Build the 5Color Control
Fly like a butterfly, sting like a sphinx
Troll with Geddons, lol, lol!
Rhaingold, dude. All German, obv.
Get out of our site.
I just built a Karador deck that I love to play, and I totally agree with this. If you look at my list and some sort of "average" Karador list I'm willing to bet they're nearly identical. I think that's part of the problem with such polarized and powerful commanders. The simple fact is that your handicapping yourself if you play something powerful and "known" by being different - everyone assumes you're playing the fully-powered version anyway, so you might as well just go for it. If you're looking to be unique you need a unique general. I promise that no two Barktooth Warbeard lists are identical.Originally Posted by Megadeus
If you really want green/white, and you really want to be different, grab yourself a Gabriel Angelfire or some shit, and watch your enemies quake in the face of that Rampage 3.
I'm not saying that you NEED to be different or anything. Just that I like to play things that are more unexpected. I always wanted to build Saffi in GW. I guess it would essentially just be GW weenie, but you could also build it as like a GW deck that abuses ETB effects. When your dude dies to a wrath/chump block, you can Saffi it back for another ETB Trigger. Idk. Just my brainstormed ideas.
Yep, you're 100% right, that's why I kinda like Pavel's crap deck. It's really funny to watch the people struggle against his pile of bad cards, esp. when they try to assemble some insane beta foil two-card-I-win combo and... ooops, "eot Piper-out Thraximundar, swing with Unscythe, tap Legacy Weapon, nice board you had there..."
Last edited by Bed Decks Palyer; 06-11-2014 at 10:49 PM.
Ok, the choice was done and is set in stone, it'll be a plain GW with emphasis on etb and ltb creatures.
From the available generals I've chosen Saffi, as she goes well with the theme. If I'll realize she's too good - or too bad -, I may always switch her for anyone else.
I think that Karametra would be pretty good general, too. She will give a completely different feel to the deck, and it's a very reasonable choice, as ramping is quite a powerful strategy I heard. Moreover the etb guys use the very same engine (be it Erratic Portal or w/e) but with really different outcome depending on the general used.
Sigarda or Krond are always a good choice, too, if only I'd decide to straighten the deck into some creature rush. Chorus' bonus seems to be unimportant when casting 8/8 dudes, so she's out of question; but I consider her to be an interesting choice, just like Trostani.
From the tier2 generals, there's no one that really shines and the even lower tier choices, the Legends dudes with their amazing art and flavor are exactly that: dudes with amazing art and flavor, but not that amazing abilities.
List ot follow once I'll settle on some. :)
Pavel, what's your budget? Is the 100 crowns per card limit still in use? Not that I'll stay true to your rules, but I may follow them at least a bit.
It is bit more complicated:)
When I started with deck, the idea was to play 5color, I like possibility to play every printed card in the future, 101 Highlander deck full of powerfull but cheap cards, because I didnt want to destroy expensive cards I had (mana crypt, duals, fetchlands, tutors etc.) in the pub and I also hated to tutor something almost every turn, its slowing down the game and is boring to me, I just wanted to play easy piloted deck full of monsters and value cards:)
I used price limit 100 crowns (5$) per card according to http://www.cernyrytir.cz/
then changed this rule to not to spend more then 100 crowns (5$) per card, because I was tired to check often changed prices on the web.
In fact the most expensive card I bought for this deck was reflecting pool for 70,- (3,5$).
During the time some cards prices went over this limit a lot and I deicided to get rid of them from money purposes (emrakul, maelstrom archangel, lord of extinction etc.) It is funny, because both maelstrom archangel and lord of extinction were awful cards in this deck, I replaced them with cheap foils (Sphinx of Uthuun and Rune-Scarred Demon) and deck is way more powerfull than before.
Sometimes people cryed a lot about other cards because of power and non fun factor so I also deicided to get rid of them (identity crisis, cataclysm).
