Haha, that goldfish list is my 75 from Eternal Clash in January.Originally Posted by cchalc
"Brainstorm and Fetchlands are interesting although I don't know if Brainstorms alone are worth it right now, because Stifle is a common card. " -Peddi 2015.
also i just recently broke a personal best and went 1-4 with control lands.
I didnt get a trophy.
"Brainstorm and Fetchlands are interesting although I don't know if Brainstorms alone are worth it right now, because Stifle is a common card. " -Peddi 2015.
Did you not expect that much Omni and passed on the heavy hate?
Well, Phelix your list was absolutely what I based mine off of. Haha. Ever since we played at SCG Richmond last year, I wanted to rebuild it. I won't ever have it as pretty as yours, but hey.
Also, what is that site?
It's a site that aggregates winning decklists from mtgo daily events. I didn't think they tracked paper events but it looks like they are starting to now as well.
EDIT: the meta section is my favorite part, very nice to browse http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online
I played a trial the day before and saw almost no combo, there might have been one 1 ANT, 1 Omni in a sea of midrange and miracles.
I then faced omni twice, mono red painter once.
I didnt drop since all points carry to the end of the season, but after losing round 5 to omni i was fed up ;)
Played vintage in two events and cashed both.
My hate for omni is always limited, but for this event i cut two of the spheres for krosan grips (that ofc come in vs omni). I think i boarded something like: 2 Spheres, 2 chalices, 2 Krosan Grip, 1 Smokestack, 4 Dark Confidant.
The stack might seem odd, but with another piece of hate its a longshot way of getting there.
"Brainstorm and Fetchlands are interesting although I don't know if Brainstorms alone are worth it right now, because Stifle is a common card. " -Peddi 2015.
Maindeck Smokestack was awesome for me in Kyoto this weekend. It adds so much to G1 of the Miracles matchup. Considering how long G1 usually goes, it can be the deciding game. It also served me in the slower creature matchups. Opponents were surprised to face an artifact their Abrupt Decays couldn't hit and several people scooped along the highway to zero perms.
Any Lands players make day 2?
EDIT: There was at least one Lands player who made day 2; a friend of mine faced him in rd 15.
As predicted, there was a ton of Omni, Miracles, and red-based Delver. MUD also had a noticeable presence.
GP Kyoto Tournament Report April 17-19, 2015
Leading up to the event I was worried about my OmniTell matchup. After testing more and discussing the board plan, in the end I decided not to overload on Omni hate since even if I devoted my full sideboard, it would still be a tough match-up. Instead I decided to focus on winning the creature and Miracles matchups and pray to dodge Omni. Slaughter Games was too unreliable as a singleton Gamble target so I cut it completely.
Land (33)
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Forest
2x Taiga
2x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
3x Green Fetch
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Maze of Ith
2x Thespian's Stage
2x Dark Depths
1x Academy Ruins
1x Tolaria West
1x Bojuka Bog
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Glacial Chasm
Non-Land (28)
3x Crop Rotation
3x Gamble
3x Intuition
4x Mox Diamond
3x Life from the Loam
4x Exploration
3x Punishing Fire
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Zuran Orb
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Smokestack
Sideboard (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Krosan Grip
2x Trinisphere
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Chalice of the Void
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Karakas
1x Pyroclasm
1x Toxic Deluge
My notes are sparse so most of this is from my unreliable memory. I apologize in advance to my opponents if I’ve gotten things wrong.
Rd. 1 vs. GW Armageddon 1-2
G1: He had me thinking he was Bant-Blade or maybe Maverick, and then blew me out by casting two of his four maindeck Armageddon.
G2: Quick 20/20 win.
G3: Questionable keep of P. Fire, P. Fire, Exploration, Trop, Bayou, Waste, Depths. I never found a red source or a Crop Rotation and died to Mom+Squib Ranger beatdown for 2 per turn from 20. At some key point he found his singleton Armageddon (having sided out three of them) and also wiped my yard ensuring I couldn’t come back.
