I really dislike drawing creatures in this deck because there's no efficient way to discard creature barring LED, I think you need cards like Careful Study and Faithless Looting to really get value out of anything you'd open hand or top deck into. The deck really feels like Tin Fins, except instead of 2 Griselbrand the LED synergy makes you run more for the open hand win off of LED + Burial Rites. Right now I'm only playing 5 creatures, and that's only to get value after a resolved Griselbrand where you can Entomb and Reanimate for something else once you've drawn 7 to 14 cards and even that's only when I can't Storm out for the win.Originally Posted by [SLAYER]chaos
Edit: I run the full set of Gamble, so that may have something to do with it.
This deck wants Gitaxian Probe so bad, I think it should be the 1st four cards in the deck with the number of other cards re-taken into consideration because of the cantrip effect.
Buried Alive is the ticket I think, thanks! The multiple targets made it fall through my Oracle searching. Maybe Time of Need as an alternative to test also.
Definitely agree on Gitaxian Probe being crucial, I'm not sure why it wasn't in the initial builds. It's so important to know whether or not to play around Daze/Pierce since you will often only have one good shot at the combo turn 1 on the draw. Right now I'm running 3 Gitaxian Probe, 3 Cabal Therapy, 3 Unmask for interaction.
Are you guys not finding Unmask way too resource intensive and overly commital?
I think unmask is necessary just so you can push through something like turn 1 reanimation through LED without just being cold to a FOW, and if you resolve a jin gitaxias or griselbrand the cost isn't a huge issue and if you drop a turn 1 Sire on the play it probably won't matter.
Yeah, the ability to enable turn 1 or 2 reanimation by taking Force or Pierce is so key that I find the card disadvantage to be worth it. I played two games yesterday where the extra mana wasn't there to Thoughtseize, but Unmask was enough to resolve the combo (still lost one of those games unfortunately). Since so many of the early combos use LED anyway, it's not like you can hold onto redundant extra black cards for value on later turns. I think this needs more testing to say for sure.
Brief tournament report and deck notes from 4-round weekly:
RUG Delver (2-1)
Patiently playing around Daze with Lotus Petal was enough to get there in 3 games. Unmask was fantastic, but Thoughtseize/Therapy would be fine too as we're not pressured to combo on turn 1 in this match. Griselbrand is hard enough for them to deal with just as a 7/7 lifelinker that you are in pretty good shape once you get it, even though I found activating it for 7 cards too risky in this matchup.
Miracles (0-2)
Powerful turn 1 hands got my Iona in play before Counter-Top both games 1 and 2, but it wasn't enough either game. Lost to Jace bounce in game 1 (just fast enough to beat Iona when we're on the draw), and Karakas in game 2. I'm not sure the right mix of Pithing Needle and Abrupt Decay to bring in here - it's tough to take anything out of the combo because it's so important to be as fast as possible. Maybe -3 Therapy +3 Needle? Then if I'm not bringing in Abrupt Decay against Miracles, it might as well be cut for more sideboard space.
Death and Taxes (2-0)
Unmask/Therapy to take relevant interaction, Exhume Iona and the game is mostly over. Not much else to say about it other than it feels unfair. Might be worth going for Sire of Insanity instead if you see Karakas since we have little ability to interact with that. I've considered an Inkwell Leviathan too for any of the Karakas/Swords matchups, just not sure if it's too narrow because it doesn't stop Terminus.
Deathblade (0-2)
Turn 1 Deathrite Shaman is a huge problem for us, to no one's surprise. This (and probably any Deathrite + blue deck) is a matchup where the die roll feels absolutely crucial since it's the difference between one turn and two turns to combo before he's active. In both games, it seems like the only real option is to jam what you have before the opponent untaps with Deathrite, and hope that one Unmask/Therapy is enough to get past the counterspells. I brought in Pithing Needle for game 2 and got one down naming Deathrite, but couldn't combo fast enough to get through multiple counters.
I played this deck in a small local tournament this weekend and ended up doing well, though I think that was mostly due to drawing very hot and not playing against a lot of Force of Wills. Here's the list I played:
3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Entomb
2 Faithless Looting
2 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyroblast
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider
We played four rounds then cut to top four. I went 3-0 then ID'd the last round so my 2-1 opponent could be guaranteed to make it into top four. When it came time for the top four we just did an equal split.
My actual games were against RUG Delver, Stage Depths, and Jund splashing blue for Shardless Agent. Like I said, I was drawing pretty hot, but the matchups also seemed pretty good. Against Depths I was lucky he didn't draw much that was relevant, but even aside from that his only real disruption is Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog. Against RUG I felt like I was able to just power past his soft counters, and after board he only really had Surgical Extraction for hate.
I like Inkwell in the main. All of its abilities are relevant in pretty much every non-combo matchup. As much as I like Gamble in a vacuum, I'm leaning more and more towards just replacing it with Faithless Looting. I may try that configuration next time.
Can someone please explain to me stronghold gambit? I really don't get it. All of our creatures are 6 at mana at minimum. The only way to play it successfully is to discard the opponent's creatures first and then cast it. Is it really worth it ?
I never bring it in except against creatureless combo decks like ANT or high tide and sometimes miracles. It allows us to be a faster show and tell deck. You can also bring it in vs sneak and show or reanimator to put in a sire or griselbrand if you're lucky.
