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Thread: [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

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    [Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)






    Table of Contents

    I. Overview
    II. History
    III. Core List
    IV. Maindeck Flex Slots
    V. Common Sideboard Cards
    VI. General Strategic Guidelines
    VII. Matchup Analysis and Sideboarding Guide
    VIII. Other Successful Lists
    IX. Further Reading


    I. Overview

    Team America (A.K.A. BUG Delver) is fundamentally an Aggro-Control deck. The current face of Team America splices elements of Blue-based Tempo and BGx midrange. This composition allows the deck to make powerful plays in the early game and still be able to play magic into the mid and late game. The deck looks to generate tempo through a ďTap outĒ method with an early Deathrite Shaman. The idea of Tapout tempo is to cast lots of cheap spells and hold up manaless counters in the early game to get so far ahead your that your opponent has a hard time getting back into the game. Proactive discard, manaless counters, the uncounterable Abrupt Decay, and high quality creatures allows this deck to accel at generating tempo. The deck usually plays around 14 creatures total. All of these creatures are so good that they must be answered right away as they end the game quickly (Delver of Secrets, Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker) or take over the game by allowing you to get so far ahead (Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman). The cantrip suite of Brainstorm and Ponder enables a consistency that is the hallmark of Legacyís tempo strategies.


    II. History

    The deck itself has an interesting history to its creation as it started out as joke deck of David Gearhartís. In its primordial form, it was originally just Blue-Black, played Tombstalkers and Confidants as threats, and had Team Americaís early land destruction package of Sinkhole and Wasteland. Also, it had no removal and main decked four Extirpates. "To say the least it was pretty bad (although pretty fun to play)" said Daniel Signorini about the first iteration of Team America. Eventually, Dan and David started working on the deck to make it more competitive, at one point adding Phyrexian dreadnoughts and snuff outs. When they decided to try out Goyf the deck began to come into its own:

    4 Tombstalker
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Snuff Out
    4 Sinkhole

    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou

    Sideboard:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    4 Krosan Grip
    3 Diabolic Edict

    A far cry from present-day lists. The additions of Delver of Secrets, Liliana of the Veil, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay in recent years have enabled Team America to become one of the most competitive tempo decks in Legacy.


    III. Core List

    The current core of Team America consists of the following cards:

    Creatures

    4 Deathrite Shaman - The best creature in the deck. He does it all: acceleration, threat, and stabilizer. While not as aggressive as a Turn One Delver, this card enables some of most insane starts for the deck.

    4 Delver of Secrets - The namesake of legacy's tempo decks. This card helps the deck put pressure on your opponent fast and is at its best when played within the first two turns. You should never play less than four for this reason alone.

    4 Tarmogoyf - Good ol' Goyf. This card provides a huge body at such low cost that can stabilize the board against more aggressive creature decks and clock combo, midrange, and control pretty fast.

    Instants

    4 Brainstorm - Arguably the best card in legacy. With a fetchland its almost Ancestral Recall. In this deck Brainstorm helps ensure our Delvers flip in addition to all its other amazing uses.

    3-4 Abrupt Decay - The other reason to play Green and Black. While less efficient than Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares, it makes up for it by being uncounterable and more flexible overall.

    3-4 Force of Will - Often called "the glue" that holds Legacy together. While bad in fair matchups, it is still a manaless catch-all answer that can be used to out-tempo your opponent when used rightly.

    3-4 Daze - The other manaless counter that helps the deck generate tempo. You should be less selective with this spell in what you want to counter much of the time since Daze gets worse as the the game goes into the mid and late game. There are exceptions to this though, like when you want save it for a counter war against a combo deck.

    Sorceries

    3-4 Ponder - Pretty much Brainstorm 5-8, though without a fetch it is usually better than Brainstorm at digging for answers or action. Personally I'm hesitant to play less than 4 since cantrips allow tempo decks to be highly consistent and adaptable to many different situations. I would never go below 3.

    3-4 Hymn to Tourach - Consider this card the Stifle of the deck as you often want it to hit lands when you play it. It is less consistent than Stifle at denying your opponent mana but more explosive and does much more in general. At its best when played in the early game to force your opponent to stumble.

