[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[YamiJoey]

I haven't really gotten to test it out that rigorously yet. My initial thinking was that if he is good enough for Vintage sideboards (which he is... and some maindecks), then there are probably applications for him in Legacy.

You do understand why, though. Right? If Trygon Predator said "Destroy Target Land", then maybe we could have a discussion about this.

[T-101]

Not only "Destroy target land," but remember that playing against Shops (one of the big three), this reads, "Unblockable. When this deals combat damage to a player, destroy target PERMANENT."

[Sturtzilla]

You do understand why, though. Right? If Trygon Predator said "Destroy Target Land", then maybe we could have a discussion about this.

Yes. That was partially in jest. Hitting Moxen and Time Vaults... basically everything versus Workshop decks is great. In Legacy I find the problem versus UWR in particular to be how they can nerf our 8 of our 14 or so threats with one card (RIP). Predator not only takes out all of the equipment but also help us with this divergent sideboard tactic. And it is pretty decent in a handful of other matches.

Not only "Destroy target land," but remember that playing against Shops (one of the big three), this reads, "Unblockable. When this deals combat damage to a player, destroy target PERMANENT."

Yep. Against MUD, Painter, Enchantress and Affinity this is pretty close to the same. It does still have some value against decks like UWR post board where we have to deal with RIP.

[Esper3k]

I haven't been a huge fan of Null Rod in my testing, especially against Equipment. The problem is that it's only really good if you get it down before they can get it onto a guy. Otherwise, it does very little against a Sword or Batterskull other than inconveniencing them some.

[Water_Wizard]

I haven't been a huge fan of Null Rod in my testing, especially against Equipment. The problem is that it's only really good if you get it down before they can get it onto a guy. Otherwise, it does very little against a Sword or Batterskull other than inconveniencing them some.

It shuts off Jitte and makes it so Batterskull can only be played one time. Once you get a Goyf at 4/5 or above, Batterskull becomes a one-time lifelink blocker.

I've liked Null Rod a lot, but versus more fringe decks like Affinity, Tezzeret Control, MUD, and Painter.

Against Miracles, Pithing Needle is probably better (because it can hit Jace and Karakas in addition to SDT), so long as the Miracles player is not running Engineered Explosives. Once Miracles runs EE, Null Rod becomes awesome.

PS - Null Rod is also awesome vs. artifact mana like Lotus Petal, LED, Chrome Mox, etc. Anytime you can bring in 1 card to potentially blank 10+ of your opponent's cards, that 1 card is worth consideration.

[Esper3k]

It shuts off Jitte and makes it so Batterskull can only be played one time. Once you get a Goyf at 4/5 or above, Batterskull becomes a one-time lifelink blocker.

I've liked Null Rod a lot, but versus more fringe decks like Affinity, Tezzeret Control, MUD, and Painter.

Against Miracles, Pithing Needle is probably better (because it can hit Jace and Karakas in addition to SDT), so long as the Miracles player is not running Engineered Explosives. Once Miracles runs EE, Null Rod becomes awesome.

PS - Null Rod is also awesome vs. artifact mana like Lotus Petal, LED, Chrome Mox, etc. Anytime you can bring in 1 card to potentially blank 10+ of your opponent's cards, that 1 card is worth consideration.

Sure it shuts off Jitte and hinders Batterskull, but it doesn't do anything if you're behind and draw it (unlike Grip, for example, which actually deals with equipped Equipment that you're losing to).

While Null Rod is pretty hilarious vs Imperial Painter and Storm decks, I don't feel that we generally need much help to beat Storm nor is Painter a common enough matchup to really focus too much of the sideboard upon.

[Barbed Blightning]

Starting to think my 1-1-1 grip/rod/needle package was accidentally the right call

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Esper3k]

Starting to think my 1-1-1 grip/rod/needle package was accidentally the right call

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

Hah yeah if you run all 3, you should have most bases covered.

[Barbed Blightning]

Hah yeah if you run all 3, you should have most bases covered.

Well I'm definitely running grip; card is stupid good. The other two are iffy still

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Esper3k]

Well I'm definitely running grip; card is stupid good. The other two are iffy still

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

[Purgatory]

Played this list to a crisp 5-0, position 1/62, today:

9 Fetch
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Sylvan Library

SB:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Disfigure
2 Submerge
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Winter Orb
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage

My matches:
Bant Fish (2-1)
Junk (2-1)
UG Infect (2-0)
Jund (2-1)
DnT (2-1)

TNN felt very strong. Submerge in the board was really good, and I never faced Miracles, so I only brought WOrb vs Jund.

[phi]

Very interesting without Liliana. Did you miss her? Why weren't you running her in sb either?

[KobeBryan]

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

I think Null goes in the Pithing needle spot and the grip is the maelstrom pulse slots. Otherwise your board will be thin like Esper here...who only had 1 surgical and a cage in his sideboard.

