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Thread: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

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    [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    I've been brewing this deck for a long time now, and finally got around to acquiring the rest of the cards that I needed to put it together for real. To make a long story short, I've been wanting to build a deck to accompany my "casual" Mistform Ultimus list that was much more "competitive". Some of the stuff in this deck is still a little sub-par, but I'll definitely be trying to improve this as time goes on. Any suggestions are definitely welcome.

    Commander:
    Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Creatures:
    Dryad Arbor
    Birds of Paradise
    Viscera Seer
    Blood Artist
    Qasali Pridemage
    Sakura-Tribe Elder
    Scavenging Ooze
    Viridian Emissary
    Big Game Hunter
    Eternal Witness
    Farhaven Elf
    Fleshbag Marauder
    Necrotic Sliver
    Nyx Weaver
    Reclamation Sage
    Dimir House Guard
    Disciple of Bolas
    Oracle of Mul Daya
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Acidic Slime
    Golgari Grave-Troll
    Karmic Guide
    Reveillark
    Shadowborn Demon
    Champion of Stray Souls
    Kokusho, the Evening Star
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    Sun Titan
    Triskelion
    Avenger of Zendikar
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Rune-Scarred Demon
    Woodfall Primus

    Instants:
    Vampiric Tutor
    Abrupt Decay
    Grisly Salvage
    Beast Within
    Chord of Calling
    Krosan Grip

    Sorcery:
    Green Sun's Zenith
    Demonic Tutor
    Farseek
    Regrowth
    Buried Alive
    Cultivate
    Kodama's Reach
    Maelstrom Pulse
    Victimize
    Tooth and Nail

    Artifacts:
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Skullclamp
    Sol Ring
    Ashnod's Altar
    Oblivion Stone
    Birthing Pod

    Enchantments:
    Animate Dead
    Sylvan Library
    Pernicious Deed
    Phyrexian Arena
    Grave Pact
    Greater Good
    Dictate of Erebos

    Lands:
    City of Brass
    Command Tower
    Evolving Wilds
    Fetid Heath
    4 Forest
    Gavony Township
    Godless Shrine
    Grasslands
    Homeward Path
    Isolated Chapel
    Llanowar Wastes
    Marsh Flats
    Murmuring Bosk
    Overgrown Tomb
    2 Plains
    Strip Mine
    Sunpetal Grove
    4 Swamp
    Temple Garden
    Temple of Plenty
    Temple of Silence
    Temple of the False God
    Terramorphic Expanse
    Twilight Mire
    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Vault of the Archangel
    Verdant Catacombs
    Volrath's Stronghold
    Woodland Cemetery
    Yavimaya Hollow


    Playing the deck is relatively obvious. Cast and sacrifice creatures for fun and profit, then cast Karador and take over the game. The deck is designed around Brithing Pod. Most creatures net you some sort of trigger that can be abused again and again with Karador and the other recursion options in the deck.

    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion go "infinite" to end the table if you're at that point. If you're unfamiliar with the combo, the idea is to remove counters from Triskelion to do 2 damage to an opponent and 1 damage to the Triskelion itself. When it dies, it will have undying and return to play with an extra counter. From there, you can do 3 damage to an opponent and 1 to the Triskelion until everyone else is dead.

    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed also interacts favorably with Woodfall Primus and Kokusho, the Evening Star to end the game provided you also have a sacrifice outlet in play.

    Wishlist:
    Windswept Heath
    Survival of the Fittest
    Temple of Malady
    Krosan Verge
    Diabolic Intent
    Vindicate
    Living Death

    Maybeboard:
    Ashen Rider
    Gray Merchant of Asphodel
    Nim Deathmantle
    Lord of Extinction
    Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
    Fauna Shaman
    Dread Return
    Last edited by Davran; 07-26-2014 at 01:37 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Gonna need 100% more Champion of Stray Souls
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

  3. #3
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Amarth View Post
    Gonna need 100% more Champion of Stray Souls
    That guy actually seems like it could be a powerhouse in here. Any thoughts on a weak link?

    I'm also relatively excited about this spoiler from Conspiracy:

    Deathreap Ritual 2BG

    Enchantment

    Morbid - At the beginning of each end step, if a creature died this turn, you may draw a card.

  4. #4

    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    That guy actually seems like it could be a powerhouse in here. Any thoughts on a weak link?

