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Thread: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

  1. #121
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Smea.gol.lum View Post
    Since the last tournament, my list has transformed more and more into Miracles to the point where I have to ask myself if Miracles is the better deck or not.

    Here's my list for reference:


    4 Thought Lash
    3 Laboratory Maniac

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterbalance
    2 Counterspell

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    4 Island
    2 Plains
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Shelldock Isle


    SB:
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Misdirection
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Monastery Mentor
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Wear // Tear
    1 Snapcaster Mage


    It seems to have a better matchup vs Eldrazi due to Lash but a worse matchup vs Delver decks due to Wasteland targeting Shelldock Isle.

    Griffins are to slow sometimes because Lash puts a clock on yourself. I replaced them with Mentors.
    Why not stay mono blue, put in 4x Painters and 4x Grindstones as an alt win condition. If they have Emrakul, just mill yourself with Maniac??

  2. #122

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Took the deck to Eternal Extravaganza last weekend and went 6-3, I won $100. I was playing the Sill Borrower package on the sideboard and took a loss because of my misunderstanding of the combo. I thought the combo was immune to removal once Skill Borrower doesn't have summoning sickness, but I was wrong. If the Borrower is targeted by removal in response to the ability activation, the ability will fizzle and the copy will not be made. I guess most of you guys already knew this and avoided the combo because of that. Anyway, I was very happy with how the deck performed. Shelldock Isle is just insane, was very happy to include it in my deck. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea was also awesome, when games go long being able to have the extra instant speed draw effect can change the outcome of the game. I also used it at some point to draw a Terminus I had set up with Brainstorm and to dig a card deeper with top and found the Force of Will that I needed. The tournament report is below (I didn't take a lot of notes so there might be a couple mistakes):

    Round 1: Shardless BUG (2-0)
    Some how I managed to win game 1 even though my opponent resolved 2 ancestral visions. In game 2 I misdirected his hymn to tourach which depleated his hand and let me combo off safely.

    Round 2: Sneak and Show (2-1)
    Game 1 I had Counterbalance/Top lock out with Thought Lash and Maniac on top, so I could just counter Show and Tell and Sneak Attack. When I finally got another Maniac I played him at won by attacking with him because I didn't want to risk it. Game 2 he had a very fast combo and he won the counter war. Game 3 I had Counterbalance out and used Lim-dul's vault to counter Show and Tell and find the Maniac I needed. Won after that.

    Round 3: UR Delver (1-2)
    Don't remember much about this other than I won game 1 and lost game 2. On game 3 I basically milled myself to go for the Skill Borrower kill and this is the loss I talked about.

    Round 4: Dark Maverick (2-0)
    Won game 1 easily. Game 2 he had a Jitte out, so it was grindier. When he was in lethal range he made the mistake of removing all the counters from the jitte, I sworded his creature and played Thought Lash after that.

    Round 5: Storm (2-0)
    Game 1 at some point he starts going off and even though I have the counterbalance/top lock I can't manage to stop it. He plays infernal tutor, which resolves, but he gets ad nauseam which I can counter by revealing misdirection. I don't remember game 2 very well.

    Round 6: Elfs (2-1)
    I won game 1, don't remember the details. Game 2 I cast Terminus during my turn and got killed on the next turn by craterhoof behemoth. Game 3 went to extra turns, I had rest in peace with energy field out and well as the main combo, but no way to draw cards, so the game was a draw. My opponent very nicely conceded to me because he had no outs.

    Round 7: 4 Color Delver (1-2)
    Game 1 was extremely tight, I don't remember the details but I managed to stabilize at 1 life and win the game. Game 2 we both mulliganed to 5 and I stupidly kept a hand with only one land, tundra, and a top. Tundra got destroyed by wasteland and I didn't find a land for 4 turns or so, he got game 2. Game 3 was very close, can't remember the details but he ended up winning.

    Round 8: BG Depths (0-2)
    Game 1 he got a turn 3 marit lage token and I didn't find terminus nor swords. Game 2 went longer, but I didn't see any terminuses or swords all game long either. He got Liliana at some point at that really hurt, he also got game 2.

    Round 9: Lands (2-1)
    Game 1 was painfully long. He had 4 rishadan ports (some were copies made with thespian's stage) and enough lands to use them all. He also had grove/punishing fire, but after enough time I had chromatic sphere and enough mana to play thought lash, so I got the game. Game 2 he managed to get marit lage after tapping my plains with port to play around the terminus I had on top. In game 3 I was afraid of krosan grip, so when thought lash resolved I held priority and exiled everything but 2 cards to play around it. I played maniac next turn and won.

