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Thread: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

  1. #1

    [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    So, I've see a number of combo elf decks that use Regal Force, Glimpse of Nature, Genesis Wave, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Beck // Call. I wanted to go a different route.

    Lands
    2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    4 Cavern of Souls
    12 Forest

    Mana Creatures
    3 Elvish Archdruid
    4 Llanowar Elves
    2 Elvish Mystic

    Infinite Mana Engine
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    3 Heritage Druid
    4 Cloudstone Curio

    Tutor
    3 Elvish Harbinger

    Creature Acceleration
    4 Elvish Visionary
    2 Abundance

    Token Generation
    2 Wren's Run Packmaster
    2 Lys Alana Huntmaster

    Life Gain
    2 Essence Warden

    Creature Pumping
    2 Joraga Warcaller

    Other
    1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
    2 Elixir of Immortality
    1 Helix Pinnacle
    1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves

    Sideboard
    Nullmage Shepherd
    Gravity Well
    Spreading Algae
    Tajuru Preserver
    Grafdigger's Cage

    This deck works around being versatile and requiring no specific combo to win, as a result, I've found it SUPER reliable. obviously this deck revolves around Cloudstone Curio to do multiple combos a turn (or infinite combos if you have Heritage Druid out). The nice thing is this takes advantage of the variety of elf abilities to make everything combo. There are two main groups of win condition combos, mana sink combos and comes into play combos.

    Mana Sink Combos
    1 Cloudstone Curio + 1 Nettle Sentinel + 1 Heritage Druid + any 2 mana elves + Wren's Run Packmaster = infinite 2/2 deathtouch wolf tokens
    1 Cloudstone Curio + 1 Nettle Sentinel + 1 Heritage Druid + any 2 mana elves + Helix Pinnacle = straight out win
    1 Cloudstone Curio + 1 Nettle Sentinel + 1 Heritage Druid + any 2 mana elves + Joraga Warcaller = Elves get +∞/+∞

    Comes into Play Combos
    1 Cloudstone Curio + 1 Heritage Druid + any two mana elves + 1 Lys Alana Huntmaster = infinite 1/1 elf tokens
    1 Cloudstone Curio + 1 Heritage Druid + any two mana elves + 1 Essence Warden = infinite life gain

    There's also ways to infinite play Elvish Visionary and draw as many cards as you like. In fact, she can basically replace Genesis Wave, Beck // Call, and Glimpse of Nature.

    The nice thing is heritage druid isn't actually necessary for the deck to go off.
    Elvish Visionary + Lys Alana Huntmaster + Cloudstone Curio is just scary by itself. You play Visionary which triggers the Huntmaster which causes the Curio to bounce Visionary back into hand. You can easily play her 4+ times a round and get as many 1/1 elves. Throw an Archdruid on the field and I've played her as much as 11 times before I drew into a Heritage Druid and triggered a win condition. Also, Wren's Run Packmaster is great if there isn't a Curio out because she works well with the mana gen of this deck and it's very realistic to be putting out 2-6 2/2 wolves with deathtouch a turn if you have nothing better to play.

    The other nice thing that isn't obvious is this deck is brutal against field wipes. Use Wren's Run Packmaster to champion an Elvish Harbinger and when they wipe field the Harbringer returns to play, letting you search your deck for an Elvish Visionary. Combine that with an Elixir of Immortality and it's possible to go into an infinite combo the very turn after they wipe.

    Joraga Warcaller also proves to be superior to Craterhoof Behemoth because there's no fear of playing him early game kicked once or twice when you can just bounce him back later for a much higher bonus.

    Also worth noting, Cloudstone Curio doesn't target so there's no interference by Eladamri, Lord of Leaves.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    1) Eldamari is not Modern legal.
    2) "no specific combo to win" =/= "this deck revolves around Cloudstone Curio". You MUST find Curio, or else you lose to basically every unfair deck in the format. Honestly, it looks strictly worse that just playing something like:

    Creatures: 39
    4 Arbor Elf
    4 Elvish Mystic
    4 Heritage Druid
    4 Llanowar Elves
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Elvish Visionary
    4 Voyaging Satyr
    4 Elvish Archdruid
    4 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
    1 Regal Force
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Spells: 4
    4 Summoner's Pact

    Lands: 17
    3 Forest
    1 Dryad Arbor
    4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Temple Garden
    1 Stomping Ground

    Like, you could cut the Satyr Wayfinders here, but I feel like they pull their weight enough, even though they may not be Elves.

    I don't see what the advantages are of any of the cards in your deck over just playing four of every good engine piece, four Summoner's Pacts, and then some stuff do draw a billion cards, and some stuff that wins the game outright.
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  3. #3
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    I do not get why presenting 5 combos, all of them including heritage druid and play only 3 of them.