I remember games against Marting Siling, where I played identity crisis on turn 4 three times in a row, I laught a lot but he didnt:)
Nowadays the most expensive cards are foil thraximundar (I purchased for 30,- (1,5$) when nobody wanted him), foil draining whelk and some cards went over 100 crowns limit on http://www.cernyrytir.cz/ during the time (reflecting pool, stroke of genius, worldly tutor, mind´s eye, hellkite overlord, phyrexian arena, elvish piper)
When EDH started to be more and more popular and everyone asked me for my general I simply purchased Horde of Notions (5 crowns) without touching the rest of the deck, that is why I dont play more elementals and still dont have command tower...
Last edited by datanaga; 06-13-2014 at 08:29 AM.
This is reasonable, I'll do something similar. does my 15 years old Sylvan Library straight from the booster count as a 45-crowns card?
You should purchase the Tower, it doesn't cost anything. You'll leave more money on a desk for a beer or soup.
It is not question of money, I still have some points against that OP Command Tower:
1. I hate design of this card, like everyone should play it because is strictly superior to other lands.
If your commander is multicolored this simply reduce your deckbuilding to 99 cards. Which is really stupid in format where you need exactly 100 cards in deck.
2. Sometimes I play this deck like highlander without commander/general and this land is doing nothing.
3. I like my full cycles (15 fourth edition basics with different pictures, 5 vivids, 5 shards triple lands, 10 painlands (very soon), reflecting pool and opposite exotic orchard, I dont want to cut any of these lands in favor of Tower.
4. I dont think I desperately need it, even though it would be superb in my deck of course.
I dont want to say I will never play it, but hope my points make sense:)
Yes, most of these points really make sense, except for the one with the painlands which I don't really understand. Do you plan to acquire the Adarkars through trades or what?
So this is what I tinker with for past week or so. I'm just goldfishing the pile - as much as "goldfishing" an EDH is possible and meaningful -, to get some idea of how the deck flows, etc. The list:
General: Karametra, Goddess of Harvests
Lieutnants:
Saffi Eriksdotter
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Qty Name
1 Krosan Verge
1 Temple Garden
15 Forest
15 Plains
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grasslands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Mistveil Plains
//\\
// Creatures
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Fleetfoot Panther
1 Dust Elemental
1 Stonecloaker
1 Thragtusk
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Karmic Guide
1 Angel of Finality
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Admonition Angel
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Panglacial Wurm
1 Blazing Archon
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wall of Roots
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Roaring Primadox
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Monk Idealist
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Terastodon
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Sun Titan
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Stampeding Wildebeests
1 Eiganjo Free-Riders
//\\
// Spells
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Aura Shards
1 Beast Within
1 Sterling Grove
1 Plea for Guidance
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abundance
1 Greater Good
1 Wild Pair
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Privileged Position
1 Genesis Wave
1 Condemn
1 Return to Dust
I've noticed that while Kara as a conditional 6/7 is not exactly powerful, her ability is, surprise, surprise.
Most of the creatures are chosen for their etb effect, some of them plainly ramp or have some interesting ability (see the dragon commando or life gain dudes). The gating creatures are my equivalent of Erratic Portal. Most of the critters work fine with Wild Pair, except for the sole 3/3 rhino. (I consider adding Emeria Angel and Courser of Kruphix.) Sterling Grove cards are meant as way to protect at least Kara alone, but also the other Ench-Cret beings.
The manabase is as straightforward as possible. I need just one of each color to play Kara which should fix my colors with any creature drawn. I used very little utility lands and there are some crap fetches to shuffle the Library.
I'd love to squeeze in some Eldrazi (preferbly Pathrazer and Artisan), but I can live without them. Salami Simulant would be useful too, but w/e.
There are not enough removal in non-creature slots, and some of the other card choice are quite clunky/funky e.g. Wild Pair.
I like the elegance of GW build and on a paper it looks solid against a similarly underpowered deck. It uses no broken cards and it uses no fugly cards. I like the deck and I'm halfway thru collecting it via MKM.
