Page 152 of 152 FirstFirst ... 52102142148149150151152
Results 3,021 to 3,037 of 3037

Thread: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

  1. #3021

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggo View Post
    So I've been playing Grixis Tempo for a small lifetime now and with the coming of Assassin's Trophy I feel like changing to BUG since it will have literly all awnsers within it's colors now, next to having the most annoying options of creatures for the opponent to deal with.

    I've been thinking of the following list and wonder what people here think of it.
    I'm a bit unsure about the 2/2/3 split with removal. I'm used to 2 Push/4 Bolt from Grixis, so changing to 2 mana-removal is a bit painfull but proberly worth it.

    Creatures: 9
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Delver of Secrets
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    Enchantments: 3
    2 Bitterblossom
    1 Mirri's Guile

    Counter: 10
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce

    Removal/disrupt: 11
    4 Stifle
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Assassin's Trophy

    Draw: 8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Lands: 19
    4 Wasteland
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta

    Sideboard:
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Darkblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Divert
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Life from the Loam
    I think you won't be happy with the performance of this list - And as already pointed out by several people, more 2cmc removal also means we need to adjust our approach as we will be way more often in a tapped-out (virtually due to AT on hand or for real due the Hymn etc) situation.

    Regarding your list, 9 threats is way too low from my experience and no "big threat" is a huge deal as we do not have Lightning Bolt for additional reach. Miris Guile is just a bad card, don't understand why it's in this list. Stifle / Mongoose can work out but as mentioned above TA was always a more "Tap-Out" type of deck applying tons of pressure from different angles with best in class removal and not too much of a disruption/tempo type of deck, thus I would not included them in this deck. Not gonna start with the SB, several strange choices in there (e.g., 4cmc planeswalker with only 19 lands).

    Moving forward, we have to see whether Team America will stick to Delver or exclude it (and maybe Daze) for Strix and/or Snapcaster mage to become more midrange (maybe something to be discussed in the other BUG thread). For the delver variation, I would recommend to stick with 20 lands, Hymns and all other 2cmc bombs instead of trying to build a BUG-colored canadian treshhold.

  2. #3022

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I do count the 2 Bitterblossom as threats, making it 11 totall. In Grixis I play 11 or 12 with 1 Bitterblossom, but BUG might need the 12-13, as you mentioned it lacks Bolts to finish the game.
    I'll look in to adding the second TNN main.

    I've played Guile for a short time right before the Shaman ban and I loved the card. Tempo want to draw the right cards at the right time, Guile helps doing this every turn. But this might be personal preference.

    The sideboard is janky for sure. I've just cut all red cards from my Grixis SB and added some BUG-stuff I thought might be good. Need some help here but I guess it's also depending on what happends to the meta and what turn out to be good or bad match-ups.

  3. #3023

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    How would you sideboard in the mirror?

    Remove FoW/Hymns? What to 'counter' their plan?

    I'm using toffee's latest list as a reference and what I'm going to play.

  4. #3024

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    How would you sideboard in the mirror?

    Remove FoW/Hymns? What to 'counter' their plan?

    I'm using toffee's latest list as a reference and what I'm going to play.
    SB in the Mirror is quiet difficult but you would exchange FoW for SP & FS, in addition I might cut 1 Hymn and 1-3 Daze to include MC (if they also play three TNN), Liliana or Bitterblossom - I wouldn't cut all the hymns as they generate heavy card advantage which is really important.

    Haven't spent a lot of time on this as I never played the mirror on paper on any tournament.

  5. #3025
    Member
    toffee's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2016
    Location

    italy
    Posts

    64

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    In my opinion, after a lot of mirror tests, I think that Daze is really strong against it..In addition because of the ban of DRS.
    On the draw you can cut 1 HTT in favor of Seize...Cut all Forces.
    So...the side in/out depends on what kind of BUG he played (Mongoose? Stifle? TNN?)...G1 involves how many cards do u want to side in/out.
    About the list you are playing, is it my own or there are differences?

