.

She's slow, yes, and by all means not a Tempo card, but I like the mid/late game advantage she gives us. Just the other day I used Hymn (my last card in hand) and her +1 to wipe out my Deathblade opponent's hand, effectively ending the game for him by turn 4.

Thoughtseize, I will admit, probably has more practical uses, but the bombiness of Lilly (coupled with the powerhouse of DRS and the synergy of Daze/Waste) is why I play the deck. She's also great vs Miracles.

(Sent from my phone, please ignore typos and grammar errors)

[Zombie]

@wcm8, tried your build tonight(- envelop, swamp + fluster pierce). Felt really good, Found proper outs on time. Shardless was a house.

[wcm8]

@wcm8, tried your build tonight(- envelop, swamp + fluster pierce). Felt really good, Found proper outs on time. Shardless was a house.

Yeah, it's nice being able to cut 12 cards and bring in 12 more, making the deck play like a really good midrange deck.

Example of sideboarding, against DnT or Goblins:
-4 Hymn
-4 Daze
-4 FoW

+3 Shardless
+3 Disfigure
+3 Golgari Charm (right now I am playing the 3rd Charm, although this could instead be a Darkblast or whatever)
+1 Clique
+1 Null Rod (for equipment and Aether Vial, Goblins often sides in Relic of Progenitus)
+1 Maelstrom Pulse

I find that since a lot of games tend to get grindy, you want to cut all of the cards that can potentially be dead top decks, i.e. Daze and Hymn, and against most aggressive decks FoW is fairly bad -- especially if they run Aether Vial or Cavern of Souls. Occasionally I'll leave some number of Hymn in the deck, but it depends on the matchup. For example, against Merfolk, Golgari Charm often isn't enough to kill their threats so you may want to try out-attritioning them by casting Hymn.

[Griselpuff]

I went 6-2 with my list at the invi. Losses were to sneak and show and rug, and I managed to only play one bad matchup (elves). I was 2-1 vs sneak and show and 1-1 vs rug on the weekend.

Also, Hymn is gas vs. the Aether Vial decks. It might be right to take them out on the draw vs. Merfolk, but that's about it.

[Jay_Gatz]

I went 6-2 with my list at the invi. Losses were to sneak and show and rug, and I managed to only play one bad matchup (elves). I was 2-1 vs sneak and show and 1-1 vs rug on the weekend.

Also, Hymn is gas vs. the Aether Vial decks. It might be right to take them out on the draw vs. Merfolk, but that's about it.

What did your list end up looking like?

[wcm8]

Also, Hymn is gas vs. the Aether Vial decks. It might be right to take them out on the draw vs. Merfolk, but that's about it.

Hymn is definitely powerful, but how many you keep in against Vial decks depends on what your sideboard looks like. I think you'd agree that it's the third card under consideration to cut after Force and Daze. It's amazingly powerful in the first couple turns, but beyond that a lot of Vial decks seem able to empty their hand so quickly that it becomes a dead draw. If you don't have more relevant cards to bring in instead, then I see the logic in leaving it in.

A Pittsburgh local, "powerful wizard" Rich Shay has been running the deck lately and has had a lot of success in both local and bigger tournaments. His build is similar to mine (12 creatures, 3 planeswalkers), but he opts for a Jace TMS over the third Liliana and has cut the 4th Ponder for various singletons: Piracy Charm, and more recently, Dimir Charm has made an appearance. Since these lists have been published, I don't see the harm in sharing his 'secret tech'.

Jace is a powerhouse in a format where you expect to face a lot of BUG decks: dodges Abrupt Decay, and generally just means you win the game if you untap with him. So I think running one as a consideration for the current BUG-heavy metagame is a great idea.

I'm not so sure about cutting the 4th Ponder, but consider: you don't want to cantrip into even more cantrips, and perhaps 7 is the correct number to give you consistency without as much potential for getting flooded with them. Also, Sylvan Library fulfills a similar function -- in a way you are running 8. So perhaps running a cheap, versatile Blue spell in the 4th Ponder's spot makes sense. I wonder if there is something better out there though...

[Zombie]

EDIT: Ignore, I can't read.