    But I will like to see an elf combo deck in modern (it may me start to play modern).

    I believe you could at least remove
    1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
    2 Elixir of Immortality
    1 Helix Pinnacle
    1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
    2 Lys Alana Huntmaster
    2 Essence Warden
    3 Elvish Harbinger
    2 Abundance

    15 cards, to make room for tutors (pact, chord, fauna shaman), tutor tagets (regal, craterhoof, mirror entity if white, reclamation sage & ooze,...), business spells (lead the stampede, ),...

    I never tried it (I play elves in Legacy) but why Beastmaster ascension is no good?

  4. #4
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    I've never considered Cord. The list above was a little older, and I'd cut Dryad Arbor for being just crap every game. Cord might change that. (Then again, might not. I'll have to jam it and find out.)

    EDIT: I also finally decided on a sideboard, so the U and R Shocks have been cut for Forests.

    1 Back to Nature
    2 Creeping Corrosion
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Stony Silence
    3 Torpor Orb
    3 Eidelon of Rhetoric

    The flex slots are a Back to nature, Creeping Corrosion, a RiP, and an Eidelon to begin with. Bogles, Storm, and Affinity are particularly popular around me, so they are required reading. Orb is good against loads of stuff, including Fae, Pod, and Twin. Rhetoric is a 3-of because I feel like there's no real way to find it, so I've upped the count. I feel like we need trip Stony as Affinity seems like a bad MU. They're just faster than us, and have cards we can't interact with. With double Corrosion this may not be true, but I don't have anything else to hand with me. I could see trying to incorporate the Curio combo in here somewhere, as Curio + Visionary definitely seems powerful, but Curio is just so bad when you've no engine pieces.
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  5. #5

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Hi guys,

    new here posting but long time reader specially in Legacy Elves Combo tread..

    Modern is gaining popularity in my local that's why i build my own elves modern combo. Its basically a conversion from legacy to modern as much as possible. That's why I want an opinion from experience modern elves combo player.

    This is my list

    17 Lands

    6 Forest
    2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Breeding Pool
    1 Pendelhaven


    31 Creatures

    4 llanowar elves
    2 elvish mystic
    4 nettle sentinel
    4 heritage druid
    4 elvish visionary
    2 scryb ranger
    4 elvish archdruid
    1 Essence Warden
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 ezuri renegade leader
    1 Regal Force
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Createrhoof Behemoth



    12 Other Spell

    4 Cloudstone Curio
    2 Beck / Call
    4 Summoner's Pact
    2 Chord of Calling



    15 SideBoard

    4 beast within
    3 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Damping Matrix
    1 reclamation Sage
    3 Choke
    2 Krosan Grip




    My sideboard is still on development mode. I like the creeping corrosion in the side cause affinity is gaining popularity in my meta. my best result with the deck is 3rd/10 players. Small sample size cause there little modern player in my local that's why i want to know if my deck really has potential against wide variety of modern deck.

    Any suggestion how to improve my deck and what is the bad MU of this deck in modern?

  6. #6
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    As much as the Elves cardbase in Modern is still good it doesn't stand a chance pre-side (and not even postboard I may say) to Splinter Twin and UWr control unless you're faster than them- something's not going to happen. Snapcaster-Bolt-Electrolyze is a tough cornerstone to beat for swarm decks and you don't have anyway to interact with your opponent, so basically t3 Exarch/Mite + Twin you can't do anything about.

    Jund on the other way although not playing a combo finish can drive you to overextend by discard your resilient spells/Tarmogoyf/Confidant and then sweep the board with Anger of the gods. A good player will force you to drop at least 2-3 pieces per time to keep up the pressure/race since none of your pieces alone can stand a board and you are not explosive enough to pull off a win in a single turn from an empty board like the Legacy version with Glimpse and adequate mana does.

    You're also an underdog to a well-played Living End and Tron finding Pyroclasms early enough to slow you down.
    ---

    Not trying to be overly pessimistic or generalizing (after all each game differs), but no sorcery-speed green deck has taken off in Modern and probably never will as long as the format is dominated by such overabundance of efficient removal spells and 2-card combos. If Wirewood Symbiote existed you could dive into BG Elves with four Decays maindeck and stand a chance, but without it I find it too hard to do well on a consistent basis.
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  7. #7

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    so sad to hear that. It looks like changing deck is the way to go.

