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Thread: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

  1. #101

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by gngpostalsrvc View Post
    Smea.gol.lum, what did you cut for the Ancient Tombs? Also, how about Oblivion Ring as a tutorable answer for Gaddok Teeg?
    Hey,

    I also thought about Oblivion Ring, but it will never be amazing, only o.k. Enlightened Tutors felt weak due to the inherent card disadvantage, so I cut them for 2 Swords to Plowshares, which is probably the best answer for Gaddock Teeg.

    I cut 1 Plains (we only run 5 white cards MD, so 2 Plains seems excessive) and 1 Terminus, which you don't want to see in your opening hand.
    With 2 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Thought Lash as answers to creatures, 3 Terminus should be enough.

    The 2 Tombs feel like a really good addition and I think that I 've nearly reached the optimal configuration (sideboard still needs work though):

    4 Thought Lash
    4 Laboratory Maniac

    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Counterbalance

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Impulse
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    4 Island
    1 Plains
    2 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Shelldock Isle
    2 Ancient Tomb

    SB:
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Misdirection
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Misthollow Griffin
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Sacred Guide

    It is odd, but the Griffins were really good in some games, so I will keep testing them. In one game against Miracles, my opponent let Thought Lash resolve and in response to his Wear/Tear I exiled all but 21 cards from my library giving me access to 2 Griffins and a hidden Shelldock spell next turn and ultimately resulting in a win.
    Against decks running Deathrite Shaman and Goyf, I usually bring in 2 Griffins along with RiP as they can't be removed anymore once RiP enters the battlefield.

    Some general thoughts:
    Like Miracles, we run the strong shell of FoW, Brainstorm, SDT, CB and Terminus, but additionally we have got a better matchup versus Eldrazi and Lands.
    In G1, nearly no deck has an answer for Thought Lash, so against fair decks dropping it often spells GG.

    Normally, running so few win conditions results in problems finding them, but with SDT (turning Lash into a digging machine), Shelldock Isle, Ponder, Brainstorm and Impulse that is not the case.

    The deck is very hard to pilot (even more difficult than Miracles because you also have to remember the bottom cards of your library) and I am learning a lot in every game I play. I will take the deck to a tournament soon and hope that I won't make too many mistakes. I'm already looking forward to the flabbergasted views of my opponents when they get killed by Maniac and their insults :)

  2. #102
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Looking forward to trying a list like this. I did toy with the idea of just running Terminus since we already have SDT etc but I figured at that point why not just play Miracles? Like, 2 Jace and 2 Entreat is a lot less slots than our 8 combo pieces :p

    There was an old thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...x-Thought-Lash) about this deck too - figured I should post the link in case people want to go and look through some older lists.

    @Smea.gol.lum I might try a list similar to yours this evening but with a couple of Predict (probably cutting 1 Pierce and 1 Impulse). Do you have any insights about sideboarding with the white splash? How relevant do you think the REBs are? If its just for Miracles there must be some more flexible cards we could use in that M/U.

  3. #103
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    EDIT: Ack. I'm getting old. I confused my old decks.

    Nothing to see here. Carry on.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  4. #104

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by cdnza View Post

    @Smea.gol.lum I might try a list similar to yours this evening but with a couple of Predict (probably cutting 1 Pierce and 1 Impulse). Do you have any insights about sideboarding with the white splash? How relevant do you think the REBs are? If its just for Miracles there must be some more flexible cards we could use in that M/U.
    I think that the REBs are important against Miracles, because u need to be able to remove CB and Jace.
    Blood Moon is also important against all sorts of lands.
    As I said, many of my SB choices are debatable.
    Sacred Guide could be cut e.g.
    I splashed red because it has proven to give Miracles players the edge in the mirror and against other blue decks.
    Against decks without a clock like miracles or fast Combo decks against which I go into control mode, I usually side out 1 Maniac.
    Against Miracles I take out removal and bring in EEs, REBs and Flusterstorms.
    Misdirection against BUG and discard in General.
    EEs could be switched for Wear/Tear.

  5. #105

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by ozimek View Post
    Hurkyl's Recall ? Will likely also get rid of some of their actual threats.
    Rebuild should be better in most instances, because you have the ability to cycle into the win on top of bouncing all artifacts.

  6. #106

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Just Top 8ed a Mythic Games 2K with..."The Maniac."

  7. #107

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Just Top 8ed a Mythic Games 2K with..."The Maniac."
    Awesome! What list did you play? My name for the deck is "Thought Lab".
    Since the deck doesn't run Skill Borrower, it requires a new thread imo. Would it be o.k. if I did the primer?
    I will take the deck to a tournament soon and would wait with the primer until then.

  8. #108
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 05-07-2016 at 11:32 PM.

  9. #109

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Has anyone tried Cavern of Souls? It seems like it could be helpful, specially in the Skill Borrower build (both Skill Borrower and Laboratory Maniac share creature types).

