Land "Destruction" deck?

[Megadeus]

I was listening to the Everyday Eternal podcast, when they were talking about Master of the Feast. They were talking about how to negate his drawback, and one great way to negate that is just by attacking their mana base and not allowing them to cast spells. I have also been trying to think of how best to build a really bad Land Destruction deck with Sinkholes and Pithing Needles. Here's my newest attempt:

Land Destruction:
4x Pithing Needle (Names fetchlands)
4x Sinkhole
4x Vindicate
2x Icequake

Dudes:
4x Master of the Feast (Fast clock)
4x Deathrite Shaman (So much food!)
4x Phyrexian Revoker (Can name mana dorks and other non land things)

Spells:
4x Dark Ritual
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Armageddon

Lands:
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
5x Swamp
4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire (Least likely black fetch land that would overlap with an opponents in case of a Pithing Needle)
1x Plains

Maybe I simply eschew something like STP and go for like Hymn/Gerards Verdict. Sideboard I haven't really decided on yet, but it probably would include stuff like 3x Engineered Plague and such. Not exactly sure. Feel free to tell me how not viable and bad this is! But for those that hate lands as much as I do, feel free to try it out! I may give it a go next week.

Also was thinking of Gitaxian Probe, so I can probe you, see what fetches are in your hand, then name them with Needle

[rufus]

It seems like a very risky strategy.

Suppression Field works on fetch lands.
Nether Void and Rishadan Port are also potential components in a mana denial strategy.

[wcm8]

Stifle is probably worth considering, as is Smallpox. Life from the Loam to recur Wasteland, and Snapcaster Mage to recur your LD spells.

Winter Orb is another method of slowing them down.

[Megadeus]

City of Brass Land Destruction featuring Stifle, Needles, Sinkholes and Loam for Wasteland? Also Supression Fields. I can dig it.

Edit:

Deathblades Greedy Cousin:

Land Destruction:
4 Stifle
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
2 Armageddon

Dudes:
3 Master of the Feast
3 Aven Mincensor
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Bob

Other Stuff:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Life from the Loam

Lands:
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
4 Wasteland
3 USea
1 Tundra
2 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats

[nedleeds]

A few things have made LD much worse over the last ohhhhhhhhhhh 15 years ...

1) Fetchlands. I think this is why you have to either have 2 mana spheres, pithing needle, or Stifle (or all the above). If I get the play and just pass with a fetchland up all your Wastes and sorcery speed LD are bricks.

2) Daze. Not quite a boot to the groin as Gush was but close.

3) No Black Vise. Most other win cons involve attacking. Which sucks. You mention that shitty black creature, I'd just play Tarmogoyfs and Tombstalkers ala Team America.

4) Buying back the play. Once you get behind with LD more and more of your draws become bricks. There aren't many ways to get the turn you are behind back. Spheres are one, another is Tangle Wire.

If you didn't want to play Blue there's Bind which is a firm warm fisting vs. fetchlands.

I think playing Dark Ritual and Deathrite is shit. You'll get so many do nothing hands ... if you are committing to Loam I think just play Mox Diamond. You've got to close out the initial 1-3 LD spells with a soft lock that will last long enough for your win con to actually win. This is usually a sphere / Nether Void ... otherwise you might let them get back in, especially decks that require 1-2 mana to kill you. I like Revoker as an answer to Vial and other dorks but your list still loses to derp shaved ape delver derp natty flip. I think you have to play decay which pairs well with Nether Void. Also don't play Armageddon if you are spending the prior 3 turns casting Sinkhole and Vindicate and burning your land drop on Wasteland.

