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Thread: B/R Burn

  1. #1

    B/R Burn

    Hey all,

    So I've been playing burn for a while due to being out of the format for a couple of years. As well as i like being lazy during tourneys. turn one burn..turn two burn...turn three burn etc..

    Anyways with some of the newer cards i was thinking of putting together a B/R Burn deck. Here is my list currently i think there is an article on the same subject on Channel Fireball.

    Creatures
    4x Deathrite Shaman
    4x Goblin Guide
    2x Grim Lavamancer
    2x Eidolon of the great revel

    Noncreature
    2x Sulfuric Vortex
    4x Lava Spike
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Tyrant's Choice
    4x Bump in the night
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Fireblast
    3x Price of Progress

    Land
    4x Badlands
    5x Mountains
    4x Woodland Foothills
    2x Bloodstained Mire
    3x Arid Mesa
    1x Taiga

    i think the 2x Flame Rift instead of Eidolon would be better but have yet to play test much. As well as curious how it will play without Rift Bolt. Feel free to comment or add anything! thanks.

  2. #2
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    Re: B/R Burn

    Obviously you're not gonna outdue Mono Red at its own game, but my thoughts are, what about adding in a lil' card draw/control in there:

    +4 Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena
    +4 Sign in Blood (double edged draw is good)
    +4 Blightning/Hymn

    +4 Duress (Sideboard?)
    +4 Rakdos Charm (Sideboard?)
    +4 Death Mark (Sideboard?)
    +4 Leyline of the Void (Sideboard?)

    I'd probably cut:
    -4 Goblin Guide
    -2 Eidolon
    -4 Tyrant's Choice (never want anything that gives choice)
    -3 Price for Progress (I mean, maybe SB but its gonna hit you for 2-6 damage as well)

    Just some ideas to work with, trying to play on Black's strengths which is card draw, removal and discard, maybe you can mix in some control elements where red is sort of at the mercy, with black you
    can hope to pluck a Jace, Natural order or S&T out of their hand.

    The other idea I had too, to think about, was adding in Unearth and go Goblin Guide, Keldon Marauders, Vexing Devil, and creatures like that, and make it a sligh with recursion to keep on punishing them. But i really feel like you'd need a draw engine in there, you're gonna run out of steam.
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  3. #3
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    Re: B/R Burn

    Tyrant's Choice doesn't give you choice, it's a 1-sided flame rift. That's the purpose of the addition.

    If you're playing Deathrites and are splashing the taiga then I think I like Sylvan Library more than Dark Confidant since it wont die nearly as often.
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    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by zulander View Post
    Tyrant's Choice doesn't give you choice, it's a 1-sided flame rift. That's the purpose of the addition.

    If you're playing Deathrites and are splashing the taiga then I think I like Sylvan Library more than Dark Confidant since it wont die nearly as often.
    I see.

    I disagree with the Sylvan Completely, yes the Confidant will always be a risk to die, but not only is Sylvan painful card draw, burn doesn't need Miri's Guild and it cant afford to have non-damage sources in the deck everything needs to be putting them on a clock. Like, you can't afford to T2 just play Sylvan and say go.
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  5. #5

    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass View Post
    Obviously you're not gonna outdue Mono Red at its own game, but my thoughts are, what about adding in a lil' card draw/control in there:

    +4 Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena
    +4 Sign in Blood (double edged draw is good)
    +4 Blightning/Hymn

    +4 Duress (Sideboard?)
    +4 Rakdos Charm (Sideboard?)
    +4 Death Mark (Sideboard?)
    +4 Leyline of the Void (Sideboard?)

    I'd probably cut:
    -4 Goblin Guide
    -2 Eidolon
    -4 Tyrant's Choice (never want anything that gives choice)
    -3 Price for Progress (I mean, maybe SB but its gonna hit you for 2-6 damage as well)

    Just some ideas to work with, trying to play on Black's strengths which is card draw, removal and discard, maybe you can mix in some control elements where red is sort of at the mercy, with black you
    can hope to pluck a Jace, Natural order or S&T out of their hand.

    The other idea I had too, to think about, was adding in Unearth and go Goblin Guide, Keldon Marauders, Vexing Devil, and creatures like that, and make it a sligh with recursion to keep on punishing them. But i really feel like you'd need a draw engine in there, you're gonna run out of steam.
    I want to keep it burn and the advantage of adding black is not for the black's strengths. Its for Deathrite and Tyrants's choice really. Im still on edge about bump in the night. Although the Flashback is high in a pinch and or mana flooded it is a more aggressive card than rift bolt as well as more flexible, in that they dont have a draw step to prepare for it. I do not think adding more black is a positive addition to this deck. the key is to remember that Burn is a combo deck. So if not contributing directly then it is in turn useless. Rakodos Charm though seems really good, forgot abou that card.