Your deck looks solid and should be fun to play it, it is not overpowered but on the other hand full or nice and really powerfull cards, Im glad that you are not including any instant win combo like rip-helm.
Yeah, the insta-win comobs are annoying and I won't be using them in a pub settings.
There are some quite solid interactions, though, like the obvious Saffi+Yosei+GG or some tricks with stack and gating creatures. But it's mostly harmless pile of non-brokeness.
Also, I'm not sure it's 100% final version, as there are few cards that might get changed. But mostly it's fixed now.
I think it'll be ready in two weeks.
I used to be against the whole "oops, I win" combo finish as a thing...and then I played a 2 hour game with no end in sight. Sometimes you just need/want the game to be over. I look at it this way: there's no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to go off, so it doesn't hurt to have access to the combo kill. To give an example, my "main" deck is Karador, and I have the whole Mike + Trike thing in there, plus Tooth and Nail and a whole bunch of other tutors I could use to find it. More often than not, I find myself trying to get there without the combo as that's much more fun...but every once in a while it's nice to just be able to pull the trigger and end a stalled out game.
I like your list. What about something like Yeva, Nature's Herald and/or Vedalken Orrery to interact with the Wildebeasts and Roaring Primadox? Seedborn Muse is also on-theme with that plan, but it might be a little higher in power level than what you're looking for here.
I'm also a really big fan of Stingerfling Spider in my green 187-type decks. No one ever sees it coming, and there's usually something with flying to kill (or more than one something).
I agree with your reasoning on the combo kills. I remeber a pentagram game we've had few years ago when we literally relieved after a dude finally comboed us out with WGD. It was a game that seemed to never end, and we never really expected the combo, even though he played several Vamp. Tutors thanks to Eternal Witness and stuff. Then it camne out of nowhere after a well timed Entomb for the named Dragon... :-D
Btw, that guy has a fully old-frame RGB Highlander with the only exception from the frame rule being the Eternal Witness and three new fetchlands. Really amazing work!
Back to topic: what I dislike about having the access to the combo and not using it is that it brings unnecessary tension. What I dislike about EDH is the so-called "spirit of format" that many people swear to, and so they actively seek to not win in a most efficient way possible and/or mock the ppl who try to win. I dislike this attitude, as MtG is a competitive, not cooperative game, and I play it for the win. (If I'd want to look at cards, I may do it in Gatherer, there's no need for the dicking around with dices, sleeves and beers.) That's why I much more hate when people who have a chance to Strip Mine me out of game DON'T do it. But that's for another discussion.
However, yes, ok. I do concede to your point that there should be some kind of "oops, game is over", but I still don't want to use it. First of all, there's no reason, I guess most of my games will be against Pavel alone. Second, I don't want to cut any single creature (in fact IDK how to force Angel of Serenity somewhere), it doesn't look reasonable to cut any non-creature spell (the list is already stretched and I esp. dislike the very few removal spells) and of course I won't touch my manabase, as the deck is pretty mana-hungry.
Speaking of your ideas:
I'm not exactly thrilled with Vedalken Orrery. Look, it's definitely a powerful card, but it could be a strange topdeck and doesn't really work well with the whole idea of my deck.
Otoh, Yeva, Nature's Herald, is very interesting and pretty much no-brainer... if only I know what to cut. (So far the Sylvan Caryatid seems the less necessary, except that it ramps and Wild Pairs with EW). Yeva would give the deck an interesting angle, it Pairs with gorillion of my creatures and being a 4/4 dude, it's never a dead card.
I like Seedborn Muse. In fact, I like it a lot. It's pretty powerful, esp. in 3+ players, so I'll keep her in mind in case I'll find another weak link.
That spider is solid, and together with Acid Web Spider, they both were on my preliminary list. Thing is that they are quite situational, otoh, with Stampeding Wildebeests in play, this one turns to repeatable removal of all those Akromas, Tenebs, etc. Note that with Yeva in play, this may even stop the WGD combo. :)
Ok, so here's the maybeboard:
Angel of Serenity - definitely needed, with any gating creature this is a permanent exile, moreover it supplements Angel of Finality as a gy hoser.
