RB NivMagus Aggro

[MarineRaider]

Hey guys,

Had a quick thought about a deck that could potentially win on turn 2 and needs some help. Thoughts on the deck and is Dark Ritual Banned in Modern?
Thanks in advance

Creatures
4x NivMagus Elemental
4x Kiln Fiend(secondary)
4X Simian Spirit Guide

Spells
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Assault Strobe
4x Ground Rift
4x Tainted Strike
3x Dismember

[Davran]

Yes, Dark Ritual is banned in modern as it was never printed in a modern legal set. Modern encompasses anything from 8th edition forward that has been printed in an actual set (i.e. not supplemental products like dual decks or commander precons), minus its banlist.

[MarineRaider]

Yes, Dark Ritual is banned in modern as it was never printed in a modern legal set. Modern encompasses anything from 8th edition forward that has been printed in an actual set (i.e. not supplemental products like dual decks or commander precons), minus its banlist.

Thanks for the info--do you have any thoughts on the deck itself?

[cherub_daemon]

It's just semantics, but I'd really consider this more of a combo deck as you've constructed it. Some of these ideas are going to take you closer to aggro.

1. More than anything, I feel like you're going to want more draw. Manamorphose seems good, Remand if you own it.
2. I'd rather run Delver of Secrets than Simian Spirit Guide. You've got all kinds of ways to flip him, and he gives you one more source of pressure.Young Pyromancer and Snapcaster Mage are also "on theme", but you can't water your spells down too much.
3. Lightning Bolt is reach and clears paths and does all the things. Don't be a Lightning Bolt hipster.
4. If you're willing to consider white, Boros Charm is a lot better than Assault Strobe, if for no reason other than being an instant. Also, all three abilities are likely to be useful. It's a stretch for the manabase, though.
5. I wouldn't mess around with Tainted Strike; the chance of a turn 2 kill seems not worth adding black to the manabase and the possibility of a "poison fizzle". With Nivmagus Elemental you can just exile it, but in topdeck with Kiln Fiend out alone, it's a liability.
6. If you're leaning toward combo, consider Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation. I mean, if you're leaning combo, probably run more protection in general and maybe keep Tainted Strike, and hell if I know anymore, that shit is above my pay grade.

[MarineRaider]

It's just semantics, but I'd really consider this more of a combo deck as you've constructed it. Some of these ideas are going to take you closer to aggro.

1. More than anything, I feel like you're going to want more draw. Manamorphose seems good, Remand if you own it.
2. I'd rather run Delver of Secrets than Simian Spirit Guide. You've got all kinds of ways to flip him, and he gives you one more source of pressure.Young Pyromancer and Snapcaster Mage are also "on theme", but you can't water your spells down too much.
3. Lightning Bolt is reach and clears paths and does all the things. Don't be a Lightning Bolt hipster.
4. If you're willing to consider white, Boros Charm is a lot better than Assault Strobe, if for no reason other than being an instant. Also, all three abilities are likely to be useful. It's a stretch for the manabase, though.
5. I wouldn't mess around with Tainted Strike; the chance of a turn 2 kill seems not worth adding black to the manabase and the possibility of a "poison fizzle". With Nivmagus Elemental you can just exile it, but in topdeck with Kiln Fiend out alone, it's a liability.
6. If you're leaning toward combo, consider Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation. I mean, if you're leaning combo, probably run more protection in general and maybe keep Tainted Strike, and hell if I know anymore, that shit is above my pay grade.

Thanks for the input. I agree the turn 2 kill is just a chance and the cards have to play just right to get it but the look on someone's face when you swing with a double strike infect x/x would be hilarious.

[MarineRaider]

Hey guys,

Had a quick thought about a deck that could potentially win on turn 2 and needs some help. Thoughts on the deck and is Dark Ritual Banned in Modern?
Thanks in advance

Creatures
4x NivMagus Elemental
4x Kiln Fiend(secondary)
2x Flamekin Harbinger

Spells
1x Mutagenic Growth
1x Gitaxian Probe
2x Assault Strobe
4x Ground Rift
4x Tainted Strike
1x Dismember
2XDouble Cleave
4x Pact of the Titan
4X Infernal Plunge
1xApostle's Blessing

Ok I built the deck and will run it in a modern tourney later this month. See the changes above for current construction. Thinking I may want to run Grapeshot too but not entirely sure. Thoughts

[MarineRaider]

Playing this deck tonight, and taking my daughter to her first tourney. (She is playing my Elvish Primal Surge Deck). Wish us luck.