  6. #6

    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass View Post
    I see.

    I disagree with the Sylvan Completely, yes the Confidant will always be a risk to die, but not only is Sylvan painful card draw, burn doesn't need Miri's Guild and it cant afford to have non-damage sources in the deck everything needs to be putting them on a clock. Like, you can't afford to T2 just play Sylvan and say go.
    I think i would rather have Eidolon over either, he is so disruptive to most decks that they have to get rid of him, so they waste a counter on him or removal. instead of a deathrite or grim lavamancer. If it hits the board you have put the clock in overdrive. I like and dislike him. but the main statement presented here is the correct thought pattern for burn

  7. #7

    Re: B/R Burn

    Sideboard:
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Smash to smitherines
    3 Rakados Charms
    2 Eidolon
    3 vexing Shusher


    Thoughts?

    or 1 krosan and 2 Relics instead of Rakados? it seems good i just dont know the balance.

  8. #8

    Re: B/R Burn

    Also heads up if you play at Asgard tonight in Legacy in Houston, will be needing to potentially borrow 2 Badlands if you would be so kind :) thnx

  9. #9

    Re: B/R Burn

    Hey all tourney last night went bad...
    mostly because of wasteland but also because of a few misplays im sure.

    i played BUG delver and RUG delver and BUG Mid range or something like that and was always very close but no cigar. I think B/R is too easily slowed down to be as effective as Mono red.

    problems:
    Deathrite seems sooo good but I found that in almost every situation I would have rather had a bolt of sorts it took en extra turn to use him which is just too slow a part of the reason why I didnt like Grim but Grim is really good non the less. tyrant and bump are good but at the cost of being suseptable to Wastland and slowing you down? I dont know it doesnt seem like the combo is as good with black involved. but next try will be without deathrite and ill prob put in rift bolts, flame rifts or lava spikes which came out for searing blood in my delver heavy meta. Ill post list later today.

    my main reason for loosing is bad sideboarding if I had to pick any one thing that caused losses.

  10. #10
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    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by pattymac2306 View Post
    Hey all tourney last night went bad...
    mostly because of wasteland but also because of a few misplays im sure.

    i played BUG delver and RUG delver and BUG Mid range or something like that and was always very close but no cigar. I think B/R is too easily slowed down to be as effective as Mono red.

    problems:
    Deathrite seems sooo good but I found that in almost every situation I would have rather had a bolt of sorts it took en extra turn to use him which is just too slow a part of the reason why I didnt like Grim but Grim is really good non the less. tyrant and bump are good but at the cost of being suseptable to Wastland and slowing you down? I dont know it doesnt seem like the combo is as good with black involved. but next try will be without deathrite and ill prob put in rift bolts, flame rifts or lava spikes which came out for searing blood in my delver heavy meta. Ill post list later today.

    my main reason for loosing is bad sideboarding if I had to pick any one thing that caused losses.
    Also you have to remember that Asgard has some phenomenal Magic players, so you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

    On Deathrite in Burn...it's interesting but I'm not sure if it's just a worse Lavamancer here. I like the idea that you can just throw Fireblasts at people willy-nilly without worrying about your lands, but it can't take out problem creatures (like delver), can get nerfed by opposing Deathrites, and really the most relevant ability is the second one, which forces you to have access to Black all the time. I think I'd probably cut them and move the Eidolons to the board in favor of Rift Bolts and Lavamancers. If you're in a meta full of RUG and BUG, I'd run the 4th Price main too.

    As far as Wasteland goes, with your black splash being so small (once you drop Deathrite), you should be able to play around it pretty consistently. Just make sure you get a basic Mountain or two in play first, then fetch for black only when needed.
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  11. #11

    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    Also you have to remember that Asgard has some phenomenal Magic players, so you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

    On Deathrite in Burn...it's interesting but I'm not sure if it's just a worse Lavamancer here. I like the idea that you can just throw Fireblasts at people willy-nilly without worrying about your lands, but it can't take out problem creatures (like delver), can get nerfed by opposing Deathrites, and really the most relevant ability is the second one, which forces you to have access to Black all the time. I think I'd probably cut them and move the Eidolons to the board in favor of Rift Bolts and Lavamancers. If you're in a meta full of RUG and BUG, I'd run the 4th Price main too.

    As far as Wasteland goes, with your black splash being so small (once you drop Deathrite), you should be able to play around it pretty consistently. Just make sure you get a basic Mountain or two in play first, then fetch for black only when needed.
    Ya they are all pretty good, ive top 8 a few times with monored but only once with the full group in town. I do think Deathrite plays like a worst deathrite. It just isnt as smooth as i would like it. The mana ability is often un needed and he is stuck on the board and creating a extra target for removal. I agree with you on all counts.

