yesterday Nikolas Leaf made third place at ssg. his list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75185 congratulations!
so. i try to play this type of lands too. the most important porblem, that i see- we are very afraid of pithing needle. unfortunately we cant play around it =((( so we have to side in answers on needle against all decks. Thats why we have to side in grips against everybody except storm/ of course we can use ancinet grudge. but it do nothing wit back to basicks, moon and rip
thats why it hought about most flexible removal - abrupt decay. they can help with fast decks. and can destroy needle, rip, moon, counterbalance and so on Yes- this is third color, So i have to change mana base. now i am trying like this:
Lands
4 Stage
2 Depths
3 fetch
1 forest
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
4 grove
1 Urborg
1 Rifstone portal
2 ticket
3 maze
4 wasteland
4 port
1 taber
1 karakas
1 chasm
1 bojuka
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [EX] Manabond
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [US] Gamble
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Dark Depths
SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [M12] Primeval Titan
SB: 4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
i wnat to play 3 ticket, 4 maze, 1 quarter and 4 crop, but cant find places for them
so, what do you think about my list, friends?
byes are for girls!
I like the experimentation, but I'm not sure that Abrupt Decay is worth the splash for us. Abrupt Decay is actually worse against Blood Moon than Krosan Grip, since it requires two colors, which means you'll cast it far less often. I like the idea of Ancient Grudge alot, since it can be dredged (and Ray of Revelation, as in Leaf's list), but mostly likely, neither has enough versatility to make the cut, since our deck has to be able to hit both artifacts and enchantments, no matter what. I do like the idea of adding Urborg (not Riftstone Portal, though, since it is far far more conditional), and if I were too attempt a non-blue build with Engineered Explosives and Buried Ruin, I'd start by adding a Bayou and an Urborg to the deck. A card that I would like to see the most for our deck would be a disenchant effect that works with the graveyard so we can either Gamble OR dredge for it. Maybe that'll be printed right around the corner.Originally Posted by Loxmatii
gigapatrick, I of course agree about moon and decay. But i thinkthat pithing needle- is our main problem. So. We have to side in grips or grudges in every match up. For example
Merfolks. Lets forget about btb. Will you side in grips? only for relicks and maybe crypts? i think no. And if they will side in needles? we cant win =( so. we have to side in grips
second example. Jund. Will you side in grips? i think no. and if they will side in needle?
so. my opinion is that we want to have universal answers. and this answer is only decay
byes are for girls!
Yeah, i don't think pithing needle is our main problem and why don't you think you can win if they do drop a needle? They would have to have two needles and some other way to stop punishing fire from burning there face off to push you off all your win conditions. Also if you won the first game you don't actually need to win the other games as its pretty easy to set up games states where most opponents can't win reasonably.
Also there is no universal answer to pretty much anything in legacy. Decay is not a universal answer as there are cards that decay cannot beat.
One thing to keep in mind is the interaction between Thespian Stage and Pithing Needle, which isn't always a hard lock. If you ever have a free opportunity to use Stage to copy another land you should always do so because it's no longer named Thespian Stage. I often copy my Taigas, Ports, and Forest so that they either have to call those lands with Needle or risk me just dropping a Depths. It's especially fun to copy Forest because it becomes Wasteland-proof too.
That doesn't work. It still maintains its non-basic land super type.
I believe copying a Forest with Thespian Stage turns it into a Basic Forest with the extra Thespian Stage ability.
Just checked a thread on The Source that would seem to disagree with this finding. Check it out yourself if you want to wade through all the legalese.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...and-Basic-Land
I also wanted to add to Loxmatii: advice I received on mtgsalvation IS to always board in some number of K Grips, since any deck can have hate. Even if it is just one K Grip, at least you'll have an out other than the slow burn of GroveFire. Additionally, to continue the analysis of Abrupt Decay--what does it hit that we care about that we can't otherwise deal with? Liliana of the Veil is terrible against us, and we can kill her with Punishing Fire. Fire hits most relevant creatures, and Maze stalls out those that Fire can't deal with. Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm come down to deal with the yet other creatures that neither Maze nor Fire can handle. Furthermore, Abrupt Decay can't deal with Jace, which can be a big issue for us. So that mostly leaves artifacts and enchantments that we care about, which Grip deals with admirably. My major concern isn't that Krosan Grip doesn't have enough versatility; it's that we don't have room to maindeck it. I'd like there to be some type of noncreature-nonland permanent hate that we could use main, but I don't think any card qualifies as of now.
This works fine, you can also copy the forest in response to the wasteland activation to make it fizzle. Thespian's Stage that has become a copy of something else, like a Grove of the Burnwillows, can only be needled by naming Grove of the Burnwillows.
I splash black for two Abrupt Decay's (besides two Krosan Grip). They have handled some troublesome cards like meddling mage, Merfolk lords, ... , but they have also turned up lacking because black is sometimes hard to get. Still, I usually side two of them in against fair decks, to handle any situation as Loxmatii describes. I like the reassuring feeling of having an out to most situations.
EDIT: @ Loxmatii, keep an eye on your green mana sources. I think nothing is worse than mulling a perfect hand with loam and exploration away, because no green manasources. 1 Bayou for abrupt Decay is enough in my opinion, I would be hesitant to cut other green sources for badlands, urborg, ...
ewwww, that's what I thought and got into a pretty spirited argument with a judge about it during an SCG event. Didn't feel like speaking to the head judge for the third time that day :/
I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing abrupt decay, buts its not some universal answer everything a fair deck can through at you, its not going to stop Jace, TNN, Leyline or Sigarda or any other random thing that can through you through a loop. That was the point that I was trying to make. I think if you where going to splash black I would want some other powerful effects like R.Crime, Bob, etc as well.
