I am not saying it can't win, I am saying there are better choices. That yes, you can win with Dredge, Goblins and Nic Fit but that your better service with another option and say what you like, your not showing up with Dredge because you think it's the best deck in the room. That goes for double now thanks to Delve.
There is a video of Feline being interviewed after she won an event. The question is asked "What made you think High tide was well placed for the meta" (not word for word) to which she answered to the effect of "I didn't, I wanted to play it so I did."
I see. Let me amplify my reply, then.
I play Dredge because in my hands, I believe it is the best deck in the room. I believe it gives the best chance for me to win. Considering since GPDC last year, I'm running over 70% match win, and over 80% in the last few months, there not much that could convince me otherwise.
You can go ahead and put Burn on the board as Painter's worst matchup. It's awful. AWFUL.
OmniTell's worst isn't quite as definitive, but is probably Reanimator.
Death and Taxes worst matchup is Elves. I think that one is pretty set.
That's all I'm really qualified to offer an opinion on.
any chance you have had time to compile the data into something like the format of the OP?
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There are a lot of MUs which are harder than miracle for elves. TES, Tinfins, reanimator, OOPs all spells, drege, S&T, chalice+PFire+loam.deck and belcher for examples.
But if you ask me the worst MU for elves, it is miracle. Because we play often against it, while the aforementioned decks are, even together, very rare.
So miracle is a bad AND played MU, so that's the worst :) .
With the same idea, I will argue with anyone saying that any deck worst MU is reanimator (which have a very bad MU against very played decks such as D&T or BUG).
You're thinking of a representative worst matchup as opposed to a regular worst matchup.
By that I mean take a look at the following links for Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fig...rike#Tier-list
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fig...tive_Tier-list
Having said that, then I can definitely conclude that Sneak and Show is the worst representative matchup for Nic Fit.
I would say that Dredge is the worst MU for almost 80% of legacy.
Your personal problems, though I can't imagine how you're having problems with Dredge as Elves and why a lack of Cage would be relevant, have no bearing on the general format's ability (or inability) to defeat Dredge. The boast was, effectively, that dredge had an 80% win rate. The fact is, ignoring that general strategies such as "beat with Delver" still work, that any given deck runs anywhere from three to five dedicated pieces of graveyard hate for reasons completely unrelated to Dredge, about 40% of the format runs Deathrite Shaman mainboard, and Dredge is unable to race or interact with a large swath of the meta.
Dredge was the worst matchup for 80% of the Legacy meta before Deathrite Shaman entered the scene. At this point with real main list GY hate present in the meta Dredge only wins game 1 two-thirds of the time and then they have dismal chances in games two and three.
That's the best argument for banning DRS. It squats on the GY heavily and invalidates almost all archetypes that want to abuse the GY. In so doing it restricts the meta to a much narrower space than it otherwise would occupy. You could make the same argument for Tarmogoyf and aggro weenie strategies, which have largely disappeared from the meta, Combo Elves being the exception and also being a combo list not an aggro weenie list.
They have a 2x able to interact.
They have to get it both games.
They have to get it without mull into oblivion.
You have to not win on turn one.
You have to not get solution.
You have to not get Cabal Theraphy.
So im ok about game 2 and 3 to be honest.
Uh, so many of the things you said about Dredge are actually untrue.
Elves does not have a nice MU against Dredge, they have a really hard time facing Firestorm and a way faster combo.
Not every deck runs much grave hate atm, most comboes trade it for anti hate cards, RiP decks most likely have only 1/2 rip (if not deathbalde obv)
You can win under deathrite shaman A LOT of times, pretty much always otp.
You win game 1 like 80 to 90% of the times vs meta decks.
Actually game 2 may be harsh, but you have the advantage in game 3.
PS: Ofc we are talking about LED Dredge, not about suboptimal lists.
Stop disseminating false information about DRS's strength against Dredge, and the other bad info in posts, too, FoolofaTook. The site is used as a Legacy Bible for many, and less informed statements presented as facts distract from that mission, especially as prophet posts are given no more forum weight than madman posts.
And Zombie, you play Elves, and you're complaining about times being rough for you and your deck?
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
This. DRS is evil vs. stuff like reanimator and Past in Flames which require key cards, or stuff that needs to recur for value. LED Dredge can just dump so many targets into the bin you can never remove them before T3 with DRS/Ooze*, and that's all that's needed. After that there's nothing you can do but race (they're faster by a turn or a turn and a half) or hope they're incompetent and screw up. T2 Ooze is literally just too slow OTD. On the play, maybe. But that's a pretty big maybe. I play against Flayer LED Dredge every damn week and it's not fun.
*Besides which DRS can't do shit vs. Bridges, which are the thing that kills you.
Originally Posted by Lemnear
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