EDH ideas, help me to decide.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, so I'm bored with Legacy, and a friend of mine who plays an awful highlander deck (it did cost im less than 100 USD) reminded me of that cry-babies format called EDH/Commander. Needless to say, I'm completely ashamed that I even think about building the 100-cards deck, not to mention I already guess I won't play it too often. However, it's still better than nothing and I may always dismantle the deck.
I already thought about some build, I definitely don't want to spend more than fifty bucks on this affair, maybe double the amount, but only in some very special case. I tinkered with some ideas for so long that I simply can't decide (oh, the joy of deck building; seriously, I hate this aspect of the game, I'd rather play chess draughts)

I'd like to read your opinions on the few choices I'm considering right now. Look, I even made a poll! Who wouldn't love to make an important vote? Who wouldn't love to make life decisions for other people? Enjoy...


Deck ideas:

1) 5Color Ramp Control aka 50 Bucks Solution

general:
Cromat or Atogatog (and maybe I may steal Progenitus from someone's binder, too)

lands:
5 Ice Age painlands
5 Tempest painlands
5 Apocalypse painlands
5 Invasion cipt duals
5 Coldsnap cipt duals
5 Zendikar cipt duals
5 Shards of Alara triplelands
5 utility lands

artifact mana:
10 signets
10 other rocks

titans:
1 Primeval
1 Sundering

others:
48 cheap ass brutal cards*
1 card for that other format that uses 101 cards instead of 100


*) like any kind of WoG, any kind of targeted removal, lots of creatures with etb triggers, some interesting equipment (Skullclamp and the two seven-league boots), Erratic Portal and the EP no.2, some draw, etc., you know the stuff.

pros: 5 colors, nice lands
cons: boring idea, slow deck



2) Esper Blackblade aka One Hundred Brilliant Questions

general:
Dakkon Blackblade

lands:
35 WUB lands
some utility lands

artifact mana:
10 Esper rocks

flying nacatls:
about 20 sphinxes*

ultimata:
Brilliant Ultimatum

Thopter combo:
yes

others:
count to 100; mostly removal, blinks, counters and such

*) alternatively all 31, but some of them suck hard.
pros: funny tribe, three colors only
cons: three colors only, funny tribe



3) Haters Gonna Hate

general:
whoever, lets say Mayael the Anima if I wish to play red, but Rhys the Redeemed is also good, as is Tolsimir Wolfblood

lands:
35 Naya lands
5 strip mines
some utility lands?

rock and ramp:
10

mass (land) destruction:
30 mass destruction spells*

creatures:
yes

*) Primitive Justice and Builder's Bane and Decimate and Hull Breach and Calming Verse and Rout and Armageddon and Wildfire and Cataclysm and Ruination and Global Ruin and Shattering Spree and w/e.

pros: very brutal deck
cons: might get punched into teeth

Alternatively I may keep the color combination but switch the idea to my (never finished) Rheingold.dec you may find here.



Discuss.

[Offler]

a) 5 color deck
Those are usually most expensive decks, since you can choose any card. People usually play old duals. Cromat is fine, but I would reccomend also Child of Alara with a lot of sac effects (on lands).

b) Dakkon Backblade
Interesting card. Only few players around try such old cards, but his effect is good even nowadays. Actually most games are quite long to have more than 20 lands. WUB is also nice combination for strong control, with fast card drawing. If you plan sphinxes you can find really interesting mix of creatures (such as Magister Sphinx).

I really like the idea...

c) The idea seems bit incomplete... Mass destroy you say...
Try Zur the enchanter and cards like Humility, Solitary confinement, Contamination, Necropotence. People will love it :D

[Bed Decks Palyer]

a) 5 color deck
Those are usually most expensive decks, since you can choose any card. People usually play old duals. Cromat is fine, but I would reccomend also Child of Alara with a lot of sac effects (on lands).

b) Dakkon Backblade
Interesting card. Only few players around try such old cards, but his effect is good even nowadays. Actually most games are quite long to have more than 20 lands. WUB is also nice combination for strong control, with fast card drawing. If you plan sphinxes you can find really interesting mix of creatures (such as Magister Sphinx).