Well, i'm not 100% sold on abrupt decay, but I always used to hesitate during sideboarding: should I board that Krosan Grip in or not. Often to find out it was useless when boarding in, or missing it very much (or even loosing) when not siding it in. Perhaps this is more about playstyle, but abrupt decay brings me peace of mind during sideboarding. They always go in against fair decks, and when I have black available, they are always usefull, even (often) against something that Punishing fire could handle. Abrupt decay offers me a lot, in my opinion, without taking up extra sideboard slots, since I cut 2 Krosan Grips for them.
Without taking extra slots, ahum, I do splash a single Bayou as an extra 61 card. That's not elegant, and 60 cards are preferable, but I think adding a forest (-> bayou) as a 61 card isn't disturbing, since there are 4 fetches and with bayou 4 fetchable lands (besides 2 yaiga and a forest), and I would only water down my maindeck if it was for an extra green source.
Wouldn't you want Bayou and Urborg for the black splash? I haven't tested it but I would like to think being able to tap Depths and Maze for mana has a ton of utility. Not to mention how sneaky of a Crop Rotation target it would be to players thinking you need one more land drop to combo off. I personally prefer the Lilianna and Smallpox route for black splash, but I understand the appeal of a less straightforward approach to this deck.
Sure, but what to cut? I used to play pox a lot, and am saving for entombs to play Jund Depths as well. But with double black on Liliana and smallpox, Junddepths is black based, where this is primarily G, also R and just a minor splash for black. But if I could add another land it would be Urborg, for the reasons you mention (tapping utility lands for mana).
Having mana from Maze, Depths etc is great, having your opponents being able to tap their fetchlands for mana is not, quid pro quo.
I have no qualms with splashing a third color, but what I don't agree with at all is the Badlands
Although I often find myself in the same situation "should I board in Krosan even though I'm not even sure he has anything of note to board in against me", usually ends up with me boarding just 1 in.
Couldn't have written it better myself. For me this even extends into the first game. When you feel you have your opponent fairly locked down, let's say by a couple of Mazes and Grove/Punishing, Loam Wasteland/Port or Chasm/Loam going on, then I'm in no rush to finish him off, I'd shot him for 1 each turn while cycle loaming drawing more cards and sculpting the hand and board.
This because game2 and game3 will almost certainly be more hard because of hate.
A player knowledge about Lands would scoop, but lot's just keep on playing, putting in x/2 creatures and not doing any progress what so ever.
So hopefully by the time game2 starts, your opponent is stressed by the clock and you just have to defend yourself, which this deck very well.
So if bring hate, like Pithing Needle, I just turtle up and disregard the combo and instead focus on locking them down.
I'm starting to think that RUG Lands might fit me better.. :)
Of course if you lose the first game.. it's quite a different game.
Keep in mind that your opponent exposes his fetches to wasteland this way, where this tapped land could have been a basic land instead.
I have my tabernacle in the mail and I cannot wait to start playing this one in paper. I've been playing it online a bit and it's just so much fun.
Did anyone have success trying to shove confidant/decay into the board? I tried swapping my third taiga for a bayou but did not find space for the urborg and decay in particular was annoying to cast. Bob wasn't so bad to cast though and I've loved him in the intuition version of the deck so I may cut down on the decays and go back to krosan in that spot even though decay is so much better vs the delver decks. Just curious if anyone else had gotten any games in with that kind of board.
I have been experimenting with 2 decay's, but I haven't played it enough to know if i'll stick to the card. There was some discussion some posts above.
It will definitely worsen your play a lot against bloodmoon, and you can't hit troublesome enchantments as Sneakattack, Omniscience or Dream Halls. Also slightly worse against Rest in Peace due to the manacost, and against counterbalance/top I think it's better to kill top, which KG can do but AD cannot
It is more versatile though, as it also hits Deathrite Shaman and Meddling Mage, creatures who can disable our engine, and bigger creatures like Merfolk Lords (shrinking the others to punishable sizes), Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary ... And in the meanwhile remain an answer against randomness like Pithing Needle or Ensnaring Bridge.
I will definitely keep at least two of them in the board since I haven't encountered a single bloodmoon in the last six months, which is definitely the biggest reason to stay with Krosan Grip. I do run 4 fetchlands (I suppose you replaced one with a taiga), because having the black mana available isn't evident.
I don't think carddrawing like bob is necessary, and that it is better to focus on the loamengine for cardadvantage, by protecting loam (thicket, horizon canopy) of destroying RIP and get the engine going again. Or to combo out and win. You'll have some extra sideboardslots to spend on combomatchups that way.
I'm wondering if anyone has tested Choke in this deck. Miracles is among our worst matchups largely due to their high number of basics, which choke stops pretty effectively. Also, Choke turns Rishadan Port into a recurrable Strip Mine for Islands which is pretty sick.
I've seen a list on mtgtop8 with 2 Chokes in the board, and I'm running 2 Chokes at the moment. Haven't faced Miracles in a tournament yet, so take the next bit of info with a grain of salt: In testing against Miracles, Choke seems close to unbeatable. I definitely think it is worth running.
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna try it out at a tournament for dual lands this weekend. It's even decent against decks like ANT and Show and Tell, which is a plus. I'm pretty sure its wrong to board it in against any Delver deck but I'm not actually 100% sure, have you tested it at all in those matchups?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote