Feel free to create a primer for the RG version :) According to most of us, the two deck plays different enough to have their own thread. If you don't realize that, you need to play more one of them.Originally Posted by Barsoom
Regardless of top 8 appearances...RG Lands is a combo deck while RUGx Lands is a pure control deck and both and played extremely differently.
RG combo lands?
i am playing BG combo lands but with creatures. LOL. and its fun. below is the list.
//lands (37)
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cabal Pit
2 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
4 Dark Depths
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
//spells (16)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
3 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds
//creature (8)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
Total: 61 cards
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Raven's Crime
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Cabal Pit
That's not true at all. In fact, 90% of a new primer would be exactly the same, where 10% could focus on the differences.
They even play exactly the same cards (or at least the same cards listed in this primers cardlist). If gamble is the keycard which defines the difference between both decks (as I read in the developmental thread from Anen), why is gamble even mentioned in this primer? Same goes for Thespian's Stage ("1-4 copies"), or Dark Depths ("The numbers on these depends on how fast you want to combo kill").
Stating that RUGx is a pure control deck isn't true, since each deck nowadays features at least 1 copy of each combopiece, some splitting Thespian's Stage / Dark Depths up to 3-1, or 2-2, along with some crop rotations. Differences between RUGx and RG lands are exaggerated.
I am not saying both threads shouldn't have a different primer, but if there would be a separated thread for RG, it should be because it deserves its own thread. And not like this, by cutting off an entire group of lands-players and referring to a dead link (don't like it? Write your own primer). That's not a respectful way to treat fellow landsplayers.
Last edited by tewatate; 06-10-2014 at 08:34 AM.
The differences are enough to warrant their own thread. Yes card choices overlap, but they are two completely different decks with diverting goals. Decks with the blue tempo shell of fetches/waste/daze/brainstorm/force/delver/pierce/ponder/git probe can still have great diversity whether monoblue or even 4 color and all deserve their own thread for players interested in those decks.
The last thread was litered with unanswered questions and people not interested in RG. The deck indeed has generated enough interest to be played on the scg open series, so it shouldn't be hard to support its own thread. I started this thread because the op needed an update in the current meta and not because I wanted to introduce another deck. If you are passionate enough about it then start a new thread and I will provide a link in the op.
I have no issues with good arguments why there should be a separate primer, thats what a forum is for.
But youre responsible for this new thread, and you should have foreseen a decent solution if you really dont want RG players posting in a RUGx thread. For example, ask in advance if someone would write another RG-primer, and renew RUGx simultaneously. Acting this way pisses people off, can you blame them?
Did you read the disclaimer? Snorlaxcom just forgot to update the link.
If people are interested in the RG deck, they can post here => http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...RG-Combo-Lands
If people are very interested in the RG deck, they can write an extensive primer for the RG version in order for it to be in the Established section.
People posting here about the RG deck are in the wrong thread, that's all. Canadian's pilots don't post into the BUG Delver thread because they share 30+ cards, do they?
Link in op has Anen's updated link. I will provide a link to RG primers in op if people message me, but nothing more.
This isn't meant to have a feud between the camps. I just have no interest nor insight on RG sequences. Kurt Speiss would ideally be the source for this, but unsure if he even goes on the Source.
I wouldn't worry much about the ravings by someone with three posts--He obviously hasn't bothered to read the old primer/thread anyway, where some of this was put to rest. That being said, there were some great articles on Jund Depths and the RG combolands builds up on Star City Games website, if you care enough to complain here, go look those up for yourself. *teach a man to fish...*
Brewed a slight variant tonight and spliced together some Landstill with Lands.
