I was playing Pithing needle in my deck for some years now. Very useful :)Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
I think this is precisely why Teferi was chosen as a Planesmander. He's such an Original Gangsta that he can lead the 99.
Anyways... it's a good time for pilots of Superfriends.
By the way, my initial reaction was similar to yours. Although I immediately felt better after reading the Teferi thread on mtgcommander. If the RC was aware of this and thinks it is fine, then it can't be all that bad. They wouldn't be so nonchalant if these cards were going to ruin the format they are in charge of.
Is it time to start including Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker in EDH?
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with Jaya Ballard!
Also I have deck specifically against commander centered decks. Some people do the mistake that everything is turning around the commander... so...:
Meddling mage
Declaration of Naught
Hinder
Condemn
Spell crumple
Spin into myth
and much much more cards... Most of them is against creatures, so if this Teferi the Planesmander is not on radar.
Anyways, original Teferi was always know as "combo protector" but having him as a Commander had few issues. Teferi as a planeswalker can be used as a integral part of combo deck. My mono-U Teferi deck is quite good example how to archieve it...
...the advance of computerisation, however, has not yet wiped out nations and ethnic groups...
Dreadbore is one of my favorite cards.
However, I often have trouble reconciling spot removal in an EDH deck save unique circumstances. Like, playing Kaalia and clearing the maybe-one-or-two flyers out of the way with StP/PtE before swinging is a good play, IMHO.
I dunno, I'm always the guy to say the cards need a chance to breathe before things are declared totally fuckered up. It's honestly pretty surprising to me just how few people are nerd raged about this change, so it kind of gives me pause and prompts me to evaluate my reaction.
The thing is -- EDH is more or less my primary home now, because that's the format that gets played around here (that and Modern, which is like - bitch please, I just had a baby, I'm not buying those high dollar staples until Nebraska weather figures out how to rain diapers). And it appeals to me because of its unique rules, so messing with them is a bit like changing a fundamental rule of 'regular' Magic - it makes me a bit wary. Like, one would not want to see something like a Mountain with "T: 1 dmg to target creature/player" and then text below it saying "-this- counts as a basic land" - it's *not* basic, it has a bloody ability, how can it be basic? So wait I get to put as many as I want in the deck now and search for them with Evolving Wilds and all kinds of Green spells? Sweeeeeeeet
So yeah, knee jerk reaction is jerky, I guess. vOv
From what I've read, each mono-colored pre-con will have an old school planeswalker that can be used as the Commander. They will also each have a legendary creature from that time period of Magic who never saw print on a card.
The best speculative list I saw was by Aggro_Zombies on MTGSal (although when I try to find it now it shows his most recent post was in February??).
Serra
Teferi
Leshrac or Tevesh
Jaya
Freylise
He had the most likely candidates for the legendary creatures too, but since I never read any of the lore I am lucky to have remembered the 5 I did...
Edit: Found it! It was on MTG Commander (damn, Aggro_Zombies really gets around).
EH, spot removal definitely has it's place in an EDH deck, but I get where you're coming from. I don't think this change makes it necessary to play RB or whatever to remove the busted planesmander or whatever...combat damage will work just fine.
Every spoiler season WotC does something to ruin the game according to the collective minds of the internet. Usually the vitriol is reserved for Type 2 because that's the format for whining 12 year olds, but as commander gets more and more popular WotC is starting to meddle with that too. Bottom line is there are lots of people out there who have been waiting for this exact thing, and if that means more commander players at the LGS on Wednesday nights, I'm all for it.
I'm right there with you. EDH is really the only constructed format that interests me these days - maybe that means I'm getting old or something, but whatever. As such, I'm much further into the "play what makes you happy" camp than I was a year ago. Maybe the planesmanders are busted in half, and you win games with it. Let's shuffle up for another.
The beauty of multiplayer magic is that it corrects itself. People remember your crazy "-10 my Teferi, resolve Stasis and Karn, pass" turn last week...so you can bet you're not getting there this week. Besides, if this whole thing turns out to be a terrible idea we all know the rules committee isn't afraid to swing the banhammer.
