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Thread: Deck Taxonomy

  1. #1
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    Deck Taxonomy

    We all know about Aggro-Control-Combo but I feel this classification of decks and the debate that this arguement has outdated. Patrick Chapin tried update that classification with "Midrange" in mind but I also feel like there's something missing. It's hard to classify decks when deck shells can be interchangeable. But in order to ask "who's the beatdown?", classifications apply.

    As of now, as I see it, the classifications are:

    Aggro<Midrange<Combo<Control<Tempo

    I put them in that order because:

    Tempo usually beats Control and Combo
    Control usually beats Combo and Midrange
    Combo usually beats Midrange and Aggro
    Midrange usually beats Aggro and Tempo
    Aggro usually beats Tempo and Control

    Defining Aggro, Control and Combo isn't hard but what makes a deck Midrange and Tempo?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but Aggro become Midrange when part of the Aggro deck's card selection doesn't care abour how much damage a card can deal but how to help your aggressive strategy (Lightning Bolt vs Swords to Plowshares). At the same time, Tempo is a Control strategy with a clock. The question now is what makes the two different? How is UWr Patriot different from Jund?

    Can there be a non blue tempo deck? It is possibly to have a blue-based/splash midrange deck.
    What makes a Tempo deck tempo when the very definition of tempo is the pace of the game?

    If Tempo is about who has board advantage then shouldn't Stax be classified as a Tempo deck? Why or why not?
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    While Stax cares about board position, it isn't tempo. You are missing Prison. Which I guess some classify as control, but it's not exactly the same. Tempo doesnt care about CA as much and just tries to eek out a win before a deck is able to stabilize. Prison negates your CA by just making your boardstate to the point where you just can't play magic. Sure you have 7 cards in hand vs their 1, but they are all 1 drops vs their chalice of the void.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    So a short way of explaining it based on cards:

    Aggro - cares about damage per card (Burn/Zoo)
    Combo - combination of cards that creates a winning state
    Control - card ratio interaction, one card nullifying multiple cards on your opponent's side (which makes Prison control).

    How would you explain Midrange vs Tempo then:

    Midrange - your cards virtually becomes 2 cards?
    Tempo - cards do not matter?

    I get Daze and Force of Will are tempo cards (they don't care about your cards in hand and on the board as long as you slowed your opponent down. But when does a non blue shell/group of cards become tempo?

    Does land destruction count as Tempo since your it's a trade between your card vs your opponent's development? What's a good non-blue Legacy tempo deck?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    So a short way of explaining it based on cards:

    Aggro - cares about damage per card (Burn/Zoo)
    Combo - combination of cards that creates a winning state
    Control - card ratio interaction, one card nullifying multiple cards on your opponent's side (which makes Prison control).

    How would you explain Midrange vs Tempo then:

    Midrange - your cards virtually becomes 2 cards?
    Tempo - cards do not matter?

    I get Daze and Force of Will are tempo cards (they don't care about your cards in hand and on the board as long as you slowed your opponent down. But when does a non blue shell/group of cards become tempo?

    Does land destruction count as Tempo since your it's a trade between your card vs your opponent's development? What's a good non-blue Legacy tempo deck?
    I'd say the old deadguy decks playing like 4x SInkhole/4x Vindicate (AKA STone rain ) would be an example of non blue tempo. I think it exists less now than it used to. Especially since blue's tools for tempo decks are so good. You have 1 and 0 mana ways to destroy a land (STifle, waste), you have a 3 power flier on T1 that you can ride to victory, and you have cheap disruption. No non blue tools to play a "tempo" deck really can compete with that sort of efficiency.
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    I always thought the biggest distinction between aggro and midrange is that aggro needs to win in the early game while midrange prefers to win in the midgame. At least in other formats where midrange is more of a thing, though both are creature-based, midrange typically has a higher curve and bigger dudes than aggro. Or in the case of UWR in Modern, has a slower clock and is willing to wait to set up a win while aggro isn't.