    Besides from removing the Skill Borrower package from the sideboard, I was happy with the deck. I think Liliana is a troublesome card, and even though I didn't play against miracles, in my previous testing the match is not very favorable. Surgical extraction is also a very scary card to see. I will test swapping the borrower package by a mirror of fate (against surgical extraction, also helpful for other sutuations), a jace, the mind sculptor (negates the discard effect of liliana, could be useful against miracles and as an alternative win condition) and 2 bitterblossom (really excited to try theses against miracles). The list I played was the following:

    Creatures:
    1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    4 Laboratory Maniac

    Instant and sorceries:
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Council's Judgment
    3 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Lim-Dul's Vault
    2 Misdirection
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus

    Enchantments:
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Thought Lash

    Artifacts:
    1 Chromatic Sphere
    4 Sensei's Divining Top

    Lands:
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Plains
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    2 Shelldock Isle
    4 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea

    Sideboard:
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    3 Skill Borrower
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Energy Field
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle

  3. #123

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    I tried the sideboard changes I mentioned last time (1 Mirror of Fate, 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and 2 Bitterblossom). I'm not a huge fan of Mirror of Fate, it's very expensive an is good only in fringe situations. Jace and Bitterblossom have been great though. Bitterblossom is good against Liliana of the Veil, Miracles and slow decks in general. It also provides chump blockers if played early enough, making you save life instead of losing. It's also nice against lands, it provides blockers against their 20/20 token and if they have recurring Punishing Fire, you just get the life back and they have to keep spending mana on it. Jace has been my favorite alt-win condition so far, he can really take control of a game, and even when your opponent manages to deal with him, it usually takes them a lot of resources. I switched the Mirror of Fate for a second Jace and took the deck to a small tournament yesterday and went 3-0, beating Esper Stoneblade, Shardless BUG and Lands, I really like this sideboard configuration. I know most of you don't like splashing black, but I'd recommend to give it a try at least once.

  4. #124
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Bone Mask might be an interesting choice for a sideboard card. You can use it to prevent damage and also help mill.
    Last edited by Fallen_Empire; 01-15-2020 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #125

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    I have been trying different alternative win conditions in the sideboard that would be good against Miracles and Delver. So far I've been using a Stoneforge Mystic/ Batterskull package, and although I still need some more testing I've been happy with it. It avoids Red Elemental Blast, and Swords to Plowshares is the only removal spell that partially deals with it. This came up once, but it was really nice: I had Stoneforge and a Batterskull in play and was facing an army made by Young Pyromancer. I activated Stoneforge's ability, responded by bouncing Batterskull and drawing into Terminus; so Batterskull still ends up in play and attached to a germ.

    As an aside, maybe everyone was aware of this, but I just realized a nice interaction. Let's assume we have a sorcery speed draw effect (say Ponder) and an instant speed one (say Brainstorm). We have Thought Lash in play and Lab Man in our hand, and let's also assume our opponent has a removal spell available. If we cast the Maniac and exile everything once he resolves and respond to the Thought Lash abilities with Brainstorm, that gives our opponent a chance to kill Lab Man. Another thing we could do is exile everything before playing the Maniac, and once he resolves we cast Ponder first, the issue with this line is that if Lab Man gets countered we lose. We can do better though, we play Lab Man and exile everything but don't do anything until the damage prevention abilities resolve. Once they have, we cast Ponder. This forces our opponent to use the removal, and we respond to it with Brainstorm. If they use the removal before all the prevention abilities resolve, we respond with Brainstorm and we also end up winning.

  6. #126
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Esper Maniac Miracles

    Creatures:
    4 Laboratory Maniac

    Planeswalker:
    1 Jace, the Mindscuptor

    Instant and sorceries:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lim-Dul's Vault
    1 Misdirection
    4 Terminus

    Enchantments:
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Thought Lash

    Artifacts:
    4 Sensei's Divining Top

    Lands:
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    2 Ancient Tomb

    Sideboard:
    1 Plains
    3 Entreat the Angels
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Duress
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Rest in Peace
    mtglegacy.blog.hu
    mtgvintage.blog.hu

  7. #127

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Hello guys. I want to try this deck in a real event, after kicked ass online with it. I am still unsure about some choices however, and I'd be gratefull if you can help !

