So, Judge Promo FoW

[Ellomdian]

Yeah, it's not a seller's fault they can so these now at a premium. Really, you're just losing money if you don't sell at what the market will support.

Small misconception, and one that I've dealt with when selling brandy-new Judge foils in the past (especially back inna day when you could reasonably expect them to overprint the crap out of them for 2 years.)

You might think that the shiny FoW in your hands is worth $1000, but I have a hard time using it to pay rent, or putting it in my IRA this year, or even using it to get cards I need at the prices I want. I am more than happy (and have gotten into arguments with other judges) to take anywhere from a 10-15% 'loss' on the high value of a card for the first week or 2 if it means that I sell mine immediately. If I was (and sometimes am) willing to let the 'Market' decide what the price was, I would be competing with the majority of judges who expect to get xxx dollars, where xxx is the value of the highest completed auction. However, not only do I usually sell my cards within hours of listing, I get to dictate shipping terms that are convenient for me as part of the auction - and people are fine with it because the cards are cheaper. I don't think I have ever had a payment dispute because I get to dictate terms, and people are happy to get a 'discount.' Also, I don't really have to worry about re-listing, which will absolutely kill you when a high profile card comes out - most people who have the $$$ pick them up almost immediately, and then there is a lull.

'What the market will support' is always kind of a silly discussion - most people forget that there are 2 sides to a Market. As a buyer, my bid price is typically quite a bit below 'Market,' and I encourage people to actually go through the hassle to get 'Market' price. As a buyer or seller, I offer a 'Discount' in return for convenience, not just for time (which is a weird metric to calculate) but for effort overall. That's why SCG is what they are - they make it very easy to Buy or Sell, and take a few points from either side for it.

TL;DR - I have a hard time discussing theoretical 'loss' for a card based on what the demonstrably volatile market states the price is. If the price ever stabilizes (even if it is at $1k) we can talk about losing money, but there are too many factors to say that now.

[miguelmatix]

"lordofthepit - If I weren't allowed to trade away or sell the foil Force of Will (i.e. if we disregard its price on the secondary market), I would rather have one original Force of Will than two judge promos".


This.

[Esper3k]

Hello,

ofcourse money making is not a crime but sometimes the extent of it is misplaced.
Because as I allready mentioned I hardly doubt that they will anytime soon have to quit business because the
cards get resonalbe prices and not the top of the peak price because of the urge to make as much money as possible.

For this reason I mentioned also what I think is a betterway to vevaluate the price of cards.

But you are absolutly right it no crime to make money and it is also not a crime to not buy it:
maybe I just should quit my atempts to look for reasonable people in this world.

And just start thinking how I can maximizie my own profit.

Best regards Teveshszat

That's the rub, isn't it? There are many of us who believe it's perfectly reasonable to try and maximize profit - be it through short term or long term gains. Whatever works best for you is reasonable as long as it accomplishes the goal of maximizing profit.

Small misconception, and one that I've dealt with when selling brandy-new Judge foils in the past (especially back inna day when you could reasonably expect them to overprint the crap out of them for 2 years.)

You might think that the shiny FoW in your hands is worth $1000, but I have a hard time using it to pay rent, or putting it in my IRA this year, or even using it to get cards I need at the prices I want. I am more than happy (and have gotten into arguments with other judges) to take anywhere from a 10-15% 'loss' on the high value of a card for the first week or 2 if it means that I sell mine immediately. If I was (and sometimes am) willing to let the 'Market' decide what the price was, I would be competing with the majority of judges who expect to get xxx dollars, where xxx is the value of the highest completed auction. However, not only do I usually sell my cards within hours of listing, I get to dictate shipping terms that are convenient for me as part of the auction - and people are fine with it because the cards are cheaper. I don't think I have ever had a payment dispute because I get to dictate terms, and people are happy to get a 'discount.' Also, I don't really have to worry about re-listing, which will absolutely kill you when a high profile card comes out - most people who have the $$$ pick them up almost immediately, and then there is a lull.

'What the market will support' is always kind of a silly discussion - most people forget that there are 2 sides to a Market. As a buyer, my bid price is typically quite a bit below 'Market,' and I encourage people to actually go through the hassle to get 'Market' price. As a buyer or seller, I offer a 'Discount' in return for convenience, not just for time (which is a weird metric to calculate) but for effort overall. That's why SCG is what they are - they make it very easy to Buy or Sell, and take a few points from either side for it.

TL;DR - I have a hard time discussing theoretical 'loss' for a card based on what the demonstrably volatile market states the price is. If the price ever stabilizes (even if it is at $1k) we can talk about losing money, but there are too many factors to say that now.

Let me clarify - when I talk about the "market", I really mean the best you can sell / buy at. Of course for many there is value to be had in quickly moving or obtaining cards, and there is a comisurate cost associated with that.

In the current case of SCG selling the new FoWs at $1000, I think it's fine because they are showing that they have the ability to move it at that price. Of course if it turns out they can't, then they will have to lower their price if they want to sell it. It's a self-correcting "problem", IMO.

[Ellomdian]

It's a self-correcting "problem", IMO.

Quoted for Truthery.

I have a sneaking suspicion there are enough people willing to not deal with the hassle of eBay (or who have accumulated credit on SCG) to clear quite a few FoW's initially. Over time, I wouldn't be surprised to see their supply increase and the price drop.

[Lord Seth]

I don't really see the reason in complaining about the high price of a luxury product. It's kinda the point that it's expensive.

[Esper3k]

Quoted for Truthery.

I have a sneaking suspicion there are enough people willing to not deal with the hassle of eBay (or who have accumulated credit on SCG) to clear quite a few FoW's initially. Over time, I wouldn't be surprised to see their supply increase and the price drop.

Yeah right now you've got those people who both want to have it now and are willing to pay a premium for it now. Once more start becoming available, I wouldn't be surprised to see the price drop some. Of course there's always the chance WoTC prints more given that FoW isn't on the reserve list.

[thecrav]

I don't really see the reason in complaining about the high price of a luxury product. It's kinda the point that it's expensive.

Opulence. I has it.

[warfordium]

I'm not sure why Wizards thinks they have to dip their collective toes in the water when it comes to iconic reprints; if Modern Masters has taught us anything, its that people will lap them up, even if they're in non-Standard-legal sets. Letting them trickle out as garbage foil promos is just leaving money on the table.

[Grillo]

Drew this playmat a few years ago... only one left to go!



.... Also not a fan of the new FOW art.

[Aggro_zombies]

Too bad Tabernacle is on the Reserved List.

[Ellomdian]

Drew this playmat a few years ago... only one left to go!

You know, if you were careful, you could make the Tabernacle look like a Karakas and call it a hat trick

[Grillo]

You know, if you were careful, you could make the Tabernacle look like a Karakas and call it a hat trick

That'd be fun... but very tough!

[GoblinZ]

Drew this playmat a few years ago... only one left to go!



.... Also not a fan of the new FOW art.

Oh,I remember your post...this playmat is just awesome...I have a playset of the former two, but sadly I don't think I can afford buying the last one any more...

[rockout]

This is far overdue.

I agree with this statement. It's too bad they didn't release these years ago.

[Nuke is Good]

I'm glad the MOCS art finally got put into paper form, maybe the LED will be next.


I'll probably never own one since I already own a playset and I want to finish Dutch Stax first.

Oh why oh why must Tabernacles and Moats cost so much.