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Thread: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

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    [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)





    I have played Grixis delver variants after I saw Eric Rills list 2013-09-1 at SCG Cincinatti
    I loved that list and played it a good while myself. -link-
    However After printing Deathrite Shaman , and Shortly after True-Name Nemesis, The list lost lots of its edge. People Started packing Zealous Persecutions , Golgari Charms and Toxic Deluges. Deck evolved into two different ways. ”Spy Kids” -Link- and DRS Grixis, the deck this thread is about.






    Core of the Deck // Card choices:

    -creatures

    4 Deathrite Shaman – One of the best cards in deck. Every ability is relevant. Great card , I wouldnt cut it under any circumstances.

    4 Delver of secrets – 1 Mana 3/2 flier. Awesome. Auto Include.

    2-4 True-Name Nemesis – Not best home for True-Name nemesis, but its still Crazy good and does exactly what you want it to do.

    2-4 flex creature slots:

    Tombstalker – Resolved Tombstalker is close to impossible to beat for some decks. Its awesome against BUG-delver since Abrupt decay doesnt hit it! Its Relatively cheap to cast, huge 5/5 flying body can block or close games in fast fashion.

    Dark Confidant – Good choice for combo heavy metagame. While force of will seems sketchy with it, having Ponder, Brainstorm , Deathrite Shaman , Delver of secrets + fetch lands with it. You can minimize the damage it deals to you when needed. Totally runs away with games when not dealt with.

    Vendilion Clique – good creature . Gives 3/1 Body with flash and flying , disruption and information. Its Legendary and usually 1-Off if played.

    Grim Lavamancer – This card is insane vs Elves, Merfolk or Death and Taxes! Can be played in main or Sideboard. Sadly doesnt go too well with Tombstalker.

    Snapcaster Mage – possible in especially more burn heavy versions.

    Young Pyromancer – its played in ”Spy Kids” lists. Its good there when built around. However its not that great if other card choices dont support him. This deck has currently moved away from it.

    -Spells

    4 Brainstorm – Maybe best card in legacy. Makes your deck do what you want it to do.

    4 Ponder – You cant run more than 4 Brainstorm. Ponder however is as close as it gets.

    4 Lightning Bolt – Main reason to run red. Makes Agressive delver draws even better. Answers mother of runes or Deathrite shaman on the draw. You want to run 4.

    3-4 Force of will – I dont have any argument whether you should run 3 or 4 this card. But you should run it.

    4 Daze – you pretty much want to use the mana you have available in early game. Free counters are way to go.

    4 Hymn to Tourach / Thoughtseize – The decks manabase can run it since we already increased the land count for True-Name nemesis. Its maybe most powerfull discard spell in format. You dont want to be in the receiving end of hymn to tourach. Thoughtseize is not that swingy efect , but its often just good enough. Also thoughtseize (inquisition of kozilek) gives more information than hymn to tourach.

    2-3 flex slots:

    Liliana of The Veil– Maindeck answer to opposing True-Name nemesis , Great in Grindy games.
    Just a great card in todays Legacy.

    Forked Bolt– Extra burn, rarely kills 2 creatures, but feels awesome when happens. Still kills almost the same things that Lightning bolt does.

    Chain Lightning– More agressive than forked bolt, But cant split the damage

    Dismember– Great removal spell , kills larger things than bolt does. 3 cmc and phyrexian mana doesnt make it best with dark confidant builds though. Also doesnt go upstairs like burn spells.

    Diabolic Edict – answers True-name Nemesis or Sneak attack Emrakul. Doesnt go upstairs

    Fire//Ice – extremely versatile. Blue for Force of will . Cycles for 2 , or divides 2 damage as you wish. Some people love this card. Some think its too expensive to cast. (its also 4 cmc for Dark Confidant)

    Spell pierce, Spell snare , Stifle – Extra counters or tricks. This deck doesnt really want to hold mana up early since we are playing curve up to 3 cmc with 8 1-drop creatures that want to get played as early as possible.