    My current list :

    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Flooded Strand
    6 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Shelldock Isle
    2 Tundra

    4 Thought Lash
    3 Laboratory Maniac
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Force of Will
    2 Misdirection
    1 Chromatic Sphere
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Lantern of Insight
    2 Terminus
    2 Predict

    SB: 2 Back to Basics
    SB: 3 Counterbalance
    SB: 2 Terminus
    SB: 2 Rest in Peace
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Disenchant
    SB: 1 Meddling Mage
    SB: 1 Plains
    SB: 1 Monastery Mentor



    I'm quite happy with it, and I absolutely love Lantern of Insight, and its interaction with Thought Lash.

    My interrogations :
    - Counterbalances are in the sideboard, is it worth to bring them in main deck ? If I do it, I don't know what I have to cut + I have the feeling that i'm turning into a 100% control deck with a combo win, instead of a 100% combo deck with some control elements.

    - I use 2 slots for counter others than FoW. Currently those are Spell Pierce, but I don't know if it's the best choice. I used to run Dazes, and the tempo lost on land bounces was terrible. Maybe I could change for Counterpells ?

    - 2x Gitaxian Probes is awesome because it can allow to work with complete information (in combination with lantern), which is crucial in this deck because when we combo off, there is no other solutions than win or lose on the spot. It is cool also because it allow to freely draw for win with maniac. I wonder if playing it as a 4 slot is a good idea...

    - I opted for the 2-2 split ponder/predict. But, to me, run 2 ponder is like a crime...

    - I am wondering also if 1 or 2 more sol lands and/or lotus petal could be a good ad to the deck...

    - I'm not convinced of the side. I fear pithing needle a lot (on thought lash, it's gg) and in side I only have 2 disanchant and 1 mentor to overcome this. Hurkyl's recall is not really a solution because it bounces sensei top...

    Any propositions ?

  8. #128

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Lantern of Insight is interesting, exiling cards after paying for the cumulative upkeep lets you chose your draw but 4 seems excessive, specially because lantern doesn't do much if Top is already out. An interesting direction to explore would be keeping the lanterns and adding Codex Shredder and play something similar to Lantern Control in Modern.

    I have found Counterbalance to be great in the main, it allows you to play long games when you don't draw Thought Lash.

    About your issue with needle, I like playing 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor as an alternative win condition and having access to Council's Judgement and/or Engineered Explosives. I've also been playing a 2 Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull package in the sideboard, it's a great alternative win condition that doesn't die to removal as easily as the Maniac or Mentor and you can even play around artifact removal by leaving 3 mana open to bounce Batterskull. Also, Needle naming Thought Lash is not game over, you can always refuse to pay the cumulative upkeep, you just need enough protection for the Maniac.

    Finally, I also think you should be playing Flusterstorm in the sideboard, the card is amazing for winning counter wars.

  9. #129

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Thanks a lot for the relevant advices !

    I cutted one enlightened tutor and the chromatic sphere to add 2 cb from the side in main deck. I also cutted a tundra for the basic plain which was in the side.
    The side is still very uncertain and need some work, but there is now 3 free slots. As you said, i'll probably add 1/2 flusterstorm and maybe some other alt win-con (JtMS ?) or karakas.

    However i want to keep the playset of lantern. With lash, it's like a tutor for everything (and especially maniac), and additional copies can always be used to shuffle our deck or the opponent's one. 4 tops + 4 lantern almost guarantee a better turn 1 than the "meh" land->brainstorm.

  10. #130

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Hey guys !
    Up of this topic, as i'm still trying to do something good with thought lash, despite the sensei top ban.

    Here is the list i'm playing currently:

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 6 Artifact
    3 Lantern of Insight
    2 Chromatic Sphere
    1 Scroll Rack

    // 3 Creature
    3 Laboratory Maniac

    // 4 Enchantment
    4 Thought Lash

    // 19 Instant
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Predict
    2 Swan Song
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Daze

    // 20 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Tundra
    1 Plains
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    6 Island
    1 Cavern of Souls

    // 8 Sorcery
    4 Terminus
    4 Ponder


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 2 Artifact
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge

    // 4 Creature
    SB: 2 Monastery Mentor
    SB: 1 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist

    // 3 Enchantment
    SB: 2 Rest in Peace
    SB: 1 Mystic Remora

    // 5 Instant
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Disenchant
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Orim's Chant