    I'm also relatively excited about this spoiler from Conspiracy:

    Deathreap Ritual 2BG

    Enchantment

    Morbid - At the beginning of each end step, if a creature died this turn, you may draw a card.
    Hm. Not really. The deck looks pretty dang solid as-is. I've never been huge on the transmute guys so maybe House Guard?

    That enchantment seems pretty sweet too.

    Looks like High Market would be pretty sweet in here. What about Living Death? Vindicate?
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Amarth View Post
    Hm. Not really. The deck looks pretty dang solid as-is. I've never been huge on the transmute guys so maybe House Guard?

    That enchantment seems pretty sweet too.

    Looks like High Market would be pretty sweet in here. What about Living Death? Vindicate?
    House Guard is mostly there as a sacrifice outlet with legs that also happens to find Birthing Pod if need be...but it is probably the weakest link.

    I need to pick up a High Market for sure. Living Death is probably a good call too, and Vindicate is in line behind Windswept Heath and Survival of the Fittest for "big money" purchases. I'm hoping to pick up Pernicious Deed at some point too.

    The deck has been loads of fun so far. Now I just need to tune it.

  6. #6
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    I've been playing quite a bit with this list and it's been all kinds of fun. That said, I've been thinking about making a couple changes:

    Defense of the Heart is a strong magic card, but the people I typically play with are too good at magic (if that makes any sense) for it to actually do anything. It mostly acts as "each opponent may not control more than 2 creatures" while causing everyone to attack me, or it just rots in my hand while I wait for someone to build up a big enough board presence. I definitely want to live the dream of casting it into a full board and just winning on my next upkeep, but a lot of things need to go right for that to actually happen. I was able to trade some bulk for a Champion of Stray Souls, so I'm going to give that a shot over Defense of the Heart.

    The other thing I seem to be struggling with is having access to enough utility out of my graveyard for Karador to mess around with. The obvious solution is to add some number of cards with Dredge to the list, but I'm not sure how open to Rest in Peace and other hosers I really want to be...so I think I'll start small.

    Puppeteer Clique is a fine card and I'm happy with it, but I think Golgari Grave-troll will ultimately be better in its place.

    Fierce Empath is semi-redundant with all of the other tutor power in the deck, and with the addition of dredgers is somewhat superfluous...so I'll use its slot for Stinkweed Imp

    In summary:

    Out:
    Defense of the Heart
    Puppeteer Clique
    Fierce Empath

    In:
    Champion of Stray Souls
    Golgari Grave-Troll
    Stinkweed Imp

    Here's hoping that the reprint of Pernicious Deed in Conspiracy lands some in trade binders...I'd love to fit one in the list (probably over Oblation or Krosan Grip).

  7. #7
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Drafted conspiracy last week and was passed back to back Unexpected Potential and Pernicious Deed, which was pretty great for my draft deck. I had grabbed the Potential for an early Brimstone Volley that turned out to not match my colors, but the Deed was easily better. Long story short, I own a Deed now...so:

    - Krosan Grip, + Pernicious Deed

    This deck continues to perform excellently. I've stumbled on lands, been wrathed right before a critical turn, had my graveyard exiled...you name it, and I still hit that turn where I feel like I can't lose. The addition of the Dredgers has been a bit of a mixed blessing. On one hand, they help to get things going. On the other, I find it can be difficult to get them back into the graveyard when I start to use them. I think the deck needs something like Survival of the Fittest and/or Fauna Shaman to really supercharge the dredge plan, but I'm still not sure I want to go all in on that line. More testing will tell if it's really needed or not I guess.

  8. #8
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Now that we have the whole set spoiled I figured I'd do a quick M15 review:

    Ob Nixilis, Unshackled is one of those cards that I'm sure someone is super excited about, but I'm really not. I'm mostly hoping that no one in my playgroup decides to play it since this deck searches its library quite a bit. Pass.

    Reclamation Sage is strong and will probably substitute in for Harmonic Sliver as it has 2 power instead of 1, is still Skullclampable, and is theoretically easier to cast. There's also those weird situations where you give someone's sliver deck an early Aura Shards...but those are so few and far between that it's hardly a selection criteria. I may also keep the Sliver in and swap out Fiend Hunter for the Sage as Fiend Hunter has been somewhat lack-luster most of the time.

    Garruk, Apex Predator is interesting, but the only mode that's really relevant here is his -3 ability as the deck doesn't have much use for beast tokens and there are easier ways to kill planeswalkers.