    Lands:
    The deck has stabilized to 19-20 lands in testing. Its possible to splash green just for deathrite activation and possible sideboard options. Lists that play under 20 lands , usually play thoughtseize over Hymn to tourach.

    Example landbase with double black spells such as hymn to tourach or tombstalker is.

    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Underground sea
    2 Volcanic island
    1 Badlands
    1 Tropical Island


    Underground Sea is by far most important land in the deck. And its often correct to fetch 2 underground sea:s before having red mana source available.

    Running Creeping tar pit is possible as 1-2 off. However the land base is quite tight as it is.
    Tar pit was excelent when testing miracles matchup!




    About the deck

    DRS Grixis wants to keep the deck as good ”delver deck” as possible. Deck has some really explosive delver draws with Delver of Secrets, Daze , Lightning Bolt and Wasteland. On other hand the deck has insane Deathrite shaman into True-Name Nemesis , Hymn to Tourach or Liliana of the Veil – draws. True-Name Nemesis acts lots like a Tarmogoyf in the deck. Its not rare for it to stay back blocking when deathrite shaman or Insectile Aberration grinds out opponents life total low enough for unblockable finishing blow. We have really evasive Creatures that can close games trough blockers.
    We have suprisingly good mana! At first people look this as a 4 colour Delver deck. But really , its just UB splash Lightning bolt and deathrite activation. Manabase is quite sturdy , and we have deathrite shaman to help.

    So this deck plays pretty much similar to BUG delver? Correct. However Abrupt Decay into Lightning Bolt change is important!
    In Favor of Abrupt decay. Its much more versatile , Answering troublesome cards such Counterbalance, Chalice of the void or Tarmogoyf. Its also UNCOUNTERABLE.

    On favour of bolt , it answers Mother of runes or Deathrite shaman on draw and goes upstairs when needed. However just having bolt in your deck , is awesome , because the threat of doing damage out from nowhere, makes opponents often make not optimal plays to preserve their life-total.

    On second note we are not graveyard dependant deck. Rest in Peace doesnt answer resolved Tombstalker like it would answer tarmogoyf or Deathrite shaman. Atleast we are not playing them all.

    Decks biggest weaknesses:

    Big Creatures like Tarmogoyf are hard to deal with.
    Bloodmoon
    Choke
    Chalice of the void
    counterbalance
    Are all annoying , and we often lose to one of those cards, but we have game against them all. Even though we have only Liliana of the veil ultimate in maindeck to remove those pesky enchancements when resolved. We play discard , counters , and sometimes we are able to play under them.
    Deathrite Shaman can help cast spells under choke or bloodmoon. And we have from 1-3 (+ 8 with tombstalker) curve to try resolving spells under Counterbalance or chalice of the void. (3cmc is often hard cost for countertop)




    Matchups:

    I dont have any precentages for matchups. I feel like the deck got much play against any deck in current Legacy metagame.

    Uwr Miracles: This is one of the harder matchups. We are slower than RUG delver, we dont have stifle for fetch lands or abrupt decay for counterbalance. Sensei's divining top is their key piece, if we manage to counter their top , match gets much more possible (hymn to tourach's are great if they dont have top) Its important to get early threat online.

    Rug Delver: True-name Nemesis the Bomb here. Like in any delver ”mirrors” its really big advantage to be on play. This matchup is fair, giving slight advantage to whoever on play.

    Death and Taxes: I Think this is the matchup where this version is big upgrade over BUG lists. We have bolt to their turn 1 mother of runes, where abrupt decay is already late on draw. We have sideboard cards like grim lavamancer available. After boarding we are not that vulnerable to Rest in Peace, since we dont play tarmogoyf. True-name nemesis can blank their batterskull. Dark Confidant , Vendilion Clique or Tombstalker are also all great cards in the matchup.

    Deathblade: They have stronger lategame but higher curve. Its important to have fast clock here , and answer their stoneforge mystic / batterskull. Delver draws are best here.

