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Thread: Worst matchup for each deck

  1. #1
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    Worst matchup for each deck

    I'm doing some research on the MTGO meta and I wonder which are THE WORST matchups for each deck, like nigh unwinnable bad. Be specific enough, not just like "Deck X loses to counters."

    Feel free to contribute match-ups and/or other decks to the list:

    RUG Delver

    BUG Delver

    UWR Delver

    Goblins

    Shardless BUG

    Jund

    Maverick

    D&T - Elves

    Miracles

    Esperblade

    Deathblade

    4x Lands/Loam Control

    12 Post

    Burn

    Belcher

    Oops! All Spells!

    Painter

    Elves

    Storm

    Reanimator

    Sneak & Show - D&T

    Omnitell
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  2. #2
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    RUG Delver - Pox
    BUG Delver - Merfolk or Burn?
    UWR Delver - Lands
    Goblins - Zoo
    Shardless BUG - Elves or Merfolk
    Jund - Burn or Omni/Sneak Attack (with Leyline)
    Maverick - Belcher or Miracles
    D&T - Belcher or Elves
    Miracles - 12-Post
    Esperblade - 12-Post
    Deathblade - Jund?
    4x Lands/Loam Control - High Tide
    12-Post - Pox
    Burn - Reanimator or any Show and Tell strategy with Leylines
    Belcher - Reanimator
    Oops! All Spells! - Reanimator
    Painter - Burn or Goblins
    Elves - Reanimator
    Storm - Team America or Dragon Stompy
    Reanimator - Miracles
    Sneak & Show - Death and Taxes
    Omnitell - UWR Delver (Edit: changed to Reanimator, after noticing someone else's response)
    Dredge - B/W Helm Combo

    The Delver strategies pretty much don't have an "unwinnable matchup" because the combination of tempo counters, mana denial, and a blistering fast clock will ensure you're at least in every game.
    Last edited by lordofthepit; 07-23-2014 at 12:56 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Reanimator's worst matchup is probably BUG / Deathblade. Deathrite Shaman, counter magic, Thoughtseize and often Lilly main let them interact with you in every zone, and can lock you out from ever really being "in it" fairly often. Post board, many of them also have access to either Scavenging Ooze, Surgical Extraction, or both. Miracles probably was the deck's worst matchup, but then they cut their best card in RIP from the main for some reason and went down to like, two on the board. In the past year, Miracles has gotten much easier for reanimator pilots that know the matchup, so BUGx gets my vote for current nemesis, with Maverick close behind.
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Yeah, I forgot about Belcher for D&T. That's an abyssal match-up for D&T as well.

    Doesn't Shardless really struggle against Painter with all those moon effects, too?
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  5. #5
    nidubuild
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    RUG Delver -> Pox ?
    BUG Delver -> Elves !
    UWR Delver -> ?
    Goblins -> Oops all spells - If good combo/gravehate sideboard then it's probably a Pfire deck.
    Shardless BUG -> Burn !
    Jund -> ?
    Maverick -> ?
    D&T -> Elves
    Miracles -> Cloudpost !
    Esperblade -> Cloudpost !
    Deathblade -> ?
    4x Lands/Loam Control -> Omnitell
    12-Post -> Pox ?
    Burn -> Reanimator
    Belcher -> Reanimator
    Oops! All Spells! -> BUG Delver or reanimator
    Painter -> Omnitell !
    Elves -> Reanimator or some Pfire control
    Storm -> MUD
    Reanimator -> BUG Tempo ?
    Sneak & Show -> Death and taxes !
    Omnitell -> Reanimator !
    Dredge -> Miracles helm ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Duke
    I believe there may be a very powerful Storm list out there, and it's possible that the best list of Storm is the best deck in Legacy.
    When a combo addict and dedicated legacy player tries out M13 sealed

  6. #6
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldslayer View Post
    Reanimator's worst matchup is probably BUG / Deathblade. Deathrite Shaman, counter magic, Thoughtseize and often Lilly main let them interact with you in every zone, and can lock you out from ever really being "in it" fairly often. Post board, many of them also have access to either Scavenging Ooze, Surgical Extraction, or both. Miracles probably was the deck's worst matchup, but then they cut their best card in RIP from the main for some reason and went down to like, two on the board. In the past year, Miracles has gotten much easier for reanimator pilots that know the matchup, so BUGx gets my vote for current nemesis, with Maverick close behind.
    Maveric due to DRS/Ooze? I don't know, they normally switch to the S&T plan post-board. D&T also has decent game against Reanimator.

    Is it the Monogreen or the UG variant that does well versus various control decks like Miracles or doesn't it really matter that much?
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    RUG Delver - Dredge, Nic Fit, 4c Loam, maybe pox? With the "typical" SB, Id vote Dredge.

    BUG Delver - Burn

    UWR Delver - ???

    Goblins - Deathblade, Zoo, Reanimtor, Belcher/Allspells. They are all terrible.

    Shardless BUG - Painter or Burn or S&T. Probably Burn being the worse.

    Jund - Burn, Painter or S&T. S&T probably the worst.

    Maverick - Miracles or Belcher

    D&T - Elves or Jund

    Miracles - 12 Post, then Goblins

    Esperblade - 12 Post

    Deathblade - Burn. Then, Shardless BUG or Jund.

    4x Lands/Loam Control - ??? High Tide makes a lot of sense to me. I also know this MU always feels super easy with Miracles.

    12 Post - ??? Omnitell, or pox maybe? Depending on the build/SB, reanimtor or storm might be tough too

    Burn - Belcher/All spells/Storm/Reanimator

    Belcher - ??? Not sure what the actual WORST matchup is. Maybe Team America? Daze, discard, FoW, AND null rod/pneedle AND golgari charm.

