[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Dragonslayer_90]

Table of Contents

I. Overview
II. History
III. Core List
IV. Maindeck Flex Slots
V. Common Sideboard Cards
VI. General Strategic Guidelines
VII. Matchup Analysis and Sideboarding Guide
VIII. Other Successful Lists
IX. Further Reading

I. Overview

Team America (A.K.A. BUG Delver) is fundamentally an Aggro-Control deck. The current face of Team America splices elements of Blue-based Tempo and BGx midrange. This composition allows the deck to make powerful plays in the early game and still be able to play magic into the mid and late game. The deck looks to generate tempo through a “Tap out” method with an early Deathrite Shaman. The idea of Tapout tempo is to cast lots of cheap spells and hold up manaless counters in the early game to get so far ahead your that your opponent has a hard time getting back into the game. Proactive discard, manaless counters, the uncounterable Abrupt Decay, and high quality creatures allows this deck to accel at generating tempo. The deck usually plays around 14 creatures total. All of these creatures are so good that they must be answered right away as they end the game quickly (Delver of Secrets, Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker) or take over the game by allowing you to get so far ahead (Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman). The cantrip suite of Brainstorm and Ponder enables a consistency that is the hallmark of Legacy’s tempo strategies.


II. History

The deck itself has an interesting history to its creation as it started out as joke deck of David Gearhart’s. In its primordial form, it was originally just Blue-Black, played Tombstalkers and Confidants as threats, and had Team America’s early land destruction package of Sinkhole and Wasteland. Also, it had no removal and main decked four Extirpates. "To say the least it was pretty bad (although pretty fun to play)" said Daniel Signorini about the first iteration of Team America. Eventually, Dan and David started working on the deck to make it more competitive, at one point adding Phyrexian dreadnoughts and snuff outs. When they decided to try out Goyf the deck began to come into its own:

4 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
4 Snuff Out
4 Sinkhole

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Krosan Grip
3 Diabolic Edict

A far cry from present-day lists. The additions of Delver of Secrets, Liliana of the Veil, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay in recent years have enabled Team America to become one of the most competitive tempo decks in Legacy.


III. Core List

The current core of Team America consists of the following cards:

Creatures

4 Deathrite Shaman - The best creature in the deck. He does it all: acceleration, threat, and stabilizer. While not as aggressive as a Turn One Delver, this card enables some of most insane starts for the deck.

4 Delver of Secrets - The namesake of legacy's tempo decks. This card helps the deck put pressure on your opponent fast and is at its best when played within the first two turns. You should never play less than four for this reason alone.

4 Tarmogoyf - Good ol' Goyf. This card provides a huge body at such low cost that can stabilize the board against more aggressive creature decks and clock combo, midrange, and control pretty fast.

Instants

4 Brainstorm - Arguably the best card in legacy. With a fetchland its almost Ancestral Recall. In this deck Brainstorm helps ensure our Delvers flip in addition to all its other amazing uses.

3-4 Abrupt Decay - The other reason to play Green and Black. While less efficient than Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares, it makes up for it by being uncounterable and more flexible overall.

3-4 Force of Will - Often called "the glue" that holds Legacy together. While bad in fair matchups, it is still a manaless catch-all answer that can be used to out-tempo your opponent when used rightly.

3-4 Daze - The other manaless counter that helps the deck generate tempo. You should be less selective with this spell in what you want to counter much of the time since Daze gets worse as the the game goes into the mid and late game. There are exceptions to this though, like when you want save it for a counter war against a combo deck.

Sorceries

3-4 Ponder - Pretty much Brainstorm 5-8, though without a fetch it is usually better than Brainstorm at digging for answers or action. Personally I'm hesitant to play less than 4 since cantrips allow tempo decks to be highly consistent and adaptable to many different situations. I would never go below 3.

3-4 Hymn to Tourach - Consider this card the Stifle of the deck as you often want it to hit lands when you play it. It is less consistent than Stifle at denying your opponent mana but more explosive and does much more in general. At its best when played in the early game to force your opponent to stumble.