    Shardless bug: This is maybe our hardest matchup. We cant answer their massive card advantage. Abrupt decay can shut down delver draws. They even have multiple possible answers to True-Name Nemesis (Liliana , Toxic deluge).Another matchup where fast clock is the key to victory.

    Elves: Even though I lost 0-2 to elves in my latest tournament , I think this is very favourable matchup for us. Especially after board, since we have possible haymakers like: Marsh Casualties , Fire Covenant , Grim Lavamancer , Grafdiggers Cage.

    Storm /combo: We have everything you would want for the matchup. Clock , Counters , Discard.

    Sneak and Show / imperial Painter: Unlike other combo decks , they play Bloodmoon. Early Bloodmoon can be lights out if we dont have enough pressure / deathrite shaman. While bloodmoon is tough beats , These matchups are still quite okay for us since heavy discard , free counterspells and Fast clock.

    Bug Delver: This matchup is really even. Golgari charm from Sideboard can answer True-Name Nemesis. Tombstalker is the king in this matchup. Lightning Bolt is definately better than decay in the matchup.

    UWR delver: Anoher close delver mirror. Early batterskull can be tough. Equipment on True-name Unbeatable preboard. Anyway we are faster, and we got the tools to beat them. Discard after their stoneforge fetch is permanent answer to equipment. Thoughtseize is usually better than Hymn to Tourach here.

    Burn: Important to have 1 off Green source in the deck for monored or UR -Burn matchups. Deathrite shaman is the best card in our deck. Hymn to tourach is also totally bonkers. I would love to pair against endless flow of burn players. Leave wastelands untapped to play around Price of progress when possible.

    Punishing Jund: We are the beatdown here. In my testing , I remember casting multiple lightning bolts to the head of opponent to finish the game. They often deal damage to themselves bit with Dark confidant , Fetchlands or Sylvan library. Unsuprisingly great matchup for True-Name Nemesis.


    Keeping Hands: Basicaly this deck can keep most of the hands with lands and spells against unknown opponent. In decission whether to keep hand or not , its important to check colours from your lands (volcanic cant cast deathrite)




    My Current decklist:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Dark Confidant

    4 Force of will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Liliana of The Veil

    4 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Taiga
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Wasteland

    SB.
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Null Rod
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Marsh Casualties
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Thoughtseize


    For more "fair" Metagame , I would play 2 Tombstalkers and 1 Dismember over 3 Dark Confidants.
    Last edited by Ahtii; 07-28-2014 at 04:35 PM.

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    I Write more about matchups bit later

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    How come this deck is already on the established decks? (it's not exactly a complaint, I just never saw any deck similar to this archetype making top 16 in any major events, although I liked the approach very much)

    although it is similar to burg, I don't think it answers well the sweepers, since most of the threats here still die to the answers the original BurG would lose to (deluge, zealous persecution, golgari charm).

    still, it's a cool concept: this deck is closer to the UWR/BUG approach then RUG. so it feels like playing a "midrange" delver, instead of "tempo" delver (provided by stifle).

    keep up the good job =)

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Thanks for the primer. This deck is really cool.
    I play with 2 TNN, 2 Tombstalker and 4 Hymn to Tourach for the ultimative blow-out.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    The decks linked in the OP share little with the list posted: the first is clearly a grixis tempo while the second is an iteration of bUrg delver (link to thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...eck-bUrg-Tempo).

    These are stifle decks with cheaps threats and casting costs, while the OP's list leans more on CC 2-3 to get value (2 for 1 hymns or immortal TNN that blanks opponent's removals).

    Thus I think this deck should be moved in the new and development section.

    Anyway, my opinion is that this decks relies too much on deathrite shaman to be effective, and without one in play it will struggle in playing daze because it would delay too much his 3 and 2 CC bombs.
    Ignorance is strength

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    I agree, this deck should probably be in the new/developmental decks section. Also, tiaga and badlands in a daze deck doesn't feel right.