I really like the idea...

c) The idea seems bit incomplete... Mass destroy you say...
Try Zur the enchanter and cards like Humility, Solitary confinement, Contamination, Necropotence. People will love it :D

The third choice seems th most silly and bad. After all, nobody is interested in mass destruction games, where there nothing happens, just people stare at empty board.

I've chosen Dakkon Blackblade mostly because he's pretty cool and I didn't want to use too obvious general for an UWB Sphinx deck, read: Sharuum. I cannot decide on the number of sphinxes, because there are 31 of them which is too many to use all of them, but not that many to not use all of them. Yes, some of them are weak, but this should be a pubdeck, so there's no reason to be extremely cautious aboutthe card choices.
I also thought about a compromise, to use the best five to ten sphinxes and then feed the deck with control elements. I think it's the best approach, as the funny factor of thirty-one sphinxes won't outweight the fact that I'll be losing game after game with them. There are lots of counterspells, removal and discard/exile in this color combination, so it could definitely end as a quite strong deck, at least speaking of a crap pile with no real power in it.
Another possible compromise is to use say five best sphinxes, five best dragons, etc., basically something in each color with a powerful effect, be it p/t, etb trigger or w/e. I mean even sidegrade this to the 5 Color deck but less predictable (less usual control choices, more beats).

Maybe I'm just too serious about the whole thing. It's not like the decks would cost that much, so why shold I not build the two of them, a Sphinx one and the five colours insanity? I like the idea of fully non-basic, fully multi-colored manabase with lots of artifact ramp into bombs (and I'm serious about the bombiness, no wannabe stuff, but Identity Crisis, Plague Winds, Sundering Titan, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Conflux, Cruel Ultimatum, Decimate, etc.) that either end the game on their own or at least move me really further, but I similarly like the elegance of a Tribal Wars Classic: Sphinxes with Dakkon as the lion tamer.

I'll think about these two ideas a bit more. After all it's not like Magic is finished today, and there will be more and more weak sphinxes that will dilute the power of their tribe, so some of them will stay in reserve no matter what. As such, I shouldn't mourn that I'll use only the best of them.

The 5C_EDH should be more like a funny project. For now I may simply throw into it the most powerful cards I own, and improve the list over the time.

[Davran]

FWIW, both Sundering and Primeval Titan are banned per the "official" ban list...so you'll need some other fat if you end up taking the 5C route.

[Ace/Homebrew]

cry-babies format called EDH/Commander.
I'm completely ashamed that I even think about building the 100-cards deck, not to mention I already guess I won't play it too often.
I definitely don't want to spend more than fifty bucks on this affair.

Dude, spend $30 bucks on a pre-con...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

FWIW, both Sundering and Primeval Titan are banned per the "official" ban list...so you'll need some other fat if you end up taking the 5C route.

Strange. I don't see them here:
http://duelcommander.com/banlist/
But thanks for reminding me what I dislike about the format - the fragmentation of EDH/singleton/Commander community. I definitely expect they're banned elsewhere.
Ok, I'll try to find some other fatties, maybe I'll stick to the Sphinxes-only idea.

Dude, spend $30 bucks on a pre-con...

What a helpful post and what a splendid idea! Thanks, I completely forgot that those pre-constructed decks exist. Do they still put foils into them? I love foils.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, for now I'll stick to the Sphinxes. I don't have any idea how to build a five-color deck, moreover it'll be too similar to the one that my friend plays. Sphinxes look cool and I will need far less strange lands, so there will be much more place for a real stuff, be it sphinxes themselves, or the control stuff. I'll use Dakkon, although he sucks, but I don't want to use Sharuum, (s)he's too powerful.