    The Mana Base

    The configuration of the mana base depends on your build. More blue heavy builds usually run a 2-1 split between Tropical Island and Bayou respectively while traditional black heavy builds run the reverse split. Anways, here's a skeleton for Team America's manabase:

    8-9 BUG Color fetches
    1-2 Tropical Island
    1-2 Bayou
    3-4 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland - Not really a land, but don't be hesitant to use for mana it if it gets a Goyf on the table!


    IV. Maindeck Flex Slots

    Assuming you follow the above core list, the remaining slots are usually filled with following cards, depending on meta and preference:

    Creatures

    1-3 Tombstalkers - The traditional "resilient" beater of the deck. He's fantastic against any fair deck not playing white. Best in metas with not too many Swords, Jace, Rest in Peace, etc.
    1-2 Dark Confidant - Bob provides the deck another angle of attack by giving it more grinding power. He will not end the game fast like Tombstalker, but like Deathrite Shaman he will put you so far ahead that you should eventually win.
    1-2 True-Name Nemesis - The most resilient threat for the deck to fill out the last few creature slots.

    Instant

    1-2 Disfigure - A supplemental removal spell. Effective for killing must kill one-drops like Mother of Runes, Goblin Lackey, opposing Deathrite Shamans, etc.

    1 Dismember - Another supplemental removal spell that can kill more creatures than Disfigure. This card can often kill a Goyf. However, the potential life loss can sometimes matter.

    Sorcery

    2-4 Thoughtseize - The other discard spell to consider. Less exposive than Hymn to Tourach but more consistent since you get to choose what card to take. The information is often very helpful as well.

    Misc.

    1-3 Liliana of the Veil - This card is a peculiar consideration at first since planeswalkers have not traditionally been part of tempo maindecks. However, Liliana provides awesome incremental advantage at such a low cost, making her the exception. Played Turn 2 off a Deathrite is a particularly powerful play that can shut down many decks. In Team America she allows you to grind into the mid and late game.

    1 Sylvan Library - Your other option for cheap incremental advantage. Think of it as mini-Jace.


    V. Common Sideboard Cards

    Creatures

    1-2 Vendilion Clique - The most common creature in a Team America sideboard. Great against combo, control, and any deck with Stoneforge Mystic.

    Instants

    1-2 Diabolic Edict - Another supplemental removal spell. This effect is already provided well enough by Liliana of the Veil, but its not unheard of to see this in some sideboards for those who want a mix of removal.

    2-3 Disfigure - Same reason as in previous section.

    1 Dismember - Same reason as in previous section.

    2-3 Golgari Charm - One of the best sideboard cards Team America has access to. You will mostly use its first two modes, but the third can be put to good use sometimes.

    1-2 Krosan Grip - Mostly an answer to Batterskull but can be used to good effect in other matchups.

    2-3 Spell Pierce - For those times where you want more counter magic, which is usually against combo and control.

    Sorceries

    1 Hymn to Tourach - For those who want another Hymn in some matchups.

    1-2 Thoughtseize - For those who want more spot discard postboard.

    Misc.

    1-2 Grafdigger's Cage - Your primary graveyard hate card with the added bonus of being phenomenal against Elves.

    1 Null Rod - Even if this isn't vintage, there are still powerful artifacts you want to hate on.

    1-2 Pithing Needle - A highly flexible hate card since there are many permanents with activated abilities being used.

    1-2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor - This card is very helpful in grindy matchups where your mana base is not pressured too much like against blade decks and the mirror. It should also be noted that Jace helps out a lot in the miracles matchup, which can be tough for Team America sometimes.

    1-2 Liliana of the Veil - Sometimes you want more Lilianas postboard.

    1 Sylvan Library - This card is a very good singleton sb card as well. In some matchups it doesn't do enough so sometimes its just better to have it in the board to bring it in for those matchups you actually want it.


    VI. General Strategic Guidlines

    Here are some guildlines to keep in mind when playing Team America:

    1. DEATHRITE SHAMAN IS KING: Turn one against an unknown opponent Deathrite Shaman is this deck's best first play. To quote Bob Huang: "I go Deathrite Shaman into Hymn to Tourach, discarding two lands, and crush him. Team America has so many broken openings like this one. Deathrite Shaman + Hymn to Tourach + Daze Wasteland Delver of Secrets is incredibly backbreaking against almost every deck in the format."