0-1 in rounds
Rd. 2 vs. Junk Blade 1-0
G1: I stabilized at 7 life with Tabernacle, Loam+Waste, Ports, Mazes. There was enough mana to Loam and Tolaria West each turn as needed for the win.
G2: Smokestack left him at 0 perms as extra turns concluded.
1-1 in rounds
Rd. 3 vs. Miracles 1-0
G1: This was one of those 45-minute game 1s that we have against Miracles. Thanks to your advice after my GPT loss last month I went in with a clearer plan, aimed for Academy and EE early, and then dredged into Smokestack soon after. My opponent went for two separate but small waves of angel tokens to try to steal a quick victory while exhausting all 4 Force of Wills in keeping EE and Smokestack off the board to buy time. Maze and Punishing Fire fought off the angels. He spent all of his resources preventing Smokestack, including eventually his last 3-drop: Council’s Judgment. This meant I was free to resolve EE, Intuition, and Crucible to Ghost Quarter with double Exploration. He scooped the turn before I could finish off his permanents.
2-1 in rounds
Rd. 4 vs. UWr Delver 2-0
G1: His start is so slow that I put him on either Miracles with a terrible keep or UW midrange control. Suddenly he fetches Volcanic and Bolts me. I have Punishing Fire for his late Delver, and soon Waste-Lock him and make a 20/20.
G2: TNN goes on the solo beatdown, except that I soon establish Chasm with Zuran Orb. He can’t deal with it and finally scoops in frustration.
3-1 in rounds
Rd. 5 vs. BW Blade + heavy discard 1-2
G1: I have the stone cold nuts, and even after he strips my Intuition with a T1 Thoughtseize, it’s never close. His board is soon down to his 3 basics vs. my triple Port, Waste-lock with Exploration, and then some. He scoops with 35 mins remaining.
G2: I deal with his T1 Deathrite. Then his Hymn hits both of my relevant cards in hand, he Wastes my Mazes, and my deck completely craps out for the remainder. I die to Hero of Bladehold and Lingering Souls.
G3: I mull and keep a mediocre 6 as I’m slightly rattled after the horror show from the previous game. His T1 DRS and Aven Mindcensor carrying a Sword end me early enough that I can have a sandwich.
3-2 in rounds
Rd. 6 vs. Merfolk 0-2
G1: I keep a mana denial and exploration hand with a Maze as protection and a Grove in case I hit Punishing Fire or Gamble. I’m soon triple Porting with Wasteland backup, yet none of it matters since he’s played T1 Island→ Vial and has a free army of Lords.
G2: I have a strong start except he has the T1 Vial again. Then he casts Back to Basics, leaving me with a Forest, a Mox, Loam, and 6 tapped lands. Chasm buys me time and I eventually kill the BtB but he immediately resolves a second one and wipes my graveyard with Tormod's Crypt. My Chasm play is sloppy and I miss a trigger and need to sacrifice it, allowing a big swing, and putting me to two life. I’ve resolved a second Exploration, and I’ve been building up untapped lands. I find myself in a position where I can Loam back Depths, Chasm, and Stage, play all three and then later make Marit Lage to go for the win. He taps five islands and shows me the Force which he had just top decked and Loam goes to the graveyard without resolving.
3-3 in rounds
Rd. 7 vs. 12-Post with black for discard and Beseech the Queen. 2-0
G1: Waste-lock and Ports FTW
G2: Smokestack and Waste FTW
My opponent was a good sport about this and we shared some laughs.
4-3 in rounds
Rd. 8 vs. Miracles 1-1-1
G1: Smokestack absolutely crushes him. This is the quickest win I’ve ever had vs. Miracles that didn’t involve Marit Lage.
G2: He has the Council’s Judgment for Smokestack, counters a relevant spell or two, RIP kills my yard, and he then beats down with a single angel. I draw fetches, duals, Moxen, and Explorations for 5 turns.