I don't think anyone is winning any 4+ round events with this strategy anymore but maybe something like

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Bind / Pithing Needle
2 Desecration Demon / Some 2-3 turn clock
3 Nether Void

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Swamp
3 Scrubland
3 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath

SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Gloom
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

[Megadeus]

Fair. I can definitely see why Geddon is just bad here. I just like cards that say "Destroy ~ Land". And I agree with you on the fetch land part, hence why Needle is one of the main tools at fighting them (though it seems pretty bad). Stifle helps. But like you said, at the point I am playing a really shitty card like master of the feast, I probably should simply be playing something like Goyf and such and playing TA. Hopefully I can get a shit list together for Knoxville to play in the challenge. Any thoughts on Probe to allow (on the play) probe you, see your fetch lands in hand, needle one?

[Scott]

It's pretty different from what you're going for, so apologies if this is tangential, but when I saw a land destruction deck in Esper colors my mind jumped to this sweet deck list from 2 1/2 years ago.

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=7402&iddeck=53861

[maharis]

Fair. I can definitely see why Geddon is just bad here. I just like cards that say "Destroy ~ Land". And I agree with you on the fetch land part, hence why Needle is one of the main tools at fighting them (though it seems pretty bad). Stifle helps. But like you said, at the point I am playing a really shitty card like master of the feast, I probably should simply be playing something like Goyf and such and playing TA. Hopefully I can get a shit list together for Knoxville to play in the challenge. Any thoughts on Probe to allow (on the play) probe you, see your fetch lands in hand, needle one?

I think another strategy might be better. What about using Rule of Law effects (including the new one on a stick) plus Armageddon to choke off what opponent can play off the draw? The draw happens on your turn so anything sorcery speed is moot anyway.

Let's say you go t1 DRS, t2 Master, t3 Armageddon, attack for 5? Or Wasteland-Rule of Law? That seems better than trying to pick off their lands.

You also probably need another undercosted beater with a drawback to play when you don't draw Master. Something like Flesh Reaver but probably not that.

[Megadeus]

I like that esper list. Pretty neat. And sure, fat creature into geddon is a tried and true strategy. Though I am maybe misunderstanding how rule of law helps at all

[maharis]

I like that esper list. Pretty neat. And sure, fat creature into geddon is a tried and true strategy. Though I am maybe misunderstanding how rule of law helps at all

My thinking is that you want to mitigate the effects of them drawing more cards, so as long as they can only cast one spell per turn, they can't get too far ahead. Legacy mana curves are so low that it seems like it would be hard unless you're constantly nuking lands to really keep them off of anything. If you have them so they can't even cast an STP or a DRS you could probably win with a pudding cup —*you wouldn't even need a 5/5 flyer that's letting them draw out of the lock. Rule of Law at least slows them down until you can go nuclear with Geddon. If you're in B/W you have access to Vindicate to blow up the one thing they do land per turn, whatever it is.

[nedleeds]

I like that esper list. Pretty neat. And sure, fat creature into geddon is a tried and true strategy. Though I am maybe misunderstanding how rule of law helps at all

Rule of Law isn't going to do anything that Trinisphere doesn't do 100 times better. If they have 6 lands up vs. your LD deck you might as well scoop.

[ESG]

To add to nedleeds' good points, unlike 15 years ago, there are decks that can kill you on T1 (Storm, Charbelcher, All Spells), effectively win on T1 (Reanimator), or not need land to function (Dredge and especially Manaless Dredge). This deck would also have a hard time beating Lands and any deck that opens on Aether Vial unless you have the Pithing Needle right away. I'm also not liking the scenario of facing T1 Delver on the draw. Control decks and midrange decks are the only ones that would be seriously hurt by dedicated land destruction.

I like Gitaxian Probe to improve T1 Needle or to better set up a T2 Revoker. Master of the Feast is awful. You don't want your opponents to draw out of mana screw. Tombstalker is basically as fast, especially if you are playing Dark Ritual.

[FTW]

2) Daze. Not quite a boot to the groin as Gush was but close.