The Mana Base

The configuration of the mana base depends on your build. More blue heavy builds usually run a 2-1 split between Tropical Island and Bayou respectively while traditional black heavy builds run the reverse split. Anways, here's a skeleton for Team America's manabase:

8-9 BUG Color fetches
1-2 Tropical Island
1-2 Bayou
3-4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland - Not really a land, but don't be hesitant to use for mana it if it gets a Goyf on the table!


IV. Maindeck Flex Slots

Assuming you follow the above core list, the remaining slots are usually filled with following cards, depending on meta and preference:

Creatures

1-3 Tombstalkers - The traditional "resilient" beater of the deck. He's fantastic against any fair deck not playing white. Best in metas with not too many Swords, Jace, Rest in Peace, etc.
1-2 Dark Confidant - Bob provides the deck another angle of attack by giving it more grinding power. He will not end the game fast like Tombstalker, but like Deathrite Shaman he will put you so far ahead that you should eventually win.
1-2 True-Name Nemesis - The most resilient threat for the deck to fill out the last few creature slots.

Instant

1-2 Disfigure - A supplemental removal spell. Effective for killing must kill one-drops like Mother of Runes, Goblin Lackey, opposing Deathrite Shamans, etc.

1 Dismember - Another supplemental removal spell that can kill more creatures than Disfigure. This card can often kill a Goyf. However, the potential life loss can sometimes matter.

Sorcery

2-4 Thoughtseize - The other discard spell to consider. Less exposive than Hymn to Tourach but more consistent since you get to choose what card to take. The information is often very helpful as well.

Misc.

1-3 Liliana of the Veil - This card is a peculiar consideration at first since planeswalkers have not traditionally been part of tempo maindecks. However, Liliana provides awesome incremental advantage at such a low cost, making her the exception. Played Turn 2 off a Deathrite is a particularly powerful play that can shut down many decks. In Team America she allows you to grind into the mid and late game.

1 Sylvan Library - Your other option for cheap incremental advantage. Think of it as mini-Jace.


V. Common Sideboard Cards

Creatures

1-2 Vendilion Clique - The most common creature in a Team America sideboard. Great against combo, control, and any deck with Stoneforge Mystic.

Instants

1-2 Diabolic Edict - Another supplemental removal spell. This effect is already provided well enough by Liliana of the Veil, but its not unheard of to see this in some sideboards for those who want a mix of removal.

2-3 Disfigure - Same reason as in previous section.

1 Dismember - Same reason as in previous section.

2-3 Golgari Charm - One of the best sideboard cards Team America has access to. You will mostly use its first two modes, but the third can be put to good use sometimes.

1-2 Krosan Grip - Mostly an answer to Batterskull but can be used to good effect in other matchups.

2-3 Spell Pierce - For those times where you want more counter magic, which is usually against combo and control.

Sorceries

1 Hymn to Tourach - For those who want another Hymn in some matchups.

1-2 Thoughtseize - For those who want more spot discard postboard.

Misc.

1-2 Grafdigger's Cage - Your primary graveyard hate card with the added bonus of being phenomenal against Elves.

1 Null Rod - Even if this isn't vintage, there are still powerful artifacts you want to hate on.

1-2 Pithing Needle - A highly flexible hate card since there are many permanents with activated abilities being used.

1-2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor - This card is very helpful in grindy matchups where your mana base is not pressured too much like against blade decks and the mirror. It should also be noted that Jace helps out a lot in the miracles matchup, which can be tough for Team America sometimes.

1-2 Liliana of the Veil - Sometimes you want more Lilianas postboard.

1 Sylvan Library - This card is a very good singleton sb card as well. In some matchups it doesn't do enough so sometimes its just better to have it in the board to bring it in for those matchups you actually want it.


VI. General Strategic Guidlines

Here are some guildlines to keep in mind when playing Team America:

1. DEATHRITE SHAMAN IS KING: Turn one against an unknown opponent Deathrite Shaman is this deck's best first play. To quote Bob Huang: "I go Deathrite Shaman into Hymn to Tourach, discarding two lands, and crush him. Team America has so many broken openings like this one. Deathrite Shaman + Hymn to Tourach + Daze Wasteland Delver of Secrets is incredibly backbreaking against almost every deck in the format."