    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Re: B/R Burn

    As Richard said, B/R Burn does not work because the glue of the deck, Deathrite Shaman, is the worst creature in the deck and exposes you to Wasteland (because you need to run him out fast to get better value / protection of other creatures).

    A splash of black, R/b Burn, works better, but it is still a worse version of monoR Burn. Yes, if we compare individual cards, Tyrant's Choice > Flame Rift, Bump in the Night > Lava Spike. Their effects are strict upgrades, but their damage outputs remain same as their counterparts. Burn is a combo deck, and splashing a colour for equivalent effects that are better in corner cases is not worthy. If Tyrant's Choice dealt 5 or Bump in the Night dealt 4, I would just splash for them.

    As monoR Burn got an upgrade with 4 Eidolon, the lists have become very tight, and they can no longer accommodate 4 Flame Rift and 4 Price of Progress, nor do they have slots for +4 Bolts (Note you cut Rift Bolt for Bump in the Night, maintaining 16 Bolts). Even Tyrant's Choice or Bump in the Night cost R instead of B, there would be a hard time fitting 8 of them in without cutting other similar effects.

    That said, the only way I see Rb Burn works is creatureless. Not only does it open slots for the aforementioned 8 cards (providing strict upgrade over monoR creatureless Burn), but it blanks opponent's creature removals. This kind of deck brings back to the spirit of a 20 Mountain + 40 Lightning Bolts deck. In this way, monoR Burn with creatures and Rb Burn without creatures would have their respective merits. I would still say monoR Burn is the better deck, especially since it has 4 Eidolon now.

    Edit: A sample decklist for Rb creatureless Burn

    7 Mountain
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Badlands
    1 Swamp

    4 Fireblast

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Bump in the Night

    4 Price of Progress
    4 Flame Rift
    4 Tyrant's Choice

    4 Searing Blaze/Sulfuric Vortex
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  13. #13

    Re: B/R Burn

    yup exactly what i realized after the first match of playing B/R Burn verse my old MonoRed set up

  14. #14
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    Re: B/R Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by pattymac2306 View Post
    yup exactly what i realized after the first match of playing B/R Burn verse my old MonoRed set up
    I agree with the creatureless approach, because of the artificial CA created by invalidating any removal.

    But I agree too in that you're not really gaining much over mono red using "equivalent" cards. I feel like you'd really need more cards like Blightning that'll damage & disrupt, some extra benefit like that for the splash to really make it worth while, over just going pure damage. I dunno, maybe Bloodchief Ascension with Eidolon, bolts, Blightning/Hymn? Like you mentioned, You're gonna need something that gives you that extra edge. GL
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  15. #15
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    Re: B/R Burn

    This is literally something I also brewed up last night.


    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Price of Progress
    4 Fireblast

    4 Pyrostatic Pillar
    4 Bloodchief Ascension
    3 Phyrexian Arena
    3 Underworld Connections

    4 Killing Wave

    8 Mountain
    4 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Swamp



    Several different sideboard cards or other inclusions I considered/am considering.


    Rakdos Charm
    // (nice little swiss army knife)
    Smash to Smithereens
    // (obvious SB inclusion)
    Pyrokinesis
    // (also obvious)
    Relic of Progenitus
    // (Leyline of the Void screws with Bloodchief Ascension)
    Howling Mine
    // (tested before and it sucks to give them cards, but it's cheaper than Arena or Connections)
    Tormod's Crypt
    // (see Relic)
    Blightning
    // (the card everyone wants to play in this deck, but probably shouldn't)
    Hymn to Tourach
    // (the card everyone should play in this deck instead)
    Forked Bolt
    // (not enough damage IMO, YMMV)
    Black Sun's Zenith
    // (Killing Wave and Pyrokinesis would be enough IMO, but another option if you NEED DOSE DOODZ DED)
    Skullscorch
    // (either way works for a burn deck)
    Browbeat
    // (see Skullscorch)
    Molten Influence
    // (I can't imagine many ins/sor burn needs to counter, but... figured I'd include it anyway)
    Dash Hopes
    // (see Molten Influence, with the bonus it can get any spell, but it's double black)
    Wrench Mind
    // (see Hymn/Blightning)



    Just a bunch of ideas I jotted down. Pretty much because I have a bunch of spare burn cards I'm not using, combined with the B/R lands sitting around. A lot of them fall under the Danger of Cool Things. Then again, Bloodchief Ascension probably does too.
    Last edited by DarthVicious; 06-21-2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Changed list & other inclusions

  16. #16
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    Re: B/R Burn

    It would make me so happy if Blightning was playable in Legacy. Sadly, I think it's just too expensive for the deck.

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