    // 1 Planeswalker
    SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor



    It's been ok so far, but quite weak to many spells, and I made no good results in tournaments since the top ban (always 3-2...).
    Any ideas to enhance this ?
    I'm not really sold on dazes, even if it helps a lot to resolve turn 3 thought lash or turn 2 mentor post side. I used to run counterbalances when top was legal, maybe I should include some ? (thought lash+lantern+cb = gg) Was also thinking about bringing in some snapcasters, but not sure i want to be too much control oriented.
    For the side, I think it's quite solid already, but the mentor plan turned out to be ok to mediocre. Maybe some other alternative win-con would be better ? (Helm of obedience ? Luminarch ascension ? not sur artefact/enchant are good when you expect opponents to bring hate already)

  11. #131

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouille View Post
    It's been ok so far, but quite weak to many spells, and I made no good results in tournaments since the top ban (always 3-2...).
    Any ideas to enhance this ?
    Top being banned is actually good for combo decks as we're less likely to be countered or cop *counter-top* IMHO.

    I've been building around Laboratory Maniac for ages, mainly because it's silly and I like that, and it's almost always cheap as chips.
    And I already have Force of Will, so there's that...
    I tried like you have with Lash, altho my list was pretty different to yours. I tried it with Paradigm Shift in a UB approach where I would discard my own cards I wanted in the grave and then win on turn 2 to 3 with the help of free-mana cards like Lotus Petal. I tried a non-land version with Balustrade Spy with mostly free mana cards, and my old mates Azami, Lady of Scrolls & Phantasmagorian for the win (who also appears in Booberry). I also tried a simple Booberry approach with the pseudo-infinite combo between Mesmeric Orb & Basalt Monolith.
    Lots of ways to skin a cat and all that.....

    In short, Lash is my least favourite. You need a lot to go right. A LOT. IME, if a player knows what you're doing, you're invariably easy to pick off.
    The most consistent & robust version IME is Booberry, as it allows you to run a large number of filter and counter, allowing you to find multiples of cards you need, even if it is a bit slow. If you like to live dangerously, where a single counter can torpedo your strategy, play with Spy or Paradigm.
    Bear in mind, Spy and Paradigm are the quicker versions here (when it works).
    I can dig up some basic lists if you like?

    One of the things I would advise you to think about, is instant-speed card draw.
    Only having Brainstorm to protect your hand from discard early, and protect your Labmaniac from removal post combo, isn't where I want to be, especially as it can be countered. I run 4x Street Wraith in most versions I listed above as it cannot be countered.

    Does that help?

  12. #132

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    Top being banned is actually good for combo decks as we're less likely to be countered or cop *counter-top* IMHO.

    I've been building around Laboratory Maniac for ages, mainly because it's silly and I like that, and it's almost always cheap as chips.
    And I already have Force of Will, so there's that...
    I tried like you have with Lash, altho my list was pretty different to yours. I tried it with Paradigm Shift in a UB approach where I would discard my own cards I wanted in the grave and then win on turn 2 to 3 with the help of free-mana cards like Lotus Petal. I tried a non-land version with Balustrade Spy with mostly free mana cards, and my old mates Azami, Lady of Scrolls & Phantasmagorian for the win (who also appears in Booberry). I also tried a simple Booberry approach with the pseudo-infinite combo between Mesmeric Orb & Basalt Monolith.
    Lots of ways to skin a cat and all that.....

    In short, Lash is my least favourite. You need a lot to go right. A LOT. IME, if a player knows what you're doing, you're invariably easy to pick off.
    The most consistent & robust version IME is Booberry, as it allows you to run a large number of filter and counter, allowing you to find multiples of cards you need, even if it is a bit slow. If you like to live dangerously, where a single counter can torpedo your strategy, play with Spy or Paradigm.
    Bear in mind, Spy and Paradigm are the quicker versions here (when it works).
    I can dig up some basic lists if you like?

    One of the things I would advise you to think about, is instant-speed card draw.
    Only having Brainstorm to protect your hand from discard early, and protect your Labmaniac from removal post combo, isn't where I want to be, especially as it can be countered. I run 4x Street Wraith in most versions I listed above as it cannot be countered.

    Does that help?
    Well i appreciate your message, but I think you totally miss the point of that deck (no offense).
    I don't play this deck because of lab maniac. It just happens that lab is a very good combo with lash. But the card i do like is lash, because it allows you to do stupid interactions with the top of your library, which is awesome to control your draw and the game. Of course if my only goal was to win with the combo i would go oops or something close to. Thought lash + Maniac is more a control-ish deck with a combo win. That's why top ban is the worst thing ever, as top was bread and butter for the deck (even more than for miracles !).