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Thanks for Feedback and interest! If this deck is in wrong place , I dont mind it being moved. However I do think this deck fills requirements for estabilished deck.
    For "finished" decks: Decks which are optimized and thoroughly tested. A deck is not required to have proven itself in a competitive tournament environment to be included in the Open Forum, but it is recommended. A thorough writeup including card choices, strategy, and matchup descriptions is required.
    We first discussed about the deck in Grixis tempo thread in developement. That thread has been there for ages ,and deck has changed a lot from opening, and theres not much left to that list , so people asked for new thread (primer). There are several players in those forums discussing and playing the deck. I have tested the deck with huge passion , played it daily after TNN got released. I have played relatively much against every deck in legacy, and in Grixis tempo thread I got the feeling that few other players have tested the deck alot also. This thread is still very young , and definately in progress , no matter in which section it will be. Strategy and matchup descriptions will fill as I have more time.

    The deck is not much played, but I do think its VERY competitive. Its very similar to BUG delver lists (some even run TNN over tarmogoyf with great succes)
    There is situations where lightning bolt is better than abrupt decay. There are matchups where its relevant. There are also Matchup where its vice versa.
    Also theres no reasonable thread this would go under to. BURG Tempo decks basicly play 1 more color than we do , Traditional Grixis delver lists are built around Young Pyromancer.

    Anyway, my opinion is that this decks relies too much on deathrite shaman to be effective, and without one in play it will struggle in playing daze because it would delay too much his 3 and 2 CC bombs.
    Its true , Daze is sometimes bad and not profitable to cast. But however its so good when its good (with delver or deathrite , sometimes even in later part of the game) Its definately worth to run.

    tiaga and badlands in a daze deck doesn't feel right.
    We play 20 lands with 6 Islands, Bug delver often plays 4 UG sea , 2 Bayou , 1 Tropical island.

    My reasoning to run Taiga over Tropical in the deck is based on my playstyle with fetching. In matchups where Wasteland is not relevant , its so good to go 2x UGsea --> taiga. Having double blue and black up for all relevant spells in those matchups (delver , deathrite , Hymn to tourach , Cantrips) When wasteland is relevant , Green is rarely needed before super lategame if game goes grindy.
    Badlands and Taiga are lands number 19 and 20. We still have plenty of blue sources (+ islands).

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    I see your reasoning for playing a full set of daze, since openers with delver or shaman with daze backup are very nice, but you also have to ask yourself how many times daze didn't count because you have draw it too late and your opponent has enough lands.

    I've never played this deck, but I've played Canadian Threshold and a lot of Merfolk in the past, and I know for sure that in the former dazes are stronger that in the latter.

    First of all canadian has only 4 goyfs as 2 CC cards, the others all cost 1: this means that you can easily take back a land drop without hindering your game.
    Canadian also plays 4 wastelands and 4 stifle as a denial strategy, so taxing counters are live for a bigger frame.
    Moreover it plays at least 8 cantrips (4 brainstorm and 4 ponder) and some lists even more (gitaxian probe comes into mind), in order to avoid drawing unuseful cards in mid/late game.

    Merfolk used to play 3-4 dazes because:
    • its CC leans on 2 and 3
    • with vial is fantastic, without sometimes you cannot afford to revert a land drop
    • it plays anly 4 wastelands, and you don't want to play daze AND sac a cursecatcher to counter a spell
    • it lacks library manipulation (it doesn't have a way to shuffle it back in mid game)
    • it doesn't have a way to kill DRS, which kind of invalidates daze


    Thus many lists don't play daze anymore now because even of it is a strong card it was too many time fow fodder.

    Your deck, regarding the potentiality to exploit daze, seems more like merfolk than canadian: you sure have some manipulation, but you don't really have a strong denial strategy and for sure you don't want to take back your second land when you have TNN in hand or something like hymn + bolt.

    I repeat myself: I haven't played this deck, but daze feels a little awkward...

