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Thread: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

  1. #2981
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    toffee's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    I did something like that RUg delver +2 fluster -2 HTT
    stoneblade +1 library +2 bitterblossom -2 edict -1 fow
    grixis control - 4 fow +2 blossom +1 library +1 last hope
    miracle -2 wasteland -3 daze -3 push -2 edict + 2blossom +1 library +1 last hope +2 fluster +1 needle +2 surgical +1 seize

    I played also against reanimator which I lost and moon stompy which I lost in 2/3 (that was close)

    I have found maindeck to be very good, I don't like the seize in side, I think I would play something more focused on combo maybe mistcaller or more flustestorm/swan song.

    Didn't brought marsh casualties but I suppose they are for elf and death and taxes.

    Casualties is for elf,taxes,grixis pyromancer,affinity,zombi,storm/tes for empty the warrens,maybe infect,maybe goblin.... but I don't know if I can split 1 Marsh 1 Dread of Night.

    About the sideboard, now I'm testing this one:
    3 surgical extraction
    2 flusterstorm
    2 spell pierce
    2 thoughtseize
    2 bitterblossom
    2 marsh casualties
    2 liliana, the last hope

    in order to have a good sideboard against all matchups.
    About Red Stompy, unfortunately this is bad matchup...(before DRS was the same..)
    About Reanimator, depends on his initial hand and how can make the fast combo.

    What do u think about blossom...have u ever seen on T2?
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  2. #2982

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    what would you change in a meta (fnm, 10 people) with 2 dnt + elves ??? i would go for deluge for 1 edict and 1 liliana the last hope (buys back threats too) for 1 true-name

  3. #2983
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by tobyha View Post
    what would you change in a meta (fnm, 10 people) with 2 dnt + elves ??? i would go for deluge for 1 edict and 1 liliana the last hope (buys back threats too) for 1 true-name
    I think that deluge and golgari charm can't be put into this deck.
    If there are some decks with dnt,elves,strix,other nemesis...you can add a marsh casualties maindeck...
    In addition there is another option:
    -1 diabolic edict | +1 darkblast | -1 true-name | +1 gurmag angler

    or:

    -1 tnn + 1 hope

    or:

    -2 tnn | +2 gurmag | +2 darkblast | -2 diabolic edict

    On the other hand, you can add the 3th marsh casualties SB + 1 dread of night. If you know that there won't be any combo decks, you can remove 2 spell pierce in order to..

    PS: I consider my list and how I would change with this meta.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  4. #2984

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    i know, that it doesnt sound good to play toxic deluge, but if you draw it against dnt or elves - isnīt the blowout effect against them much higher than the loss of one true-name (maybe). i wouldnt use golgari charm or a 2nd deluge in the sb though.

  5. #2985
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by tobyha View Post
    i know, that it doesnt sound good to play toxic deluge, but if you draw it against dnt or elves - isnīt the blowout effect against them much higher than the loss of one true-name (maybe). i wouldnt use golgari charm or a 2nd deluge in the sb though.
    So, if u play 3-of you can add a toxic deluge as "save-game" into the sb. But with 4-of I don't know if it is the best option.
    You can try, mate !
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  6. #2986

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    So, if u play 3-of you can add a toxic deluge as "save-game" into the sb. But with 4-of I don't know if it is the best option.
    You can try, mate !
    In my experience, Toxic Deluge is not as awesome vs those decks as it seems
    - Vs. Elves, -1/-1 is usually enough to wipe 90% of their board, thus MC and GC are good enough (and two mana sweeper are sometimes necessary when on the draw)
    - Vs. DnT I found it often quiet hard to actually cast TD due the heavy denial + Thalia we're usually facing, in addition, -1/-1 is often also enough to deal with most threats so Edicts etc. can deal with the rest

    In conculsion I would always stay with 2 sweepers for 2 mana (which one is depending on # of TNNs) + x LTLH, depending on your meta (most likely 2 in the described scenario)

  7. #2987
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Storming_Dude View Post
    In my experience, Toxic Deluge is not as awesome vs those decks as it seems
    - Vs. Elves, -1/-1 is usually enough to wipe 90% of their board, thus MC and GC are good enough (and two mana sweeper are sometimes necessary when on the draw)
    - Vs. DnT I found it often quiet hard to actually cast TD due the heavy denial + Thalia we're usually facing, in addition, -1/-1 is often also enough to deal with most threats so Edicts etc. can deal with the rest

    In conculsion I would always stay with 2 sweepers for 2 mana (which one is depending on # of TNNs) + x LTLH, depending on your meta (most likely 2 in the described scenario)
    I totally agree.
    (1 Deluge was played when were played 4 drs, 4 delver, 4 goyf, 2 stalker...)
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  8. #2988

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Hi guys,

    I follow the forum for a long time to get ideas for my decks.
    Here is my first post and report on the tournament that I participated with BUG Delver.