G3: He has early counter-top, but then casts Blood Moon and hurts himself more than me – his only basic is a mountain – and I have a Mox in play. Smokestack resolves and eats his entire board. I would have kept it at 1 counter and essentially locked him out, except we’re going to extra turns and I need to put in on 2 counters to speed up the process of getting Blood Moon off the table. I’m not able to combo-kill him in the extras and the match ends as a draw. I don’t see any way he could have won if there had been enough time to finish the match, but he didn’t want to concede – he really wanted the draw. He then immediately dropped.
4-3-1 in rounds
Rd. 9 vs. Dark Maverick 1-0
G1: He plays GSZ for Dryad Arbor, but I Gamble for Punishing Fire to go with my Grove and flame away multiple DRS, Qasali Pridemages, and Thalia. He builds up enough mana to GSZ for Ooze and wipe my yard. We’re exhausted from the long day and having a laugh, and I forget to return Punishing Fire to hand before GSZ resolves. Ooze eats it and soon my graveyard is barren. I realize I’ve screwed up and take a crack at ending it immediately by going for Marit Lage – his one card is Swords to Plowshares. 36 life with Chasm+Stage buy me several turns until I can torch Teeg, Tolaria West for EE, kill Ooze and Thalia, and finally Tabernacle-Waste-Wrath the rest of his board, including a massive Knight of the Reliquary with Squib Ranger untap tricks. All four of his Wastelands were already expended. I nearly scooped after the Ooze and Teeg landed as I just couldn't think any longer. I'm glad I didn't.
5-3-1 in rounds
I had hoped to do better. Still, it reflects where I’m at with the deck. I’ve practiced Delver, Miracles, and Elves matchups a lot. My inexperience with other matchups showed, namely Merfolk.
The Good: Getting a rare weekend away with friends and forgetting real life. Meeting people who I only knew before from this message board. Dodging Omni. Judges handling things in multiple languages like pros. Not becoming exhausted until round 9. Not tilting after losing to Armageddon in round 1. Placing soot counters on Smokestack.
The Bad: Judges not issuing warnings to players who refuse to randomize their deck—if they can get away with it at the GP level, what incentive do they have to change? My own poor keeps. Horrific side event prize support. Thieves stealing deck boxes.
Last edited by Sockosensei; 04-20-2015 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Added tournament report; fixed rd. 6.
Was your board as helpful in as many mu? Some one-ofs and taxing effects seems obscure and not as cohesive for boarded games.
Hand does nothing, so ship it. On the draw you can mulligan more aggressively on the first two hands for ca engines/sb hate, but after that I just look for mana and a spell. However, I would have kept if it was a similar 5 card hand. When dealing with non-force of will decks without discard, digging for singular hate and some business can handle the job.
Glad this worked out.
These n00b strategies are perfect for Lands. Pfire loop controls the board while you hit land drops, so keep a hand that gets a pfire going. Tabernacle/Mazes buy lots of time vs their slow clock, but drs should never be active here. Mu sounds more like luck went his way two games in a row rather than you fouling up somewhere.
Don't know if you practiced much before for this mu, but bring in all naturalize effects to make mana denial an actual thing and to answer their sb. We prioritize their 3 drops, so plant a EE@3. If they Needle EE, then slow roll the kgrip/decay for Needle.
Council's Judgement's casting cost makes our mana denial live. Be sure to keep them off casting it as it can win them the game if resolved on a lock piece. Bearing in mind Jace is the first priority to keep off of the board, he does little to interact with an in-play lock piece. I am used to seeing 1 md or at least in the 75. Pairs well with snapcaster in some versions, too. Don't know what game ate the clock, but that is a real issue in this mu as you can tell by now.
Like I had in my first gp, you were gifted with very winnable matchups that were primed for Lands. I had little experience my first gp and went 5-0-4. Make day 2 the second time out!
All good points. Thanks, Snorlaxcom.
Re: round 8 tie vs Miracles:
We had a judge call in G1 which took about 8 mins as my opponent altered the board state (fetched and shuffled, changing the top three cards for Counterbalance) right in the middle of the judges resolving the issue. We were given 3 mins of additional time.