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Punishing Fire
3 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Forbid
3 Force of Will
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Tolaria West
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Barbarian Ring
61 Cards
SB:
2 Swan Song
1 Negate
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
So the addition of some counterspells and Standstill was intended to trade some of our good match-up points (fair decks) for some game 1 interaction against combo. Standstill has obviously gotten a lot worse with Delver, SFM, Aether Vial and DRS in 80% of decks, but the possibility of t1ing it with Mox Diamond or even resolving it mid-game on a mostly empty board seems okay. I mostly wanted to live the dream of Forbidding someone from playing Magic, and it kind of came true? Being able to still make land drops with Loam while providing food for Forbid was decent, but I imagine if you can spend 5 mana a turn Forbidding you can probably do something similar with Loaming Tolaria West. Brainstorms and Jace were obviously pretty strong; there is low number of fetches, but Loam, Tolaria West and Intuition can kind of act as shuffle effects. I think you only ever want to Brainstorm early for DRS removal anyway; I held my Brainstorms until eot t4-t5 and untapping into Jace felt super good. The 61st card could also probably be shaved (4th Diamond?). It's nice to be somewhat less reliant on the graveyard since you have Jaces and Factories as kills, but it didn't really come up.
The sideboard is a mish-mash of random things I owned that seemed okay. No idea what the proper sideboard should be. There seems to be a lot of disynergy with Chalice and all the 1-mana counters so maybe that should be different. Could also probably make room for Bog and Tabernacle maindeck.
Split top 4 tonight with 16 players. Went:
2-0 Edric Bant (actually got the bye, but my friend's opponent never showed and we durdled two game 1s.
2-1 Edric Bant (got paired against him right after obvs)
He had KotRs in his deck so his graveyard hate consisted of GSZ'ed Scavenging Ooze. He wasn't running DRS so the only card I really cared about from him was his KotR and Jace spent most of his time unsummoning her. Academy Ruin'ed EE and PFire handled most of his deck. Standard Lands fare. I achieved the Forbid lock against him in one super long game, but it was mostly irrelevant since I already had recurring EE and PFire.
0-2 Patriot Delver
I was able to deal with his Stoneforge, Batterskull and Delver normally, but my Intuition pile was a turn too late against his TNN and he had a Force anyway to stop Bridge or EE. In our game 2 I couldn't find a Loam, PFire, Grove, Maze or EE to deal with his Meddling Mage that did 10 damage to me while I held back my REB and Pyroblast. When I finally Blast the Mage and a Delver he plays a TNN with me at 8 life and I can't find anything. I suppose if I was on a normal Lands build I could have attempted Glacial Chasm shenanigans to live.
2-0 Bant Fish
Not Merfolk, but Mother of Runes, SFM, Brainstorm, FoW, TNN, etc. Normal Lands stuff, Wasted him off white and turned his SFM into cantrip squire. He couldn't deal with EE and PFire and I eventually win with Marit Lage and a Jace. Game 2 he keeps a greedy hand 1-Tundra hand with Mom, Etutor and Brainstorm. He whiffs on a land and Brainstorm locks himself and I easily deal with his Tutored Rest in Peace several turns later with a Grip.
2-1 Jund
Game 1 he Thoughtseizes away a Brainstorm (from a 2 Brainstorm, Mox, Bridge, 3 land hand) and I promptly turn 1 Standstill him anyway. We keep Standstill around for a few turns when he eventually breaks it with another Thoughtseize. I draw 3 lands of it and Brainstorm to protect my Bridge and a drawn Crucible but he Decays them both over the next few turns anyway. Maze keeps a Tarmogoyf at bay while I durdle around with Loam. Barbarian Ring takes care of all his non-Goyf creatures and he can't stop me from assembling Marit Lage.
Game 2 I keep a similar game 1 hand after he mulls to 5. The game actually plays out pretty similarly except he has a DRS this time that eats my lands and Loam. I transmute for an EE to kill the DRS but he has a 2nd 6/7 Goyf right after to get around my 1 Maze. I draw my Academy Ruins 1 turn too late to recur EE and die to Goyfs.