So, lets say something like this:

lands:
35 Esper lands (some utility)

mana artifacts:
10 should be enough

creatures:
20 best sphinxes

control:
10 counterspells
15 removal
10 discard

the rest:
Equipments, tricks (like blinks, Er. Portals, etc.), some kind of draw (maybe not, most of the sphinxes do this)


Seems good. Shame that the best sphinx (Consecrated one) became so expensive.
Also, I'm not sure about counterspells. They don't answer resolved things and maybe I need just few of them to have them at ready when WoG is about to resolve. Same is true for discard, I'll use only the best available, I don't think it'll be ten cards at all.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I suggested buying a precon because of how much you hate deck-building and the self-admitted likelihood of you giving up on this format after a few games. I still think it is a good idea for you to buy Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and jam sphinxes into it.

Something that wasn't explicitly stated, but should be clarified, is if you will primarily be playing 1v1 or in pods of up to 4.
Discard isn't great in this format. It is better in 1v1, but still not great. If you want discard, I suggest cards that also build your board (Tidehollow Sculler, Bloodhusk Ritualist).
Same thing with counterspells... Drawing cards is usually going to be better (in a pod).
Scaling board wipes (like Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge, and Mutilate will be good because your sphinxes will survive a majority of the time.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I suggested buying a precon because of how much you hate deck-building and the self-admitted likelihood of you giving up on this format after a few games. I still think it is a good idea for you to buy Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and jam sphinxes into it.

Something that wasn't explicitly stated, but should be clarified, is if you will primarily be playing 1v1 or in pods of up to 4.
Discard isn't great in this format. It is better in 1v1, but still not great. If you want discard, I suggest cards that also build your board (Tidehollow Sculler, Bloodhusk Ritualist).
Same thing with counterspells... Drawing cards is usually going to be better (in a pod).
Scaling board wipes (like Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge, and Mutilate will be good because your sphinxes will survive a majority of the time.

Once I got past the decision of WHAT to build, I'm quite fine with the deckbuilding. My trouble was that I was unable to decide what to brew. There are far too many possibilities, when there are 20k cards in MtG. Both 5colors deck and the Esper Blackblade have their positives. Also, why purchasing precon when I'll either got some of the cards or will lots of them throw away...

I don't like Oloro, Dakkon is definitely more cool. Otoh, Oloro is more powerful. Thanks for an advice.

By discard I meant things like Identity Crisis and such, cards that really make difference, definitely not Duress, of course. Esp. IC has the added bonus of stopping any gy based shenan... that word.
Speaking of counterspells, I still think that a few Dismiss-like spells that cantrip or w/e could be good. I definitely don't wanna lose my creatures to WoG.
Good idea on scaling mass removal that my dudes will survive thx to their high toughness. I'll also use the already mentioned Plague Wind and similar stuff. Austere Command looks good, too. Of all the sphinxes it would kill just Jelenn Sphinx and I'm definitely sure this one won't survive the initial phases of deck building... unless I'll go really crazy with the "all sphinxes available" idea, which I doubt, as half of them is not good enough even for the pubdeck.

Other than that, I don't see anything necessary. Sphinxes already draw cards, some kind of ramp is needed. There's lots of removal in WUB and some kind of tricks. Of all the equipment I'm considering the two haste shroud/hexproof boots, then of course Sword of the Meek (if it's legal) and Skullclamp (if Thopter Sword is legal). Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Equilibrium. Is it reasonable?

edit: What's the solid number of lands in tri-color deck with average cmc of... uhm... five? Lets say 35 lands and some 10 rocks?