    Decklist:

    // 12 Creature
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Tarmogoyf

    // 22 Instant
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle

    // 19 Land
    2 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    // 7 Sorcery
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Ponder


    // 5 Artifact
    SB: 1 Null Rod
    SB: 2 Damping Sphere
    SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

    // 1 Enchantment
    SB: 1 Bitterblossom

    // 7 Instant
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict

    // 1 Planeswalker
    SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    // 1 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

    It is a regional tournament, we have 58 players in this last event, follow the results:

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 Death and Taxes
    G1: Wastelands and Batterskull;
    G2: Toxic, Goyf and Null Rod ended the game;
    G3: 2 Delvers, 1 TNN and Stifle on Stoneforge.

    BUG Delver 0 - 2 BR Reanimator

    G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
    G2: Unmask, Iona for Blue T1;

    BUG Delver 1 - 2 BR Reanimator

    G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
    G2: Spit all hand T1, Extraction and Fow... Delver and Wastelands;
    G3: T1: Petal, Ritual, Seize, Entombs, Reanimate Sire of Insanity.

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 UB Reanimator

    G1: Delver, TNN and Daze held the game in my favor;
    G2: Griselbrand T3 with FOW;
    G3: Goyf, Wastelands and Stifle in his fetches.

    BUG Delver 2 - 0 RUG Delver

    G1: Goyf and Angler just did not make it rain;
    G2: Toxic and Angler. Massacre of the mongooses.

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 Big Eldrazi

    G1: TKS T2 (FOW), TKS T3 (Push), Karn T4;
    G2: Damping Sphere T2, Angler and some Wastelands brought sunshine to the day;
    G3: FOW on TKS T2, Damping Sphere T3 for the win... Delvers and Goyf finished the job.

    BUG Delver 2 - 0 OmniTell

    G1: Stifles and Wastelands;
    G2: Delver T1, Flusterstorm T2, Dumping Sphere T3, GG.

    YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
    Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

    Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english

  9. #2989
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by acetrenb View Post
    Hi guys,

    (...)

    YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
    Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

    Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english
    Hey man, congratulations for this nice finish! Looks like your version of the deck is capable of being quite successful against the field. I noticed, that your deck follows 2 different paths, one: "Tap-Out" with big creatures and Hymn to Tourach an second: "Wait-and-react" with Stifle and counterspells. How did those kinda contradictory paths work out for you?

  10. #2990

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by JanoschEausH View Post
    Hey man, congratulations for this nice finish! Looks like your version of the deck is capable of being quite successful against the field. I noticed, that your deck follows 2 different paths, one: "Tap-Out" with big creatures and Hymn to Tourach an second: "Wait-and-react" with Stifle and counterspells. How did those kinda contradictory paths work out for you?
    I prefer have consistency in the game, so I'm using Stifle and Hymn to slow down potential threats in the early game. I believe the real potential of BUG Delver is in the mid-late game.
    Once you establish a threat (Delver, TNN, Goyf or Angler) and can "control" the opponent's field with Decay, Push, Daze, Wastes... becomes very difficult to lose.

  11. #2991
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by acetrenb View Post
    Hi guys,

    I follow the forum for a long time to get ideas for my decks.
    Here is my first post and report on the tournament that I participated with BUG Delver.

    Decklist:

    // 12 Creature
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Tarmogoyf

    // 22 Instant
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle

    // 19 Land
    2 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    // 7 Sorcery
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Ponder


    // 5 Artifact
    SB: 1 Null Rod
    SB: 2 Damping Sphere
    SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

    // 1 Enchantment
    SB: 1 Bitterblossom

    // 7 Instant
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict

    // 1 Planeswalker
    SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    // 1 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

    It is a regional tournament, we have 58 players in this last event, follow the results:

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 Death and Taxes
    G1: Wastelands and Batterskull;
    G2: Toxic, Goyf and Null Rod ended the game;
    G3: 2 Delvers, 1 TNN and Stifle on Stoneforge.