    BUT

    I love this little pointy ears. I want them to be as competitive as combo elves does in legacy. When I start reading the thread in combo elves in legacy thread the deck is not as competitive and popular as the deck today. The folks there put so much effort in improving the deck despite so many bad MU. They tackle every deck 1 by 1 to find solution in each MU. until they come to the point where it is now.

    I want to do it here. I hope there a ton of elves lover who plays modern. So that we can waste so many precious time to improve this deck via testing.

    Ill start with removing U splash and change it to B. I want to test the decay and add discard main. Let see how it goes.

  8. #8
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    @ urza_ass: I think I share your background & objectives: I do play elves in legacy, do not really know modern, but will like to play the deck there.

    I believe with you that if enough people share a bit of brainstorm here, we will reach a deck maybe not as competitive as in legacy, but still playable.

    First, random thoughts about your list / general ideas:
    I'm sure you do not want lands like Hinterland Harbor, especially with only 10 forests. fetchs seems better.
    If we play fetches and scryb ranger, 1 dryad arbor.
    As wasteland is not really a thing in modern, at least 2 pendlehaven seems nice.
    I do not see the point with Emrakul. If you can cast it, Behemoth/regal will make you win anyway.
    I bet you want 4 chord, and probably 1 mirror entity.
    Maybe 4 beck/call?
    Probe may be a nice inclusion, especially if we play pact.
    If we want to play more combo around curio, is fabricate playable?
    1 Wren's Run packmaster?

    Reading that, I see we should choose the splach color (s?):
    White: mirror entity, gaddock, dauntless escort ?
    Blue: Beck/call, fabricate => more combo. Counters too.
    Black: seize & decay => vs combo, delver.
    Red is probably less valuable.

    I believe that B&W could work well together for a more control approach, with answers to opponents deck, protection (escort) and combo only with curio and EoT chord => entity.
    Blue on the other hand seems more focused in increasing the combo constistency and therefore may be not good in a double splash.

    Hope this will help this thread to stay alive because I really would like to play modern elves.

  9. #9

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Emrakul so far won me 1 game where if not for him i'll definitely lose. I think its vs soul sister. during the turn I produce 1 mil mana causing him to gain 6 mil life(2 soul warden in play causing him to gain 6 life per 1 mana I produce in 1 cycle). without emrakul's inihilator and infinite turn. Ill probably lose the next 2 - 3 turns. And so far Emrakul is the best and deserving guy to spend the million mana this deck produce in 1 turn..

    so far Im in tight budget thats why im in modern I find difficulty assembling the elves for legacy. I'm thorn between blue and black splash.. I'm liking the potential control of the black but right now I see my deck leaning into U because my initial mana base is U splash. I got a play set of breeding pool and I want to test the blue splash first.

    So what will be the best counter suited to the deck..??

    Condescend
    Remand
    Spell Pierce

    edit : Curio is still the best combo enabler in the deck but I dont think we need fabricate. a play set curio is enough for me. Seeing more than 1 copy is annoying but sometimes it worth it. besides, the deck really dont rely on curio that much because it can go aggro or go with beck.
    Last edited by urzas_ass; 07-28-2014 at 08:41 AM.

  10. #10

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by urzas_ass View Post
    Hi guys,

    new here posting but long time reader specially in Legacy Elves Combo tread..

    Modern is gaining popularity in my local that's why i build my own elves modern combo. Its basically a conversion from legacy to modern as much as possible. That's why I want an opinion from experience modern elves combo player.

    This is my list

    17 Lands

    6 Forest
    2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Breeding Pool
    1 Pendelhaven


    31 Creatures

    4 llanowar elves
    2 elvish mystic
    4 nettle sentinel
    4 heritage druid
    4 elvish visionary
    2 scryb ranger
    4 elvish archdruid
    1 Essence Warden
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 ezuri renegade leader
    1 Regal Force
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Createrhoof Behemoth



    12 Other Spell

    4 Cloudstone Curio
    2 Beck / Call
    4 Summoner's Pact
    2 Chord of Calling



    15 SideBoard

    4 beast within
    3 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Damping Matrix
    1 reclamation Sage
    3 Choke
    2 Krosan Grip




    My sideboard is still on development mode. I like the creeping corrosion in the side cause affinity is gaining popularity in my meta. my best result with the deck is 3rd/10 players. Small sample size cause there little modern player in my local that's why i want to know if my deck really has potential against wide variety of modern deck.

    Any suggestion how to improve my deck and what is the bad MU of this deck in modern?
    First of all, you should consider, where your want your deck to be.

    What I intend to say with this sentence is really simple.

    In the current configuration, your deck emulates the "older" Elven Deck which tried to push into an Emrakul Chain.
    Thus it is sort of "all in". To reach that goal, you should want to have as much enablers as possible (a.k.a. Becks).
    Also you are "sort of" short on blue mana, since you cannot statistically provide GU in T3 consistently.