2. THIS IS NOT RUG DELVER: I mentioned earlier that this deck seeks to generate Tempo through a "Tapout" method. With traditional builds you are often better off trying to cast as many spells as possible in the early game. There exceptions to this though. For instance, it is best to play one threat at a time for the most part against miracles if you can afford to so that they don't get value out of Terminus.
.
3. DISRUPTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THREATS MUCH OF THE TIME: There are times where the opening hands of this deck are either very threat heavy with no disruption and disruption heavy with no threats. Since this is legacy, heavy disruption hands are better in most situations than threat heavy hands. Interacting with your opponent is key in many games, especially against combo. Again though it's all dependent on the match up. In the dark though, I'm fine keeping a disruption heavy hand, especially if it has a cantrip or two. On the other hand I'm hesitant to keep a threat heavy hand in the dark because you will just be dead to any combo deck unless they brick really hard.


VII. Matchup Analysis and Sideboarding Guide

The purpose of this section is to give an idea what to do against decks considered Tier 1-1.5. Credit goes to Bob Huang for the sideboarding advice and some of the matchup analysis. Keep in mind that the sideboarding advice is just to give you an idea of how to sideboard with this deck and is influenced by Bob Huang's playstyle. You should really be sideboarding in response to how your opponent plays and what they do in postboard games. Also, keep in mind all matchup ratings apply to Game 1 only. Match ups may become favorable, even, or unfavorable postboard, in which case I will state how much better or worse a matchup becomes postboard.

First things first, the sideboarding advice refers to Lawrence Moo Young's Open winning list:

BUG Delver by Lawrence Moo Young
1st at SCG Legacy Open Orlando

Creatures (14)

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Liliana of the Veil

Instants (16)

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

Sorceries (8)

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder

Lands (20)

2 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard

1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce
1 Submerge
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Here is the guide itself:

RUG Delver Favored

-4 FoW, -2 Hymn on play, - 2 Daze, -2 FoW, -2 Hymn on draw

+3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

RUG is still alive and kicking. On the play you need to respect Stifle more. Some people like to keep to Force of Will on the draw so that you don't get too far behind. As long as you can establish your landbase and not die, you should be able to win since your have cards much more powerful than theirs.


UWR Delver Even

-1 Tombstalker, -4 FoW, -4 Daze

+3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana

This matchup can be pretty skill intensive. If neither side can successfully execute a one-sided blow out the game becomes really grindy. While TNN is something to respect, Stoneforge Mystic is usually more scary since they can often shut you down with an early Batterskull. This means it might be worth to hold back onto that one Abrupt Decay instead of killing that Delver if there's a chance they have Stoneforge in their hand. Also, since they play so much more removal than RUG, it might be better to play discard spells prior to playing threats in the early game.

ANT Favored

-2 Tombstalker, -1 Bayou, -3 Abrupt Decay

+1 Grafdigger’s, +3 Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana

This matchup is pretty easy in my opinion as long as you know how their deck works. There's not too much to say here. Play a threat early and disrupt them as they get clocked. Hymn is a beast in this matchup since they need a critical mass of cards to go off. Play Golgari Charm over Abrupt Decay if you see Burning Wish since that makes it more likely that they have access to Empty the Warrens. Otherwise Abrupt Decay is better since it can kill LED.

Elves Unfavored

-1 Bayou, -4 Daze, -4 Hymn, -2 Liliana

+1 Grafdigger’s, +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Submerge

Ah Combo Elves. One of the most interesting and frustrating matchups. Game 1 you must focus on tempoing them out. Preboard you lack the tools to keep control of the board for long. Your flyers (Delver/ Tombstalker if you have them) are your best threats. Post board you get a little more wiggle room in your game plan but should still focus on closing the game out as soon as possible since Elves has the ability both to race us without comboing off and grind us out with their synergies. Postboard Natural Order for Craterhoof becomes more difficult since you have so much removal so you usually just have to keep them off Natural Order for Proggy or Glimpse.