    Regarding the side: you should play at least 2, possibly 3, abrupt decay. You have stated yourself, even if it's not hard to imagine, the cards that hurt you most, and they are all different permanent's type with CC 3 or less: I would accomodate another green source and happily play 3 decay in side for this cards.
    Ignorance is strength

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Quote Originally Posted by kingtk3 View Post
    I see your reasoning for playing a full set of daze, since openers with delver or shaman with daze backup are very nice, but you also have to ask yourself how many times daze didn't count because you have draw it too late and your opponent has enough lands.

    I've never played this deck, but I've played Canadian Threshold and a lot of Merfolk in the past, and I know for sure that in the former dazes are stronger that in the latter.

    First of all canadian has only 4 goyfs as 2 CC cards, the others all cost 1: this means that you can easily take back a land drop without hindering your game.
    Canadian also plays 4 wastelands and 4 stifle as a denial strategy, so taxing counters are live for a bigger frame.
    Moreover it plays at least 8 cantrips (4 brainstorm and 4 ponder) and some lists even more (gitaxian probe comes into mind), in order to avoid drawing unuseful cards in mid/late game.

    Merfolk used to play 3-4 dazes because:
    • its CC leans on 2 and 3
    • with vial is fantastic, without sometimes you cannot afford to revert a land drop
    • it plays anly 4 wastelands, and you don't want to play daze AND sac a cursecatcher to counter a spell
    • it lacks library manipulation (it doesn't have a way to shuffle it back in mid game)
    • it doesn't have a way to kill DRS, which kind of invalidates daze


    Thus many lists don't play daze anymore now because even of it is a strong card it was too many time fow fodder.

    Your deck, regarding the potentiality to exploit daze, seems more like merfolk than canadian: you sure have some manipulation, but you don't really have a strong denial strategy and for sure you don't want to take back your second land when you have TNN in hand or something like hymn + bolt.

    I repeat myself: I haven't played this deck, but daze feels a little awkward...

    Regarding the side: you should play at least 2, possibly 3, abrupt decay. You have stated yourself, even if it's not hard to imagine, the cards that hurt you most, and they are all different permanent's type with CC 3 or less: I would accomodate another green source and happily play 3 decay in side for this cards.
    I understand your points. These kind of thoughts are exactly this want we aim at: A discussion about this tempo concept.
    You are right, Abrupt Decay is a very good SB card and one has to play some copies of it.
    @Daze: I see this deck as a mixture between burg (-g, +more B) and Team America (-g, +Bolt) and in both decks Daze is a auto-include, which pushes the tempo strategy.
    I play the full set to maximaze the chances to completely outtempo my opponent with a Shaman > Hymn (Daze active) start while wasting their land on turn 2. Grixis Green adds burg's explosivness (Bolt) to BUG's big value spells (Stalker, Hymn). I like the idea behind this, maybe also due to my affinity to Lightning Bolts.

    EDIT: I will play my first real tournament with this deck in two days after slamming Tendrils of Agony for 8 months straight. I will tell you guys the outcome.
    My SB is (meta is pretty combo heavy but one can run into almost every deck):
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Electrickery
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle

    EDIT 2:
    The tournament went not so good. No one actually played a real combo deck (except one random Painter pile).
    I went 2-2 but the deck felt ok-ish. The best move was trading Electrickery for 10 Maverick creatures.
    Last edited by CabalTherapy; 08-03-2014 at 04:08 AM.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    So I haven't been posting on here much because I was planning on taking this to SCG Dallas. Ended up only finishing 54th so I hadn't planned on writing a tournament report. I can do so if there's any interest though.