    Also you try two different WinCons in your mainboard which is... suboptimal.
    While I would understand 1 Hoof alongside one Force (or two Hoofs) you go for 1 Emrakul, 2 Hoofs and 1 Force.

    This (and Ezuri as mana sink) suggest a more grindy game approach.

    Kindly note that there is A LOT OF creature removal in this format and you might want to redesign into a more
    grindy design after testing.

    Now having said that, you already have various good ideas integrated:

    Reclamation Sage MD & Side. Good choice.
    Chords. I would go for a 3 of, maybe even 4 of.
    Reasoning: Since this allows us to get more util AND triggers of Beck, you "could" get more use out of it.
    Personally I would try them as 3 of at first.

    I really like those Scryb Rangers, although the aren't elves.
    They would be even better if we could squeeze in an Elvish Archdruid.

    Like you already said, your SB is all over the place so I will not go there until you decided what version you are
    really looking for.

    IF that's an Alpha version of your deck I kind of like it since you now only have to decide which way your want to go.

    Regards,

  11. #11

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by urzas_ass View Post
    Emrakul so far won me 1 game where if not for him i'll definitely lose. I think its vs soul sister. during the turn I produce 1 mil mana causing him to gain 6 mil life(2 soul warden in play causing him to gain 6 life per 1 mana I produce in 1 cycle). without emrakul's inihilator and infinite turn. Ill probably lose the next 2 - 3 turns. And so far Emrakul is the best and deserving guy to spend the million mana this deck produce in 1 turn..

    so far Im in tight budget thats why im in modern I find difficulty assembling the elves for legacy. I'm thorn between blue and black splash.. I'm liking the potential control of the black but right now I see my deck leaning into U because my initial mana base is U splash. I got a play set of breeding pool and I want to test the blue splash first.

    So what will be the best counter suited to the deck..??

    Condescend
    Remand
    Spell Pierce

    edit : Curio is still the best combo enabler in the deck but I dont think we need fabricate. a play set curio is enough for me. Seeing more than 1 copy is annoying but sometimes it worth it. besides, the deck really dont rely on curio that much because it can go aggro or go with beck.
    Your best counters depend on your opponent but are:

    Negate and Swan Song - you mostly want to interact with their spells
    followed by Condescend/ Mindbreak Trap - if you want to interact with creatures/ the stack.

    Honorary mentioning: Dispel, Autumn's Veil - if you are just afraid of counters.

    The last two require you to keep more mana open then you usually want to, so they are - strictly speaking - worse.

    Kindly note that you will need fetches for this deck if you want to run it with more success unless the rest of your meta is
    at the same spot and cannot afford more effective bases.
    If you pick those up, You can always spash black as a minor annoyance.

  12. #12

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingMatt View Post
    First of all, you should consider, where your want your deck to be.

    What I intend to say with this sentence is really simple.

    In the current configuration, your deck emulates the "older" Elven Deck which tried to push into an Emrakul Chain.
    Thus it is sort of "all in". To reach that goal, you should want to have as much enablers as possible (a.k.a. Becks).
    Also you are "sort of" short on blue mana, since you cannot statistically provide GU in T3 consistently.

    Also you try two different WinCons in your mainboard which is... suboptimal.
    While I would understand 1 Hoof alongside one Force (or two Hoofs) you go for 1 Emrakul, 2 Hoofs and 1 Force.

    This (and Ezuri as mana sink) suggest a more grindy game approach.

    Kindly note that there is A LOT OF creature removal in this format and you might want to redesign into a more
    grindy design after testing.

    Now having said that, you already have various good ideas integrated:

    Reclamation Sage MD & Side. Good choice.
    Chords. I would go for a 3 of, maybe even 4 of.
    Reasoning: Since this allows us to get more util AND triggers of Beck, you "could" get more use out of it.
    Personally I would try them as 3 of at first.

    I really like those Scryb Rangers, although the aren't elves.
    They would be even better if we could squeeze in an Elvish Archdruid.

    Like you already said, your SB is all over the place so I will not go there until you decided what version you are
    really looking for.

    IF that's an Alpha version of your deck I kind of like it since you now only have to decide which way your want to go.

    Regards,

    Playing elves without untap effect is really frustrating so scryb ranger is a must. My first deck has a 4-of ranger but seeing multiple in your hand is really annoying sometimes specially if you want more elves in play. I remember a game before I decide to cut it to 2 is a got 3 scryb in hand and an arcdruid in play, archdruid looks like an expensive llanowar elves. 2 -of is good enough for me cause i can access it with my tutors if needed be.


