[Deck] RUG Lands

[Phelix]

in the case of having MB smokestack + worm harvest,

1. When they already won, i cant win
2. my wincondition is bad because they have counterspells
3. I dont liket the fact that we dont have alot of spells since they have alot of counterspells

Thats how i saw it.

Not sure how to start responding. alot of wrongness and I dont want to come across as more of a dick than I generally do.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

As omni and not storm combo has become the feared combodeck, I just dont feel like i get the mileage i need out of my white cards. And the chalices that are bad against omni (yes they hit a bunch of stuff, but doesnt prevent wins) are good against miracles. (topdeck miracles is a horrible deck). Thats why i swapped. Choke works for both matchups, and paired with rishadan port is very strong.

I have never played pyroblasts. Im not sure countermagic vs the countermagicdeck is the way to go, particularly when you are looking to stick a chalice 1.

Yeah the pyros have only been nice because they were completely unexpected by the opponent out of Lands. One of the game wins against omni they just rushed to cast show and tell and I got to do the fun play of put in canonist and then blast omniscience without any resistance. They have done enough to at least keep me interested in testing them a bit but I can definitely see additional chalices just being way better in general.

EDIT: I've been really shy about running choke in blue builds but I might give that a shot as well since it is so nice against both miracles and omni.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

in the case of having MB smokestack + worm harvest,

1. Worm harvest doesn't race a end step entreat that well. On paper it doesn't make sense to pay 5 Mana, open urself into a counterspell deck, and hoping Ur draws will outlast their card selection from top, ponder and brainstorm
2. Once game 1 they saw Ur worm harvest, they won't side out force of will against u
3. I dislike the fact whereby we are playing a land centric deck with very few spells. So, other than life from the loam, they will just counter whichever spell we play. I can't reliably cast smokestack without being countered. (Turn 4 they'll usually have 2-4 untap lands with top)

Here's my take point by point.

1. Worm harvest is not about racing entreat at all but rather a consistent source of pressure that they have to counter or terminus every turn for the rest of the game. It just gets dumped into the yard at some point and then they have to start dealing with it.
2. Sounds good to me, force of will my worm harvest all you like (smokestack too because of academy ruins).
3. Like the previous point, both stack and harvest can be recurred so you should eventually be able to force whatever you are trying to cast through (unless they can CB it obviously). If they do have you CB locked off of the expensive stuff you can usually find openings for loam and punishing fire to do their thing. Keep in mind that you are porting them down and trying to cast punishing fire and all of the other normal lands plays that they also have to interact with.

Please correct me if I'm way off Phelix.

[Dosferra]

in the case of having MB smokestack + worm harvest,

1. Worm harvest doesn't race a end step entreat that well. On paper it doesn't make sense to pay 5 Mana, open urself into a counterspell deck, and hoping Ur draws will outlast their card selection from top, ponder and brainstorm
2. Once game 1 they saw Ur worm harvest, they won't side out force of will against u
3. I dislike the fact whereby we are playing a land centric deck with very few spells. So, other than life from the loam, they will just counter whichever spell we play. I can't reliably cast smokestack without being countered. (Turn 4 they'll usually have 2-4 untap lands with top)

From my own experience vs. Miracles, I find that game 1 is always favoured for RUG Lands no matter what build you bring, simply because of EE+ruins, it trumps everything they can do (CB, Jace, Angels). Worm Harvest would make it very favoured, they need to either Entreat asap or have CounterTop+floating FoW.
A resolved Intuition is about the equivalent or better than them going T1 Top, T2 CB, T4 Jace.
They have a real problem with a resolved Crucible in conjunction with GQ or the combo as well.

Post board is anything between still favoured to very unfavoured, depending on the amount of RIPs and Blood Moons they bring in.

Of course if they actually counter everything you do and then (a big) Entreat, well I guess there is not so much you can do about that, but that’s not how the majority of games play out.

[Anen]

Bro. Still waiting for Ur 12 creature sideboard list BTW

4 Dark confidant
3 Thalia
3 Canonist
2 Priest
3 Grip

From my own experience vs. Miracles, I find that game 1 is always favoured for RUG Lands no matter what build you bring, simply because of EE+ruins, it trumps everything they can do (CB, Jace, Angels).