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    So I haven't been posting on here much because I was planning on taking this to SCG Dallas. Ended up only finishing 54th so I hadn't planned on writing a tournament report. I can do so if there's any interest though.
    Some sort of feedback would be nice. Did you experience this deck as clunky? Some draws feel like the clunkiest shit ever.
    WantToPonder
    former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
    Team MTG Berlin

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
    The Dragonstorm
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm

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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    Some sort of feedback would be nice. Did you experience this deck as clunky? Some draws feel like the clunkiest shit ever.
    Here's the list I ran (maindeck pretty much Qweerios' list):

    // Lands
    3 [R] Underground Sea
    1 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [MPR] Wasteland
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [R] Badlands
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [A] Tropical Island
    1 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit

    // Creatures
    4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
    2 [FUT] Tombstalker
    3 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration

    // Spells
    4 [5E] Brainstorm
    4 [DD2] Daze
    4 [MPR] Lightning Bolt
    4 [M12] Ponder
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
    2 [ROE] Forked Bolt
    1 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [CS] Deathmark
    SB: 1 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
    SB: 2 [A] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 [RTR] Rakdos Charm
    SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 [NE] Submerge
    SB: 1 [JU] Envelop

    I've only been playing it for about 1 month, so I can't say that I'm that great with it yet. Most of my experience with Delver decks these days have been with Team America, so much of that translates over to this list since it's very close to the same idea.

    I am also not a fan of Young Pyromancer in Legacy right now. I feel that because of TNN, there is simply too much hate that deals with it, specifically Golgari Charm effects.

    The draws you get aren't any clunkier than Team America hands with the exception of occasionally having more mana problems vs the Wasteland decks due to the Trop & Volcanic.

    Many of my losses at the SCG were my own fault, so it's good to know that the problem was me and not the deck.

    Some thoughts on it:

    Pros:
    -This particular list is geared towards beating other Delver decks, specifically Team America. As you can see, the only Abrupt Decayable creatures are Delver and Deathrite, which if they're spending 2 mana to kill your 1 mana guy, you're fine with that. Tombstalker is ridiculous against all the other Delver decks with the exception of UWR Delver (more on Tombstalker later).
    -Out of all the Delver decks I've played (I've played the big Three a decent amount, with focus on Team America), I've felt like this has the best combo matchup. You get the ability to attack their hand + countermagic that Team America gets, but you don't have dead Abrupt Decay / Disfigures in Game 1 (Burn is always live). Post-board, REB is of course amazing against the plethora of blue decks out there, including against the combo decks.
    -You have more reach with this deck than any other Delver deck since you get to play DRS + Lightning Bolt. I've won more than a few games where they try and race me when I have DRS + TNN/Stalker/Delver on the board and just burn them out with double Bolt to the face.
    -You really get to play some mind games with opponents. First of all, this list is very uncommon to see and opponents often misdiagnose what deck you're on since you look so much like Team America. Even when they see the red, they assume you're on the BURG 4-color Delver lists and board accordingly. This means, oftentimes, you'll see them bringing in Submerge and RIP against you. Because you only have 1 forest in the deck, it gets really tough to Submerge you unless you fetch that land. Playing Tombstalker and being able to have it not get Submerged is huge in the Delver mirrors. Also, when you're expecting RIP, you swap the Tombstalkers for Cliques, which are already good vs the SFM decks to begin with, and now the only thing their RIP affects is your DRS.

    Cons:
    -The manabase is the weakest out of all the Delver decks. The Tropical Island is a necessary evil for DRS, but the land I actually hate the most is the Volcanic Island. Sometimes, you can get those turns where you get your trifecta of lands (Underground Sea, Badlands, Volcanic Island), have a DRS out, then you Hymn them. With TA, you at least can eat a creature with a Trop, but with Volcanic + DRS, it's a complete nonbo.
    -Tarmogoyf. The one drawback of Lightning Bolt is that it doesn't deal with the best 2 drop green creature. You can race him, but sometimes he's just too big and they have too many guys. The Deathmark in the sideboard was pretty amazing since it kills T1 Deathrite Shamans as well as Tarmogoyfs / anything in D&T. Going forward, I'll probably cut the Submerge altogether for a second Deathmark.
    -Enchantments. Sadly, there is nothing in Grixis that really deals with Enchantments, which is why I played the Krosan Grip in the sideboard since most decks that run enchantments you're afraid of probably won't be running Wasteland. Specifically, Counterbalance is the biggest pain in your ass if it resolves. Sylvan Library is a beating as well.