    Beck is not the main enabler for my emrakul. Yes, with luck you can chain into hoof/emrakul, but it's there only because of my attachment to glimpse. If you can see it is only card that needs U in my deck that's how i'm attach to glimpse. But almost all my post board beck is the one to go out. Curio is the main enabler for emrakul. with so many tutors and without much disruption, you can set up unli-mana, unli-draw in 3-5 turns.


    Yes I have two win cons, Those two have their own category. Boat loads of mana and a handful of mana. If you can produce Boat loads of mana emrakul is the much safer and much effective finisher out there but if you can't get to 15 you got to have an access to hoof he is that good that legacy elf abandon emrakul because of him. But because this deck can produce Boat loads of mana as early as turn 3, I cant abandon emrakul. I just really dont trust hoof in combo turn because of so many answer in modern. I feel much safer casting emrakul in combo turn for the finish, and remember if something goes wrong at least emrakul will give you an extra turn to adjust the finishing touch. :)


    I cant remove my 1-of force just yet, because I already experience a trauma removing one of my 1-of utility creature. I remember removing my essence warden and the deck gave me a board where only him can save me from the game. If I can recall correctly, I have nettle,heritage,llanowar and curio in play and two open mana. I have only one tutor and it happen to be chord of calling. I can produce 5 mana and I need a creature that will triger curio for my combo to start. if I used my five mana to get visionary via chord my combo will not go on cause i will be boucing back llanowar and untaping nettle, my board look is composed of untapped neetle, untapped visionary, and tapped heritage. With no mana left I cant cast llanowar for the combo to continue. If I get 1 cmc creature my combo will go on and I will produce an unlimited mana but where can I spend that mana? That moment I realize that my deck gave me a scenario that if you didn't cut the essence warden, he is be the guy to get. get 1 million life and pass the turn. From then on, I make sure there is a space for my utility creatures.


    Its so hard to find a chord of calling before m15 thats why I only have 2. but right now im going to 3 but not 4.


    Every dream scenario in this deck is only possible without much disruption. The deck can still set up combo pieces after 1 or 2 disruption(spot removal,counter, discard) but with heavy disruption the deck really is so weak. Sadly, modern is the format where disruption is all over the place. That's why I want to test counters first. If it didn't mess with the deck I will go B splash and remove beck completely..

  13. #13
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    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    You know that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you have to? You can combo into a Craterhoof, but hold the Hoof until the following turn. You then have 20 guys getting +20/+20. That should cover their lifegain. If you play two Craterhooves, you'd kill them on the combo turn.

    Emrakul and Regal Force are not good cards.

    Playing bad cards because once there was a fringe scenario where they were good is not a good plan. Just slam the most powerful finisher, Craterhoof, and kill them properly. Playing two with Pacts and Beck will get you a win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
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    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
    The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.

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    That's.... that's not how deckbuilding works.

  14. #14

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiJoey View Post
    You know that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you have to? You can combo into a Craterhoof, but hold the Hoof until the following turn. You then have 20 guys getting +20/+20. That should cover their lifegain. If you play two Craterhooves, you'd kill them on the combo turn.

    Emrakul and Regal Force are not good cards.

    Playing bad cards because once there was a fringe scenario where they were good is not a good plan. Just slam the most powerful finisher, Craterhoof, and kill them properly. Playing two with Pacts and Beck will get you a win.

    OK. I dont want to be stubborn and dont accept suggestion just because I love those creature. I can remove them and test it this weekend.

    Do you have any suggestion what would be a nice replacement..??

    Can you post your list..??

  15. #15

    Re: [DECK] Comboing Combo Elves

    I had a bad weekend last week. All the bad match up get worst.

    I change the deck completely.


    19 Lands

    9 Forest
    2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Breeding Pool


    24 Creatures

    2 llanowar elves
    4 arbor elf
    4 elvish visionary
    4 nettle sentinel
    4 heritage druid
    1 ezuri renegade leader
    1 Essence Warden
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Eternal Witnes
    1 Regal Force
    1 CraterHoof Behemoth



    18 Other Spell

    3 Cloudstone Curio
    2 Beck / Call
    2 Lead the Stampede
    3 Summoner's Pact
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Negate



    Lead the stampede is awesome. it can get you back much faster after board wipes or it can gas you up in any situation. Its a 3-of in my previous build but because of my low creature count in this build I decided to go 2.

    I have two sets of counters to test this weekend. I'm planning only to use it to depend my self when setting up for combo finish or against every annoying board wipes except the super annoying Supreme Verdict.


    Suggestion and comments are very appreciated.

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