[MarineRaider]

Playing this deck tonight, and taking my daughter to her first tourney. (She is playing my Elvish Primal Surge Deck). Wish us luck.

Well I went 3 and 2, and I am thinking of revamping the deck and making it RU instead of RB. Need more card draw I believe. My Daughter went 2 and 3, with the Surge deck. I am thinking of revamping that into an old school Elf Ball deck. Once I figure out that deck list I will post it here for input.

[FTW]

I believe when I ran this budget deck in Modern at least a year ago I ran:


//11 creatures:
3 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend

//31 spells:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ground Rift
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Assault Strobe
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

//18 lands:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
2 Copperline Gorge

//Temp Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Shriekmaw
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Gut Shot
2 Shattering Spree
2 Molten Rain
4 Surgical Extraction


It was fun albeit super inconsistent. Harbingers helped a bit but not enough. Discard and Apostle's Blessing helped keep removal at bay.

[MarineRaider]

I believe when I ran this budget deck in Modern at least a year ago I ran:


//11 creatures:
3 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend

//31 spells:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ground Rift
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Assault Strobe
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

//18 lands:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
2 Copperline Gorge

//Temp Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Shriekmaw
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Gut Shot
2 Shattering Spree
2 Molten Rain
4 Surgical Extraction


It was fun albeit super inconsistent. Harbingers helped a bit but not enough. Discard and Apostle's Blessing helped keep removal at bay.

Yeah the 2 matches I lost were a America Delver deck( hit me with Path 3 times) and my kid who just ran me over when I got Mana screwed. You are correct Super inconsistent, but no real idea how to make it better, yet keep the concept. How did you do or do you recall?

[YamiJoey]

Gut Shot is really good right now. I would play 4 Gut Shot, Pact of Negation, Mutagenic Growth, and Gitaxian Probe. Then you have your 8 threats to put you on 24 cards. Stompy decks only need around 16 Lands, so we're 20 cards short. Appostle's Blessing seems OP, 16 left. Slaughter Pact costs 0 and does what we need, and if you need the Harbinger then go for it. 3 of each puts us on a 50 card deck. You want to play some discard, so we'll throw in the full 4 Thoughtseize, because it's strictly better than IoK. 6 cards left. Assault Strobe and Lightning Bolt. That puts us 2 cards over. We can cut a Pact of Negation from here now, and possibly a Land. That puts the decklist as I see it:

Permanents: 11
3 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend

Spells: 34
3 Pact of Negation
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Gut Shot
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Appostle's Blessing
4 Assault Strobe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize

Lands: 15
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
7 Fetchlands

Any reason why you settled on Black over anything else here? I'd be vaguely tempted to see if I could play something else over Seize.

EDIT: Is Ground Rift playable? Makes their guys unable to block, and provides ample food for Nivmagus Elemental.

-

Oh. I've just realised it was in the original post. Seems sweet.

[MarineRaider]

Gut Shot is really good right now. I would play 4 Gut Shot, Pact of Negation, Mutagenic Growth, and Gitaxian Probe. Then you have your 8 threats to put you on 24 cards. Stompy decks only need around 16 Lands, so we're 20 cards short. Appostle's Blessing seems OP, 16 left. Slaughter Pact costs 0 and does what we need, and if you need the Harbinger then go for it. 3 of each puts us on a 50 card deck. You want to play some discard, so we'll throw in the full 4 Thoughtseize, because it's strictly better than IoK. 6 cards left. Assault Strobe and Lightning Bolt. That puts us 2 cards over. We can cut a Pact of Negation from here now, and possibly a Land. That puts the decklist as I see it:

Permanents: 11
3 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend

Spells: 34
3 Pact of Negation
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Gut Shot
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Appostle's Blessing
4 Assault Strobe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize

Lands: 15
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
7 Fetchlands

Any reason why you settled on Black over anything else here? I'd be vaguely tempted to see if I could play something else over Seize.

EDIT: Is Ground Rift playable? Makes their guys unable to block, and provides ample food for Nivmagus Elemental.