  10. #110

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by relue8 View Post
    Has anyone tried Cavern of Souls? It seems like it could be helpful, specially in the Skill Borrower build (both Skill Borrower and Laboratory Maniac share creature types).
    Too many colorless sources with 4-6 sol lands.

  11. #111

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Nice list!

    How were Mirror of Fate and Chromatic Sphere MD?
    How did Mystic Remora perform?

  12. #112

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Smea.gol.lum View Post
    Nice list!

    How were Mirror of Fate and Chromatic Sphere MD?
    How did Mystic Remora perform?
    1. Mirror of Fate was disgusting. It was arguably one of the best cards in the deck. It felt like Memory Jar. Round one I found it to win a game when an opponent had Needle out on Lash. My opponent playing Jund Thoughtseized me and Surgicaled my Borrowers. I found Mirror of Fate, and after exiling cards with Thought Lash stacked the top of my deck (getting those Borrowers back and a Maniac) and killed him.

    2. Sphere was a nice hedge to have, but never really popped up. I used it once with a Sol Land out to produce blue mana, which was nice.

    3. Mystic Remora pulled big weight against Jund. My opponent kept trying to fire off spells, and I kept drawing. I was more than happy to pay the upkeep, because I just kept stocking my hand (had two Remoras out at one point). By then he was buried under card disadvantage and I just killed him.

    Thought Lash does an amazing impersonation of Demonic Consultation with Skill Borrower out. How gross.
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 05-12-2016 at 01:14 PM.

  13. #113

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    1. Mirror of Fate was disgusting. It was arguably one of the best cards in the deck. It felt like Memory Jar. Round one I found it to win a game when an opponent had Needle out on Lash. My opponent playing Jund Thoughtseized me and Surgicaled my Borrowers. I found Mirror of Fate, and after exiling cards with Thought Lash stacked the top of my deck (getting those Borrowers back and a Maniac) and killed him.
    Why did you also get the Borrowers back? Wouldn't it have been better just to get Maniac and Chromatic Sphere back? I would love to hear how the tournament went for you in detail (especially how you boarded and which decks you faced).

    I will take the deck to a tournament on Sunday and don't know yet wether I'll roll with the Borrower-version or the Borrower-less version.
    How was Swan Song? I see problems in the ANT and Grixis MU when your opponent gets a free creature that he can sac for Therapy. I'll probably stick to Spell Pierce.
    If I choose the Borrower version, I' ll probably make the following MD changes:
    -1 Chromatic Sphere
    -1 Volcanic Island
    -3 Swan Song
    -1 Skill Borrower

    +1 Ponder
    +3 Spell Pierce
    +2 Shelldock Isle

  14. #114

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by Smea.gol.lum View Post
    Why did you also get the Borrowers back? Wouldn't it have been better just to get Maniac and Chromatic Sphere back? I would love to hear how the tournament went for you in detail (especially how you boarded and which decks you faced).

    I will take the deck to a tournament on Sunday and don't know yet wether I'll roll with the Borrower-version or the Borrower-less version.
    How was Swan Song? I see problems in the ANT and Grixis MU when your opponent gets a free creature that he can sac for Therapy. I'll probably stick to Spell Pierce.
    If I choose the Borrower version, I' ll probably make the following MD changes:
    -1 Chromatic Sphere
    -1 Volcanic Island
    -3 Swan Song
    -1 Skill Borrower

    +1 Ponder
    +3 Spell Pierce
    +2 Shelldock Isle
    Skill Borrower was there with Kiki-Jiki in exile in the event I wanted to go for the alternate win. I had protection in my hand, anyhow.

    Swan Song was extremely good. It's a straight hard-counter, and that's what you need. Cards like Spell Pierce - especially in the late game are bad protecting either of your combos. It's also very good against any deck that accelerates into a broken sorcery (i.e. Infernal Tutor, Natural Order, etc.). More often than not the Bird token never mattered. As I was able to lock down the games with Lash and win from there.

    Shelldock Isle just seems narrow. I don't like having a land enter the battlefield tapped, and it becomes even more of a liability in a Wasteland-dominated meta. I actually prefer Island straight-up to it. What made the deck work were the intrinsic synergies, but also just the free-flow aspect of how it played. I played the deck very straight-forward, and was rewarded as such.

    I can see cutting the Sphere, though.

  15. #115

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Just went 7-2-1 at the MKM series event near Frankfurt (22nd out of ca 400 players) with the following list:

    4 Thought Lash
    4 Laboratory Maniac

    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Counterbalance

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Impulse
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    4 Island
    1 Plains
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Shelldock Isle
    2 Ancient Tomb

    SB:
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Misdirection
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Misthollow Griffin
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Wear // Tear
    1 Culling Scales
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Enlightened Tutor

    0-2 vs BURG Goodie Deck
    2-0 vs Burn
    2-0 vs Eldrazi
    2-1 vs Storm
    2-0 vs Stoneblade
    2-1 vs Death n Taxes
    0-2 vs RUG Delver
    2-0 vs Storm
    2-1 vs Mono R Sneak Attack
    1-1-1 vs Death n Taxes

    Made a lot of play mistakes in the beginning of the event, but became more and more confidant over time.