    2. THIS IS NOT RUG DELVER: I mentioned earlier that this deck seeks to generate Tempo through a "Tapout" method. With traditional builds you are often better off trying to cast as many spells as possible in the early game. There exceptions to this though. For instance, it is best to play one threat at a time for the most part against miracles if you can afford to so that they don't get value out of Terminus.
    .
    3. DISRUPTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THREATS MUCH OF THE TIME: There are times where the opening hands of this deck are either very threat heavy with no disruption and disruption heavy with no threats. Since this is legacy, heavy disruption hands are better in most situations than threat heavy hands. Interacting with your opponent is key in many games, especially against combo. Again though it's all dependent on the match up. In the dark though, I'm fine keeping a disruption heavy hand, especially if it has a cantrip or two. On the other hand I'm hesitant to keep a threat heavy hand in the dark because you will just be dead to any combo deck unless they brick really hard.


    VII. Matchup Analysis and Sideboarding Guide

    The purpose of this section is to give an idea what to do against decks considered Tier 1-1.5. Credit goes to Bob Huang for the sideboarding advice and some of the matchup analysis. Keep in mind that the sideboarding advice is just to give you an idea of how to sideboard with this deck and is influenced by Bob Huang's playstyle. You should really be sideboarding in response to how your opponent plays and what they do in postboard games. Also, keep in mind all matchup ratings apply to Game 1 only. Match ups may become favorable, even, or unfavorable postboard, in which case I will state how much better or worse a matchup becomes postboard.

    First things first, the sideboarding advice refers to Lawrence Moo Young's Open winning list:

    BUG Delver by Lawrence Moo Young
    1st at SCG Legacy Open Orlando

    Creatures (14)

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Tombstalker

    Planeswalkers (2)

    2 Liliana of the Veil

    Instants (16)

    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    Sorceries (8)

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Ponder

    Lands (20)

    2 Bayou
    1 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard

    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    3 Disfigure
    3 Golgari Charm
    1 Krosan Grip
    3 Spell Pierce
    1 Submerge
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Creeping Tar Pit

    Here is the guide itself:

    RUG Delver Favored

    -4 FoW, -2 Hymn on play, - 2 Daze, -2 FoW, -2 Hymn on draw

    +3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

    RUG is still alive and kicking. On the play you need to respect Stifle more. Some people like to keep to Force of Will on the draw so that you don't get too far behind. As long as you can establish your landbase and not die, you should be able to win since your have cards much more powerful than theirs.


    UWR Delver Even

    -1 Tombstalker, -4 FoW, -4 Daze

    +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana

    This matchup can be pretty skill intensive. If neither side can successfully execute a one-sided blow out the game becomes really grindy. While TNN is something to respect, Stoneforge Mystic is usually more scary since they can often shut you down with an early Batterskull. This means it might be worth to hold back onto that one Abrupt Decay instead of killing that Delver if there's a chance they have Stoneforge in their hand. Also, since they play so much more removal than RUG, it might be better to play discard spells prior to playing threats in the early game.

    ANT Favored

    -2 Tombstalker, -1 Bayou, -3 Abrupt Decay

    +1 Grafdiggerís, +3 Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana

    This matchup is pretty easy in my opinion as long as you know how their deck works. There's not too much to say here. Play a threat early and disrupt them as they get clocked. Hymn is a beast in this matchup since they need a critical mass of cards to go off. Play Golgari Charm over Abrupt Decay if you see Burning Wish since that makes it more likely that they have access to Empty the Warrens. Otherwise Abrupt Decay is better since it can kill LED.

    Elves Unfavored

    -1 Bayou, -4 Daze, -4 Hymn, -2 Liliana

    +1 Grafdiggerís, +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Submerge

    Ah Combo Elves. One of the most interesting and frustrating matchups. Game 1 you must focus on tempoing them out. Preboard you lack the tools to keep control of the board for long. Your flyers (Delver/ Tombstalker if you have them) are your best threats. Post board you get a little more wiggle room in your game plan but should still focus on closing the game out as soon as possible since Elves has the ability both to race us without comboing off and grind us out with their synergies. Postboard Natural Order for Craterhoof becomes more difficult since you have so much removal so you usually just have to keep them off Natural Order for Proggy or Glimpse.