He should say...Thank god i didn't run into dredge

[Purgatory]

Very interesting without Liliana. Did you miss her? Why weren't you running her in sb either?

To be honest, I don't own any.

I won a game agains Infect thanks to Dismember not being Liliana instead.

She belongs somewhere in the 75 for sure, I just haven't been assed yet.

[Esper3k]

I think Null goes in the Pithing needle spot and the grip is the maelstrom pulse slots. Otherwise your board will be thin like Esper here...who only had 1 surgical and a cage in his sideboard.

He should say...Thank god i didn't run into dredge

I wouldn't be happy vs Dredge, sure, but 1) it's pretty uncommon these days, 2) Having Needle and Null Rod don't really help vs Dredge either.

[KobeBryan]

I wouldn't be happy vs Dredge, sure, but 1) it's pretty uncommon these days, 2) Having Needle and Null Rod don't really help vs Dredge either.

Its probably more common on the lower tables. But with a competent dredge player, in this meta, he can go quite far

[phazonmutant]

To me, running Null Rod / Pithing Needle on top of Grip + 4x Abrupt Decay was a little overkill. They just weren't doing what I was wanting them to do in the matchups I was facing, so I eventually cut them and haven't missed either of them at all except against the odd matchups like UB Tezzeret.

Definitely on the same page as Esper here. I like Needle over Null Rod because it's a proactive answer to Stoneforge into Batterskull as well as planeswalkers, but on the whole I'd just rather have Pulse. As he mentioned, the highest-impact sideboard cards are ones that allow you to catch up from behind on board - it's not what the deck's strongest suit game 1 so the cards you bring in should try to compensate for that.

Looking for some input on the following list. Seattle's meta is flooded with Tundras and Delvers, but with the Portland Open coming up in late June, I'm preparing for a slew of random decks.
<main>

SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

The sideboard is a bit of a mess and I'm still on the fence about Bob and TNN main. I like Esper3k's theory about high-impact cards (though not necessarily on Envelop :P) so this SB reflects that somewhat I think. Any thoughts?


EDIT: Sturtzilla, I just saw that Trigon Predator in your sideboard. Saucy. Was it as good as my inner Timmy desperately wants it to be?

#scoreboard. Just sayin'...

For real though, I think you need another 1-mana counterspell for when you board out Daze but need blue count (Miracles, Elves), as well as just to gain back some percentages against Sneak and Show. I think I would play the third Disfigure over Deluge, haven't been impressed with a 3 mana wrath that is bad when you're behind on life.

Triangle Predator is pretty spicy. I think it's a bit too cute thought. It's pretty soft to the 8 removal spell UWR Delver deck, it gets eaten by Serra Avenger, and most embarrassingly, it's mediocre against Enchantress. The deck runs 4 ways to prevent damage, 2-4 ways to give their permanents shroud, and 4+ ways to tax your combat step.

[Barbed Blightning]

Definitely on the same page as Esper here. I like Needle over Null Rod because it's a proactive answer to Stoneforge into Batterskull as well as planeswalkers, but on the whole I'd just rather have Pulse. As he mentioned, the highest-impact sideboard cards are ones that allow you to catch up from behind on board - it's not what the deck's strongest suit game 1 so the cards you bring in should try to compensate for that.



#scoreboard. Just sayin'...

For real though, I think you need another 1-mana counterspell for when you board out Daze but need blue count (Miracles, Elves), as well as just to gain back some percentages against Sneak and Show. I think I would play the third Disfigure over Deluge, haven't been impressed with a 3 mana wrath that is bad when you're behind on life.

Triangle Predator is pretty spicy. I think it's a bit too cute thought. It's pretty soft to the 8 removal spell UWR Delver deck, it gets eaten by Serra Avenger, and most embarrassingly, it's mediocre against Enchantress. The deck runs 4 ways to prevent damage, 2-4 ways to give their permanents shroud, and 4+ ways to tax your combat step.

#scoreboard? I don't follow...

Deluge has been great at regaining presence (similar to pulse) and given DRS' "worst" ability, life is not such a huge deal. I do agree with your comment on the needed 3rd counter; currently I am fiddling with library main. I may try envelop, pierce or fluster (pierce being top dog) or maybe even Swan Song (maybe).

Oh, how I wish trigon was good. You are correct, though, I think.

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Der_Endboss]

IMO Swan Song is not that good, because the token stops your Delver. In most MA were you need Swan Song, Delver wins by making pressure.

PS: Thanks to Dragonslayer_90 for the new Primer! I love it^^

[sawatarix]

Swan Song should stay in control or combodeck as they don't care about a bird.
In tempodecks there are way better cards than Swansong,namely envelop and flusterstorm


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