Game 3 he Thoughtseizes away my Forbid (I could have potentially Forbid locked him out t2 otherwise) and Extirpates my Loams after I open with Fetch-Mox-Loam. He doesn't have a DRS or some 2 drop after Wasting me with 2 other lands in play so I figured I might be able to live the dream and proceed to Pithing Needle his onboard Verdant Catacombs. He of course draws his Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills and makes me look silly, but an EE takes care of Tarmogoyf and a Fire kills a Bob. I land a Jace and promptly build him up to ultimate for the win. I want to say that the Needle play turned out to be decent, since it stopped him from getting to 4 mana for a potential BBE, but I assembled PFire in the last 2 turns anyway.
In the end Standstill and Factory underperformed, but that may honestly be due to the lack of games. Jace and Brainstorm were awesome, so if this experiment doesn't pan out I can always just jam Jaces back into the more traditional RUG list like the other gentleman in the old thread did.
Top-4'd my local with a pretty traditional RUG list.
4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
2 Crop Rotation
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
3 Intuition
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Maze of Ith
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Tolaria West
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Bukkake Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Tranquil Thicket
Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Smokestack
3 Krosan Grip
Round one I had the bye. Round two I drew with Miracles. I lost game one to a fast counter-top, game went forever and I found my maindeck EE too late. Game two he mulliganned and was short on lands, not a good place to be against this deck. Game three I locked up the game with Crucible, Ruins, and EE although I lacked acceleration. We went to time with me needing 2-3 more turns to pull off the Stage/Depths win through his STP. Round 3 I drew with a R/B Sneak/Reanimator build. I locked him out game one, and then got blown out by double Ashen Rider game 2 (the exile clause on the card is a steaming pile of bullshit). Still almost came back, staying alive with Chasm/Orb shenanigans until I got Blood Mooned. We ended up with only a minute for game 3, needless to say that went to time. I could have won game one much more quickly if I had played my lands in the correct order (got my one-of Stage exiled by Ashen Rider, should have played out a Wasteland first to prevent that). Round 4 I won (!) in three against mono-red Burn. Lost horribly in game one despite Wasting my own lands versus Price of Progress and then locked him out with Crucible/Chasm/Orb/Chalice at one in both games 2 and 3. Chalice is a house in this matchup, but you still need Orb or Chasm to not die to Price. My opponent admitted to not having artifact hate in the board as he was waiting on it to show up in the mail, not sure I could have pulled this off if he had Smash to Smithereens postboard.
Overall the deck performed well, I feel like I could have won both draws if I had played faster/better. I still think the R/G version is probably better positioned because you can just win rather than giving your opponent a chance to rip Moon, Price, Ashen Rider, or other nonsense and break up your lock. Despite that, I will always love prison Lands, locking your opponent out of ever doing anything is just fun in a sadistic kind of way.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
I certainly hope you have an altered copy to make the name fit
R/G a.k.a. best lands is on camera played by Gerry Thompson at the scg invitational. GO LANDS!
Courser of Kruphix makes an appearance. ;)
Went 3-1 last night with the following list (hasn't changed since last post except sb):
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond
2 Crop Rotation
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadon Port
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Dark Confidant
1 Riftstone portal
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Phyrexian Revoker
(P) = on the play
(D) = on the draw
Match 1 - Burn
G1(D): Opponent goes turn 1 basic mountain pass. I kept a hand with Exploration, LftL, Mox Diamond, fetch, and Pfire. I for the most part play my hand and pass the turn. Opponent plays Eidolon who quickly met a Pfire. I transmute out a tolaria west for Zuran Orb. Orb keeps me alive the next few turns (through 1 Price of Progress too) and I can transmute up DD + Stage.
Out: 1x Ensnaring Bridge, 1x Bojuka Bog, 1x Maze of Ith, 1x Tabernalce, Engineered Explosives
In: 2x Chalice, 3x Sphere of Resistance
G2(D): I think I kept a poor hand this game, I can't remember exactly what it was, just that it wasn't fast enough to win. My opponent had me dead turn 4.
