[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[KobeBryan]

Assuming DTT were banned with the release of BFZ, has anyone considered using Painful Truths? It can't be Pyroblasted and ignores graveyard hate. DRS would both help cast the spell and mitigate the life loss. It just seems like this card could potentially be a powerful component of a midrange BUG list.

I rather just continuously draw. And you tap out at 3 mana.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'd be excited that merfolk would again be less relevant. Honestly, I would love DTT to be banned. I think overall it would be good for this deck.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[wcm8]

If Night's Whisper didn't exist, I'd agree that it's worth looking at.

So the thing is, 3 for 1 is pretty huge in comparison to 2 for 1. Also, I realize there is a similar card in Blue that says essentially, 'Draw 3, discard 1 land' and maybe that's worth considering as well.

I just think that 1 or 2 copies of a draw 3 spell like this would be a good replacement for DTT, which I think is fairly likely to be banned. BUG just seems like the best candidate to run Painful Truths as a consistent Draw 3 for 3.

Then again, for 1 more mana you could just run Jace... It's all dependent on what the format ends up looking like with the updated B/R list with BFZ release.

[Whitefaces]

So the thing is, 3 for 1 is pretty huge in comparison to 2 for 1. Also, I realize there is a similar card in Blue that says essentially, 'Draw 3, discard 1 land' and maybe that's worth considering as well.

I just think that 1 or 2 copies of a draw 3 spell like this would be a good replacement for DTT, which I think is fairly likely to be banned. BUG just seems like the best candidate to run Painful Truths as a consistent Draw 3 for 3.

Then again, for 1 more mana you could just run Jace... It's all dependent on what the format ends up looking like with the updated B/R list with BFZ release.

This is a tempo deck, with daze, paying three mana for card draw just isn't anywhere near playability.

And lots of TA builds aren't even running DTT. A ban would be great for this deck.

[jim111589]

Yea it's seems like people forget that we have access to dark confidant, which is arguably better for this deck then DTT

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[TLK]

Can anyone comment on Winter Orb in the board? It seems in my match against Miracles at the GPT (in which we went to a draw), it would've been amazing.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I play it. It's good against MUD, Miracles, Infect, and lands.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[TLK]

Just 1 in the board or more? I can see it being really effective.

[Whitefaces]

I'm currently running two, it's been fantastic so far. Makes your Pierces/Flusters/Dazes real cards in the mid to late game should it get to that.

[btm10]

I ran 1 in my board at SCG DC. It's great against Miracles, Grixis, and any other midrange, control or Prison deck. Also great against Lands.

[TLK]

Awesome. Thanks guys! Gonna go ahead and make that addition.

[btm10]

So the thing is, 3 for 1 is pretty huge in comparison to 2 for 1. Also, I realize there is a similar card in Blue that says essentially, 'Draw 3, discard 1 land' and maybe that's worth considering as well.

I just think that 1 or 2 copies of a draw 3 spell like this would be a good replacement for DTT, which I think is fairly likely to be banned. BUG just seems like the best candidate to run Painful Truths as a consistent Draw 3 for 3.

Then again, for 1 more mana you could just run Jace... It's all dependent on what the format ends up looking like with the updated B/R list with BFZ release.

It really depends on where the meta settles. I could easily see Grixis or Esper adopting either Whisper or Truths since both Pyromancer and Mentor really need you to be able to keep cards in hand. I feel like the Sorcery speed and 3 mana kills Compulsive Research, though I could be wrong.

Also, no one mentioned the two copies of BUG Delver in the latest PIQ Top 16. I'm partial to Noah Cohen's list, but Ned Kaida-Yip had the higher finish. Congrats to both, and the six copies of Dig Through Time between them.

[wnorris]

It really depends on where the meta settles. I could easily see Grixis or Esper adopting either Whisper or Truths since both Pyromancer and Mentor really need you to be able to keep cards in hand. I feel like the Sorcery speed and 3 mana kills Compulsive Research, though I could be wrong.

Also, no one mentioned the two copies of BUG Delver in the latest PIQ Top 16. I'm partial to Noah Cohen's list, but Ned Kaida-Yip had the higher finish. Congrats to both, and the six copies of Dig Through Time between them.

I was surprised that neither lists were running Stifle. Is Team stronger adding the thoughtsieze and digs instead? I am still so torn between bob and dig, but these lists make dig sound really appealing.