    I'll post up the report of my rounds later on.

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Howdy,

    I played some games with my friends to adjust my list for an upcoming 50+ players tournament.
    My list for reference :


    //Creature (13)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    //Instant (19)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle

    //Sorcery (9)
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Ponder

    //Land (19)
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 2 Deathmark
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Toxic Deluge


    I played against Canadian Tempo *****, DeathBlade, Cascade 4C (Shardless + Bloodbraid Elf), Elves, Miracle control, Affinity

    The deck plays smoothly and I'm very happy with the combinaison of creatures. Grim Lavamancer does an incredible job.
    I can't really use it to burn HP along the game, because my graveyard comes at one point ou of gas to feed Grim.
    But used as a soft creature removal, he is a king.

    The disrupt is good. It is true that sometime I really want Hymn to be Spell Pierce, but Hymn are usually very strong because it can hit lands.
    Gitaxian Probe + Stifle / wasteland are very strong. The only question remaining about this part of deck (instants, sorceries) is to keep or not the Ponders.
    As for now, I keep it, but I might test with Spell Pierce instead.

    The manabase is not that clunky. with only one source of green for DRS activation, the deck really stay in Grixis colors.
    3 Volcanic Island are maybe too much, as I was never in lack of U or R, but sometime need B and R. I will probably change one Volcanic Island for a Badlands.

    The sideboard still need some adjustment, I not sure to keep or not Abrupt Decay, even if it is a extremely strong card, sadly not in UBR color :/
    The list need more testing to know if the man abase is strong enough to run only 1 Tropical Island and being able to cast Abrupt Decay game 2 without being G manaless, or if 2 tropical island are needed (but in this case, I can't really keep Badlands without going mana-clunky).

    What do you think about ? Already tested or have a better sideboard / main board strategies ?

  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    After only few games, here are the things whom come to me :

    Maindeck :
    The deck seems also to be playable with only 18 lands (just like Tempo Canadian ***** does).
    But as Grixis play a little bit more spells with cmc=2 or cmc=3 (TNN, Fire Covenant), using Daze in the very first turns are more or less like a time walk.
    I changed to 3 the number of Daze. More testing will tell if another G mana source is needed (after boarding in 3 Decay).
    If it dosent goes well, we can reduce the number of copy (Decay) to 2 and see what happens (making 1 freeslot in sideboard for an 3rd REB or so...).
    if this is still not enough, instead of a 3rd REB, packing a tropical Island in the sideboard, or main deck, pushing lands count to 19... (but this is really far from what I wish as a Grixis deck).


    Quote Originally Posted by markkugel View Post
    The only question remaining about this part of deck (instants, sorceries) is to keep or not the Ponders.
    As for now, I keep it, but I might test with Spell Pierce instead.
    Right now, I really prefer 4 Ponder (rooms come from -1 Daze, -1 Lands) as a split of 2 Ponder +2 Spell Pierce or others thing.
    Ponder let you search your deck, feed Lavamancer and help for quality draw, plus has a shuffle option.

    Sideboard :
    Toxic Deluge is a very strong cards. But in this list, it always just clean the board (our include).
    Because zero of our creature (usually) survive, and with not so much creatures in deck it is more often than not a "good move for my opponent".
    IMO, Fire Covenant is a much better option here.

    So, my Grixis list now goes like this :

    //Creature (13)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    //Instant (18)
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle

    //Sorcery (11)
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    3 Thoughtseize
    // or mix with 1 Hymn, 2 Thoughtseize (Inquisition of Kozilek)

    //Land (18)
    1 Badlands
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 2 Deathmark
    SB: 2 Fire Covenant
    SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Spell Pierce

    I'm working on a sideboard-table. I will post it there when ready (not saying it won't need some work and changes).

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    With cards such as Deathrite Shaman, Liliana and Hymn to Tourach, which means, black intensive, is it still a good idea to run Stifle? I always thought Stifle worked way better in a RUG Thresh deck.

