Cty of Brass + Tendrils

[ScatmanX]

I know one can cast Tendrils using City of Brass mana even while they're at 1 life by announcing the spell then paying it's cost.
The deal is I can't find the ruling that allow that to happen. Searched everywhere I know.
If someone could redirect me to a ruling that makes that possibility evident I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.

[H]

I know one can cast Tendrils using City of Brass mana even while they're at 1 life by announcing the spell then paying it's cost.
The deal is I can't find the ruling that allow that to happen. Searched everywhere I know.
If someone could redirect me to a ruling that makes that possibility evident I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.

It isn't a ruling, it is the fundamental rules of the game with some clever use of the stack that allows this to happen (note it only works if your storm count is 1 or higher).

601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before that spell started to be cast (see rule 717, "Handling Illegal Actions"). Announcements and payments can't be altered after they've been made.

601.2a The player announces that he or she is casting the spell. That card (or that copy of a card) moves from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its controller. The spell remains on the stack until it's countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

601.2b If the spell is modal the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.45), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as it's being cast such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs (see rules 117.8 and 117.9), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2e). A player can't apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as it's being cast (such as an {X} in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost he or she intends to pay. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes Phyrexian mana symbols, the player announces whether he or she intends to pay 2 life or the corresponding colored mana cost for each of those symbols. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player's options when making these choices.

601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost), or a particular mode, was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets he or she will choose before he or she announces those targets. The same target can't be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word "target" in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). If any effects say that an object or player must be chosen as a target, the player chooses targets so that he or she obeys the maximum possible number of such effects without violating any rules or effects that say that an object or player can't be chosen as a target. The chosen players, objects, and/or zones each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those players, objects, and/or zones become the target of a spell trigger at this point; they'll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.)
Example: If a spell says "Tap two target creatures," then the same creature can't be chosen twice; the spell requires two different legal targets. A spell that says "Destroy target artifact and target land," however, can target the same artifact land twice because it uses the word "target" in multiple places.

601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division. Each of these targets must receive at least one of whatever is being divided.

601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

601.2f If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, "Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.

601.2g The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can't be paid.
Example: You cast Altar's Reap, which costs {1}{B} and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost {1} less to cast. Because a spell's total cost is "locked in" before payments are actually made, you pay {B}, not {1}{B}, even though you're sacrificing the Familiar.

601.2h Once the steps described in 601.2a-g are completed, the spell becomes cast. Any abilities that trigger when a spell is cast or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell's controller had priority before casting it, he or she gets priority.

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that's not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, "Timing and Priority." The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it's countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

So lets step through how you would do that:

Step 1: Announce Tendrils (601.2a)
Step 2: Target your opponent (601.c)
Step 3: Pay your costs by tapping your City and other mana (601.f/g)
Step 4: The spell is now on the stack, so you have priority and there are now two triggers that need to be placed on the stack. The Tendrils is the first on the stack now (i.e. bottom of the stack). There is the trigger from the City (603.3) and Storm from Tendrils (601.2h). You MUST put City on the stack first then Storm, so that the stack will be: 1. Tendrils, 2. City's trigger, 3. Storm trigger.
Step 5: Stack resolves in reverse order (newest to oldest), so Storm resolves and you drain a bunch from the opponent. Next object is City's trigger, so you take one. Then the original Tendrils resolves.

Hope that was all clear, I just woke up.

[pochy]

http://magiccards.info/query?q=city+...v=card&s=cname
^reading the faq it can be understood you can do it, but it's not very clear for being honest

normally you can respond to that triggered only with istant speed.
But with the fact you are casting tendrils, after casting it (whit it on the stack), you'll have 2 ability that will trigger: city and the storm (considering you have a storm count). So you choose the order for those, having storm resolving first and don't die to auto-damage.

edit: ops, H preceded me :)

[Technics]

http://magiccards.info/query?q=city+...v=card&s=cname
^reading the faq it can be understood you can do it, but it's not very clear for being honest

normally you can respond to that triggered only with istant speed.
But with the fact you are casting tendrils, after casting it (whit it on the stack), you'll have 2 ability that will trigger: city and the storm (considering you have a storm count). So you choose the order for those, having storm resolving first and don't die to auto-damage.

edit: ops, H preceded me :)

A similar interaction worth noting. I'm at 1 life, with 5 cards in hand one of which is firestorm. My opponent is at 3 life. I tap city of brass for mana, put the city trigger on the stack and in response firestorm my opponent for the win. (Works with any instant speed burn spell).

[ScatmanX]

Thanks for the responses. Made it really clear for me.

So if I need to explain it roughly in a simple way to someone, could it be something like:
''While casting the spell no one get priority, so after I announce it both the Storm trigger and the City of Brass trigger will go into the stack, and only resolve after the spell is cast. Since I control both of the triggers, I choose the order that they're put on the stack, choosing first the City one, then the Storm one, ensuring that the Storm one resolves first'' ?

[cdr]

Sounds ok to me. Maybe shorter, "The City trigger happens before the storm trigger, but neither can go on the stack until after the spell is completely cast. Since I control them both, I get to decide the order they go on the stack."

[H]

Thanks for the responses. Made it really clear for me.

So if I need to explain it roughly in a simple way to someone, could it be something like:
''While casting the spell no one get priority, so after I announce it both the Storm trigger and the City of Brass trigger will go into the stack, and only resolve after the spell is cast. Since I control both of the triggers, I choose the order that they're put on the stack, choosing first the City one, then the Storm one, ensuring that the Storm one resolves first'' ?

Yes, I would just make it clear that you are announcing Tendrils, the paying for it with City.