G3(P): Turn 1 chalice on 1 (after playing exploration), turn 2 sphere of resistance, turn 3 sphere of resistance, I had 3 rishadon ports in play....My opponent didn't play magic while I durdled for 15 turns finding the combo.
1-0 (2-1)
Match 2 - Mono U OmniTell
G1(D): No idea what my opponent is on, I keep a hand that can pump out a really quick 20/20. I had a fetch land stifled turn 1 which set me back a turn, but I eventually assemble the combo before my opponent plays anything besides a Jace, TMS. I also saw an Ancient Tomb and some Lotus Petals and put him on some sort of Sneak and Show variant.
Out: 1x Tabernacle, 1x Glacial Chasm, 1x Zuran Orb, 1x Manabond, 3x Intuition
In: 2x Revoker, 3x Dark Confidant, 2x Krosan Grip
G2(D): He played a turn 1 emrakul...SnT into Omniscience
Out: 1x Engineered Explosives
In: 1x Ensnaring Bridge
G3(P): I keep a hand with Ensnaring Bridge and Exploration. Exploration got forced turn 1. His turn he plays SnT, I put in Bridge, he puts in Omniscience casting Emrakul. He takes his extra turn and pass. The next 25 minutes was the most grueling game ever. He eventually brought himself down to 2 life with a Griselbrand that joined the party. I was eventually able to get Karakas to stick (he ran out of ghost quarters) bounced his Grisel EoT, bounced Emrakul my turn, swung with a Revoker for 2.
2-0 (4-2)
Match 3 - Reanimator
G1(D): My opponent turn 1 careful studies and pitches Iona. My turn I play exploration, mox, some lands, and Loam and pass. To my surprise, my opponent didn't have the reanimate spell. Next few turns he does nothing but casts cantrips. I am dredging away everything besides lands but eventually get a tolaria west for a bojuka bog and exile his GY. He scooped after I wasted both his duals.
Out: 1x Zuran Orb, 1x Tabernacle, 1x EE, 3x Intuition
In: 1x Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Sphere of Resistance, 2x Revoker
G2(D): My opponent gets a turn 1 Empyreal Archangel, I die 4 turns later not being able to get a Bridge or Chasm.
G3(P): I keep a really strong hand of Bridge, Loam, Mox, Mox, and some lands. My opponent kept a hand with Leyline of the Void...womp womp. Tidespout Tyrant joined his party turn 3 and took the game from there.
2-1 (5-4)
Match 4 - Old Elves (No natural order, but mana dorks and emrakuls)
G1(P): Recurring EE early stopped all his threats.
Out: 1x Bojuka Bog, 3x Intuition, 1x Manabond, 1x Cruicble
In: 1x Ensnaring Bridge, 3x Sphere, 2x Chalice
G2(D): I kept a bad hand. No Pfire, chalice, or Bridges..lost to a turn 4 emrakul.
G3(P): I have EE and PFire recursion. My opponent eventually scoops
3-1 (7-5)
I felt a lot strong this week with the same MB and the slight change made to the SB. I am going to still rework the SB as SCG Worcester is next weekend.
Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions on the desk list and on the reanimator matchup.
Thanks,
Bryan
Also, has anyone done any sort of play testing with Chromatic Lantern for any reason? If so, what were your thoughts on it?
Why would you need Chromatic Lantern and why would you play it over Urborg for example?
Blood MoonWhy would you need Chromatic Lantern and why would you play it over Urborg for example?
Against Lands, Blood Moon doesn't contrain your mana like in UWR, or RUG because basic Forest and Moxen say hi. The problem of Bood Moon is that it fucks abilities of your lands (Maze, Stage, Wasteland, Tabernacle, etc..) and Lantern doesn't solve that. If you really want to produce green under Blood Moon, you can consider Riftstone Portal.
4-0ed modo daily with -traditional build. Note bridge, stax and worms
http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/17077#241742
"Brainstorm and Fetchlands are interesting although I don't know if Brainstorms alone are worth it right now, because Stifle is a common card. " -Peddi 2015.
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