EsperBlade Even or Unfavored

-1 Bayou, -1 Sea, -4 FoW, -2 Tombstalker, -2 Daze

+3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

I find this matchup to be highly dependent on the list. Stock TNN lists are even in my opinion since we have ways to deal with/ race TNN. More traditional lists with Lingering Souls are more of a headache, turning the matchup into an unfavorable one preboard at least. Either way we are definitely the beat down. Try to get them to stumble with wasteland and Hymn. Don’t overextend into Supreme Verdict if you can afford to. Like the UWR matchup Stoneforge Mystic is more scary and usually is a must kill/counter on sight. Also, don’t let them resolve Jace. You’re going have a bad day if they do except in corner cases where you too far ahead for it to matter.

BUG Delver Even

-4 FoW, -1 Daze

+3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Liliana

I find the mirror to be even like UWR Delver in which the die roll can heavily influence the outcome and games either end quickly via one-sided blowouts or after a long war of attrition where the person who can stick a threat the longest or generate an insurmountable advantage wins. Deathrite Shaman’s pretty important in the mirror and thus you should not let one stick. If your opponent has one and you don’t, it is easy to fall behind fast.

Sneak and Show Favored

-1 Bayou, -2 Tombstalker, -4 Abrupt Decay

+1 Liliana, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 KGrip, +1 Golgari Charm

This matchup, to put it simply, is like any other combo matchup with a tempo deck: have disruption backed up by a clock. Preboard the business spells you have to prevent from resolving are Show and Tell and Sneak Attack. Postboard sneak and show players usually bring in more business in the form of some number of blood moons and through the breach. Blood Moon is the reason you want to consider bringing in a couple golgari charm or keep in some Abrupt Decay since your going to lose if that card resolves when you have little to no pressure on board. Even if you have some threats on board when they blood moon you you might still very well lose because you can't cast anything but force of will, which Sneak and Show can very well beat if that's all you have for disruption. Overall, the matchup is favorable for us, especially if they have no Leyline of Sanctity to bring post board.

Death and Taxes Unfavored

-4 FoW, -4 Daze, -2 Ponder

+3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

This MU is usually bad preboard. Postboard it gets much better since you have all the removal in the world to kill all their stupid white creatures. I’m usually a fan of keeping Liliana and Hymn in even though it’s a risk with potential sb Wilt-Leaf Lieges. However, they have no card advantage so hymn and Liliana are brutal when they don’t have their lieges.

Death Blade Even

-4 FoW, -1 Sea, -4 Daze

+3 Disfigure, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

Legacy’s premiere goodstuff deck. All advice for Esperblade pretty much applies here except Tombstalker is playable here since they have fewer Jaces usually and no Rest in Peace postboard.

Shardless BUG Unfavorable

-4 FoW, -1 Sea, -1 Abrupt Decay

+3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Tar Pit, +1 Liliana

Hymn and wasteland are your best friends in this match up. You need to try and get them to stumble with those cards and other disruption since they will out value you in the long run if you don’t.

Miracles Even

-1 Bayou, -1 Sea, -2 Tombstalker, -4 Daze, -2 Deathrite Shaman
+3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

This matchup is about killing them as fast as you can without overextending into Terminus. However, with that said, know when it’s time to get all your dudes on the board for an alpha strike. Use your discard and Liliana to grind their hand down while also clocking them. Postboard you want to side in any permanent based hate or advantage generators like Pithing Needle, Null Rod, Sylvan Library, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, etc.