    Tempo also cares less about damage output and usually tries to win a bit later than aggro does. But I think the big distinction between tempo and midrange is that tempo runs few threats and tends to run a very low curve, favoring the most efficient 0cc and 1cc and 2cc spells. This allows them to pressure the opposing manabase and trade cheap spells with higher cc spells, giving them a tempo advantage. It's a game plan centred around resources, as opposed to damage output (aggro) or board presence (midrange).

    EDIT: Yeah, Deadguy is a great example of this in non-blue, with lots of LD and then efficient 1-2cc spells.

    IMO, Patriot and Stoneblade decks are midrange. Like Jund. Stoneforge+TNN+blade is too mana-intensive and non-interactive a strategy to really count as tempo. Decks that dig up Batterskull against attacking creatures are taking a control role, trying to stabilize board presence.

    But really, I think in Legacy the taxonomy centres around

    Brainstorm > non-Brainstorm

  6. #6

    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    We all know about Aggro-Control-Combo but I feel this classification of decks and the debate that this arguement has outdated. Patrick Chapin tried update that classification with "Midrange" in mind but I also feel like there's something missing. It's hard to classify decks when deck shells can be interchangeable...
    It seems like those are more like x-y-z dimensions, and less individual categories.
    Combo elements are ones that try to end the game in a single turn.
    Aggro elements are ones that end the game over the course of multiple turns.
    Control elements are ones that don't move game forward, but hinder your opponent.

    None of this is pure. Many strong cards will do things in more than one of these categories: Magus of the Moon can stop your opponent and also help you grind away life. Pact of Negation can win the game for you with Hive Mind or counter a key spell your opponent is casting. Goblin Ringleader can usefully swing and also be a component in game-ending turns.

    Another way to think of it might be:
    Aggro cares about card advantage.
    Combo cares about card quality.
    Control cares about the stack or the board.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but Aggro becomes Midrange when part of the Aggro deck's card selection doesn't care about how much damage a card can deal but how to help your aggressive strategy (Lightning Bolt vs Swords to Plowshares). At the same time, Tempo is a Control strategy with a clock. The question now is what makes the two different? How is UWr Patriot different from Jund?

    Can there be a non blue tempo deck? It is possibly to have a blue-based/splash midrange deck.
    I think that "control deck with a clock" is a bit too simple a description of what tempo strategies are shooting for. Like Megadeus said, a tempo deck wants to stop you from establishing your game just long enough to kill you. The older name of "aggro-control" is actually a lot more descriptive because the deck construction philosophy is far closer to that of an aggro deck: run the most efficient threats (i.e., the creatures with the highest power-to-mana cost ratio), minimize the number of mana sources you run (to maximize the number of live draws), and keep your curve low so you can make do with your limited manabase. The control elements are there principally to protect your threats and to stop you from rolling over to combo like straight aggro strategies usually do, and everything is held together with cantrips. The strategy evolved in combo heavy formats like Extended and Vintage between 2002 and 2004, specifically because the combination of a reasonably fast clock and just enough countermagic and disruption (frequently just Force, Daze, and Null Rod) could stall combo like control while keeping control off balance long enough to win like an aggro deck. I think that if combo were to disappear, much of the incentive to play a tempo strategy over a pure aggro strategy would disappear also.

    In short, tempo is what aggro becomes when it needs to fight against combo. As a result, I find it unlikely that a non-blue-based tempo deck can be built because the appropriate disruption just won't be there. BUG Delver/Team America is the closest thing I've seen to non-blue-based tempo deck (it's probably best described as equal parts blue and black), and it's more of a tempo-midrange deck because it runs more lands to support cards like Liliana of the Veil and is sometimes willing to run incremental advantage cards like Sylvan Library and small threats like Dark Confidant that a "pure" aggro-control strategy like RUG Delver wouldn't consider because they don't kill the opponent quickly.