    Shelldock Isle was awesome throughout the whole day. Felt like a 2 for 1.
    Culling Scales out of the board was great against Death n Taxes.
    The Griffins won me the only game I boarded them in. Good quota, but not sure about them.
    Impulse was mediocre at best and is probably the weakest card of the deck.

    Perhaps, it is best to cut the 3 Impulse, some Ponders, 1 Maniac and add Cliques and other win conditions to lower the dependence on Thought Lash.

    Will write a little tournament report tomorrow ;)

  16. #116

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Are any of you going to columbus?

  17. #117
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    This deck appears to have generated some interest in Thought Lash, although the MTG Stocks writer doesn't seem aware that people are actually playing this card and winning with it.
    http://www.mtgstocks.com/news/118

  18. #118
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Going to try a list based on smea.gol.lum's last Miracle-style one this evening. My first time playing legacy in about 2 months so I wanted to play something fun! Will report back with how it goes - just a local 3-round weekly tournament. I think my maindeck is the same but with Predict over Impulse and an extra Island and Plains over the Shelldock Isles.

  19. #119
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Deck was good.

    R1 - Storm
    G1 - My opponent duresses my CB, then also duresses my FoW. Seeing that I only have a Spell Pierce, he decides to go for it but misplays and there is a window where I can Pierce to deny him enough mana to kill me. He then has to spend many turns recovering but by then I have CB, Top and LabMan in play, so once I finally draw a Lash it's over.
    SB - I board in two Flusterstorms and a Mystic Remora for my 3x Terminus. I keep my two Swords to Plowshares in because I suspect he is on Xantids.
    G2 - My t1 Ponder reveals two CBs. He elects not to try to kill me on his t2 having not seen Duress/Probe, so I untap and slam CB knowing that a 1-drop is on top. Next turn I draw the 1-drop which happens to be a Top, and over the next turn or two I play out the second Counterbalance. He resolves a Gitaxian Probe at one point seeing that I have a Flusterstorm and Pierce in hand and the game is basically over.
    2-0

    R2 - Burn
    G1 - My opponent gets to me to 1 life and then I play Lash. He reads the card. It's quite amusing. He tries to play on and untaps and casts some burn spells, causing me to exile some number of cards from my deck. I untap and play LabMan, flip my deck and tap my Divining Top. I actually didn't play around Fireblast here so that could've been embarrassing!
    SB - I board in a Flusterstorm and a Misdirection for a Terminus and a Predict or something. Not 100% sure, might have been some other boarding.
    G2 - I play t1 Top, t2 CB, t4 Lash. I play only basics so I can't randomly die to PoP before t4. I have a 1-drop on top when I cast the Lash, so he can't randomly win with REB.
    4-0

    R3 - Tezzeret
    We ID but play it out for funsies.
    G1 - I keep a hand with no control cards but all the combo pieces and two Forces, so figure I can just race? He makes a Chalice and Thopter/Sword alongside a mox and a signet or something. I'm not that impressed since I have a Thought Lash but then he plays Tezzeret so I have to win on my turn otherwise his -4 kills me. I fail to do so through his countermagic.
    SB - I board in a Wear/Tear, my 2 Culling Scales and 2 Pyroblasts for... my Swords to Plowshares, a Terminus and a Predict or something like that. I should've brought in my 2 Rest In Peace in retrospect, but didn't for whatever reason.
    G2 - I have a more normal Top into CB opener and he doesn't do a lot. I let him resolve a Chalice. There's a turn where I awkwardly fetched a Tundra in case I needed to Terminus for his Thopters and he proceeded to instantly Wasteland it. Fortunately I am holding Ancient Tomb so I untap, play Tomb and kill him with Lash + LabMan + Top with backup.
    G3 - I mull to 5 cards, while my opponent plays t1 land mox signet, t2 Tezzeret. I make some effort (There's always the chance I can just randomly kill him) but I'm just sooo far behind. I resolve Culling Scales on 3 but my opponent has triple Chalice which he can play out to protect his other permanents.
    5-2

    Deck seems surprisingly fine. I just like slamming Thought Lash and having my opponent say "uhhhhh can i read that pls"

  20. #120

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Since the last tournament, my list has transformed more and more into Miracles to the point where I have to ask myself if Miracles is the better deck or not.

    Here's my list for reference:


    4 Thought Lash
    3 Laboratory Maniac

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterbalance
    2 Counterspell

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Terminus
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    4 Island
    2 Plains
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Shelldock Isle


    SB:
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Misdirection
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Monastery Mentor
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Wear // Tear
    1 Snapcaster Mage


    It seems to have a better matchup vs Eldrazi due to Lash but a worse matchup vs Delver decks due to Wasteland targeting Shelldock Isle.

    Griffins are to slow sometimes because Lash puts a clock on yourself. I replaced them with Mentors.

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