    PS: For all, what do u think about Trophy into BUG Delver? Trophy goes against Daze in some circumstances.....
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  6. #3026

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Anyone can comment my list? More disrupt - counter / stifle / discard. 20 lands. And i won local in row with tier1 decks

  7. #3027

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBrain View Post
    4 Nimble mangoose
    4 delver of secret
    2 true name nemesis

    4 fow
    4 daze
    4 stifle
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    4 thoughtseize
    2 HTT
    2 abrupt
    2 fatal push
    1 Dismember
    1 Liliana od last hope

    4 wasteland
    3 underground sea
    1 bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    1 island
    1 swamp
    4 połkniesz delta
    2 mosty rainforest
    2 verdant catacomb

    Sideboard
    2 dread of Night
    1 bitterblossom
    1 Liliana od last hope
    2 diabolic edict
    2 surgical extraction
    1 toxic delunge
    1 pithing needle
    1 red elemental blast
    1 Dismember
    1 sylvan library
    1 life from the loam
    1 explosives

    After new release i am thinking to -2 push -1 Dismember and add 3x trophy to ruin their basic ka ds if they run on single basic and more land disrupt.
    I like the list but I can't see how Stifle works combined with Hymns and TS since you want to play TS and Hymn as soon as possible. Same for the Stifle, the faster you can hit Fetchland with it, the more impact it has.
    I would either cut Stifle or cut the discard for the 4th Ponder and some Spell Pierce.
    I also feel like 20 land is alot when you are on a Stifle-list and your curve is this low when you have no 2-mana creatures. I think you can get away with 19 lands if you play 4 Brainstorm and 4 Ponder.

  8. #3028
    Member
    toffee's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2016
    Location

    italy
    Posts

    64

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBrain View Post
    Anyone can comment my list? More disrupt - counter / stifle / discard. 20 lands. And i won local in row with tier1 decks
    There will be some situations where:
    "Open with Stifle or tap-out seize?"...maybe with the first option you can lose a turn where you could have done other...
    I think that BUG Delver's philosophy has always been TAP-OUT....so in the last years..
    And if I want to play BUG Delver, personally I prefer TAP-OUT logic.
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  9. #3029

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    PS: For all, what do u think about Trophy into BUG Delver? Trophy goes against Daze in some circumstances.....
    How many basics do multicolor decks play? 2 or 3 max? And against wasteland decks they will fetch them first, so I think this will hardly matter. Also if you destroy a dual and they get a basic, you still cut a color. Later in the game, Daze hardly matters that much.

    I think the flexibility of AT will cover that possible basic.

    I will probably cut 2 edicts for 2 AT.

    And toffee, yes I will be using you exact list.

  10. #3030
    Member
    toffee's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2016
    Location

    italy
    Posts

    64

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    How many basics do multicolor decks play? 2 or 3 max? And against wasteland decks they will fetch them first, so I think this will hardly matter. Also if you destroy a dual and they get a basic, you still cut a color. Later in the game, Daze hardly matters that much.

    I think the flexibility of AT will cover that possible basic.

    I will probably cut 2 edicts for 2 AT.

    And toffee, yes I will be using you exact list.
    If u will play at some tournaments before the release, I will need your small report
    B U G
    born by a broken condom. grown in a manger.
    twitter.com/toffino

  11. #3031

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I want reach many options. If i open TSeize and Stifle i play Tseize. There always will be something to stifle or still its fuel for fow. Dont forget about opposite wastelandy, mystic, storm trigger etc. Now i am playing on 19lands. I CIT swamp and i put out 1 Dismember and 1 Liliana for 3 AT.
    Tomorrow will be another weekly event. Wll see

  12. #3032

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Having a lot of options is great. But the downside can be that you have too many options and end up doing nothing or redundant things.
    While Stifle can hit multiple things, it's design in the decks is to Stifle the mana. Not having the mana means there are no resources to deploy what ever the opponents want's to do. Discard is removing what ever the opponent wants to deploy.