As it is, I don't find Teferi all that inspiring...but it sounds like it's exactly what Offler was looking for, so good on him. Maybe some of the others will be more interesting to me...but until we see them I'm still firmly in the "nice gimick" camp.
I've played in groups that allowed Planeswalkers as generals pretty much since EDH got big around Alara/Zendikar, and honestly it's not busted at all. It's not like decks don't play Planeswalkers as it is, and since every EDH deck contains a ton of tutors and draw/deck manipulation it's not unusual to see one every game. None of the ones we tested were busted, not even JtmS, LotV, or Karn, because the fundamental rules of the multiplayer "big deck" games make walkers comparatively weak. Every deck has ways to pressure or kill them outright, they don't generate a big advantage the turn they come out, and the prospect of "waiting" on your Planeswalker to really generate a swing is laughable in the face of combo decks.
fact of the matter is, if you're competitive EDH has basically become Vintage without power. Decks almost always contain a combo as the kill condition, are filled with redundancy and disruption and tutors, and are generally capable of ending the game very early. If you're not competitive, you have a cool format with big plays and swingy mechanics and long, grindy games where everyone's exchanging haymakers. In neither of these situations are Planeswalkers too good, so just let people have their fun and do what they want, and find a group that matches how you want to play.
I call bullshit because none of his abilities involve phasing.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Pretty much this and all the other points you've made.
Basically they made a useless thing that brings new mess and is really pushed, etc., etc. Why they cannot think about more important things than this kind of needless stuff like Legendary Planeswalker Trap Enchantment Monster Arcane Settlement - Jace on Lili in Shower.
Bah.
This is the best advice I've seen on a commander related forum in a long time. So much of the whining and calls for banning X card for being "too good" would be solved if more people subscribed to this kind of thinking.
Jokes aside, something like:
+1: Target permanent an opponent controls gains phasing until your next turn (or something similar) would actually be kind of neat. You could play politics with it by phasing their commander or whatever and pulling the trigger on an Evacuation, or delay some big fatty from swinging at your face for a turn. I don't think that would be too oppressive either since the thing wouldn't phase back in until after you phased something else out, so you're not putting their dude on permanent lockdown or anything. Of course the problem with that is explaining phasing to the rest of the kitchen table crowd...so I can see why they left it off.
Phasing really isn't anymore complicated than something like Detain, instead of your creature being "in jail" until my next turn, it just went out for a pack of cigarettes. It'll be back, don't worry.
Yeah, I totally agree...but trust me, I've had to explain actions and effects that are way simpler than phasing (which ain't even hard).
I play Vanishing.
I have to explain that it works like:
So it triggers enter/leave battlefield? Are the creatures affected by summ sickness?
- Phased out permanent does not leave battlefield. Phased out is state of the object similar to "tapped".
- When phased out, the permanents are treated like they are not on the battlefield.
When the phase-in/out occurs?
- Permanents phase in before untap step
But when you activate Vanishing it goes to graveyard
- Vanishing and all auras or equipments phase out with the permanent they are attached to
Just guess how many times was judge called :)
Something more on topic...
I was more like annoyed by presence of Gods in last standard sets. Most skilled players actually dont need them to turn into creature. It was quite interesting trick how to smuggle enchantment into position of commander.
I agree that line "you may play this planeswalker as your commander" is something different. This is the way how Magic worked for me. They came with something not usual and it may be impressive in the play.
...the advance of computerisation, however, has not yet wiped out nations and ethnic groups...
I don't really understand all the negativity. I feel like having a planeswalker as a general is just worse than having a legendary creature as a general unless you are the most pillow-forty pillow-fort deck in the history of the game, especially with how much creatures have been power crept these days. If your metagame is Vintage Lite, the planeswalkers will likely be too slow to compete with Tier I generals. If your metagame is a hypothetical midrange casual paradise, there should be enough random creatures lying around to keep you off the ultimate unless you're taking a bunch of extra turns in a row or cheating with Doubling Season.