    EsperBlade Even or Unfavored

    -1 Bayou, -1 Sea, -4 FoW, -2 Tombstalker, -2 Daze

    +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

    I find this matchup to be highly dependent on the list. Stock TNN lists are even in my opinion since we have ways to deal with/ race TNN. More traditional lists with Lingering Souls are more of a headache, turning the matchup into an unfavorable one preboard at least. Either way we are definitely the beat down. Try to get them to stumble with wasteland and Hymn. Donít overextend into Supreme Verdict if you can afford to. Like the UWR matchup Stoneforge Mystic is more scary and usually is a must kill/counter on sight. Also, donít let them resolve Jace. Youíre going have a bad day if they do except in corner cases where you too far ahead for it to matter.

    BUG Delver Even

    -4 FoW, -1 Daze

    +3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Liliana

    I find the mirror to be even like UWR Delver in which the die roll can heavily influence the outcome and games either end quickly via one-sided blowouts or after a long war of attrition where the person who can stick a threat the longest or generate an insurmountable advantage wins. Deathrite Shamanís pretty important in the mirror and thus you should not let one stick. If your opponent has one and you donít, it is easy to fall behind fast.

    Sneak and Show Favored

    -1 Bayou, -2 Tombstalker, -4 Abrupt Decay

    +1 Liliana, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 KGrip, +1 Golgari Charm

    This matchup, to put it simply, is like any other combo matchup with a tempo deck: have disruption backed up by a clock. Preboard the business spells you have to prevent from resolving are Show and Tell and Sneak Attack. Postboard sneak and show players usually bring in more business in the form of some number of blood moons and through the breach. Blood Moon is the reason you want to consider bringing in a couple golgari charm or keep in some Abrupt Decay since your going to lose if that card resolves when you have little to no pressure on board. Even if you have some threats on board when they blood moon you you might still very well lose because you can't cast anything but force of will, which Sneak and Show can very well beat if that's all you have for disruption. Overall, the matchup is favorable for us, especially if they have no Leyline of Sanctity to bring post board.

    Death and Taxes Unfavored

    -4 FoW, -4 Daze, -2 Ponder

    +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

    This MU is usually bad preboard. Postboard it gets much better since you have all the removal in the world to kill all their stupid white creatures. Iím usually a fan of keeping Liliana and Hymn in even though itís a risk with potential sb Wilt-Leaf Lieges. However, they have no card advantage so hymn and Liliana are brutal when they donít have their lieges.

    Death Blade Even

    -4 FoW, -1 Sea, -4 Daze

    +3 Disfigure, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

    Legacyís premiere goodstuff deck. All advice for Esperblade pretty much applies here except Tombstalker is playable here since they have fewer Jaces usually and no Rest in Peace postboard.

    Shardless BUG Unfavorable

    -4 FoW, -1 Sea, -1 Abrupt Decay

    +3 Disfigure, +1 Submerge, +1 Tar Pit, +1 Liliana

    Hymn and wasteland are your best friends in this match up. You need to try and get them to stumble with those cards and other disruption since they will out value you in the long run if you donít.

    Miracles Even

    -1 Bayou, -1 Sea, -2 Tombstalker, -4 Daze, -2 Deathrite Shaman
    +3 Golgari Charm, +1 KGrip, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Clique, +1 Liliana, +1 Tar Pit

    This matchup is about killing them as fast as you can without overextending into Terminus. However, with that said, know when itís time to get all your dudes on the board for an alpha strike. Use your discard and Liliana to grind their hand down while also clocking them. Postboard you want to side in any permanent based hate or advantage generators like Pithing Needle, Null Rod, Sylvan Library, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, etc.


    VIII. Other Successful Lists

    BUG Delver
    Greg Mitchell
    1st Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 3/16/2014

    Creatures (14)

    1 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Tombstalker
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    Planeswalkers (1)

    1 Liliana of the Veil
    Lands (20)

    2 Bayou
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    Spells (25)

    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Daze
    2 Disfigure
    3 Force of Will
    1 Spell Pierce
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Ponder
    2 Thoughtseize
    Sideboard

    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Disfigure
    1 Envelop
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Maelstrom Pulse

    BUG Delver
    Javier Dominguez
    1st Place at Grand Prix on 2/16/2014
    Legacy


    Creatures (14)

    2 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    Planeswalkers (3)

    3 Liliana of the Veil
    Lands (20)

    2 Bayou
    1 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    Spells (23)

    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Ponder
    2 Thoughtseize
    Sideboard

    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Null Rod
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Diabolic Edict
    2 Disfigure
    1 Dismember
    1 Force of Will
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Hymn to Tourach

    BUG Delver
    Daniel Signorini
    9th Place at Grand Prix on 11/17/2013
    Legacy