[Cal]

It really depends on where the meta settles. I could easily see Grixis or Esper adopting either Whisper or Truths since both Pyromancer and Mentor really need you to be able to keep cards in hand. I feel like the Sorcery speed and 3 mana kills Compulsive Research, though I could be wrong.

Also, no one mentioned the two copies of BUG Delver in the latest PIQ Top 16. I'm partial to Noah Cohen's list, but Ned Kaida-Yip had the higher finish. Congrats to both, and the six copies of Dig Through Time between them.

Thanks you very much! I'm Ned, by the way. I rarely post here, but I try to stop in and see what tech you guys are innovating from time to time. It should be noted that Noah was x-1-1 through the swiss while I was x-1 so the difference in result is basically completely negligible. The difference in our removal suites is pretty interesting and I could easily be convinced his is better. The only thing I disagree with him on in a scrict sense is the third thoughtseize. I only ever felt like I needed 3 against combo decks out of the board. Outside of that, 2 felt completely reasonable.

Before I forget, here is what I played against.
1: Grixis tezzerret (2-0)
2: Dark Maverick (2-1)
3: U/G Cloudpost (2-1)
4: LED Dredge (2-1)
5: BUG Pod (1-2....my friend, David, crushed me and got to double draw in)
6: ANT (2-1)
7: Esper Mentor Control (2-0)

Top 8:
Quarterfinals:
Rematch against David with BUG Pod (2-0)
Semi-finals:
Matt Hoey with Elves (1-2).
I don't think I clearly punted away game three of the semis, but I do believe I played a sub-optimal line. Wish I could have taken it down for Team America.

[wnorris]

Thanks you very much! I'm Ned, by the way. I rarely post here, but I try to stop in and see what tech you guys are innovating from time to time. It should be noted that Noah was x-1-1 through the swiss while I was x-1 so the difference in result is basically completely negligible. The difference in our removal suites is pretty interesting and I could easily be convinced his is better. The only thing I disagree with him on in a scrict sense is the third thoughtseize. I only ever felt like I needed 3 against combo decks out of the board. Outside of that, 2 felt completely reasonable.

Before I forget, here is what I played against.
1: Grixis tezzerret (2-0)
2: Dark Maverick (2-1)
3: U/G Cloudpost (2-1)
4: LED Dredge (2-1)
5: BUG Pod (1-2....my friend, David, crushed me and got to double draw in)
6: ANT (2-1)
7: Esper Mentor Control (2-0)

Top 8:
Quarterfinals:
Rematch against David with BUG Pod (2-0)
Semi-finals:
Matt Hoey with Elves (1-2).
I don't think I clearly punted away game three of the semis, but I do believe I played a sub-optimal line. Wish I could have taken it down for Team America.

Did you like having the single True Name Nemisis in the board? I always feel like he performs so well when I have nothing left to do. I also would love to hear your opinion on stifle in this deck! How often was disfigure dead in hand? I've always used it in the side, but it seems pretty nice main right now.

[danpo]

Update: I replaced Divining Top with Dimir Charm in my build from last week. It was, at minimum, more fun.

I went 3-1:

1) Lost to B/W Stoneblade. I tested this matchup last week too and it's kinda rough. I think drawing Engineered Plague for spirits would help, but that did not happen. I got to use Dimir Charm on Tidehollow Sculler to get back Dimir Charm, but I think basically any time you use removal to kill something that's not Dark Confidant or like Abrupt Decay on Jitte, you're playing into their hands.

2) Beat mono-black land destruction feat. Hypnotic Spectre, Abyss, Tabernacle and Sinkhole/Rain of Tears/Icequake (Icequake!). Did you guys know Baleful Stryx is immune to The Abyss? Dropped a game to Abyssal Persecutor, so that was pretty cool, but Deathrite Shaman put in a huge amount of work in the third. I kept a six of Forest, Sea, Sea, Stryx, Stryx, Duress. T1 Duress shows me Swamp, Ritual, Ritual, Thoughtseize, Hypnotic Spectre, Wasteland. I took the Thoughtseize, he wastes me, I slam Forest and the Deathrite I ripped and from there trade two Stryxes for two Hippies and start holding up mana and endstep draining him for two, drawing into Dimir Charm in time to counter a subsequent Sinkhole. Get there.

I think Dimir Charm also killed a Spectre at some point in this match.