    BUG Delver 0 - 2 BR Reanimator

    G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
    G2: Unmask, Iona for Blue T1;

    BUG Delver 1 - 2 BR Reanimator

    G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
    G2: Spit all hand T1, Extraction and Fow... Delver and Wastelands;
    G3: T1: Petal, Ritual, Seize, Entombs, Reanimate Sire of Insanity.

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 UB Reanimator

    G1: Delver, TNN and Daze held the game in my favor;
    G2: Griselbrand T3 with FOW;
    G3: Goyf, Wastelands and Stifle in his fetches.

    BUG Delver 2 - 0 RUG Delver

    G1: Goyf and Angler just did not make it rain;
    G2: Toxic and Angler. Massacre of the mongooses.

    BUG Delver 2 - 1 Big Eldrazi

    G1: TKS T2 (FOW), TKS T3 (Push), Karn T4;
    G2: Damping Sphere T2, Angler and some Wastelands brought sunshine to the day;
    G3: FOW on TKS T2, Damping Sphere T3 for the win... Delvers and Goyf finished the job.

    BUG Delver 2 - 0 OmniTell

    G1: Stifles and Wastelands;
    G2: Delver T1, Flusterstorm T2, Dumping Sphere T3, GG.

    YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
    Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

    Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english
    Cool report! Glad to see a BUG dude get such good result!

    I'd like to ask 3 questions:
    i. I didn't see thoughtseize or spell pierce in your decks.Is that because you chose Hymm+Stlfie?
    ii. How did Damping Sphere beated Omni-tell? Do you think if we can apply the similar strategy to SnT?
    iii. I saw you beated DNT with a great game, did you play with any U/W Stoneblade or Miracle decks? How does it feel?

  12. #2992

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReinhardtGao View Post
    Cool report! Glad to see a BUG dude get such good result!

    I'd like to ask 3 questions:
    i. I didn't see thoughtseize or spell pierce in your decks.Is that because you chose Hymm+Stlfie?
    ii. How did Damping Sphere beated Omni-tell? Do you think if we can apply the similar strategy to SnT?
    iii. I saw you beated DNT with a great game, did you play with any U/W Stoneblade or Miracle decks? How does it feel?
    I. I thought a lot about what could be the best combination, so after many tests with my team I noticed that the power of a Hymn T2 is much superior than a Seize T1, that in addition to not disputing the drop1 with Delver.
    About Stifle: I can not see how it does not fit on a deck like this. Break lands in a DRS-free format often wins the game.

    II. OmniTell/SnT are decks that dig a lot to find their combo pieces: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Intuition... but the crucial difference is the mana base, what makes the deck fast besides the Petals are Tomb/City, which are disabled by Sphere.
    With Sphere they lose at least 3-4 turns, because: Petal, pass the turn, Ponder, pass the turn, Petal pass the turn, Brainstorm. I'ts almost the same as Arcane Laboratory They need to hold the combo to not pay the extra for Sphere. Meanwhile you're holding the counters and beating with Delver or Goyf.
    When they finally get the combo, they need 1 extra mana to pay for FOW, or 2 extra mana for the Flusterstorm (assuming his only spell on the turn was SnT/Sneak Attack).

    III. Miracles is no longer relevant here in Brazil, very difficult to appear in tournaments. But Stoneblade yes.
    The list does relatively well, because we can delay Stoneforge with Decay or Stifle, Hymn is a very strong card against them as well. The big problem is in the amount of removals these decks carry.

  13. #2993
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by acetrenb View Post
    I. I thought a lot about what could be the best combination, so after many tests with my team I noticed that the power of a Hymn T2 is much superior than a Seize T1, that in addition to not disputing the drop1 with Delver.
    About Stifle: I can not see how it does not fit on a deck like this. Break lands in a DRS-free format often wins the game.

    II. OmniTell/SnT are decks that dig a lot to find their combo pieces: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Intuition... but the crucial difference is the mana base, what makes the deck fast besides the Petals are Tomb/City, which are disabled by Sphere.
    With Sphere they lose at least 3-4 turns, because: Petal, pass the turn, Ponder, pass the turn, Petal pass the turn, Brainstorm. I'ts almost the same as Arcane Laboratory They need to hold the combo to not pay the extra for Sphere. Meanwhile you're holding the counters and beating with Delver or Goyf.
    When they finally get the combo, they need 1 extra mana to pay for FOW, or 2 extra mana for the Flusterstorm (assuming his only spell on the turn was SnT/Sneak Attack).