I can't agree more.

[nolink]

Thats how i saw it.

Not sure how to start responding. alot of wrongness and I dont want to come across as more of a dick than I generally do.

Noted.

Well I'm always overworried in miracles matchup

Perhaps will try in conjunction with boseju

[nolink]

From my own experience vs. Miracles, I find that game 1 is always favoured for RUG Lands no matter what build you bring, simply because of EE+ruins, it trumps everything they can do (CB, Jace, Angels). Worm Harvest would make it very favoured, they need to either Entreat asap or have CounterTop+floating FoW.
A resolved Intuition is about the equivalent or better than them going T1 Top, T2 CB, T4 Jace.
They have a real problem with a resolved Crucible in conjunction with GQ or the combo as well.

Post board is anything between still favoured to very unfavoured, depending on the amount of RIPs and Blood Moons they bring in.

Of course if they actually counter everything you do and then (a big) Entreat, well I guess there is not so much you can do about that, but that’s not how the majority of games play out.

Unfortunately for me that's how alot of my games go. I'm playing against most of the 4 ponder miracles built.

[nolink]

4 Dark confidant
3 Thalia
3 Canonist
2 Priest
3 Grip




I can't agree more.

With or without bojuka bog in main? just curious if zero graveyard hate works on case by case basis in different meta.

[Phelix]

Post board is anything between still favoured to very unfavoured, depending on the amount of RIPs and Blood Moons they bring in.

This depends so much on your build. And as you say theirs. I often mistakenly assume that everyone is playing the latest miracle list ;)

I expect a maximum of 1 Rip, and 0-1 moons.

Further, running my build gives so many haymakers and lets us play well without the yard. The important thing to realize is that they very much are the beatdown after boarding, as they should be boarding out several swords to plowshares and all terminus. while bringing in cliques to go on the beatdown.
*

Im favored pre and post board in either case

[Phelix]

Unfortunately for me that's how alot of my games go. I'm playing against most of the 4 ponder miracles built.

cmon. math is pretty clear, we are fine here. if you lose more games than you win, it isnt the deck

[Anen]

With or without bojuka bog in main? just curious if zero graveyard hate works on case by case basis in different meta.

With.

[snorlaxcom]

Noted.

Well I'm always overworried in miracles matchup

Perhaps will try in conjunction with boseju

Seems fine powering out wormharvest after you had mulitple loams countered. If you run urborg then you can ignore lifeloss, but you shouldn't be that tight on mana to have to keep paying 2 life otherwise.

[nolink]

cmon. math is pretty clear, we are fine here. if you lose more games than you win, it isnt the deck

Plain unlucky then. Sometimes just don't get what I need to draw against matchups like miracles. My built wasn't consistent enough.

[nolink]

Seems fine powering out wormharvest after you had mulitple loams countered. If you run urborg then you can ignore lifeloss, but you shouldn't be that tight on mana to have to keep paying 2 life otherwise.

not playing black for the moment. Only have riftstone portal

[Phelix]

if you are not playing black, then frankly you are playing a suboptimal build, and losing the matchup could be down to just that, a worse matchup than the one im hinting to.

the way you play in the matchup is also critical.

[FatPow2]

Hey y'all so, I've never wastelanded anyone and I've never loamed before... but I have played against lands a lot and I've watched people stream lands.

I've got an idea/question:

Lands seems to dominate many fair matchups, but flop against combo decks. Why not even the maindeck out to be slightly worse against fair decks but much better against combo decks?
I was thinking to add in a GSZ package: 4 GSZ, 1 Azusa, 1-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3-4 Sylvan Safekeeper. The safekeeper even prevents Teeg from being Karakas'd, imagine the frustration of the miracles players. This would play along a dark depths win package, since the marit lage will be protected as well.

[Anen]

Hey y'all so, I've never wastelanded anyone and I've never loamed before... but I have played against lands a lot and I've watched people stream lands.