    I think midrange is better thought of as a control deck that is willing to play for an incremental advantage and win from there rather than going all-in on inevitability. It's far closer to your "control deck with a clock" than tempo, IMO.

  8. #8
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Interesting topic. I don't know that there is a clean answer, though I did like Chapins categories they included "unfair" and "fair". I also like FTWs idea that tempo is what happens to aggro when it is adapted to beat combo.

    I suspect that almost all Legacy decks have undergone this metamorphosis because the format is so powerful. That is - Legacy decks play two roles at once. This makes them devilishly difficult to pigeonhole.
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    I agree. In a format such as legacy where you probably have a roughly 33% chance of playing vs a combo deck, the notion of a full blown aggro deck that has 0 way to profitably interact with combo is hilarious.
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I agree. In a format such as legacy where you probably have a roughly 33% chance of playing vs a combo deck, the notion of a full blown aggro deck that has 0 way to profitably interact with combo is hilarious.
    True. I guess most decks other than combo and pure control and pure prison take on 2 roles. RUG can be seen as aggro morphing to add control elements to beat combo. D&T can be seen as aggro morphing to add prison elements to beat combo. Most other UWx decks seem like control splashing aggro elements to have a clock. Too easy to mix everything together in Legacy.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Yeah this isn't standard where you either have a deck full of spells to draw, kill, and counter like UWx control, a deck with lots of men, like the Montrous decks, and the aggro decks like RW Burn. There is more depth, and since there are more high impact cards, every deck sacrifices a bit of their speed or whatever in order to have a chance at interacting.
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    I just read this for the first time and it makes so much more sense than the "metagame wheel". A great read.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    I just read this for the first time and it makes so much more sense than the "metagame wheel". A great read.
    Yeah, dunno why it's not quoted more. It's much better at dissecting the nature of formats than most any metagame wheel I've ever seen - excepting format-specific ones like the Midrange > Tempo > Combo > Midrange wheel that used to define and describe Legacy pretty well before That Damn Fish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    I have always thought of tempo as basically being an aggro deck is still trying to win when the opponent is (effectively) on turn 4, but instead of winning on actual turn 4, it just slows the opponent's game down enough that they never really get an early game, and they lose by the time they start to stabilize (and look like they are on like turn 4). The trade off is basically just aggro that is making a concession to combo decks that isn't terrible against non-combo decks too.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by btm10 View Post
    I think that...
    Very good post!

    I think about tempo decks as an aggro that decided to not get beaten by bigger classmates (be it combo or dedicated board control) anymore, thus it trained and raised muscles (Daze, Foil, FoW) to stop anything ugly, be it Ill-Gotten Gains or Wrath of God. But for quite a long time I did not realize how much is tempo (of all the possible deck types) designed to work only in a certain metagame. Combo may win anywhere, there are creatures to kill and spells to counter for any control deck in any format, and turning dudes sideways, the fundamental principle of aggro, is one of the main principle of the whole game. So I guess these three deck types may thrive in any field. Tempo, however, seems to be limited to a developed metagame and of course: a developed format. One can't build a real tempo from Homelands draft; otoh, everyone who remembers any decks with Serendib/Frenetic Efreets and Bolts/Incinerates should admit that Tempo is a pretty old concept.

    My favourite tempo deck of all the times is Ice Age ─ Weatherlight TypeII 5CG.dec that had every tempo tool possible: inexpensive and resilient beaters (River Boa, Whirling Dervish), cheap removal (Terror, Swords to Plowshares) with some of it working as reach (Incinerate, Granger Guildmage), permission tools to stop Wrath, Disc, Prosperity or w/e (Memory Lapse, Uktabi Orangutan, Pyroblast) and several ways how to keep game in early stages, be it Winter Orb or Armageddon. It's miserably outdated today, but (as I already wrote, IIRC), it was the deck I took to my second T1,5 tournament back in 2005/6 (after the one that I attended with an awfully built Marogeddon sometime in early 2000's went really really bad) and it lead me to a Top8 finish, so I simply MUST like it.
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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    I really like this circle of predation. Surprised it's not used more.