[Davran]

Strange. I don't see them here:
http://duelcommander.com/banlist/
But thanks for reminding me what I dislike about the format - the fragmentation of EDH/singleton/Commander community. I definitely expect they're banned elsewhere.
Ok, I'll try to find some other fatties, maybe I'll stick to the Sphinxes-only idea.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using the 1v1 (or "french") banlist. I'm not all that familiar with that format - so the titans may well be legal. If you're playing under the "official" multiplayer list over at mtgcommander.net and the mothership they're banned as hell though.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using the 1v1 (or "french") banlist. I'm not all that familiar with that format - so the titans may well be legal. If you're playing under the "official" multiplayer list over at mtgcommander.net and the mothership they're banned as hell though.

That's the trouble. Some of our lgs uses one list, the other one uses another. I think I'll simply shy away from any card that's on any of the banlists and I should be fine. Speaking of it, it looks like both Sword of the Meek and Skullclamp will stay in the binder.

I'm still undecided on the whole thing. I'd like to play the 10 painlads (or even 15 if I find the strength to bother with TMP ones), I like the many cipt lands and ALA triples, I like the signets. Also, 5 colors are funnier than three colors; moreover sphinxes-only deck would suck as - even if I stay true to Esper - I couldn't use the many really powerful etb creatures like Shriekmaw/Nekrataal, Mulldrifter, Draining Whelk, Ashen Rider, etc.
Otoh, the Sphinxes are cool and it could be a bit different EDH than my usual "throw as many etb dudes in that pile". Also, there's hardly any fun in a 100% 100-cards-to-100-cards remake of my friend's 5 Colors ETB.dec.

Oh, the choices...

Btw, is there anything similar to Lavalanchethat would hit lands? I guess it isn't, as I would definitely know about such a powerful mass LD.

[Davran]

That's the trouble. Some of our lgs uses one list, the other one uses another. I think I'll simply shy away from any card that's on any of the banlists and I should be fine. Speaking of it, it looks like both Sword of the Meek and Skullclamp will stay in the binder.

I'm still undecided on the whole thing. I'd like to play the 10 painlads (or even 15 if I find the strength to bother with TMP ones), I like the many cipt lands and ALA triples, I like the signets. Also, 5 colors are funnier than three colors; moreover sphinxes-only deck would suck as - even if I stay true to Esper - I couldn't use the many really powerful etb creatures like Shriekmaw/Nekrataal, Mulldrifter, Draining Whelk, Ashen Rider, etc.
Otoh, the Sphinxes are cool and it could be a bit different EDH than my usual "throw as many etb dudes in that pile". Also, there's hardly any fun in a 100% 100-cards-to-100-cards remake of my friend's 5 Colors ETB.dec.

Oh, the choices...

Btw, is there anything similar to Lavalanchethat would hit lands? I guess it isn't, as I would definitely know about such a powerful mass LD.

To be honest, if you're going to play both 1v1 and regular 4 man pod EDH, you might want two separate decks if you really expect to do well. To think of it differently, it's a lot like showing up to legacy night with your best standard brew. Sure, the cards are all legal...but you're not going to get very far when you're slinging Infiltration Lens vs. the other 3 guys and their Skullclamps.

You could always do something with Burning Sands and Lavalanche...or I guess just stick to good old Devastation and friends.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

To be honest, if you're going to play both 1v1 and regular 4 man pod EDH, you might want two separate decks if you really expect to do well. To think of it differently, it's a lot like showing up to legacy night with your best standard brew. Sure, the cards are all legal...but you're not going to get very far when you're slinging Infiltration Lens vs. the other 3 guys and their Skullclamps.

You could always do something with Burning Sands and Lavalanche...or I guess just stick to good old Devastation and friends.

Yes, this is what I understand. I n fact I plan to play the deck(s) only in a pub with few friends, so it's not like I need to win it all. I'd much rather have some interesting or unusual deck, even if it would be crappy. Moreover, I don't want to spend too much money on it, simply for the fun of having a cheap pile. It's like I'm missing any idea, and those I got are all quite weak.