    Creatures (14)

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Tombstalker
    Lands (20)

    2 Bayou
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    Spells (26)

    1 Sylvan Library
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    1 Disfigure
    4 Force of Will
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Ponder
    Sideboard

    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Disfigure
    3 Golgari Charm
    1 Krosan Grip
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Creeping Tar Pit

    IX. Helpful Articles
    Rich Shay's SCG Columbus Report
    Greg Mitchell's SCG Seattle Report
    Bob Huang's SCG Baltimore Report
    Bob Huang's GP DC and SCG Providence Report
    The Old Primer

    Shout out to Daniel Signorini, Bob Huang, and anyone else who was instrumental in making Team America what it is today. I'd also like to thank TheArchitect for the banner above and Einherjer for providing good points for the miracles matchup analysis. And remember guys, the deck is called:


    (Thank shrubs for this one XD)
    Last edited by Dragonslayer_90; 07-04-2014 at 11:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    I'm a crusty "old" player who would play nothing but Vintage, Legacy and 93/94 if I could, so I'm probably biased...but I'll never understand the draw to Modern. It's the Communist Soviet Union of MtG formats.
    In regards to Legacy:
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    I dont know, I guess I like the anarchistic, outlaw format that allows everything and can thrive with or without the papal blessing.

  2. #2
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    Re: Team America (BUG Delver)

    you better tell the mods cuz people still post in the old bant thread instead of the one i created.

  3. #3

    Re: Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    you better tell the mods cuz people still post in the old bant thread instead of the one i created.
    I did. I specifically created this one for Zilla to swap it out with the old one. Zilla should be doing that within a day or so I assume.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    I'm a crusty "old" player who would play nothing but Vintage, Legacy and 93/94 if I could, so I'm probably biased...but I'll never understand the draw to Modern. It's the Communist Soviet Union of MtG formats.
    In regards to Legacy:
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    I dont know, I guess I like the anarchistic, outlaw format that allows everything and can thrive with or without the papal blessing.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Question about the primer: the sideboard guide for Canadian Thresh tells me to side -2 Hymn, -2 Daze, -2 FoW on the draw. Why this split?
    Do we really want the two Forces? Why keep two Dazes? Daze is bad late game, so I would say it's probably best to either play the full set and maximize our chances to have it early, or to cut them all and play a few Pierces instead, to try and protect our guys from removal. Is that wrong reasoning?

  5. #5

    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Question about the primer: the sideboard guide for Canadian Thresh tells me to side -2 Hymn, -2 Daze, -2 FoW on the draw. Why this split?
    Do we really want the two Forces? Why keep two Dazes? Daze is bad late game, so I would say it's probably best to either play the full set and maximize our chances to have it early, or to cut them all and play a few Pierces instead, to try and protect our guys from removal. Is that wrong reasoning?
    You are not completely wrong in your reasoning. I think you have valid arguments to sideboard differently than the way I have listed. Keep in mind though that this advice was provided by Akatsuki a while ago in the old thread when he posted a sideboard guide and is thus influenced by his playstyle. I am not sure if I entirely agree with him myself but I will attempt to justify his choices anyways:

    1. Having all Hymns out on the draw is understandable if you have better cards to bring in as it's at least recognizably less impactful on the draw even if not as bad as Daze on the draw.

    2. Keeping two Dazes in on the draw I imagine is to both keep blue count up for those two Force of Wills and because in fair matchups it hits the things we care about most, which are creature based threats.

    3. Keeping two Force of Will on the draw is not entirely unheard of. I've made that a regular practice against RUG since being on the draw against a deck with Stifle can hurt. So it's partly to not get blown out by stifle but also it's there to not fall too behind in general. I've been starting to keep two Force of Wills in on the draw against any Delver deck when I'm playing Team America. I find it can be a real life saver sometimes because Delver mirrors can be really swingy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    I'm a crusty "old" player who would play nothing but Vintage, Legacy and 93/94 if I could, so I'm probably biased...but I'll never understand the draw to Modern. It's the Communist Soviet Union of MtG formats.
    In regards to Legacy:
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    I dont know, I guess I like the anarchistic, outlaw format that allows everything and can thrive with or without the papal blessing.

