Congrats! Curious, what's your reasoning for Bob being better than Stalker now? Would you say he's better positioned than Tasigur, too?Originally Posted by akatsuki
Bob is better vs white fair decks and Combo (Miracles, StoneBlade), Tombstalker is better vs. non-white fair decks (RUG, Jund, Elves and Shardless). I would rather beat the former than the latter.
Btw, how do people generally SB vs. Elves? I have been cutting Hymns, but I'm not sure that is correct. I think it's a tough match-up, and Hymn is a do-nothing or win-the-game type of card, so maybe I should be playing it?
Are you sure you're not playing Bob over Tombstalker because it's your name?
No.
Depending on how badly you want to beat Elves, Engineered Plague is incredibly good. I've been running two of them because Plague is reasonable against Death and Taxes (Human for Mother of Runes, Thalia, and to bring Crusader down to a more managable size).
InfoNinjas
I think the list you play is the same as or very simliar to the winning list played at GP Paris last year?
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
How often was Jace boarded in, and/or relevant?Went 7-2 in Baltimore, losing to Bant (bad luck imho, I beat it online) and Elves (bad match-up, didn't have enough SB cards).
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=80729
I also 4-0'd two Dailies with the same 75. Should see one of the video series on CFB soon. Confidant is better than Tombstalker right now, but I sided it out a lot too. I'm still utterly convinced that Hymn >>> Stifle. People also kept playing around Stifle against me, which is all the more reason not to play it.
Did your combo MU's perform OK w/o in the inclusion of Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm? Just wondering if the Thoughtseize's plus Fow's got you there.
-2-3 Daze, -2 Hymn, +2-3 Disfigure, +2 Golgari Charm depending on how many Disfigures I decided to run. I don't like Daze much in the matchup, but keeping a decent blue count for Force is important. I agree that Hymn tends to feel quite polarized.
Yeah I basically talked to Javier and tweaked his list. I personally don't like Jace, so he's getting cut for Golgari Charm. I missed having Stalker for decks like RUG and Elves, so I might try him in the SB. Not sure though, because he is worse post SB due to Submerge.
The combo match-ups are fine, I'm not sure you need Spell Pierce or Thoughtseize. Both cards are pretty meh. I also think the StoneBlade match-ups are good, so that's another reason to cut them.
So running 3 Golgari Charms SB? That's something I've been wanting to test to improve MU's against Elves and DnT.
Aside from the previous comments about Elves-hate, I'll mull down to find a Golgari Charm if needed :) I've seen them overextend themselves into a charm to get blown out. Helps if we have a flipped Delver of course!
I think I'd rather have the 3rd Disfigure or Maelstrom Pulse than the 3rd Charm. I also board in Disfigure in Delver mirrors because it kills DRS, SFM, Swiftspears, and (flipped) Delvers, and Charm isn't an answer to any of them.
Congratulations on the strong finish, I like the list. I really like that Confidant gives good reason to have Library in the side. Two Lilianas main is also good I have found. I want to ask how you felt about 20 lands though? Did that feel like a good number? I felt squeezed with only 19, but flooded with 20, but it could most certainly just have been variance.
A miser Spell Pierce is always neat to make them play around, since they often won't be sure if you are playing Stifle-Pierce or Hymn with miser Pierce. Often, if they hold a spell back you can take that time to hit them with a Hymn and rip the good stuff. That is one reason why I just went to 4 Hymn. Turn 2 Hymn, turn 3 Hymn makes me happy happy. The fact that you had Confidants no doubt confused people even further, since they probably were expeccting Stifles (a la Jim Davis' build).
On Elves, I almost feel like their good, or great, draws are so bad for us that I'd almost rather just concede the matchup as unfavorable and keep precious board space open for matchups I can move to real positive. The number of times where I Charm out 3-4 Elves or more only to have them cast a Natural Order with the Deathrites it didn't kill or a Nettle Sentinal, or kill a bunch of Elves to only have them cast Glimpse and still draw a quarter of their deck anyway. Of course it depends on how often you see Elves, but since I usually only see them once per tournament, I feel like I'll take my chances with 2 Disfigures and 2 Charms or so.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Looking for some SB advice on Surgical Extraction. I have always played 2 GD Cage for gyard hate, and see some people are running 1 Cage and 1 Extraction. What's your experience on playing it, good or bad, and when to bring in? Is a split best or to run 1 of each, etc.?
kills loam nasty lands bridge. And againat combo i get a peak of their hand after a hymn. Tgough i dont use surgical againat combo that much
Hits Loam and Punishing Fire. I never bring it in versus combo though. I would never go below 1, my list right now has 2 though, because Lands has been popular around here. I only play 1 Cage though.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I always brought it in vs combo since with our hand disruption, we stand a good chance of hitting a key piece and then stripping it out of their deck (say you strip all the SnT / Sneak Attack / Griselbrand / Emrakul out of a Sneaky Show deck, even removing one of those 4 pieces makes it much harder for them to combo off).
I tested Bob's list last night and it seems pretty sweet except for the Thoughtseizes, which really felt way too low impact against everything except Stoneforge Mystic decks. Has anyone tried running Pierce in the Hymn builds? I'm not sure if it's too crappy without the extra mana denial that Stifle provides.
I think that pierce is ok, but i would probably recommend switching the seizes and the disfigures in the board.
Pierce is alright, but I wouldn't run more than 1-2. Indeed, without Stifle's mana denial, Pierce is not amazing, however, when people know you have Hymn, keeping cards back to wait for more mana often means having those cards just discarded. In those cases, they will often accelerate their plays, so Pierce can still have value.
It also opens the line of Turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Hymn + Pierce, which is great if you were on the play and they try to Brainstorm. I will Pierce that Brainstorm all day. If you have Daze there too it can be even more of a blowout and you might even catch a Daze with your own.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
What MU's do you side Confidant out? Referring to Bob's list, as well as the GP Paris list from last year.
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