    The questions that you can ask:
    Why attack the mana when you remove what they want to cast anyways?
    Or:
    Why remove what they want to cast when you can attack the mana so they are unable to cast is anyways?

    It could work to do both, but why do both when you can do one of these things better or more consistent? E.g. not cutting down on card selection.


    Anyway, I'm a huge Stifle fan since it's a better top deck for the reasons you mentioned. Even when it's bad, it can still be pitched to FoW and it can stop a lot of other things apart from fetch-lands.

  13. #3033

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I understand but now metagame is still evolving and players try to think outside the box. Me too. I played against UR delver with Bomat. His face after stifle his bomat Magic...priceless. Same against storm or miracle trigger. Last week i played against miracle two rounds and won with mangoose which cat be touched and his terminie cant resolve with my stifle. Good games

  14. #3034

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Last Friday I won again but with new set.

    Lands:19
    4 wasteland
    4 polluted delta
    2 verdant catacomb
    2 misty rainforest
    3 underground sea
    2 tropical island
    1 bayou
    1 island

    Threads:10
    4 Delver fo Secrets
    4 Nimble Mangoose
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    Spells/Delver Flip:32
    4 Daze
    4 Fow
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Ponder
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Hymn to tourach
    2 Spell pierce
    1 Surgical Extraction

    SB:
    3 Diabolic Edict
    2 Liliana of the last hope
    2 dread of night
    1 sylvan library
    1 toxic delunge
    1 blue elemental blast
    1 surgical extraction
    1 life from the loam
    1 Bitterblossom
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle

    Round1 vs OmniTell
    Game1: I put turn one Delver and flip it. In second turn I cast Thoughtseize and ruin his SnT. after couple of turns with stifle his land and destroy land Delver kill him.
    Side in: 3 diabolic 1 surgical Side Out: 2 abrupt 2 fatal push
    Game2: he play Volcanic and ponder. I wasteland his land and he play fetch goes for island. I play fetch and go for land play ponder. he tried to cast brainstorm but I daze him. after he daze mine he resolve brainstorm and I cast surgical to his brainstorm. I ruin his top deck. next turn I top deck force of will and I can protect my HTT. after I clear his hand we have played over 10 turns because I can't draw any threat but number fo my counter and discard was so big that he can't do anything.
    2:0

    Round2 vs Lands
    Game1 my opponent start with very good 2xmox and accessories to loam at first turn. it was very good and I can't stop him.
    Side In: 1 pithing needle 1 bitter blossom 1 loam 1 surgical 1sylvan library 3 diabolic edict
    Side Out: 4 Thoughtseize 2 HTT 2 Fatal push
    Game 2 I won because of diabolic edict to his monster and kill by Bitterblossom
    Game 3 start by his Alpine to the Moon on my Wastelands. I was very surprised. I cast delver and down him to low life then I use stifle two times and stop his combo. nimble mangoose killed his game

    Round3 vs UR Delver
    well known match up for me. its very hard if he draw perfect threat and protect it but fast TNN do the job when we counter 3 burn spells
    I play against him over 30 games so I can't describe to don't mix our games here hehe

    I am very confident with this build and I think it can beat a lot of decks.
    I won two times against Miracles and against Reanimator I have very good result.

  15. #3035
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    852

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toffee View Post
    In my opinion, after a lot of mirror tests, I think that Daze is really strong against it..In addition because of the ban of DRS.
    On the draw you can cut 1 HTT in favor of Seize...Cut all Forces.
    Isn't anyone on the traditional "Daze when OTP, FoW when OTD" plan anymore?
    I always felt that was a very decent plan.

    On the play we have a card less, but we have the initiative, in which case Daze really shines.
    On the draw we are behind in development, but we have a card more. Dazing would put us even further behind, while FoW could help regain the initiative at the expense of that extra card.