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Reclamation Sage is strong and will probably substitute in for Harmonic Sliver as it has 2 power instead of 1, is still Skullclampable, and is theoretically easier to cast.
    Also, it is a may trigger, which may matter in case you need to chump wihout killing the sole enchantment in play, your own Library/Abundance/w-e.
    Definitely an upgrade to sliver, and I like that it's non-white, we may use it in our monogreen piles.

  10. #10
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Also, it is a may trigger, which may matter in case you need to chump wihout killing the sole enchantment in play, your own Library/Abundance/w-e.
    Definitely an upgrade to sliver, and I like that it's non-white, we may use it in our monogreen piles.
    Oh man, I totally missed the "may" in there. Yeah, this will be replacing the sliver for sure.

    It will definitely wind up in any mono-green pile I build too. I always thought it was weird that Viridian Shaman (and by extension Viridian Corrupter) couldn't hit enchantments...although I do like the idea of Corrupter as a shatter with "wither" stapled on to it (more or less).

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Oh man, I totally missed the "may" in there. Yeah, this will be replacing the sliver for sure.

    It will definitely wind up in any mono-green pile I build too. I always thought it was weird that Viridian Shaman (and by extension Viridian Corrupter) couldn't hit enchantments...although I do like the idea of Corrupter as a shatter with "wither" stapled on to it (more or less).
    For some reason I guess the Viridian Shatterers seems quite flavourful, you know "lets smash this unnatural weapon, while keeping the aura of our forest intact", etc/we. Also, I kinda like when the creature-spells and spell-creatures got at least some limit, like "we can't hit everything" or "the trigger ain't optional". It makes the cards much more interesting (though less powerful, ofc), because they're much more situational. Compare Maelstorm Pulse with Vindicate. While I'm not even sure which one of them is more powerful - I guess the pricetag says it's Vindicate - I really think there's no question which one is more interesting; Pulse.

    Back to topic: I think new Garruk is weak. I costs far too much for his effects.

  12. #12
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    For some reason I guess the Viridian Shatterers seems quite flavourful, you know "lets smash this unnatural weapon, while keeping the aura of our forest intact", etc/we. Also, I kinda like when the creature-spells and spell-creatures got at least some limit, like "we can't hit everything" or "the trigger ain't optional". It makes the cards much more interesting (though less powerful, ofc), because they're much more situational. Compare Maelstorm Pulse with Vindicate. While I'm not even sure which one of them is more powerful - I guess the pricetag says it's Vindicate - I really think there's no question which one is more interesting; Pulse.

    Back to topic: I think new Garruk is weak. I costs far too much for his effects.
    Vindicate wins because it hits permanents, not nonland permanents. The "everything with the same name" clause on Pulse does make it more interesting and more useful in EDH (in my opinion anyway), but ultimately I think Vindicate is the better card for constructed assuming you could reasonably run both.

    As for Garruk - I think he's fine as a curve-topper if you're playing BG Rock/Stax or something. You're trading 7 mana for 3 reasonable abilities, and his ultimate is a nice way to close out a game if you can get there. He's certainly more interesting than Vraska in that sort of deck. In a "competitive" deck like this one that's looking to wring value out of every card in the list he's definitely not all that great. To be honest, I don't think there are really any planeswalkers I would want to run in this kind of deck - I have plenty of better and more impactful things to be doing.

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    This deck continues to perform very well, and has become the deck people ask me to play when they want to roll out their own "busted" decks. I've made a couple of quick tweaks to the list:

    - Oblation, + Krosan Grip

    Oblation is nice for the ability to tuck something, but I'm too afraid of Rest in Peace and it's ilk to only have one "uncounterable" answer. Besides, I don't have a foil Oblation and my Grip is foil...so yeah.

    - Stinkweed Imp, + Nyx Weaver

    I'm not sure why I overlooked Nyx Weaver at first. Milling two cards a turn with no additional investment is nice, and the ability to randomly get something back if I need it is a nice bonus. Plus, the body isn't terrible.

    - Harmonic Sliver, + Reclamation Sage

    Nothing to see here. An upgrade in every sense of the word.

    - Academy Rector, + Shadowborn Demon

    Academy Rector is nice and all...but there's not really all that much to grab in this deck. I'm going to try out the Demon as a self-sacrificing, easily recurrable piece of removal.