-

Oh. I've just realised it was in the original post. Seems sweet.

Settled on Black for the possible turn 2 infect kill. I would love to build that decklist but the amount of cash required is prohibitive. However there are a few things you have put in here that make sense, mostly the pacts and the discard. Thanks

[YamiJoey]

Ah, I see. Tainted Strike is way too all in for me. You have to kill them in one swing, whereas with the other cards, you can just T1 Nivmagus, and then 10 them, 10 them to death. Tainted Strike takes up one of your Spell slots, and then you have to kill them with the rest, and all you have is a 2/2 Infect. The discard is not a terrible plan, as you can cast it on T1 or 2 for great effect, depending on what you're expecting to face, but I'd be tempted to just cut them for the Ground Rifts and go all in. There is the possibility of making this a more RG Infect-style strategy, with Vines of Vastwood, Ranger's Guile, and such. It would allow you to have more efficient pump Spells, but have the longer game plan of making +1/+1 counters. It might just be worse than Infect at that point, but it's worth looking into.

[MarineRaider]

Ah, I see. Tainted Strike is way too all in for me. You have to kill them in one swing, whereas with the other cards, you can just T1 Nivmagus, and then 10 them, 10 them to death. Tainted Strike takes up one of your Spell slots, and then you have to kill them with the rest, and all you have is a 2/2 Infect. The discard is not a terrible plan, as you can cast it on T1 or 2 for great effect, depending on what you're expecting to face, but I'd be tempted to just cut them for the Ground Rifts and go all in. There is the possibility of making this a more RG Infect-style strategy, with Vines of Vastwood, Ranger's Guile, and such. It would allow you to have more efficient pump Spells, but have the longer game plan of making +1/+1 counters. It might just be worse than Infect at that point, but it's worth looking into.

Never thought about a R/G version of this but I tell you hexproof really would have helped in one match haha.

[YamiJoey]

Ranger's Guil actually feels powerful here. You give your Elemental +2/+2, or you give it Hexproof. It's also decent with the Kiln Fiend win, which is proving to be way more explosive for me.

[MarineRaider]

Ranger's Guil actually feels powerful here. You give your Elemental +2/+2, or you give it Hexproof. It's also decent with the Kiln Fiend win, which is proving to be way more explosive for me.

Yeah think I am going to rebuild this week with G adding the Guile and give that some play testing.

[FTW]

Guile seems strong. Pacts are amazing since you can either protect a win or eat them with Nivmagus without the drawback. Although Apostle's Blessing does the same thing for 1 colorless mana, minus the +1/+1 pump, and can also randomly make things unblockable. I guess you already maxed out on Blessings though.

IMO Ground Rift is amazing and is why Nivmagus can pull its weight in this deck. Chain a few free spells and then Ground Rift makes Nivmagus massive. Protect it and you just win. Also helps your Kiln Fiend connect without worrying as much about blockers.

I forget what records I got, it was ages ago. Probably got wrecked by UWR but I remember beating up on random aggro and combo.

Is 15 lands enough?

[MarineRaider]

Guile seems strong. Pacts are amazing since you can either protect a win or eat them with Nivmagus without the drawback. Although Apostle's Blessing does the same thing for 1 colorless mana, minus the +1/+1 pump, and can also randomly make things unblockable. I guess you already maxed out on Blessings though.

IMO Ground Rift is amazing and is why Nivmagus can pull its weight in this deck. Chain a few free spells and then Ground Rift makes Nivmagus massive. Protect it and you just win. Also helps your Kiln Fiend connect without worrying as much about blockers.

I forget what records I got, it was ages ago. Probably got wrecked by UWR but I remember beating up on random aggro and combo.

Is 15 lands enough?

I think I was running 18-20 but I don't have any fetches. At this point I really think the R/G is the way to go with more Blessings and Guiles. I will post the new Deck list once I have finished building.

[Tylert]

I think I was running 18-20 but I don't have any fetches. At this point I really think the R/G is the way to go with more Blessings and Guiles. I will post the new Deck list once I have finished building.

I'd play 18 lands at least. You need some consistency and a hand stocked with pump effects, and you don't have the library manipulation tools that legacy offers to search for the second land you'll need to cast assault strobe and apostle blessing or simply to play kiln fiend.