[Offler]

Maybe I'm just too serious about the whole thing. It's not like the decks would cost that much, so why shold I not build the two of them, a Sphinx one and the five colours insanity? I like the idea of fully non-basic, fully multi-colored manabase with lots of artifact ramp into bombs (and I'm serious about the bombiness, no wannabe stuff, but Identity Crisis, Plague Winds, Sundering Titan, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Conflux, Cruel Ultimatum, Decimate, etc.) that either end the game on their own or at least move me really further, but I similarly like the elegance of a Tribal Wars Classic: Sphinxes with Dakkon as the lion tamer.

When I first attempted to play MTG I started with "German Highlander" and when people stated with EDH I was reluctant to play it, but later was clear that EDH is much more popular around.

My first deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...age-of-Zhalfir

Most people around were skilled in Type 2, and mostly were unable to understand why are some cards good regardless "obvious power level". The deck above is able to win in 1 turn on combo and causes headache. Teferi is quite popular commander.

My second deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-The-ruin-sage

Anowon, the Ruin Sage isnt popular commander at all. Most people were recommending Olivia Voldaren or almost anything else, just not Anowon. This deck is the first non-combo I ever played and at some point it started to be very very effective. Especially when I added Sorin Markov, Temporal Extortion, Blood tribute, Quietus spike. I expected it will call some hate since people in "Type 2 playgroup" use to change game rules in a manner that Sorin change life to 20, while same group of people were convinced that they can win with early aggro gameplan...

Both these decks were quite cheap (with exception of one card in each of these).

After building the second one I realized that all you need is battleplan - to have an idea how to win. First deck provide multiple and creative ways how to archieve it, second provides mainly one way based on life.


Dakkon is interesting in similar way as my monoblack Anowon, but it allows more choices.

a) White and blue control
Counterspells, WoG, Planar Cleansings, Damnation and similar

b) Sphinxes
- Big creatures with flying
- Mostly at CMC 5+
This is similar to monoblack vampires I used. The main question what you will play in early game. In case of Anowon there are few smaller vampires, but mostly I have chosen some skeletons... But yes... Cats could be interesting in order to keep some flavor of the deck.

c) Major life loss
All black cards I used in anowon, + Magister Sphinx.

d) Evasion such as Rogue's Passage
Almost unusable in type 2, but I really appreciate this card in EDH.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

snip

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas!

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.

For the 5 Color ETB Control pile I got an idea of a deck built around lots of creatures with etb triggers and several ways how to blnk them, be it Crystal Shards, Astral Slide and w/e. Not really original, but I like it, and it may be pleasure to play all those stinky big dudes with laughable mana cost and insane abilities.

The Sphinxes deck... this one I'll try to build first. I'll use whatever the control elements I already got with few reasonable additions, mostly removal. And, I finally solved my dilemma "should I play all sphinxes available?". I came unto a conclusion when I was taking a shower in my job and I nearly ran out naked screaming "Hypergenesis!". I will simply use only the best Sphinxes. Just because there are mere thirty of them isn't a reason for my confusion - I definitely wouldn't play all Elves as I clearly see that not all of them are good enough for any deck. Why should be the Sphinxes any different then? I may keep the deck for decades, so it's not like there will be no more flying additions.
And, I don't even think that the deck really needs some early pressure. (Although cats would be funny.) After all it'll be a control deck.


Díky za nápady a rady!

[Davran]

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas!

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.

For the 5 Color ETB Control pile I got an idea of a deck built around lots of creatures with etb triggers and several ways how to blnk them, be it Crystal Shards, Astral Slide and w/e. Not really original, but I like it, and it may be pleasure to play all those stinky big dudes with laughable mana cost and insane abilities.