Occasionally you can wish for it if you've seen the opponents hand and know that its safe to gambit.
There are a lot of times where it is just a better show and tell. It gets wished for a lot, which is probably its main function, and doesn't get boarded in a lot but it does serve an important purpose.
I'm ditching Pyroblasts from my board in favor of Pithing Needle. I have yet to find the Blasts relevant, because discard and simply overwhelming their number of counters is often enough against blue decks. Deathrite Shaman is a MUCH bigger problem, and Needle is a decent answer to Shaman as well as a number of other cards (Jace, Top, Wasteland, etc).
I don't play this deck anymore, but I used to play 3-4 Izzet Charm, as it's amazingly useful in this deck, being able of:
- Careful study at instant speed
- Spell Pierce
- Kill Deathrites
Could this deck incorporate young pyromancer somehow?
Check out the bride of young frankenstein thread weaponx just bumped, it's close.
As it should be. I built that based on what I thought burning reanimator was missing. I find burning reanimator powerful, but when it fails do do its plan early I found it lacking.
The Parfait Meta-Game
I played this deck at a local legacy tourney last night. It's definitely super fun to play (I had mono black reanimator before that). The list I played was pretty similar to this:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...in-Legacy.html
But I cut the 2 jin-gitaxis for main board elesh norn and tidespout tyrant. I also played 1 Anger in place of 1 Gamble and I played 1 reanimate main as well. I also played a Slaughter Games in the wishboard
Went 2-2, losing to 4 colour cascade and RUG delver in 3 games each. I beat miracles and Stasis. I made a ton of play errors using the new deck but it was still very fun and I learned a lot already. The 1x Anger is actually really strong in this deck. I had 1 T1 win where I reanimated a Griselbrand, then stormed out 24 goblins and discarded an Anger with a LED I used. Another game I entombed for Anger with 10 goblins out to speed up my clock. With Entomb + LED+Gamble there a few ways to get Anger in the yard.
A card I am thinking about adding to the wish board is Past In Flames
I'm still playing this deck and I have to say the sideboard Pithing Needles are awesome. They're way more versatile than just shutting down Spellbombs and Deathrites. I'm also happy with my only Gamble in the 75 being in the sideboard as a Wish target. Faithless Looting is much better in the main.
I'm going to try out Empyrial Archangel in the 75 this weekend. There seem to be a bunch of UR Delver decks around, and they can legitimately just go on the burn plan. I'm not sure yet what to cut for it.
One "fun" sequence from last night: on his turn one my opponent played Ancient Tomb into SDT and Pithing Needle naming Griselbrand. I untapped and was able to Exhume Ashen Rider to exile his one land and then on the same turn Exhume again on my Sire of Insanity to make him discard his hand, leaving him with a board of just Pithing Needle and Top. I actually felt kinda' bad about that because he's a nice guy.
On something for UR Delver I have found that Griselbrand is usually just good enough but sometimes they can race it so it might be useful. My current reanimation targets are 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Grave Titan, 1 Iona, 1 Sire and 4 Griselbrand. I wanted the Titan for decks like D&T or other Karakas decks and it also is great against a Liliana. It could be worth while to just cut it for an ashen rider as it can beat an on board Liliana, though still can be dealt with by a later one and sidesteps and deals with karakas and other problem cards like ensnaring bridge or something, though I have been very satisfied with titan. I also added a Revoke existence to the board as a wish target for cards like rest in peace, leyline of the void or humility. I don't think revoke is the best option for that slot but I can't find any other sorcery speed enchantment removal without adding another color. I also think with elves being as prevalent and good as it is main deck elesh non is a must, it just makes the match up so much easier for us and completely shuts off UR delvers offense.
Good idea on the enchantment removal. I never remember to consider white cards for the wish board. I agree that maindeck Elesh is a must, as is Iona for me (multiple burn decks around my meta).
What are your lists looking like? Here's mine right now:
4 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Gamble
1 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Anger
2 Unmask
3 Unburial Rites
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Stitch Together
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Slaughter Games
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
1 Unburial Rites
1 Ashen Rider
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Burning Wish
3 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask
SB
1 Ashen Rider
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Reanimate
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stitch Together
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
I still really like stronghold gambit as a way of sidestepping graveyard hate and it works really well as the last push once they have countered all your reanimation. All in all the list isn't too different from the original, but I've been pretty satisfied with it so far. Of all the fatties Grave Titan is probably the worst and depending on how much Liliana's are in the meta it could easily be inkwell but so far there are more of the planeswalker than Karakas so I'm sticking with it. I've been considering cutting the spirit guide and adding another land but haven't pulled the trigger yet, I barely actually use it though it is sometimes relevant when I'm trying to storm them out and need the red mana for wish but I've found it to be pretty bad, though it may have a critical enough role to warrant inclusion. It might also be reasonable to cut the gambles for faithless looting but I haven't had a lot of trouble getting things into the yard so I'm not sure about that one yet
I've been using 1x Paraselene in my wishboard. I like the card (looks great in foil!) and it's a strong card to fetch with Burning Wish. Sometimes it's a bit of overkill, so you can also use it's meeker cousin Solemn Offering.
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