I once Daze'd a Sinkhole and the opponent paid 1... XD

Yeah, I think the best Land destruction deck right now is Death and Taxes. Any other such deck needs to be able to mix both taxing and land destruction. Without taxing, it's too easy for a topdeck fetchland + cantrip in hand to save them. Also, land destruction decks tend to run 10+ blanks against a resolved Insectile Aberration...

Speaking of blanks that cost BB, why not run Shadow of Doubt?

[nedleeds]

Shadow of Doubt can be quite the blow out. Good call. It looks blue to me ... hard thinking of it as a black card.

Edit: Root Maze can also handle fetchlands, and is a miserable card in general if you are behind on mana

Edit: But interacts poorly with Trinisphere

Edit: And Elves laughs

[Megadeus]

Shadow is pretty neat. Didn't think about that one honestly.

[wcm8]

Another possibility is Shardless Agent / Bloodbraid Elf -> Boom // Bust

Then you could run some sort of BRUG deck with Ancestral Vision and DRS.

[frogger42]

I think 1-for-1ing your opponent on lands is the least efficient way to win a game. If you can win. Them: Land -> delver. You, sinkhole. Get beaten by Delver anyway.
Or someone mentioned Fetches (or Wasteland even). Them: Fetch, pass. You: nothing. Them: crack Fetch, land, Goyf. Win the game.
Ideally, Suppression Field, Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Stifle and other preventive effects will be Sinkholes, but more useful. Go google my "Balls of Steel: $200 Solution." That's one take. (It's terrible, btw.)
The mana denial tactic that I think seems to work best is in a Stax shell, usually mono-W Stax. I think Crucible is slow, but if you back it up with Trinisphere, then you can effectively lock your opponent out of the game. Check out my list here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...n-Stax/page132

You run T1-2 Trinisphere, and can back it up with Armageddon to maintain the lock. A lot of the pieces are mana-denial, and are generally one-sided, including Geddon. It's super-cheap to build, and is flexible enough to use some more tweaking. Sinkhole is just not a big enough effect to control the game; the format is so tempo-oriented, that playing a two-mana Stone Rain Timewalks yourself. BB: Give opponent another turn to lay a threat. Sweet!

[Plm]

I remember a LD deck called trisomy 21, you should check its thread.
I've tried a little land destruction (also known as sadism ) but in a world of 1 mana 3/2 flying I found it lacking.
Playing smallpox help mitigate that, vindicate also.
Instead of 1 for 1 spell I would be more inclined to play mass destruction package, such as reliquary + gueddon or cascade guys + boom/bust.

Also trini is nice

[JPoJohnson]

I once Daze'd a Sinkhole and the opponent paid 1... XD

Yeah, I think the best Land destruction deck right now is Death and Taxes. Any other such deck needs to be able to mix both taxing and land destruction. Without taxing, it's too easy for a topdeck fetchland + cantrip in hand to save them. Also, land destruction decks tend to run 10+ blanks against a resolved Insectile Aberration...

Speaking of blanks that cost BB, why not run Shadow of Doubt?

Wha? It's not Landstill?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, some bad deck's idea:

If you reall want to play LD which is weka tactic in Legacy, maybe you can try some WR heavy board control build. I mean, it's a wrong color combination, and all that stuff, but we're here not to discuss powerful decks, true?
I'd stay away froma any Staxlike decks, I played Stax for quite some time and it's a solid deck, but... It's nice to have amazing opening hand, but when the oponent goes "Delver, Daze your CotV, Goyf, FoW your Moat" you'll die prety horribly which is esp. annyoing if you manage to land all the usual lock pieces exactly the turn after they don't matter.

Ok, back on RW(g) topic:

your answers to DRS, Delver and Goyf:
4 Swords
4 Bolt
1 Helix (why not?)

LD theme:
4 Geddon
4 Boom//Bust
any UW Miracle would love to play against this!

more removal:
2 WoG
4 Obl Ring

optional:
LftL

non-negotiable:
3-4 CoW

win con:
Elspeth
ajani
BSA
w/e

lands:
yes

manarocks:
sure