Yeva, Nature's Herald - seems really powerful. Note that I don't play ONLY green creatures, but it still isn't completely bad
Seedborn Muse - also strong card. Nigh autoinclude.
the pair of spiders - a bit lower in food chain, but still quite reasonable include. The Acid Web Dude is maybe not exactly needed, now when I play Harmonic Sliver, Uktabi Orngutan and Indrik Stomphowler, but the Stingerfling Spider should be considered.
Maybecuts:
Greater Auramancy - there may be far too many of these effects already: Sterling Grove, Privileged Position and Archetype of Endurance. (Btw, someone sent me the boar as a filler card, I was pretty happy about it!) Otoh, with all the important enchantments I play, this one might be solid way to protect them.
Return to Dust - like... seriously? Isn't there enough removal already?
Sylvan Caryatid - it can't block anything greater than Witness, Solemn, Uktabi, or Trinket (of the usualy played 2/x ground poundrs) and as such, it's quite unimportant to have a wall, I may play BoP instead. But the whole idea of "tap to add" creatures is senseless, as I plan to ramp through creatures->lands, not through birds/stones->mana. Every sweeper will kill the wall and I'd rather decrease my chance for turn4 Kara, then decrease my chance for a solid topdeck later in game.
Eiganjo Free-Riders - ok, there is Primadox and Wildebeests, but Riders serve an important role, they return white creatures what Wildebeests cannot. Maybe I can cut the whole package down to Primadox, but I noticed that I need this kind of effect asap. Moreover it's not sure Primadox will survive, and there's that Wild Pair thing (Fleetfoot Panther is useful with any of the three, yet it can findonly the Free-Riders). In short: the more the better. For now I'll keep them.
I'm always in the same spot you are with a new deck...you've got your pile and an argument for why every card that's in it is the best choice possible. Then you play a few games and some card just rots in your hand every time, or there's some creature you always pass over with Wild Pair or some other tutor effect. My advice is to keep the maybeboard handy somewhere, and just get out there and play. After a few games, the strengths/weaknesses of your list will become clear, and you can tweak things accordingly.
As for the whole "casual" vs. "competitive" thing and the "spirit of the format": For me, the "spirit" of EDH is whatever the hell you want it to be. If you want to run a combo, run a combo. If not, then don't. Personally, I find it useful to have access to one, but that's just, like, my opinion man. I try not to worry about what's in my opponent's decks and just play the game in front of me, but again, that's just my style. I do agree that sometimes people have it out for you simply because you chose the general you did, or they played some guy last month who did something "broken" with that card you just cast, or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that you'll never assemble a pile of 100 cards that pleases everyone you see or play against, so you might as well build the deck YOU want to play. If your opponents have a problem with that, it's not your fault. There are literally thousands of cards to choose from, so why should anyone have to select from the few hundred that the masses have deemed "acceptable"?
Yep, this is reasonable. :)
The penultimate time I built a highlander was in 1999 or so, and it was pretty easier than today, with a cardpool much much lesser. Maybe I'll even find out the old list. Fast forward ten years and I'm back to EDH with a BGW Teneb pile. I was overwhelmed by the possibilities, even though I decided to play old frame only.
I hope it won't be that hurtful process this time. :)
You're right!
Btw, could you share a link to your monogreen EDH? I'm pretty interested in it. Green is my favourite color.
edit:
Oh, and Muse must be in. The interaction between Kara, Muse and any gating creature is funny. I'll pull most of my lands out of the deck before the turn returns to me.