G2 I kept a Smokestack hand and went for it immediately rather than allowing him to set up CB-Top first. He had the Council's Judgment in hand and played it before I could do any Porting. I don't know if this was correct, but I wanted to force him to have it. He did.
The organizers were quick to begin each round. Even getting to my seat immediately and handling all shuffling as quickly as possible, most of my rounds actually began at the 48 minute mark. I had pile-sleeve checking and de-sideboarding done in advance. I'm not sure what else to do here.
Re: round 5 loss to BW Blade
I agree it did feel that way. It surprised me that he left in all of his discard post-board, but it worked out well for him.
Re: round 6 loss to Merfolk
I don't have much experience in the matchup at all. My friends don't play the deck and I rarely face it at events. When I have faced it in the past, I've been able to Chasm-lock until I could dig for the win. This was my first time facing Back to Basics and it blew me out. Even still, if I hadn't been sloppy with the Chasm trigger, I probably would have won game 2 as I was set to make a 20/20 and my opponent was playing from the top of his deck.
As for the sideboard, I was reasonably happy with it. Toxic Deluge and Pyroclasm were solid. Karakas was never needed. I also had the Gambles to find hate pieces. Omni's just huge here now and I'll probably run Canonists moving forward.
I agree that the matchups were mostly favorable. I wasn't able to take advantage. With more practice, next GP I will be ready.
I split the top 4 of a smaller local Mox tournament today, got 1/4 of a Pearl and $90 store credit. My list
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Exploration
4 Life From the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
2 Manabond
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
3 G Fetch
3 Dark Depths
2 Taiga
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tabernacle
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
SB
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
1 Chalice
1 Seismic Assault
1 Primeval Titan
1 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb
A rather brief report as I took no notes:
Round 1: LOSS vs. Miracles
We had a very long g1 and he was able to finally establish Countertop + Jace with about 10 minutes left in the round. He answered 5 Marit Lage tokens this game, and in the following game I wasn't able to combo him before running out of time.
Round 2: WIN vs. Miracles
He made several mistakes throughout the match, and my draws were excellent. Choke + Port did it's thing post-board.
Round 3: WIN vs. Death & Taxes
Game 1 I establish Tabernacle + Grove/Fire, and although he gets me down to 9 I have 2 Mazes for his Serra Avengers and eventually grind him out. Game 2 he makes a sequencing error: he has Mangara + Wasteland, I have a pile of lands that include Stage/Depths and Wasteland. He opts to Mangara my DD instead of wasting it, and in response I waste his waste and combo him.
Round 4: DRAW vs. Miracles
We have a 40-minute game 1 in which neither player is clearly ahead. Extremely late into the game she assemble Sword/Thopter with Countertop backup, and I scoop with 10 minutes on the clock. Game 2 I keep a hand of 2x Grip, Depths, Mox, Choke, random lands. My first and second draws are Grips 3 and 4, and in the first 5 or 6 turns I Grip 3 tops and a Counterbalance. I Establish Choke + Port, and am able to protect a Marit Lage in turns.
Round 5: WIN vs. Miracles
At least I'm getting used to the matchup by now. I call it Miracles, but it was much worse for me as he is playing MD RiP + Energy Field combo. Game 1 is long, and eventually he locks me out of Loams and Tutors for the combo. Games 2 & 3 Choke + Port win again.
Top 8: WIN vs. Elves
Game 1 I keep a decent hand with 2x Grove and a Crop Rotation, and my first draw is Punishing Fire. Game 2 he gets DRS and Scavenging Ooze into play and is aggressively attacking my graveyard. At some point I crop rotate into the combo. I kept an extremely loose hand this game, interested in thoughts on it:
On the Draw, I kept:
3x Mox Diamond
Ghost Quarter
Loam
Punishing Fire
Crop Rotation
My first draw is a land, and I proceed to go nuts.