    Oops! All Spells! - Miracles or anything that runs leyline of the void

    Painter - Burn???

    Elves - Esperblade, Jund or Reanimator

    Storm - MUD, Miracles, Team America

    Reanimator - Miracles

    Sneak & Show - D&T or Reanimator

    Omnitell - ??? This always feels really easy with Miracles

    High Tide - ??? Again, this always feels really easy with Miracles

    Dredge - Miracles or Reanimator

    Affinity - Nic Fit or DeedStill

    Nic Fit - Show and Tell, 12 Post or MUD

    Merfolk - Goblins

    MUD - ???

  8. #8

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    12 Post hates playing against storm. More than half of the sideboard is designed to fight this matchup.

  9. #9
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    I think BUG delver is definitely merfolk or elves

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    RUG Delver - Dredge or Pox, but I suspect that Pox is just too slow for it to be that bad

    BUG Delver - Merfolk or Burn

    UWR Delver - I've never played this deck, and only played against it with Shardless BUG and BUG Control. It sure feels lopsided from Shardless's perspective.

    Goblins - Belcher or Oops! All Spells!

    Shardless BUG - Without MD Deluge, Painter or D&T. With Deluge, Burn or Painter

    Jund - Lands?

    Maverick - Miracles or Glass Cannon combo (Belcher, Oops...)

    D&T - Elves

    Miracles - 12-Post

    Esperblade - 12-Post

    Deathblade - Probably Shardless BUG or Jund, though I can't imagine Pox or RUG Delver is particularly good.

    4x Lands/Loam Control - High Tide or Miracles

    12 Post - RUG Delver or Storm

    Burn - Fast combo

    Belcher - BUG Delver

    Oops! All Spells! - BUG Delver

    Painter - Burn? Enchantress has a pretty good matchup here, too.

    Elves - Miracles

    Storm - BUG Delver, MUD

    Reanimator - Miracles

    Sneak & Show - D&T

    Omnitell - MUD, BUG Delver, Miracles

    BUG Control - Loam Pox

    Enchantress - Omnitell

  11. #11
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    I think you play Deathblade to beat RUG Delver honestly. Isn't that the point of any blade deck?

  12. #12

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    MUD - ???
    Some form of Delver. Probably BUG, but they're all pretty rough.

  13. #13
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    MUD - ???
    I think Maverick-style decks are rough for MUD. They have plenty of Qasali Pridemage effects, relevant hatebears, reasonable ramp, Wastelands, and can easily get under Ensnaring Bridge with something like Noble Hierarch.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by HSCK View Post
    I think you play Deathblade to beat RUG Delver honestly. Isn't that the point of any blade deck?
    I could easily be wrong. I don't generally play either Blade or RUG, but attacking Deathblade's mana just seems so good.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    I think Maverick-style decks are rough for MUD. They have plenty of Qasali Pridemage effects, relevant hatebears, reasonable ramp, Wastelands, and can easily get under Ensnaring Bridge with something like Noble Hierarch.
    I forgot about Maverick. Ya, that might be a tough one for MUD. Delver isn't so bad. Infact, MUD is probably even favored if it doesn't lose to its own draws. Basically ever card they cast is a must answer for delver and sticking a wurmcoil ends the game.

    Deathblade is definitely favored over RUG. And a good elves player with a recent list vs a good miracles with a recent list, its almost 50/50. Miracles is probably still favored, but its very slight. Elves has adapted a lot lately to beat that deck. It has a much harder time with stuff cheap effective removal like stp and ZP followed up by Jitte and backed up with counters. I agree with your other statements though, btm.

  16. #16

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by btm10 View Post
    I could easily be wrong. I don't generally play either Blade or RUG, but attacking Deathblade's mana just seems so good.
    I play a lot of RUG and if you play against the normal variant of death blade (with no basics) I would call the match up even. You sometimes waste stifle then bolt deathrite and win other times they go first and they play deathrite on turn 1 and win off the fact you never get to functionally deny mana.
    If they play basics you almost can't win
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  17. #17
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Lejay View Post
    Elves -> Reanimator or some Pfire control
    Reanimator is a good suggestion, but what do you mean by Pfire control? Miracles, Jund? Jund is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    Elves - Esperblade, Jund or Reanimator
    Esperblade and Jund shouldn't be in there.


    For my votes:

    Elves - Reanimator, LED Dredge. Miracles, Storm, UWR Delver are all unfavourable but can be fought. Those two are just abysmal though, LED Dredge especially. Everything Elves does is just too slow and/or too small. Against reanimator stuff is just slow but at least your gravehate works.

    Storm - Reanimator. Faster combo deck with Force = sad times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  18. #18

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    For Uwr delver the worst matchup is Pox and not Lands. Lands is still winnable with a very fast start

    Reanimator worst matchup is not Miracles is UWR delver.

  19. #19
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Manaless Dredge - G2 & G3 vs. anything with a good SB

  20. #20
    nidubuild
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Reanimator is a good suggestion, but what do you mean by Pfire control? Miracles, Jund? Jund is fine.
    Pfire control doesn't mean a punishing fire deck OR a control deck. It means a control deck playing punishing fire. Not really established archetypes but I have seen several times grixis or rug pfire control decklists.
    Nic fit decks with Pfire could also enter that category depending on the decklist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Duke
    I believe there may be a very powerful Storm list out there, and it's possible that the best list of Storm is the best deck in Legacy.
    When a combo addict and dedicated legacy player tries out M13 sealed

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