  6. #6

    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Sneak and Show Unfavored
    This is all I needed to see. MWAHAHA!!! :-P

    Seriously though, nice write up, Sith. Very detailed and informative.
    Last edited by Unassigned; 04-08-2014 at 10:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmythegreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    --Complaining about combo decks, cheap threats, and less player interaction--
    Welcome to legacy bra.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    @Dragonslayer: Thanks for the explanation! I guess it indeed depends a lot on style. And I'm not sure mine is the correct style.

    @Unassigned: Sneak&Show isn't that bad if you play the full set of Pierces on side. I score about 50% against it right now, so maybe it's more like "even".

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I'm not a fan of keeping Dazes in vs RUG on the draw either. RUG wins by mana denial while attacking with efficient threats. 1) Daze is a card you want to see early. Trimming to just 2 is too wishy washy too me on top of massively decreasing your chances of seeing it when you need it most. 2) I hate setting myself back a land when you!'really already going to be under a good amount of pressure as well as making their taxing counters better.

    I usually keep in 2-3 FoW on the draw and save it for Mongoose / Stifle. While I feel the matchup is actually unfavorable for us, if we stabilize at around 3 mana, our more powerful spells should be able to carry us to a win.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    @Dragonslayer: Thanks for the explanation! I guess it indeed depends a lot on style. And I'm not sure mine is the correct style.

    @Unassigned: Sneak&Show isn't that bad if you play the full set of Pierces on side. I score about 50% against it right now, so maybe it's more like "even".
    You have skewed your sideboard plan and you're still about even with it. That makes it a bad MU as far as I can tell. ;)

    An excellent piece. I'll read it more in depth throughout this evening. Thanks! :D
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    That's.... that's not how deckbuilding works.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiJoey View Post
    You have skewed your sideboard plan
    I didn't. I chose. Instead of playing 1x Envelop, 1x Fluster and 1-2x Pierce, I decided Pierce is overall the best and most versatile card, and I went for the full set. The main reason is that sitting on an Envelop sucks when the opponent plays Sneak Attack, Silence or whatever else Envelop doesn't hit. Fluster is already a bit more versatile, but it still doesn't hit enchantments or Planeswalkers.

    Edit: my list for reference:

    4 Deathrite, 4 Delver, 4 Goyf, 2 Stalker
    4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Force, 4 Daze, 4 Hymn, 4 Decay, 1 Sylvan, 1 Liliana
    4 Sea, 2 Bayou, 1 Tropical, 9 Fetch, 4 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    4 Spell Pierce
    3 Disfigure
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Krosan Grip

    The second Sylvan on side is an unsure slot. Other options: a third Lily, a lone Submerge or Creeping Tar Pit or a fourth Disfigure. Thied the full set of Disfigures last weekend and sided them all in three out of five rounds, so I cannot say it was bad, but I'm not sold on it either.

  11. #11
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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    I'm not a fan of keeping Dazes in vs RUG on the draw either. RUG wins by mana denial while attacking with efficient threats. 1) Daze is a card you want to see early. Trimming to just 2 is too wishy washy too me on top of massively decreasing your chances of seeing it when you need it most. 2) I hate setting myself back a land when you!'really already going to be under a good amount of pressure as well as making their taxing counters better.

    I usually keep in 2-3 FoW on the draw and save it for Mongoose / Stifle. While I feel the matchup is actually unfavorable for us, if we stabilize at around 3 mana, our more powerful spells should be able to carry us to a win.
    RUG always has an edge on other tempo decks because of stifle, but I still thing BUG has a solid edge against RUG thanks to said powerful spells.

    Personally, I'd cut all counters for removal, including extra Lillys, and spell pierce.

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  12. #12

    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Thanks for all the compliments. I worked pretty hard on the primer. I have two comments on the discussions going around right now:

    1. Sneak and Show is definitely at least even postboard for most configurations of Team America. But even then you might just die to one of their nutdraws without being able to really do anything. That's just the nature of the beast we have to fight against sometimes.

    2. RUG, on the other hand, I find us to be favored simply because we have more powerful cards than them. I might be scared if I'm on the draw and they have a Turn One Delver, but really as long as you play tightly you should be able to beat them in the long run. Like any Delver mirror it can be swingy but tight play will often help you get there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    I'm a crusty "old" player who would play nothing but Vintage, Legacy and 93/94 if I could, so I'm probably biased...but I'll never understand the draw to Modern. It's the Communist Soviet Union of MtG formats.
    In regards to Legacy:
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    I dont know, I guess I like the anarchistic, outlaw format that allows everything and can thrive with or without the papal blessing.