    I don't care being discarded of labman early (except if there is surgical). I would even say that it's quite good indeed, as it gives you time to land with less pressure on board. The only thing i want is resolving a lash, and then lantern/scroll rack/brainstorm. Also you are saying that the deck needs uncounterable draw, well, indeed your ability to win with the combo is very high with thought lash, as you can cast maniac with cavern of souls + draw with chromatics sphere (which is a mana ability, so no answer possible).

  13. #133

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouille View Post
    Well i appreciate your message, but I think you totally miss the point of that deck (no offense).
    I don't play this deck because of lab maniac.
    ....
    The only thing i want is resolving a lash, and then lantern/scroll rack/brainstorm. Also you are saying that the deck needs uncounterable draw, well, indeed your ability to win with the combo is very high with thought lash, as you can cast maniac with cavern of souls + draw with chromatics sphere (which is a mana ability, so no answer possible).
    None taken. I understand how your deck works, I used to play a similar-ish version with Skill Borrower years ago.
    Play however you like, just thought I'd offer up some experiences of my own.
    I've played competitively with Labman since it was printed, there isn't a strategy I've seen that I haven't sleeved up and tried against other legacy decks, and there isn't many decks I haven't played a version of Labman against.
    The reason I used to use Street Wraith (with Lash) for draw was lack of interaction, it's mana-free draw and it doesn't require other cards for it to work. I wanted multiple draw options besides Brainstorm etc., in case my opponent sandbagged multiple instant removal spells aimed at Labman on the combo turn.

    FWIW, I don't play with Lash anymore, it was unreliable for me against better opposition, or even Burn for that matter.
    Back when I used to play with Lash/Skilled, I used to run 4 Impulse, 2 Ancestral Knowledge & 4 Long-Term Plans.
    Why not play LTP?

    I also used to run a mix of Foil & Daze, ~10 counter all up with Force.
    I've always found Daze inconsistent for protecting combo/Lash, and worse when you haven't hit 4-cmc for Lash. With only your 8 islands neither of these counter look ideal, but I would say that having *free* counter is where I would want to be.
    The only other *free* option I can think of right now is Disrupting Shoal (vomits in mouth)

  14. #134

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    None taken. I understand how your deck works, I used to play a similar-ish version with Skill Borrower years ago.
    Play however you like, just thought I'd offer up some experiences of my own.
    I've played competitively with Labman since it was printed, there isn't a strategy I've seen that I haven't sleeved up and tried against other legacy decks, and there isn't many decks I haven't played a version of Labman against.
    The reason I used to use Street Wraith (with Lash) for draw was lack of interaction, it's mana-free draw and it doesn't require other cards for it to work. I wanted multiple draw options besides Brainstorm etc., in case my opponent sandbagged multiple instant removal spells aimed at Labman on the combo turn.

    FWIW, I don't play with Lash anymore, it was unreliable for me against better opposition, or even Burn for that matter.
    Back when I used to play with Lash/Skilled, I used to run 4 Impulse, 2 Ancestral Knowledge & 4 Long-Term Plans.
    Why not play LTP?

    I also used to run a mix of Foil & Daze, ~10 counter all up with Force.
    I've always found Daze inconsistent for protecting combo/Lash, and worse when you haven't hit 4-cmc for Lash. With only your 8 islands neither of these counter look ideal, but I would say that having *free* counter is where I would want to be.
    The only other *free* option I can think of right now is Disrupting Shoal (vomits in mouth)
    Oh ! A maniac maniac ! Sweet !
    For long term plans, i think this card will just act as a bad enlightened tutor that costs more most of the time. I don't think the deck wants card disaventage too much .
    For dazes, yes, I do think that it's not the best card here (one of my problems: i love daze so much that i want to play it everywhere). I got an alternative mainboard without dazes :

    -1 Terminus
    -4 Daze
    -1 Enlightened tutor

    +1 counterbalance
    +1 Jace, the mindsculptor
    +2 snapcaster mage
    +2 swords to plowshares



    But i don't know if it's a good idea to go further in the control path. The thing is that other "free" counterspells (foil, disrupting shoal...etc) as super bad cards in legacy. Maybe spell pierce would do the job, but i'm not sure...