TOP 4: ID
At this point, the top 4 is myself, 2 miracles players (round 1 & round 4 opponents), and a storm player. I propose a prize split, and after some negotiation as to how to split the Mox, we each leave with our prize.
A couple thoughts on the list:
* I think not having both Bog and Karakas main in an open field is a mistake when you're running 8 tutors.
* Having both Seismic and Primeval felt unnecessary, I'd rather cut one for something else.
* I've seen a few people running Smokestack and Worm Harvest, which sounds like something I want to do if I keep playing in such a Miracles-infested meta.
* I don't happen to have a 4th Depths for the board, but I'm not sure I'd even want it.
* 2 Choke felt excellent. Obviously I played against miracles all day, but it was instrumental in defeating them.
* Would a board with Bobs + Rabblemasters be lunacy?
You want this thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...G-Combo-Lands/.
Good report though. A lot of your thoughts at the end are things that are often a part of RUGx lands like Bob in the board and smokestack and worm harvest to tilt the Miracles match in Lands favor. It's worth trying a list from this thread if you have the cards.
Having 34/53(52) outs for 2 draw steps are fine odds to me, but I've had many games where I didn't rip a land as well as our very own OneBigSquirrelGod vs Caleb Durward for the finals of an SCG Open. You do have g3 on the play to fall back on, so you can be a bit more ambitious with your starting hands if you won g1.
Vs Miracles it could be fine since you played it 4 times in one event.
The link above me or in the first post will take you to the RG thread if you want more specific options.
Hi all~
I'm surprised that there are others managing to play @ GP Kyoto 2015 this time round. I almost couldn't get a ticket for the event.
Also a control lands player here And here is my list:
Lands (43)
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
4 grove of burnwillows
3 maze of ith
3 tranquil thicket
1 misty rainforest
1 wooded foothills
1 verdent catacombs
2 tropical island
2 taiga
1 Forest
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 glacial chasm
4 thespian stage
3 dark depths
3 tolaria west
1 riftstone portal
1 ghost quarter
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
Other spells (22)
4 exploration
4 Mox diamond
4 life from the loam
4 crop rotation
1 chalice of the void
1 sensei's divining top
1 engineered explosives
3 punishing fire
Sideboard (15)
1 tormod's crypt
1 zuran orb
3 chalice of the void
2 pithing needle
1 trinisphere
4 krosan grip
1 crucible of World's
1 batterskull
Kyoto is really a wonderful place to play magic, rich culture and good peaceful environment to enjoy the spring season weather
Gladly I had 2 round byes to slowly crawl out of bed and start the player's meeting @ 1130am
3rd round (2-0 byes) - opponent UR delver
G1 - I led with a god hand at turn 3 Lage.
G2 - opponent led with 2 swiftspears and a barrage of permission + burns. Nuff said.
G3 - opponent kept a 1 land hand and started with turn 1 delver, which flipped the very next upkeep. I led with quite an impressive 1st turn Mox + exploration + loam hand But without combo pieces to finish off. luckily opponent brainstorm, ponder + shuffle, brainstorm, and find no lands. He casted another delver, which revealed a price of progress. After turns of dredging I finally found the combo pieces I need, lay the lands and have enough Mana to marit Lage end step. My opponent on his turn move on to discard phase and go to discard. I said OK but wanted to stop him thereafter but was late. It resulted in a judge call. ended up I succumbed to my scrub mistake and might be killed by a price of progress. Luckily opponent didn't peel. =O
End of round 3 - (3-0)
4th round (3-0) - merfolk
G1 - turn 4 lageee
G2 - turn 3 lageee
5th round (4-0) - BUG delver
G1 - me decimating his Manabase. He did really little.
G2 - turn 1 DRS. Turn 2 2 DRS. I'm so dead.
G3 - same thing as game 2
6th round (4-1) - Jund
Couldn't remember much but close game of 3 with me winning at 2-1
7th round (5-1) - forgot the matchup but won
8th round (6-1) - show and tell
G1 - played a 28min game with my opponent judge calling me graveyard order manipulation (he's a scumbag. I didn't appeal for the judge call) won with lage with 1 warning.