3) Beat Storm 2-0. Brainstorm was very good to me, and so was Wasteland and Meddling Mage. At some point he played Gitaxian Probe and read Dimir Charm, and after our match he told me it forced him to reconsider a line of play and hang back. No guarantee I would've handled it correctly, but if nothing else, I'm all about giving Storm chances to outplay themselves...

4) Lost game one against Omnishow.
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 4x Baleful Stryx, 2 Toxic Deluge, 1 Bayou.
In: 1 Scrubland, 4x Meddling Mage, 2x Duress, 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Surgical.

He was playing a weird build involving postboard Monastery Mentor, Pyroblast and for some reason Underground Sea. This made Wasteland better. Drew lots of hand-hate which really shined here too. In our third game I hit Show and Tell with Surgical Extraction and he scooped.

Fun times!

[Star|Scream]

Update: I replaced Divining Top with Dimir Charm in my build from last week. It was, at minimum, more fun.

I went 3-1:

1) Lost to B/W Stoneblade. I tested this matchup last week too and it's kinda rough. I think drawing Engineered Plague for spirits would help, but that did not happen. I got to use Dimir Charm on Tidehollow Sculler to get back Dimir Charm, but I think basically any time you use removal to kill something that's not Dark Confidant or like Abrupt Decay on Jitte, you're playing into their hands.

2) Beat mono-black land destruction feat. Hypnotic Spectre, Abyss, Tabernacle and Sinkhole/Rain of Tears/Icequake (Icequake!). Did you guys know Baleful Stryx is immune to The Abyss? Dropped a game to Abyssal Persecutor, so that was pretty cool, but Deathrite Shaman put in a huge amount of work in the third. I kept a six of Forest, Sea, Sea, Stryx, Stryx, Duress. T1 Duress shows me Swamp, Ritual, Ritual, Thoughtseize, Hypnotic Spectre, Wasteland. I took the Thoughtseize, he wastes me, I slam Forest and the Deathrite I ripped and from there trade two Stryxes for two Hippies and start holding up mana and endstep draining him for two, drawing into Dimir Charm in time to counter a subsequent Sinkhole. Get there.

I think Dimir Charm also killed a Spectre at some point in this match.

3) Beat Storm 2-0. Brainstorm was very good to me, and so was Wasteland and Meddling Mage. At some point he played Gitaxian Probe and read Dimir Charm, and after our match he told me it forced him to reconsider a line of play and hang back. No guarantee I would've handled it correctly, but if nothing else, I'm all about giving Storm chances to outplay themselves...

4) Lost game one against Omnishow.
Out: 4x Abrupt Decay, 4x Baleful Stryx, 2 Toxic Deluge, 1 Bayou.
In: 1 Scrubland, 4x Meddling Mage, 2x Duress, 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Surgical.

He was playing a weird build involving postboard Monastery Mentor, Pyroblast and for some reason Underground Sea. This made Wasteland better. Drew lots of hand-hate which really shined here too. In our third game I hit Show and Tell with Surgical Extraction and he scooped.

Fun times!

Congrats! But are you in the right thread?

[danpo]

It's a fair question, since this thread has the word Delver in the name and I'm really closer to Shardless(-less). Y'all tell me, I guess.

[Jo4source]

hello every one i was wondering for a solution to fight off merfolk. i get wrecked every time, my board is empty because i wanted to play better b4 actually paying a entry fee. my meta is small 3-4 miracles 1 storm 1 mud 1 merfolk 1 burn 1 death and taxes 1 one omni-tell 3-5 delver variants
my list

20 LANDS 4 Wasteland 4 Verdant Catacombs 3 Polluted Delta 3 Underground Sea 3 Misty Rainforest 2 Bayou 1 Tropical Island 13 CREATURES 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Delver of Secrets

1 true name 25 INSTANTS and SORC. 4 Ponder 4 Abrupt Decay 4 Daze 4 Brainstorm 3 Hymn to Tourach 3 Force of Will 2 Thoughtseize 1 dig 2 OTHER SPELLS 2 Liliana of the Veil

I would also like to know every ones opinion of what would be the best delver variant if DIG gets banned?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

4-color will likely fall off the map competitively, as will Grixis as they will lose their edge. I thing BUG and RUG will maintain their places as the standard for delver, each being the best at what they do.

There is not much to be done about the merfolk matchup. It's just bad. You can get lucky if you play Toxic Deluge, EE, and Meekstone in the side, but mostly just stop lords and race TNNs.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!