VIII. Other Successful Lists

BUG Delver
Greg Mitchell
1st Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 3/16/2014

Creatures (14)

1 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Tombstalker
1 True-Name Nemesis
Planeswalkers (1)

1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (20)

2 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Spells (25)

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Disfigure
3 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard

1 Sylvan Library
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Disfigure
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse

BUG Delver
Javier Dominguez
1st Place at Grand Prix on 2/16/2014
Legacy


Creatures (14)

2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (3)

3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (20)

2 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Spells (23)

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Engineered Plague
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Force of Will
2 Golgari Charm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Hymn to Tourach

BUG Delver
Daniel Signorini
9th Place at Grand Prix on 11/17/2013
Legacy


Creatures (14)

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
Lands (20)

2 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Spells (26)

1 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
1 Disfigure
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder
Sideboard

1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
2 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Spell Pierce
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Creeping Tar Pit

IX. Helpful Articles
Rich Shay's SCG Columbus Report
Greg Mitchell's SCG Seattle Report
Bob Huang's SCG Baltimore Report
Bob Huang's GP DC and SCG Providence Report
The Old Primer

Shout out to Daniel Signorini, Bob Huang, and anyone else who was instrumental in making Team America what it is today. I'd also like to thank TheArchitect for the banner above and Einherjer for providing good points for the miracles matchup analysis. And remember guys, the deck is called:


(Thank shrubs for this one XD)

[KobeBryan]

you better tell the mods cuz people still post in the old bant thread instead of the one i created.

[Dragonslayer_90]

you better tell the mods cuz people still post in the old bant thread instead of the one i created.

I did. I specifically created this one for Zilla to swap it out with the old one. Zilla should be doing that within a day or so I assume.

[Asthereal]

Question about the primer: the sideboard guide for Canadian Thresh tells me to side -2 Hymn, -2 Daze, -2 FoW on the draw. Why this split?
Do we really want the two Forces? Why keep two Dazes? Daze is bad late game, so I would say it's probably best to either play the full set and maximize our chances to have it early, or to cut them all and play a few Pierces instead, to try and protect our guys from removal. Is that wrong reasoning?

[Dragonslayer_90]

Question about the primer: the sideboard guide for Canadian Thresh tells me to side -2 Hymn, -2 Daze, -2 FoW on the draw. Why this split?
Do we really want the two Forces? Why keep two Dazes? Daze is bad late game, so I would say it's probably best to either play the full set and maximize our chances to have it early, or to cut them all and play a few Pierces instead, to try and protect our guys from removal. Is that wrong reasoning?

You are not completely wrong in your reasoning. I think you have valid arguments to sideboard differently than the way I have listed. Keep in mind though that this advice was provided by Akatsuki a while ago in the old thread when he posted a sideboard guide and is thus influenced by his playstyle. I am not sure if I entirely agree with him myself but I will attempt to justify his choices anyways:

1. Having all Hymns out on the draw is understandable if you have better cards to bring in as it's at least recognizably less impactful on the draw even if not as bad as Daze on the draw.

2. Keeping two Dazes in on the draw I imagine is to both keep blue count up for those two Force of Wills and because in fair matchups it hits the things we care about most, which are creature based threats.

3. Keeping two Force of Will on the draw is not entirely unheard of. I've made that a regular practice against RUG since being on the draw against a deck with Stifle can hurt. So it's partly to not get blown out by stifle but also it's there to not fall too behind in general. I've been starting to keep two Force of Wills in on the draw against any Delver deck when I'm playing Team America. I find it can be a real life saver sometimes because Delver mirrors can be really swingy.

[Unassigned]

Sneak and Show Unfavored

This is all I needed to see. MWAHAHA!!! :-P

Seriously though, nice write up, Sith. Very detailed and informative.

[sawatarix]

Goblins try to play the control game against any kind of delver decks.
The longer the game goes the more they are going to win in my experience because you cant beat 4 matrons 4 ringleader and the big dudes aka commander and krenko during g1.
Discard helps as well as a ton of removal spells.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Asthereal]

I encountered Goblins during my last tourney, and I managed to stall game 3 long enough to get the draw, but he had Krenko out, which was always going to kill me in the long run. Krenko is a big issue, because we have no proper way of dealing with it. Charm plus Disfigure is the only way, really. I felt the only way to win this matchup was to get an early Delver or Stalker out, while using Hymn to deprive him of goblins in hand and removal to kill the guys on the board. Pure tempo/aggrocontrol play. Hymn also helps negate the effect of a Ringleader.

