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Thread: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

  1. #141

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    gitaxian probe is banned, also thassa's oracle is better than labman

  2. #142
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    I've been thinking about this deck.

    Jeskai Breach is another Thassa's Oracle deck that also runs a UW shell and plays a control-combo game. It uses a 3-card combo + red mana to get rid of its library before deploying Thassa's Oracle (or winning with Brain Freeze or burn). Despite needing 3 combo pieces and 3 colors and being vulnerable to graveyard hate and storm hate and artifact hate, it's been very successful! Much of the success comes from the fact that it can play the control role, sculpt, and wait to go off when ready. It's a Xerox deck with an explosive "I Win" button instead of fragile Delvers or Planeswalkers.

    This deck has a much simpler way to get rid of its library (fewer moving parts, less vulnerabilities). It should be able to perform well in a similar UW control/combo shell.

    The combo is more compact. There are very few "dead cards" too. Redundant combo pieces pitch to FoW. Thassa's Oracle chump blocks and provides library manipulation. Thought Lash can protect your life while you sculpt. Paradigm Shift can tutor you into Thassa's Oracle if it's in your graveyard with some cantrips.



    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Tundra
    2 Snow-Covered Plains
    5 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Cavern of Souls

    //Combo: 9
    4 Thassa's Oracle
    4 Paradigm Shift
    1 Thought Lash

    //Xerox: 16
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain

    //Support: 8
    2 Orim's Chant
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Set Adrift
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Board Control: 7
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Serenity
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Orim's Chant
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Narset, Parter of Veils
    1 Null Rod


    Curve
    1: 21
    2: 11
    3: 2
    4+: 2

    I started with a lot of the control and combo protection aspects that were working for the Breach shell and was able to find room for even more control tools, because this combo both takes up less deck space and demands less support from other cards.
    Jeskai Breach: 20 mana + 12 combo + 16 Xerox + 1 wincon, leaves 11 more slots
    Oracle Shift: 20 mana + 9 combo + 16 Xerox, leaves 15 slots

    With that extra space, I had room for maindeck StPs and Snapcasters for card advantage and better board control, since this combo is slower at racing.




    Card choices:
    Snapcaster Mage: Proven pillar of UW control, juggling StPs and counters and cantrips

    Orim's Chant: Does everything from protecting you when you want to go off, Time Walking the opponent, and disrupting other combo decks while ignoring Veil

    Teferi, Time Raveler: Protects you when you want to go off. Bounces hate. Stalls opponent.

    Set Adrift: Tech to empty your graveyard for Paradigm Shift and handle anything on the board from Oko or Chalice to just a pesky Delver. Teferi's +1 lets you play this as an instant like Submerge. It can also take a Thassa's Oracle in play and put it on top of your own library.

    Cavern of Souls: Naming Wizards makes both Thassa and Snappy uncounterable! But too many non-Islands is bad for the cantrips.

    Serenity: I like the 2-for-1 potential over Disenchant. I've found this card very powerful in Breach for its ability to remove multiple problems at once: Chalices, Spheres, Moons, Deafening Silence, Astrolabe, Grids, Choke, mana rocks.... Even though we fear less permanent hate, the meta has a few artifact-heavy decks.

    Rest in Peace: This sees little play because its too slow vs BR Reanimator, but the ability to remove our own graveyard could be useful for Paradigm Shift



    Other cards that deserve consideration:
    Intuition: EOT combo tutor for either piece. But this seems a little weak, puts extra cards in GY (bad for Shift), opens you up to Surgical..

    Relic of Progenitus: Maindeck Relic hates out opposing strategies, empties the grave for Paradigm Shift, and cantrips.

    Counterbalance: We have the library manipulation and curve to abuse it, but it may not be necessary when we can just combo off

    Terminus: If decks like D&T are a problem, maybe some copies are needed in the SB, but for now I'm hoping StP+Snappy are enough

    Predict: Card draw.

    Noxious Revival: Puts a card on top of library so we don't die to draw step if we get disrupted.



    This deck would be busted with 3 Dig Through Time, if only that was still around...


    I need to test this out, but it seems like it has potential.

    Fastest goldfish is turn 3! T1 cantrip. T2 Shift (library size=1-2). T3 Oracle. (possible FoW/Chant/Cavern backup)
    But most of the time you can just go slow.
    Last edited by FTW; 02-23-2020 at 07:09 AM.

  3. #143
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Tested 10 games against Delver. Got a few wins, but also ran out of gas quickly in other games.

    Something's missing. Either need to double down on control with 2-3 Terminus main, or double down on combo with a tutor engine. 4 Preordain may be too many too. Thought Lash is very slow and I'm debating cutting the only copy.

    I tried the following cards main:
    Predict
    Terminus
    Orim's Chant
    Rest in Peace
    Narset, Parter of Veils
    Intuition

    A lot of the generic control cards just felt like "lose less". It doesn't help advance the game plan. I wasn't even a big fan of Snapcasters.

    When you find the right cards it can go off really effectively with protection. Off few lands you can Paradigm Shift and pass the turn. Your library becomes a small number of cards, many of them cantrips. Then you cantrip and cast Thassa. Cavern, counters and Teferi add many layers of protection. The games I lost I just cantripped into oblivion and could not assemble anything, which tilts me towards tutors.

    Intuition was explosive, but is slow without Ancient Tombs.

    Currently testing this.


    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Tundra
    6 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Plains
    2 Cavern of Souls

    //Creatures: 7
    4 Thassa's Oracle
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    //Planeswalkers: 2
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Enchantments: 1
    1 Thought Lash

    //Spells: 30
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Preordain
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Set Adrift
    1 Predict
    4 Paradigm Shift
    2 Intuition

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Disenchant
    2 Orim's Chant
    2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Narset, Parter of Veils
    1 Null Rod
    1 Tormod's Crypt


    A 1-of Sevinne's Reclamation would enable this Intuition pile when you have neither piece:
    Thassa's Oracle, Thought Lash, Sevinne's Reclamation
    But it requires a lot of mana to flashback.