I've got an idea/question:

Lands seems to dominate many fair matchups, but flop against combo decks. Why not even the maindeck out to be slightly worse against fair decks but much better against combo decks?
I was thinking to add in a GSZ package: 4 GSZ, 1 Azusa, 1-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3-4 Sylvan Safekeeper. The safekeeper even prevents Teeg from being Karakas'd, imagine the frustration of the miracles players. This would play along a dark depths win package, since the marit lage will be protected as well.

Sounds good, in a whole different deck. You can't recur creatures with loam and the point of this deck is to blank removal, at least g1. Safekeeper would do that, but he has a really low impact of the battlefield by itself and he's only good in very conditional situations.
Marit Lage is already well protected by Indestructible + Wasteland/Port.

[Ancestral]

well i look a bit in this thread and you seem belive that miracles matchup is good for lands...really ? i played lands a few months before on and off, but overall i play miracles for over 3 years, and i found that the matchup is pretty good for miracles, hard to mess with miracles mana, and counterbalance completly destroy us.

i have a great will to play lands agains, becuase, its the deck i have most fun with for sure, but in meta wich top decks are miracles and omni tell, i found lands pretty week now. any ideas to fight this 2 matchups ?

[snorlaxcom]

well i look a bit in this thread and you seem belive that miracles matchup is good for lands...really ? i played lands a few months before on and off, but overall i play miracles for over 3 years, and i found that the matchup is pretty good for miracles, hard to mess with miracles mana, and counterbalance completly destroy us.

^ You probably need to be more proficient with lands if you think that way. The matchup is very tight and small mistakes can compound. The mu demands the most practice from muligans, sb plans, playing without a fastbond in play, etc. We draw dead lands, but they also draw lots of blanks.

i have a great will to play lands agains, becuase, its the deck i have most fun with for sure, but in meta wich top decks are miracles and omni tell, i found lands pretty week now. any ideas to fight this 2 matchups ?

If your meta is miracles then md Crucible(allows marit lage without ever resolving a spell and ghost quarter white sources), 3ee, try a smokestack, and (if you really want to) include Boseiju. You could also up the stage count past two to make more Ports. Each lands player here addresses this mu a bit differently g2/3. What colors do you like to splash? There are effective options in every color, but play style and versatility sway a deck's construction. Conventional card choices are explained in the primer, so read that first.

EE lock miracles off of counterbalance and wincons. Grip tops and RiP. Their creature spells with flash won't kill us. Mana denial throws a big wrench in their plans and they have to hit land drops each turn.

Omni is all about sb taxing effects + port + a clock. However, some don't even address Omni aside from dodging it. You could go balls to the walls and jam more combo pieces to swing for 20, but you might as well play RG at that point. Every major event I side tranny sphere in and it gets me the w.

[Ancestral]

^ You probably need to be more proficient with lands if you think that way. The matchup is very tight and small mistakes can compound. The mu demands the most practice from muligans, sb plans, playing without a fastbond in play, etc. We draw dead lands, but they also draw lots of blanks.



If your meta is miracles then md Crucible(allows marit lage without ever resolving a spell and ghost quarter white sources), 3ee, try a smokestack, and (if you really want to) include Boseiju. You could also up the stage count past two to make more Ports. Each lands player here addresses this mu a bit differently g2/3. What colors do you like to splash? There are effective options in every color, but play style and versatility sway a deck's construction. Conventional card choices are explained in the primer, so read that first.

EE lock miracles off of counterbalance and wincons. Grip tops and RiP. Their creature spells with flash won't kill us. Mana denial throws a big wrench in their plans and they have to hit land drops each turn.

Omni is all about sb taxing effects + port + a clock. However, some don't even address Omni aside from dodging it. You could go balls to the walls and jam more combo pieces to swing for 20, but you might as well play RG at that point. Every major event I side tranny sphere in and it gets me the w.

well instead of this withe splash ( i ll let it in the post because i think its viable ) you can play the normal RUGb with tarpit, urborg, ravens crime and add slaughter games to sideboard, what you guys think ? mess with their mana, tehn tak out their win cons, i think it could be pretty good

well that can be a factor for sure! to stop combo i like more the white splash for hatebears since they disrupt and also can provide a clock wich is the most important situation