The difference in this matchup between being on the play and being on the draw is massive. Liliana for instance is pretty bad if it enters the battlefield too late, because her removal ability will hit irrelevant guys all the time. Half the goblin army is expendable anyway. But if Lily enters on turn 2-3 on the play, she'll hit the first goblin that enters the field, which in turn allows you to untap, tick her one up and drop a blocker or cast removal on the second goblin that comes in. This allows Lily to use her removal ability twice. Also Daze on the play is fine against goblins, but on the draw it's absolutely unusable. On the play we can actually play a fine tempo game and win easily. On the draw we need quite a bit of luck to keep the green guys at bay.

[order]

About the first game, i think the secret against goblins is not being afraid of mulligan.

I always mulligan hands like this:
fetch fetch brainstorm ponder fow daze ponder.

Its a nice hand, but we need to be the aggressor in this match.

For me, this is the perfect hand against them:

shaman, hymn, goyf, abrupt, delver, 2 lands.

t1 - shaman
t2 - goyf + delver
t3 - hymn + abrupt the vial =)

[The Atog Lord]

In my experience, the BUG matchup against RUG is quite favorable. However, I think the fact that the primer advocates cutting two Hymns indicates that my understanding of the matchup is quite different from that of the primer's author. RUG is an excellent aggressive deck, and so the BUG deck is cast into the control role. BUG is forced to establish its manabase, while using its removal spells to halt the initial rush of the RUG player.

BUG has 24 total mana sources, while RUG has only 18. That's a huge difference, meaning that the RUG player's one-for-one Wastelands aren't very exciting. At the same time, while RUG has no good means of removing Tarmogoyf maindeck, BUG has a set of Abrupt Decay as well as Lili. Lili is a crucial card in this matchup, and I play three. Likewise, while RUG has no means of generating card advantage beyond a well-placed Fire, BUG has Lili, Bob, and Hymn. Hymn is extremely important in this matchup. RUG has no extra land; a resolved Hymn against RUG is almost guaranteed to hit two relevant cards.

My list is here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=65172

With that list, I cut 3 Force and 2 (Thoughtseize/Daze depending on play or draw) for 2 Disfigure, 2 Submerge, and 1 Clique.

Rich

[Dragonslayer_90]

In my experience, the BUG matchup against RUG is quite favorable. However, I think the fact that the primer advocates cutting two Hymns indicates that my understanding of the matchup is quite different from that of the primer's author. RUG is an excellent aggressive deck, and so the BUG deck is cast into the control role. BUG is forced to establish its manabase, while using its removal spells to halt the initial rush of the RUG player.

BUG has 24 total mana sources, while RUG has only 18. That's a huge difference, meaning that the RUG player's one-for-one Wastelands aren't very exciting. At the same time, while RUG has no good means of removing Tarmogoyf maindeck, BUG has a set of Abrupt Decay as well as Lili. Lili is a crucial card in this matchup, and I play three. Likewise, while RUG has no means of generating card advantage beyond a well-placed Fire, BUG has Lili, Bob, and Hymn. Hymn is extremely important in this matchup. RUG has no extra land; a resolved Hymn against RUG is almost guaranteed to hit two relevant cards.

My list is here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=65172

With that list, I cut 3 Force and 2 (Thoughtseize/Daze depending on play or draw) for 2 Disfigure, 2 Submerge, and 1 Clique.

Rich

I agree that most of the time Team America plays the control role against RUG, though on the play if we have an aggressive opener we might be able put RUG on the backpedal. The trimming of the Hymns in postboard games is a matter of: 1. Having less two drops 2. Having less cards that get worse as the game goes into the mid and late game. However, I see where you are coming from Atog, and I think the way you play the matchup is fine (maybe even better than the approach I described though I can't say for sure without testing).