I don't really have a mono-green deck together right now as my limited collection of staples is sleeved up for Karador, but here's the list I've been tinkering with for a while:
Commander:
Yeva, Nature's Herald
Creatures:
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Scavenging Ooze
Courser of Kruphix
Eternal Witness
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Viridian Corrupter
Wood Elves
Yavimaya Elder
Eidolon of Blossoms
Oracle of Mul Daya
Roaring Primadox
Stampeding Wildebeests
Wolfbriar Elemental
Acidic Slime
Indrik Stomphowler
Seedborn Muse
Stingerfling Spider
Bane of Progress
Deadwood Treefolk
Duplicant
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Soul of the Harvest
Avenger of Zendikar
Hornet Queen
Pelakka Wurm
Woodfall Primus
Worldspine Wurm
Instant:
Crop Rotation
Nature's Claim
Worldly Tutor
Deglamer
Beast Within
Chord of Calling
Momentous Fall
Sorcery:
Green Sun's Zenith
Nature's Lore
Sylvan Scrying
Harmonize
Skyshroud Claim
Primal Command
Artifact:
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Lightning Greaves
Strionic Resonator
Swiftfoot Boots
Bow of Nylea
Cloudstone Curio
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Birthing Pod
Enchantment:
Exploration
Wild Growth
Sylvan Library
Beastmaster Ascension
Abundance
Arboria
Nature's Will
Asceticism
Primeval Bounty
Planeswalker:
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Karn Liberated
Lands:
Buried Ruin
Dryad Arbor
High Market
Homeward Path
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Strip Mine
Thespian's Stage
Tranquil Thicket
Yavimaya Hollow
27 Forest
Ideally, there'd be a Gaea's Cradle in here...but that's too rich for my blood. If I ever actually build the deck, I'll probably use Snow Forests and Mouth of Ronom...because why not.
Good job. I like the deck, although the missing Cradle is quite obvious. Otoh, it's not like you must play every staple printed.
I'm quite disappointed that Sylvan Primordial is banned, but I guess that it was far too powerful creature. Also, I'm a bit surprised with the lack of Greater Good in your list, but I guess there are not enough really big bad boys to use GG effectively.
I'd expect to see both Stampeding Wildebeests and Serow in your deck, but it looks like you don't have enough space for them. Back in my pre-competitive days, I loved the antelopes and had a really nice deck built around them... and quite strong for a kitchen table metagame.
Yeah, true...but I really do think mono green needs Sylvan Library and such. Besides, I'm having way too much fun with Karador right now. It's getting to the point where I'm the archenemy in some games, and I'm really liking the challenge. One of these days I'll take a step back from all of that and actually sleeve this up...Good job. I like the deck, although the missing Cradle is quite obvious. Otoh, it's not like you must play every staple printed.
I'm quite disappointed that Sylvan Primordial is banned, but I guess that it was far too powerful creature. Also, I'm a bit surprised with the lack of Greater Good in your list, but I guess there are not enough really big bad boys to use GG effectively.
I'd expect to see both Stampeding Wildebeests and Serow in your deck, but it looks like you don't have enough space for them. Back in my pre-competitive days, I loved the antelopes and had a really nice deck built around them... and quite strong for a kitchen table metagame.
Greater Good could be ok, but as you say most of the creatures are small.
I honestly didn't know there was a more or less functional reprint of the Wildebeests...I took a break right around kamigawa block. There's probably room in there somewhere if you really want it.
I switched from Teneb to Karador after some time, but I didn't changed the deck completely, so it wasn't built around the new general. but it was still pretty brutal.
I think that speaking of Karador, one may quote a post few days back, the post about polarizing generals and their effect and deck building and gameplay. I think that Kara isn't hat polarizing, but I may be wrong. At least from how the deck goldfishes, I'm under impression that she doesn't force me anywhere...
Yep, GG seems bad here. You play quite some sacrifice outlets, so hopefully StP and such shouldn't be trouble.
I was pretty excited when Serow came out, but then again it was during atime when I returned to MtG via tournament play and there's hardly any reason to twiddle with Serow in a competitive setting... while for a kitchen table company (moreover non-existant anymore), it had a perfectly bad frame.
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