Very few people (if any at all) are arguing that Teferi will be overpowered general. Some people (including me) argue that it's an ugly idea with little to none elegance. What I especially dislike is WotC's continuous twiddling with a format that's kinda "stand alone" thing, and the fact that they exploit it via "Buy us!" products that include hideously designed cards.
Magic definitely needed more Delvers, Oloros and Teferis. /sarcasm
Man, no wonder people call EDH "that cry-babies format"!
I don't cry because of EDH, I cry because of shitty design...Man, no wonder people call EDH "that cry-babies format"!
I fully support the mothership dipping their hand into the EDH pool with new cards as it brings new people into the format and helps me to improve my decks and/or make some new brew. That said, I think they let things slide a little more than they might with a standard legal release because this isn't a sanctioned format that the DCI ever has to worry about trying to rein in. By and large though, they haven't printed anything that's been too far over the line yet. Oloro is close, but honestly you can really hose that deck if that's what you want to do.
This whole planesmander thing isn't going to ruin anything, so let the people that have wanted it all along have their fun. Who knows, maybe one of the other ones is more interesting than Teferi...
Yeah, so, I've been slowly talking myself out of my dislike for this idea, because I certainly run my share of commanders-as-spells already.
The biggest offender in my personal arsenal is probably Sedris, the Traitor King. In concert with that degenerate Deadeye Navigator and an assortment of other effects, it also lives in the same colors as the best draw and tutors in the format. This has been my go-to "eff this table" combo deck for a while (though it can also play fair and just reanimate guys/Unearth guys, but ultimately it leans on Mike-Trike or Palinchron+DEN for 10^43 Grixis mana and then durpings of a variety of things), so I can't complain like "urrrr planeswalkers are just their +1 abils lulz your Teferi commander is Sleight of Mind" because those kinds of commanders are all over the place.
As for existing infrastructure around commanders - think about how even though Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots gets printed in these sets, mass removal is still arguably the go-to answer for problem creatures and/or commanders. By printing a run of walkers that fit in the commander slot, it puts emphasis on a different kind of removal, and just as well - the creatures in the format will be keeping the walkers in check. At the very least, they'll be commanders that don't happen to also fold to every Wrath variant under the sun. As for obvious nonbos like Opal Palace - well just maybe don't play that, right? I wouldn't play Light of Day in a Vish Kal deck, what makes Opal Palace not subject to the same scrutiny?
So yeah, I'm trending towards neutral on this set's premise. It'll be interesting to be how the mono-colored nature affects the supplemental product, especially the mana production; obviously there will be no Command Tower in this set, it would be senseless. Sol Ring, probably? Medallions, meh... Monoliths? Caged Sun? Extraplanar Lens? Hmm.
There are what, 1500 cards printed annualy? Isn't that enough space to... make and use some space? I hardly believe there's a need for such ugly design features like planeswalkers, transform cards, transform planeswalkers cards and such.
But then again I'm from that really conservative and old part of MtG subculture that welcomed return to pre-6th rules of combat dmg, I despised the glued-in PWs and I had a very strange feelings about hybrid mana (but strangely: I never felt annoyed by Phyrexian mana) as it removed part of the purity that the there once was, the quantum of Magic that is metered in W, U, B, R, G and nothing in between.
Oh well, shit happens. Seriously I'd love to not look like a fanatic hater of Teferi (and everything new), I mostly don't care about it. Magic design went so far over the years and there's so much balast, mistakes and ugly features that in the world of thousands crap-cards in 27 different frames, one shouldn't worry about anything.
Bye.
After 20 years of designing cards they're bound to come up with a few gimicks like flip cards, split spells, and even planeswalkers as commanders. There are only so many variations of Lightning Bolt you can print before people get bored, and stuff like this keeps the product moving out of the store.
Like it or not, all of the changes to the rules and the gimicky cards have made this game we play more popular than ever. I guess that means they must be doing something right.
Ftfy, though not nearly as snarkily as it might appear. Let us not conflate the terms, however correlated they may appear :)
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