[btm10]

In my experience, the BUG matchup against RUG is quite favorable. However, I think the fact that the primer advocates cutting two Hymns indicates that my understanding of the matchup is quite different from that of the primer's author. RUG is an excellent aggressive deck, and so the BUG deck is cast into the control role. BUG is forced to establish its manabase, while using its removal spells to halt the initial rush of the RUG player.

BUG has 24 total mana sources, while RUG has only 18. That's a huge difference, meaning that the RUG player's one-for-one Wastelands aren't very exciting. At the same time, while RUG has no good means of removing Tarmogoyf maindeck, BUG has a set of Abrupt Decay as well as Lili. Lili is a crucial card in this matchup, and I play three. Likewise, while RUG has no means of generating card advantage beyond a well-placed Fire, BUG has Lili, Bob, and Hymn. Hymn is extremely important in this matchup. RUG has no extra land; a resolved Hymn against RUG is almost guaranteed to hit two relevant cards.

My list is here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=65172

With that list, I cut 3 Force and 2 (Thoughtseize/Daze depending on play or draw) for 2 Disfigure, 2 Submerge, and 1 Clique.

Rich

Rich Shay (quoted above) runs Weirding as a 1-of in his board and finished 2nd at an IQ earlier this month.

[Barbed Blightning]

Starting to think my 1-1-1 grip/rod/needle package was accidentally the right call

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Esper3k]

Starting to think my 1-1-1 grip/rod/needle package was accidentally the right call

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

Hah yeah if you run all 3, you should have most bases covered.

[Barbed Blightning]

Hah yeah if you run all 3, you should have most bases covered.

Well I'm definitely running grip; card is stupid good. The other two are iffy still

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Esper3k]

Well I'm definitely running grip; card is stupid good. The other two are iffy still

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

[Purgatory]

Played this list to a crisp 5-0, position 1/62, today:

9 Fetch
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Sylvan Library

SB:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Disfigure
2 Submerge
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Winter Orb
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage

My matches:
Bant Fish (2-1)
Junk (2-1)
UG Infect (2-0)
Jund (2-1)
DnT (2-1)

TNN felt very strong. Submerge in the board was really good, and I never faced Miracles, so I only brought WOrb vs Jund.

[KobeBryan]

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

I think Null goes in the Pithing needle spot and the grip is the maelstrom pulse slots. Otherwise your board will be thin like Esper here...who only had 1 surgical and a cage in his sideboard.

He should say...Thank god i didn't run into dredge

[phazonmutant]

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

Definitely on the same page as Esper here. I like Needle over Null Rod because it's a proactive answer to Stoneforge into Batterskull as well as planeswalkers, but on the whole I'd just rather have Pulse. As he mentioned, the highest-impact sideboard cards are ones that allow you to catch up from behind on board - it's not what the deck's strongest suit game 1 so the cards you bring in should try to compensate for that.

Looking for some input on the following list. Seattle's meta is flooded with Tundras and Delvers, but with the Portland Open coming up in late June, I'm preparing for a slew of random decks.
<main>

SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

The sideboard is a bit of a mess and I'm still on the fence about Bob and TNN main. I like Esper3k's theory about high-impact cards (though not necessarily on Envelop :P) so this SB reflects that somewhat I think. Any thoughts?


EDIT: Sturtzilla, I just saw that Trigon Predator in your sideboard. Saucy. Was it as good as my inner Timmy desperately wants it to be?

#scoreboard. Just sayin'...

For real though, I think you need another 1-mana counterspell for when you board out Daze but need blue count (Miracles, Elves), as well as just to gain back some percentages against Sneak and Show. I think I would play the third Disfigure over Deluge, haven't been impressed with a 3 mana wrath that is bad when you're behind on life.

Triangle Predator is pretty spicy. I think it's a bit too cute thought. It's pretty soft to the 8 removal spell UWR Delver deck, it gets eaten by Serra Avenger, and most embarrassingly, it's mediocre against Enchantress. The deck runs 4 ways to prevent damage, 2-4 ways to give their permanents shroud, and 4+ ways to tax your combat step.

[phi]

Very interesting without Liliana. Did you miss her? Why weren't you running her in sb either?