  4. #144

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I've been thinking about this deck. ...
    @FTW it's more or less the same shell I postet some days ago. Besides some minor changes. See
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1080996

    Set Adrift is a nice include btw. I was tinkering about a delve spell which can make the cut in UW.
    Look at my mana base - I would recommend you to include Mystic Sanctuary. ATM i run two and only one Tundra, one Plains.

  5. #145

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    A 1-of Sevinne's Reclamation would enable this Intuition pile when you have neither piece:
    Thassa's Oracle, Thought Lash, Sevinne's Reclamation
    But it requires a lot of mana to flashback.
    How should this work? I don't get it. You will end up with only oracle in your hand e.g. Lash has CMC 4

  6. #146
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by perian View Post
    @FTW it's more or less the same shell I postet some days ago. Besides some minor changes. See
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1080996

    Set Adrift is a nice include btw. I was tinkering about a delve spell which can make the cut in UW.
    Look at my mana base - I would recommend you to include Mystic Sanctuary. ATM i run two and only one Tundra, one Plains.
    I cut down to 1 Plains but added a 2nd Tundra.

    I saw your list and thought about Sanctuary, but it seems too slow. It doesn't advance the main game plan, it's just incidental value. In testing I find every land that doesn't enter untapped for blue on turns 1-3 is a tempo liability and weak draw in the opener. I'm down to 1 Plains + 2 Caverns as the nonblue lands. Caverns and Sanctuary both occupy the same utility land space, but I'm leaning towards Caverns instead (protect win condition) over Sanctuary (recycle cantrip). When do you use Sanctuary most? What's the main value you get from it? I might cut an Island for 1.

  7. #147
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by perian View Post
    How should this work? I don't get it. You will end up with only oracle in your hand e.g. Lash has CMC 4
    Oh right, forgot about Lash's CMC. Nevermind, it doesn't work.

    Is there some other way to stick both Thought Lash and Oracle on the board efficiently? Otherwise Thought Lash is very slow.

  8. #148
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Is there some other way to stick both Thought Lash and Oracle on the board efficiently? Otherwise Thought Lash is very slow.
    Lotus Petal Saprazzan Skerry??

  9. #149

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    When do you use Sanctuary most? What's the main value you get from it?
    It is very good with counterbalance and terminus. Maybe that's the reason your list cannot optimize it's full value. It's only one card, with very little downsides compare to the possible benefits imho.

    I also used it to recycle countered paradigm shifts or reduce the gy if naturally drawn or if the fetch is needed (to keep the qy card count) to combo off.

    Gesendet von meinem D6603 mit Tapatalk

  10. #150
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    This deck 5-0'd last week:
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2791791#paper

    Who needs white? Just play 8 Maniacs and 8 Thought Lashes.

    It uses the same blue Xerox shell (FoW, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Spell Pierce) but then just plays combo acceleration and redundant pieces instead of control spells.

  11. #151

  12. #152

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    That's me! I was really happy with the deck. Discard was great. I flooded out some games, and there are a billion universes where i win my quarterfinals match, but it was not meant to be. All matchups feel winnable but FoWbreach is pretty bad. Delver can be rough as well.

  13. #153
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    That's me! I was really happy with the deck. Discard was great. I flooded out some games, and there are a billion universes where i win my quarterfinals match, but it was not meant to be. All matchups feel winnable but FoWbreach is pretty bad. Delver can be rough as well.
    Congrats. Skeletal Scrying is the best Delve tech I've seen for this deck.

    Running 4 Thought Lash with acceleration but no Lab Man seems better. Lab Man seems bad for a lot of reasons.

  14. #154
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Now I really just wish I hadn't turned one of my old copies of Paradigm Shift into a bad proxy for Vintage, way, way back in the day, .

    I don't recall how many Thought Lash I have though and I still need to pick up Oracles.

    I guess in theory I am curious as to the relative strengths of this as opposed to Doomsday (with Oracle). On the one had, Doomsday puts pressure on your life total, where Thought Lash sort of does the opposite, but on the other hand, Thought Last is a four-mana Blue card and Doomsday is a three-mana Black card in a deck with Rituals. In a world of Daze and Blasts, it would almost seem plausible that Doomsday is a bit better, but then the consideration of Chalice comes in, shirting things back the other way, maybe.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  15. #155

    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    The graveyard cleaning aspect of skeletal scrying has actually been underwhelming. I often scry for 2 cards, and that only removes 1 from the graveyard. But the deck is really controlling with 7 counters and up to 7 discard postboard so quite a few games vs combo and control where i'm controlling the game for 4-5 turns then scry for 4-5 cards and combo off with them.

  16. #156
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Even if it doesn't exile that much, it seems like a good source of instant-speed card advantage that also accelerates the main game plan. If you played Predict or Accumulated Knowledge it would work against you.

    Has anyone else tested Intuition? There are a couple things I like about this card:
    -If you have Shift and get 3x Thassa, your new library contains 2 backup Thassas for you to win through disruption
    -If you have Thassa and get 3x Shift, your new library contains 2 Shifts so you can Shift a 2nd time to clear those cards.
    -If you're about to cast Paradigm Shift, anything you Intuition for (protection spells, etc) will end up shuffled into the new library

  17. #157
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    Re: [Deck]Skilled Maniac

    Just curious if anyone is still jamming this one? Seems fun and a little different. Not sure if there is another thread or maybe discord channel spun up?
    Anyway, I like the idea of this. Curious at what type of lines of play we look for.

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