The Sphinxes deck... this one I'll try to build first. I'll use whatever the control elements I already got with few reasonable additions, mostly removal. And, I finally solved my dilemma "should I play all sphinxes available?". I came unto a conclusion when I was taking a shower in my job and I nearly ran out naked screaming "Hypergenesis!". I will simply use only the best Sphinxes. Just because there are mere thirty of them isn't a reason for my confusion - I definitely wouldn't play all Elves as I clearly see that not all of them are good enough for any deck. Why should be the Sphinxes any different then? I may keep the deck for decades, so it's not like there will be no more flying additions.
And, I don't even think that the deck really needs some early pressure. (Although cats would be funny.) After all it'll be a control deck.


Díky za nápady a rady!

At the risk of insulting your intelligence, Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes. So, it's not legal for play in a Dakkon Blackblade Sphinx Tribal deck since his color identity is esper. I'm sure you knew that already...but if you didn't, maybe Karona, False God is a way to make both decks at once? I played against a 5C sphinx tribal Karona deck on MODO once, and it was pretty sweet.

[Offler]

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas!

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.

Not sure if you are serious, but you're welcome :)

When i use self-imposed limits its usually monocolored tribal :) Anowon was at first planned as "troll deck" of some sort. Main goal was to force oponnents to start play blue counterspells rather than playing cards like Vindicate. Nobody did so, and the deck became more sucessful I planned.

Most cards I used there rarely see play in Modern or other 60 card formats, but I was surprised that are also not used in format like EDH. Following this philosophy usually leads to cheap cards (money-wise) such as Night dealings - 7 Kč on Černý rytíř, or Sickening dreams - 5 Kč. Most sphinxes are in same category.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes.

What card is Hypergenesis without suspend?

Eureka!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

At the risk of insulting your intelligence, Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes. So, it's not legal for play in a Dakkon Blackblade Sphinx Tribal deck since his color identity is esper. I'm sure you knew that already...but if you didn't, maybe Karona, False God is a way to make both decks at once? I played against a 5C sphinx tribal Karona deck on MODO once, and it was pretty sweet.

Nono, I wasn't thinking of Hypergenesis in Esper, it was an allusion to one ancient philosopher that ran naked on streets screaming "Hypergenesis!" after he discovered he may play only the good sphinxes, not all the printed ones.

Not sure if you are serious, but you're welcome :)

When i use self-imposed limits its usually monocolored tribal :) Anowon was at first planned as "troll deck" of some sort. Main goal was to force oponnents to start play blue counterspells rather than playing cards like Vindicate. Nobody did so, and the deck became more sucessful I planned.

Most cards I used there rarely see play in Modern or other 60 card formats, but I was surprised that are also not used in format like EDH. Following this philosophy usually leads to cheap cards (money-wise) such as Night dealings - 7 Kč on Černý rytíř, or Sickening dreams - 5 Kč. Most sphinxes are in same category.

I am serious, those were interesting ideas.
And, I'm also surprised that some cards see no play in 100-cards format. Like really, what's wrong about Sphinx of Fact or Fiction? Ok, it's quite expensive mana-wise, but it still shouldn't cost 4 crowns...

What card is Hypergenesis without suspend?

Eureka!

Ok, I'm going to spend the weekend with some tinkering and with MKM search. I guess I won't be alble to build the deck with a 314 CZK credit on Černý rytíř (some 15 dollars), but I guess I'll design some sweet pile with my MKM savings.
I like the 5 color idea more and more. I guess I may look for some secondary funny tribe. I imagine something like...

Sphinxes vs. Dragons

...might be solid fun. But then again dragons are sooo ordinary. (Ok, Kavus are better, but...)

[Ace/Homebrew]

I like the 5 color idea more and more. I guess I may look for some secondary funny tribe.

How about Elementals? Gatherer says there are 326, so there's a decent pool. There's even some old school classics like Air Elemental and Fire Elemental.
Horde of Notions would be the most fitting 5C general and allows for good/fun/silly interactions with the evoke elementals (like Shriekmaw, Ingot Chewer, Mulldrifter). Plus you don't have to sell a kidney to afford them.