  15. #135

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouille View Post
    Oh ! A maniac maniac ! Sweet !
    For long term plans, i think this card will just act as a bad enlightened tutor that costs more most of the time.
    ....
    But i don't know if it's a good idea to go further in the control path. The thing is that other "free" counterspells (foil, disrupting shoal...etc) as super bad cards in legacy. Maybe spell pierce would do the job, but i'm not sure...
    LTP isn't good, don't get me wrong. It's a budget option, but it is on-colour and it's flexible.
    Seeing how you're playing with white for a control aspect, the main reason I suggested Long-term plans, is that c/o Ponder, Brainstorm, preordain etc. you might fetch up Terminus and effectively keep it in the top few cards of the deck until you wanna *miracle* it. E-tutor can't do that.
    Not saying you should do this, but its an option....

    Going down a control path would mean dedicating less deck space to actively finding your win-con. I've never tried doing this with lash without counter-top.
    Personally I would want to double-down on the combo aspect. Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Preordain etc.
    But that's me....

  16. #136
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac


  17. #137
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
    Thassa's Oracle has many combo applications in Legacy.

    Thassa's Oracle + Thought Lash is a true two-card combo that's immune to creature removal, doesn't rely on the graveyard, and is all in the same color.

    Thassa's Oracle + Paradigm Shift requires a way to empty the graveyard before casting Paradigm Shift.

    Thassa's Oracle also streamlines kill packages for Cephalid Breakfast, Oops All Spells, Basalt Monolith/Mesmeric Orb, and possibly Doomsday.
    Thassa's Oracle seems great in this shell!

  18. #138

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    Thassa's Oracle seems great in this shell!
    It is! I play mainly this deck competitively for ~5 years now, and this card is the best news we had in a while. It's stricly better than maniac and way better than Jace at all levels exepts it's not a CA machine in control matchups.

    I had my little moment of glory on MtGgoldfish few weeks ago now : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...h-combo-legacy
    My current list is the same, except I anticipate playing x3 oracle / x1 Jace now

  19. #139

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Did not know exactly where to post - here or in the other thread about brewing with the same cards. See:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ombo-(brewing)

    Skilled Maniac was a deck I like to play/pet in the years of the "Top". After the banning I stopped tinkering about it, because I had the feeling it was not good enough any more.

    After the spoiler of Thassa's Oracle I got attraction for the combo again. I wanted to include the following 3 cards in a combo/control shell:


    Thassa's Oracle
    Paradigm Shift
    Thought Lash


    The question was between Mono U or a splash into Uw or Ub. I ended up with Uw (see list below) and the fact that Skill Borrower is still not good enough without [cards]Sensai's Devining Top[\cards] or something similar in power level.


    4 Paradigm Shift
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Counterbalance
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Force of Will
    7 Island
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    1 Plains
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Ponder
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Prismatic Vista
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Teferi, Time Raveler
    3 Terminus
    4 Thassa's Oracle
    4 Thought Lash
    2 Tundra

    //Sideboard
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Disenchant
    3 Force of Negation
    1 Counterbalance
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Helm of Obedience
    1 Jace, wielder of mysteries
    1 Energy Field
    4 Rest in Peace


    The Sideboard is just some cards atm. That I wanted to play around. With the Rip/Helm package you can go into "2 card monte"-mode and the Rest in Peace helps with the original combo as well, if you need to get rid of the graveyard.

    I just have had 1-2 hours before the FNM to build and sleeve the deck - so it is what it is. I tried to find a list online, that in-cooperates all 3 combo pieces, but I was not able. So I needed to brew it together on my own as it was already in my head. The following lists have been the nearest (and actual) I found in the WWW besides the treads in this forum:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2606148#paper <- basis for my brew

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...h-combo-legacy

    I played it at your local Legacy FNM yesterday. It was a lot of fun. Also seeing the people reading the old cards. I went 2-2 after starting 2-0, but 3-1 should have been possible as well. I made a lot of mistakes and sub-optimal plays lacking experience with the deck. Wins against Oko-Miracles, D&T - Loss against Elves and Grixis Delver (very bad MU imho - lot of red blasts ).

    I would also change some minor things after the first real testing. But the overall strategy was solid imho. Happy to get some feedback!

  20. #140
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by perian View Post
    I would also change some minor things after the first real testing. But the overall strategy was solid imho. Happy to get some feedback!
    I've been meaning to sleeve this deck up for a while now. Seems like lots of fun will be had. I'll need to get some games in before I can give feedback. Glad others are trying it out.

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