G2 - he kept a turn 2 show and tell emrakul hand.
G3 - I kept a controllish hand with lots of Mana denial and tapped down him for a lot of turns. He still end up getting 3 Mana untap at main phase for show and tell.
9th round (6-2) - show and tell + countertop hybrid
G1 - I got a quick win (still took 20mins) as my opponent kept topping but found nothing.
G2 - I got 1st turn surgical dark depths after I discard with Mox diamond and wanting to cast life from the loam and recur it =/
G3 - a stalemate of him having no countertop and no show and tell wins, only backed with cunning wish trickbind and karakas. I can recur marit Lage multiple times but we are at our last 5 turns. no one budge and we ended up drawing the game =/
End of 9th round (6-2-1)
any legacy Gp in japan should be a good one as I'm really impressed by their organisation efforts, efficiency in firing off super Sunday series, side events of all formats, and the amount of people playing legacy in japan is able to support such size of events. (I came from Singapore, which only have a legacy attendance of around 15-20 on weekly events.
Narrowly missed day 2, but had a good time touring Kyoto on day 2. =)
And yes. 65 card mainboard list works.
I am more suprised by the lack of tutors in your list, and the untutorable 1-of MD Sensei Top/SB 3S.
Can you write more about this? :)
1. Lack of tutors - Often i found myself at the backend of being vulnerable to various kinds of counterspells mainboard, which above average players could know how to play against a lands deck - ignore the life from the loam and just counter the tutor. it happened really often for me since the 2010-2012 era where lands deck transformed from a full control RG list to adding blue for academy ruins, intuition, and followed by enlightened tutor. Thus the cut of tutors to strictly 4 crop rotation only and 3 tolaria wests.
2. had been fitting 1x Sensei top since the enlightened tutor build and it does wonders. i replaced 1 thicket with it since then. keeping a mana-free option to save loam helps. and in any case i started with it in a weak hand, i will tend to keep with it too.
3. Sideboard trinisphere is just a suggestion by my friend right before i submit my sideboard. it used to be +3 true name nemesis, -2 pithing needle, -1 trinisphere as additional fodder to feed the terminus from miracles (had really bad matchup records against them preboard and post board).
hope it helps.
i do won a couple of 8-mans side event with the same list too. =)
1. If you play your tutors as an emergency button, they always end up countered. The strategy is to plan in advance and play them while the battlefield is threat less. Moreover with only 4 loams, some games must slip through your hands by missing the named Loam.
2. Opponents will counter Top if they can, the same as tutors. However Top doesn't dig like tutors. I played a couple months with Forbidden Alchemy instead of Intuition and I can assure you that you will lose games because you have a card that digs for 3/4/5 instead of your all deck. I like Top as a complement of Tutors, not as replacement.
3. Miracles is grindy I agree. However I never felt the need of TNN. Nor to devote such specific answers in my SB. Thalia, Batterskull, Geist, Bob, all seems decent vs. Miracles and other MUs. What does TNN brings vs. non-Miracles MU?
1. i dont have the luxury to always have a tapped out opponent without force of will. so i will rather only have 1 CMC tutors. yes i would say without loam it doesnt work that well against some matchups. i will love to try some resilient tutors like tolaria west that could tutor loam. another transmute for 2 could work.
2. surprisingly, i hardly got my top countered after they see a taiga + SDT turn 1. with 4 crop rotation + 3 tolaria west + 3 fetches i have a good chance to shuffle and top. having intuition and the other likes of tutor really does greatly improve the creature based matchups. but aren't the deck already quite well equipped against those?
3. As per stated, they're there to combat opposing planeswalkers (jace2) and overload the removal package. some playtest games end with me casting TNN and beatdown backed by mana denial package.
I am still not sold on TNN in non-Miracles MU. I play a 12+ creatures sideboard, so I know what you mean by overloading the removal package.
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