    - Fiend Hunter, + Grisly Salvage

    Fiend Hunter is fine...but it's not great, especially in a format full of Wraths. I don't really have any way to mess around with blinking it to permanently remove something, and with so few sacrifice outlets that rarely comes up either. I'm hoping that Grisly Salvage will help to fill my yard faster with toys for Karador.

  14. #14

    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    I jam Weaver and Salvage in my graveyard heavy decks and they're awesome. Also agree with the K. Grip change. Typically, I think it's better. Usually. I love the flexibility of Oblation but Grip is unique, probably mandatory in some metas, and I love those kind of effects in my decks. Sometimes 100 cards isn't enough. T_T
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Amarth View Post
    I jam Weaver and Salvage in my graveyard heavy decks and they're awesome. Also agree with the K. Grip change. Typically, I think it's better. Usually. I love the flexibility of Oblation but Grip is unique, probably mandatory in some metas, and I love those kind of effects in my decks. Sometimes 100 cards isn't enough. T_T
    I'm happy with Weaver so far with the exception of the one game where I couldn't find any creatures to mill off, but that's a variance thing and not a slight against the card in any way. I've even gone as far as tutoring it up early, which worked quite well. Salvage has been good too, though I haven't drawn it as often.

    You're definitely right about 100 cards not being enough. I currently have no idea what to cut if we get some sweet tech out of Khans...but I guess we'll see.

    Anyone have any thoughts on a better sacrifice outlet than Dimir House Guard? I've never used its transmute ability, and I rarely if ever want to see it. What I do find myself lacking is a useful sacrifice outlet to get around Man-o-War type effects and/or exiling removal. I would obviously prefer if it were a creature for the synergy with Pod and Karador...but the right call might just be Altar of Dementia or something.

  16. #16

    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran;826338
    Anyone have any thoughts on a better sacrifice outlet than [cards
    Dimir House Guard[/cards]? I've never used its transmute ability, and I rarely if ever want to see it. What I do find myself lacking is a useful sacrifice outlet to get around Man-o-War type effects and/or exiling removal. I would obviously prefer if it were a creature for the synergy with Pod and Karador...but the right call might just be Altar of Dementia or something.
    Have you tried Carrion Feeder? I know multiplayer EDH is a different breed from (French) 1 vs 1, but in my french karador EDH he's a total house.
    Basicly it's very easy to get him to infinite proporations (f.i. reveillark or Karmic guide + saffi ericsdotter, karmic guide + reveillark or sun titan + saffi ericsdotter) and it only cost one mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac View Post
    I've goldfished with Doomsday decks about twenty times and I still haven't won a game yet.

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by Dia_Bot View Post
    Have you tried Carrion Feeder? I know multiplayer EDH is a different breed from (French) 1 vs 1, but in my french karador EDH he's a total house.
    Basicly it's very easy to get him to infinite proporations (f.i. reveillark or Karmic guide + saffi ericsdotter, karmic guide + reveillark or sun titan + saffi ericsdotter) and it only cost one mana.
    Carrion Feeder is a good suggestion actually. I don't know why I always forget about that card. I'm not sure how relevant the interaction with the Reveillark loop will be since I rarely find myself attacking in the early/mid game, but it's nice to have it as an option. I'll definitely give it a shot.

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    What about Phyrexian Altar?

    I found it to be better than Ashnod's Altar, because it generates colored mana, which - for me- outweighs the fact that it only produces one mana instead of two.
    I had a couple of situations where Phyrexian Altar was pretty useful in generating colored mana, where Ashnod's Altar whouldn't have done the job.

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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Quote Originally Posted by xterminans View Post
    What about Phyrexian Altar?

    I found it to be better than Ashnod's Altar, because it generates colored mana, which - for me- outweighs the fact that it only produces one mana instead of two.
    I had a couple of situations where Phyrexian Altar was pretty useful in generating colored mana, where Ashnod's Altar whouldn't have done the job.
    I can think of a couple situations where colored vs. colorless mana was relevant, but Altar is mostly here to prevent tuck and/or exile effects rather than to provide some sort of ramp or mana fixing.

    That said, I actually put this deck down a little while ago - my playgroup was getting tired of seeing it, and winning with Mike + Trike all the time was getting more than a little stale for me. Maybe some day I'll resurrect it without the combo or something, as Karador is a pretty solid general.

  20. #20
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    Re: [EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Is this a 1v1 list? I note a strong lack of world-go-booms; no Wrath no Damnation, just O-Stone and kind of Elesh. In just about any list I've played it in, Merciless Eviction has been really solid.
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