    III. Miracles is no longer relevant here in Brazil, very difficult to appear in tournaments. But Stoneblade yes.
    The list does relatively well, because we can delay Stoneforge with Decay or Stifle, Hymn is a very strong card against them as well. The big problem is in the amount of removals these decks carry.
    Thanks dude. Sphere is really a great idea that I haven't thought of. Should Jam 1-2 copies against SNT&Eldrazi&MUD gurus next time:)

    Not a fun of Bitterblossom, I might change it to something sylvan library, life from the loam or thoughtseize. In which game did you board-in BB? How did that feel?(I was once used it in a BUG midrange list against Grixis control. When I finally found and casted it, I was nearly dying...)

  14. #2994

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I am doing some testing also with UBshadow (list form LSV) and I believe it (shadow) is a better deck especially against the tier one.

  15. #2995

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    I am doing some testing also with UBshadow (list form LSV) and I believe it (shadow) is a better deck especially against the tier one.
    i tested it yesterday, the matchup against dnt is horrendous preboard, but against other decks its such a fast disruptive deck, which gets to the board quicker and closes games faster.

  16. #2996

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by tobyha View Post
    i tested it yesterday, the matchup against dnt is horrendous preboard, but against other decks its such a fast disruptive deck, which gets to the board quicker and closes games faster.
    Well, this might be true, but the one thing this deck is missing, where BUG Delver is stronger, is recovery - Once DS has been beaten to the ground it's dead. Thus I'm not agreeing with LSV opinion that DS is the only viable Delver version in Legacy going foward.

  17. #2997

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReinhardtGao View Post
    Thanks dude. Sphere is really a great idea that I haven't thought of. Should Jam 1-2 copies against SNT&Eldrazi&MUD gurus next time:)

    Not a fun of Bitterblossom, I might change it to something sylvan library, life from the loam or thoughtseize. In which game did you board-in BB? How did that feel?(I was once used it in a BUG midrange list against Grixis control. When I finally found and casted it, I was nearly dying...)
    I think it's very strong against hard control decks like Miracles, Grixis or even Stoneforge, DnT. Against DnT is almost GG if you find it T2

    But really, it's not a fixed slot in SB. I used to use Library, but the games I could side-in were so few that I preferred to remove it.

  18. #2998
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    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Hi mates, next week I'll have a big tournament and I would like to have your opinions about this:

    4 verdant catacombs
    4 polluted delta
    1 misty rainforest
    4 wasteland
    3 underground sea
    2 tropical island
    2 bayou

    4 delver of secrets
    4 tarmogoyf
    3 true-name nemesis
    2 gurmag angler

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 force of will
    3 daze
    3 hymn to tourach
    3 fatal push
    3 abrupt decay
    2 diabolic edict
    1 sylvan library

    SIDEBOARD
    3 surgical extraction
    2 flusterstorm
    2 spell pierce
    2 thoughtseize
    2 bitterblossom
    2 liliana, the last hope
    1 marsh casualties
    1 dread of night

    I think that meta will be: DT,Miracles,Grixis Control,RUG Delver,S&Sshow,Eldrazi,BR Reanimator (maybe some Red Stompy, and should be game loss hahaha)
    I want 8 removals MD because of DT,RUG,Eldrazi.
    MD: -1 TNN +1 Library in order to get the manipulation I need.
    SB: -1 Marsh +1 Dread of night in order to increase the DNT matchup.

    Maindeck the deck works very well..
    - I tried stifle but it isn't too strong in my meta.
    - I tried 11-12 creatures but I've seen they aren't enough.
    - Bitterblossom can be a wincon on T2. I'm very impressed with it.
    - Fluster + Pierce + Seize against control/combo are the best configuration from my tests.
    - 3x Surgical are MUST HAVE!!
    - MD 2 diabolic edict: with eldrazi, mongoose, DT creatures, Gurmag, or maybe Marit Lage....this card could win the game. In addition requires only 1 black.
    - Split 3x Daze 3x Tourach: I think that 3x Daze is enough, because I want to see at least 1-of every game (on topdeck bad card obv). Tourach instead requires BB, so I would have only 3x BB md, because I have just 3x UU tnn.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

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  1. toffee