  13. #13
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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    It's weird. I always feel much more comfortable in the Sneaky Show matchup than in the RUG matchup. Sure, Sneaky Show's nut hands on the play are insane but we're just much more consistent than they are, especially post board.

    Maybe the RUG players in my area are just much better than the Sneaky Show players?

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    RUG is a pain in the butt for TA. when they bring in submerge game 2 and then more, its gonna be annoying.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Maybe the RUG players in my area are just much better than the Sneaky Show players?
    This could be a thing. I have the same experience.

    I lost a final against Canadian because that player was VERY good. The semis I won against Sneak&show quite easily (okay game 2 was over in 1 second: he went turn 1 Blood Moon and I had no Force. But the other games were easy.)

  16. #16

    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I think the only way to lose against RUG is with Stifle+Waste lock. If you play around that and take mulligans properly you should be OK, I mean they can't kill our Goyfs and can't deal with Tombstalker either, you should try to keep their Delvers "decayed" and protect your shamans if possible.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Quote Originally Posted by toletole View Post
    I think the only way to lose against RUG is with Stifle+Waste lock. If you play around that and take mulligans properly you should be OK, I mean they can't kill our Goyfs and can't deal with Tombstalker either, you should try to keep their Delvers "decayed" and protect your shamans if possible.
    I disagree. You can easily lose to their one-of True-Name Nemesis. Submerge on your Tombstalker is also a nuisance, and protecting Deathrite from their burn is almost impossible. In my opinion this matchup is still very loseable when you manage to get your lands into play.

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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    It's easy to just say "play around Stifle/Wasteland/Daxe" but in practice, you often just don't have good options. It's not like you're going to throw away a 2 land hand with DRS just to look for that 4 land hand.

    As Asthereal said, Submerge is a real issue post board, especially on the Tombstalkers. Again, you can always say "don play a forest" but now you're significantly gimping your manabase and any experienced RUG player is saving their removal for DRS, not your Delvers.

  19. #19

    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying you have enough tools to have a fair game if you manage to avoid Stifle+Waste lock. Lilianas, disfigures, decays, submerge, shamans, tombstalker... it's not like "hey they have submerge, we lose lol"

  20. #20
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    Re: [DTB] Team America (BUG Delver)

    Thanks for the updated primer, Sith! It was a good read. I wanted to post about my recent exploits with BUG Delver. I played in a SCG IQ over the weekend at Mr. Nice Guys in Monroeville, PA this past Saturday. I also played in my local legacy event last night at Kidforce Collectibles in Berea, OH. I Top 8ed the SCG IQ and won locals last night. Here is the decklist and a quick tournament report!

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Dark Confidant
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    1 Spell Pierce
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Disfigure
    4 Daze
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Abrupt Decay
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Force of Will
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Disfigure
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Dismember
    1 Trygon Predator
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Submerge
    1 Force of Will

    At the SCG IQ I played against the BUG Delver mirror (1-1-1), Dredge (2-0), Dredge (2-0), Lands (2-1) and was able to ID in the last round to secure 3rd place in the Top 8. I played Jund in the quaterfinals and lost (0-2). Flooded out both games in the Top 8. Sometimes that is how cards work. Deck felt very strong and well tuned. I also played a handful of games against a friend playing Hide Tide for fun and didn't drop a game in this testing.

    At locals this week I played against Dredge (2-1), BUG Delver (2-1), Omnitell (2-1), and UWR Delver (2-1). I drew with my opponent in the last round to secure a 1st/2nd prize split but we played out the game for the experience. Preboard the match felt pretty even but post board I felt pretty advantaged. Just a fun sidenote: in Game 3 versus Omnitell, I had him at 6 life, with 1 card in hand due to a Liliana, which I had ultimated once splitting his lands. The Liliana was back up to 6 loyalty. My life was largely irrelevant as they just kill you and I had no cards in hand. Graveyards contained Land, Instant, Sorcery, and Enchantment. I draw a Delver of Secrets and consider my options. I played the Delver, ultimated Lili targeting myself, splitting my permanents, Delver vs. everything else. This put Planeswalker and Creature into the graveyard to make a 6 power Tarmogoyf... which was exactsies. So it was the first time I ever ulted her twice in once game and also the first time I ever targeted myself with the ult. Weird line but worth remembering.

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