    It helps classify Legacy decks beyond "runs Brainstorm + FoW", since different variations of tempo can fit in different places in the wheel.

    RUG Delver would be 1-drop+"the counterspell"
    BUG Delver would also be 1-drop + "the counterspell" (which explains the few copies of Liliana, progression towards dropping slower stuff for lower cc slots)
    Patriot is "the counterspell" + some weird hybrid of 1-drop/big spell (T1 Delver makes it play like the 1-drop, SFM-> Batterskull/TNN makes it play like the big spell)
    Esper Stoneblade/Deathblade is the "the counterspell" + incremental card advantage
    Shardless BUG would be "the counterspell" + Incremental card advantage
    Miracles is "the counterspell" + incremental card advantage (CounterTop is virtual CA; Top+Terminus and Jace generate actual CA)

    Punishing Jund (and Punishing Lands) seems like a classic incremental card advantage deck
    Goblins is the 1-drop+incremental card advantage
    I'm at a loss for Death & Taxes.

    It also splits up combo pretty well.
    "turn 1" decks are basically the 1-drop applied to combo. try to stick a threat on turn 1 and ride to victory.
    Reanimator is the 1-drop + the counterspell . stick an early threat and protect.
    SneakShow is the big spell + the counterspell. fundamentally slower, but often dropping scarier threats.
    TES/ANT are the big spell. sculpting to generate storm count is like the combo-equivalent of ramp.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I'm at a loss for Death & Taxes.
    Would death and taxes also be 1 drop and incremental advantage style deck? Rather than having true card advantage, it builds up inevitability through many small lasting effects.

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    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Midrange - your cards virtually becomes 2 cards?
    I like this point about midrange a lot. All of the best midrange cards threaten this: Liliana, Lingering Souls, SFM, DRS, Bob, BBE, Hymn. Even a card like Zealous Persecution has that quality: pick off your TNN, my Souls tokens smack in for 8, all with one card.

  20. #20

    Re: Deck Taxonomy

    My definition of tempo was always trumping your opponents early turns with superior cards in the early game while also disrupting their plan and "keeping" your opponent in the early stages of a game or forcing opponents into situations where they need to make unorthodox plays just to survive.

    Because in a vacuum Delver of Secrets is arguably the best one drop creature card, but when you look at the other creatures in context to one another this can be debatable. The point of a Tempo strategy is to remove that context from the game. For example: I play Delver, they play Wirewood Symbiote. I blind flip and attack for three, Waste the land, and Stifle a fetch. Maybe on turn three they play another one drop, but it still will not be better then my T1 play of Delver. By limiting your progress in the game I am keeping you in the early stages to ensure that all of my plays are more powerful in that moment because I ensure that we don't get beyond the early stages of the game with "tempo" plays.

    That's why decks that are resilient enough to actually get into the mid/late stages of a game do so well against tempo strategies. When a game progresses to those points the cards you are laying down are much better then the tools available to Tempo decks. Good examples in Legacy are Batterskull, True Name, Knight, Jace, and Entreat the Angels.

    In Legacy though the strongest cards for this are (of course) blue. Not to mention that a little bogey man of combo exists that a tempo deck needs to calculate into its plan. I think that it is the strength of counter spells in the lens of a tempo strategy that makes tempo as we know it today so strong against combo.

    This is where I got a lot of my ideas from -> Mike Flores' Tempo Definition

    Feel free to share your opinions if you think I am describing something wrong or thinking about it incorrectly.

    Now I have trouble thinking of "tempo" plays beyond land destruction. What other examples exist? Making an opponent replay a card I think is one, but what else? And do other types of plays that generate tempo matter?
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