    About Stifle vs. Thoughtseize:
    I would agree that they don't really work well together. It's probably best to choose. If you run Stifle, I would recommend also adding a few CMC1 counterspells (Pierce/Snare/?) so you have more to do when you keep mana open. If you go for the tapout strat, you might need more removal for situations where their threats slip through our disruption. For the tapout strat, I usually went only free counterspells main board, and brought in mana costing counterspells only for post board games against combo or when main board cards proved ineffective. That way I was always able to tap out without thinking.

    I've played both strategies, and both are very viable, but I've always felt the Stifle route was more consistent, and the tapout+discard route was a tad easier to play.

  16. #3036

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Isn't anyone on the traditional "Daze when OTP, FoW when OTD" plan anymore?
    I always felt that was a very decent plan.

    On the play we have a card less, but we have the initiative, in which case Daze really shines.
    On the draw we are behind in development, but we have a card more. Dazing would put us even further behind, while FoW could help regain the initiative at the expense of that extra card.
    In Grixis Tempo (same as most tempo decks), when sideboarding, I always check for the cards I want to bring in, then cut 'bad' cards main deck and see how it fits. If I need more slots to bring in sideboard cards I just ask the question: what would be more impactfull: Daze/FoW or the card I want to bring?
    This leads to not always cutting either 4 FoW or 4 Daze depending on play/draw. It's really depending on the match-up. Most of the time I end up cutting either 2 FoW or 2 Daze since I swap other cards around first and board around 6 cards in most matches.
    The glory of playing Tempo is having everything you need. You just need to have it at the right time

  17. #3037

    Re: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Alright, did some testing with my new BUG list and got to the following list:

    Lands [19]
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures [11]
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Sultai Scavenger
    2 Nivmagus Elemental
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    Spells [30]
    1 Mirri's Guile
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Fatal Push
    4 Assassin's Trophy

    Sideboard [15]
    1 Darkblast
    1 Dread of Night
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Divert
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Unmoored Ego
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Bitterblossom

    What I've tested:
    - Mandrills instead of Scavengers > seems like a fine card, should be good in several match-ups but I missed the flying evasion
    - Anglers > fine card if you don't want Scavengers and don't mind walking into walls
    - Nimble Mongoose > not really tried it, didn't make the cut after goldfishing for a while. Never felt like I got 7 cards in the grave when I wanted to (for example, hand is empty or close to empty). Might be my playstyle.
    - 3 Decay/3 Trophy split > Loved trophy, felt 'meh' with Decay. Tried 2 Push/4 Trophy next, loved it
    - 3 Trops/2 Sea > swapped to 2 Trops/3 Sea when I swapped decays for Push. I like the setup now

    Some odd-balls in the deck:
    - 1 Flusterstorm > instead of Pierce #3. Gives some cool party tricks with Nivmagus Elemental
    - 2 Nivmagus Elemental > I wanted additional 1-drops for the deck and figured there are always cards getting countered. Now they add value when countered. Also cards like Daze and Stifle lose some value later on in the game, now they keep some value. Missing out on Bolt to close out games is something you miss in BUG. Now I can transfer Push/Decay/Tropy into counters in match-ups I don't need them. With a Guile in play the need to cast cantrips falls off, now I can put them to other use. And, like mantioned at flusterstorm, you can do some funny party-tricks by adding a ton of counters with the storm-trigger.

    When testing the Nivmagus Elemental did really well. Getting 2-4 counters at any point in the game already made a huge impact. I don't think you ever want to play more then 2 since you don't really want 2 in play at the same time.

    2 TNN main seemd fine with 19 land where I never liked to have more then 1 3-mana-spell while having 18 lands.
    19 lands seems the right number. Not much flooding and a good amount of Fetch for Brainstorm, filling grave or shuffle the top for Guile.

    Need some help with the sideboard since I don't know what bad match-ups BUG had in the past and what it now has when using the catch-everything-trophy.
    Questionable SB cards for how I see it:
    1 Darkblast
    1 Dread of Night
    2 Golgari Charms
    Seems like it's too much -1/-1 effects

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)