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Thread: Worst matchup for each deck

  1. #81
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Both Dredge and ReAnimator's worst matchups are their opponent's sideboards.
    No arguement here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    People take notice of Dredge winning for the same reason people take notice of Goblins, Maverick and Nic Fit winning. These are decks who's time in the sun has come and gone. Those that still hold onto them tend to do so more for emotional reasons than an honest belief that the deck is well placed in the meta. That is why it's a pet deck. Not because it can be hated out, but because the people that play them tend to do so for emotional reasons instead of meta ones.
    I play with it becuase I like to win.
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    I am not saying it can't win, I am saying there are better choices. That yes, you can win with Dredge, Goblins and Nic Fit but that your better service with another option and say what you like, your not showing up with Dredge because you think it's the best deck in the room. That goes for double now thanks to Delve.

    There is a video of Feline being interviewed after she won an event. The question is asked "What made you think High tide was well placed for the meta" (not word for word) to which she answered to the effect of "I didn't, I wanted to play it so I did."
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    I see. Let me amplify my reply, then.

    I play Dredge because in my hands, I believe it is the best deck in the room. I believe it gives the best chance for me to win. Considering since GPDC last year, I'm running over 70% match win, and over 80% in the last few months, there not much that could convince me otherwise.
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Both Dredge and ReAnimator's worst matchups are their opponent's sideboards.
    In my short time playing Reanimator, I quickly learned that part of the sideboarding strategy is basically "If it is possible for them to board in GY hate, I have to board in Show and Tell"
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  5. #85

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    You can go ahead and put Burn on the board as Painter's worst matchup. It's awful. AWFUL.

    OmniTell's worst isn't quite as definitive, but is probably Reanimator.

    Death and Taxes worst matchup is Elves. I think that one is pretty set.

    That's all I'm really qualified to offer an opinion on.

  6. #86

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    You can go ahead and put Burn on the board as Painter's worst matchup. It's awful. AWFUL.

    OmniTell's worst isn't quite as definitive, but is probably Reanimator.

    Death and Taxes worst matchup is Elves. I think that one is pretty set.

    That's all I'm really qualified to offer an opinion on.
    Which version of painter are we talking about? I'd imagine R/W has some outs against burn.

    But it can't be as miserable as Jund's burn matchup I can't imagine anything worse than that.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    any chance you have had time to compile the data into something like the format of the OP?
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    A lot of people are saying Miracles is elves worst matchup. As a miracles player, I do not think this could be the case. Unless your terrible with elves (which a lot of people are) or you are playing some outdated/budget version, the matchup is at best 55% in miracles favor. Reanimator, esper or UWR stoneblade are far tougher for elves in my experience.
    There are a lot of MUs which are harder than miracle for elves. TES, Tinfins, reanimator, OOPs all spells, drege, S&T, chalice+PFire+loam.deck and belcher for examples.
    But if you ask me the worst MU for elves, it is miracle. Because we play often against it, while the aforementioned decks are, even together, very rare.
    So miracle is a bad AND played MU, so that's the worst :) .

    With the same idea, I will argue with anyone saying that any deck worst MU is reanimator (which have a very bad MU against very played decks such as D&T or BUG).

  9. #89
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    There are a lot of MUs which are harder than miracle for elves. TES, Tinfins, reanimator, OOPs all spells, drege, S&T, chalice+PFire+loam.deck and belcher for examples.
    But if you ask me the worst MU for elves, it is miracle. Because we play often against it, while the aforementioned decks are, even together, very rare.
    So miracle is a bad AND played MU, so that's the worst :) .

    With the same idea, I will argue with anyone saying that any deck worst MU is reanimator (which have a very bad MU against very played decks such as D&T or BUG).
    You're thinking of a representative worst matchup as opposed to a regular worst matchup.

    By that I mean take a look at the following links for Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike

    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fig...rike#Tier-list

    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fig...tive_Tier-list

    Having said that, then I can definitely conclude that Sneak and Show is the worst representative matchup for Nic Fit.

  10. #90

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    I would say that Dredge is the worst MU for almost 80% of legacy.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    I would say that Dredge is the worst MU for almost 80% of legacy.
    What about games two and three?

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    What about games two and three?
    There is such a thing as sideboard space, and more played matchups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    There is such a thing as sideboard space, and more played matchups.
    Dredge hate is pretty versatile. It's not like Cage and Rest in Peace only interact with Dredge and not other graveyard strategies.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by btm10 View Post
    Dredge hate is pretty versatile. It's not like Cage and Rest in Peace only interact with Dredge and not other graveyard strategies.
    I'd need to splash a color and can't play Cage. I mean, I could just play a blue deck and get to play those I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    I'd need to splash a color and can't play Cage. I mean, I could just play a blue deck and get to play those I guess.
    Your personal problems, though I can't imagine how you're having problems with Dredge as Elves and why a lack of Cage would be relevant, have no bearing on the general format's ability (or inability) to defeat Dredge. The boast was, effectively, that dredge had an 80% win rate. The fact is, ignoring that general strategies such as "beat with Delver" still work, that any given deck runs anywhere from three to five dedicated pieces of graveyard hate for reasons completely unrelated to Dredge, about 40% of the format runs Deathrite Shaman mainboard, and Dredge is unable to race or interact with a large swath of the meta.

  16. #96

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Dredge was the worst matchup for 80% of the Legacy meta before Deathrite Shaman entered the scene. At this point with real main list GY hate present in the meta Dredge only wins game 1 two-thirds of the time and then they have dismal chances in games two and three.

    That's the best argument for banning DRS. It squats on the GY heavily and invalidates almost all archetypes that want to abuse the GY. In so doing it restricts the meta to a much narrower space than it otherwise would occupy. You could make the same argument for Tarmogoyf and aggro weenie strategies, which have largely disappeared from the meta, Combo Elves being the exception and also being a combo list not an aggro weenie list.

  17. #97

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    What about games two and three?
    They have a 2x able to interact.
    They have to get it both games.
    They have to get it without mull into oblivion.
    You have to not win on turn one.
    You have to not get solution.
    You have to not get Cabal Theraphy.

    So im ok about game 2 and 3 to be honest.

    Uh, so many of the things you said about Dredge are actually untrue.
    Elves does not have a nice MU against Dredge, they have a really hard time facing Firestorm and a way faster combo.
    Not every deck runs much grave hate atm, most comboes trade it for anti hate cards, RiP decks most likely have only 1/2 rip (if not deathbalde obv)
    You can win under deathrite shaman A LOT of times, pretty much always otp.
    You win game 1 like 80 to 90% of the times vs meta decks.

    Actually game 2 may be harsh, but you have the advantage in game 3.

    PS: Ofc we are talking about LED Dredge, not about suboptimal lists.

  18. #98

    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Stop disseminating false information about DRS's strength against Dredge, and the other bad info in posts, too, FoolofaTook. The site is used as a Legacy Bible for many, and less informed statements presented as facts distract from that mission, especially as prophet posts are given no more forum weight than madman posts.

    And Zombie, you play Elves, and you're complaining about times being rough for you and your deck?

  19. #99
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by LOLWut View Post
    Stop disseminating false information about DRS's strength against Dredge, and the other bad info in posts, too, FoolofaTook. The site is used as a Legacy Bible for many, and less informed statements presented as facts distract from that mission, especially as prophet posts are given no more forum weight than madman posts.

    And Zombie, you play Elves, and you're complaining about times being rough for you and your deck?
    Amen to this. Lately it's been difficult to tell which is which around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Dredge was the worst matchup for 80% of the Legacy meta before Deathrite Shaman entered the scene. At this point with real main list GY hate present in the meta Dredge only wins game 1 two-thirds of the time and then they have dismal chances in games two and three.

    That's the best argument for banning DRS. It squats on the GY heavily and invalidates almost all archetypes that want to abuse the GY. In so doing it restricts the meta to a much narrower space than it otherwise would occupy. You could make the same argument for Tarmogoyf and aggro weenie strategies, which have largely disappeared from the meta, Combo Elves being the exception and also being a combo list not an aggro weenie list.
    I think Terminus is actually to blame for that. And Batterskull/SFM to some degree.
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    Re: Worst matchup for each deck

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Elves does not have a nice MU against Dredge, they have a really hard time facing Firestorm and a way faster combo.
    You can win under deathrite shaman A LOT of times, pretty much always otp.
    This. DRS is evil vs. stuff like reanimator and Past in Flames which require key cards, or stuff that needs to recur for value. LED Dredge can just dump so many targets into the bin you can never remove them before T3 with DRS/Ooze*, and that's all that's needed. After that there's nothing you can do but race (they're faster by a turn or a turn and a half) or hope they're incompetent and screw up. T2 Ooze is literally just too slow OTD. On the play, maybe. But that's a pretty big maybe. I play against Flayer LED Dredge every damn week and it's not fun.

    *Besides which DRS can't do shit vs. Bridges, which are the thing that kills you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

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