  16. #16

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Quote Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos View Post
    With cards such as Deathrite Shaman, Liliana and Hymn to Tourach, which means, black intensive, is it still a good idea to run Stifle? I always thought Stifle worked way better in a RUG Thresh deck.
    I play Thoughtseize (testing 2 Hymn, 1 Thoughtseize) instead of a full play set of Hymn, and I'm also not running Liliana.
    So my list isn't that black intensive.

    Probe+Stifle and Probe+Wasteland are just awesome.
    Probe let you have perfect informations and let you choose the right moment to activate your Stifle/Wasteland on the right target.
    Thoughtseize act as a pseudo Probe one turn later, giving you the same perfect information plus to chose a card to discard.

    ATM, I feel good with the B side of my man abase. I only wonder if the list can easily produce G mana "just in time" post board (for Decay).
    Tests will be done this Donnerstag.
    Last edited by kravkenov; 08-25-2014 at 12:41 PM.

  17. #17

    I think the list does belong here now, there's a small handful of players who've been testing the deck out, and we've converged on pretty similar lists. The deck is distinct from the other Grixis delver deck that makes use of Young Pyromancer, though it doesn't have the benefit of Eric Rill playing it.

    My deck:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of secrets
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Tombstalker

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Chain Lightning

    4 Force of will
    4 Daze
    3 Spell Pierce

    3 Thoughtseize

    4 Wasteland
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Underground sea
    3 Volcanic island

    SB
    1 Null Rod
    2 Searing Blood
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Marsh Casualties
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Shattering Spree
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Innocent Blood


    I'm pretty happy with the list, it feels powerful. I wouldn't worry about daze setting you back a turn on casting TNN, UWR runs daze and they don't have DRS to gain back any lost tempo. Rather than sticking a sword on TNN, I'm going for an entirely evasive game plan. Every creature in the deck is evasive, and they require orthogonal answers. TS dodges bolt and decay, whilst TNN requires either Council's Judgement, or Golgari Charm. Once something sticks, your chances of closing the game out are pretty good. Every now and again, you get a turn 2 TNN, which is pretty backbreaking. I initially argued against Thoughtseize in the deck, but after trying it, I like it because it helps deal with Stoneforge Mystic, and it can pull apart the countertop combo before it hits the board. It also makes combo matchups fairly trivial.

    I'm not running any green sources at the moment, as reanimator isn't big in my area. Miracles seems around 50/50, though it's often a good idea to mulligan to an aggressive hand.

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    I think you need at least 1 Badlands in the list just so you can get BB and UU without getting Wastelanded off of R when you have 3 lands out. Also, while I can understand not wanting to run a green source, being able to eat creatures out of the yard with DRS is very important in some matchups (Dredge, Reanimator).

    Why the Innocent Blood and Shattering Sprees in the board? I think we have better options than those cards to deal with creatures / artifacts.

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    I switched over to Tombstalkers from Dark Confidants also. ( 2 tombstalkers and 1 fire/ice now)

    now that miracles is more popular , I adjusted sideboard a bit , removing Grim lavamancers (nonbo with tomstalker) for 1 pithing needle , and testing wether I like Abrupt decay , Krosan grip or extra pithing needle more often.

    Illusions interesting list! It definately belongs here! I understand not running 1 Badlands since you don't play Hymn, But atleast for me , green source is definately helping way more than hurting! Not only for removing Griselbrands, Laboratory maniacs and Golgari Grave Trolls, but also Eidolon of Great Revels and Goblin Guides..

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] DRS Grixis (Grixis Green)

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    I think you need at least 1 Badlands in the list just so you can get BB and UU without getting Wastelanded off of R when you have 3 lands out. Also, while I can understand not wanting to run a green source, being able to eat creatures out of the yard with DRS is very important in some matchups (Dredge, Reanimator).

    Why the Innocent Blood and Shattering Sprees in the board? I think we have better options than those cards to deal with creatures / artifacts.
    Those cards are in there because I'm a mong. Shattering Spree is meant to be Smash to Smithereens, and Innocent Blood should be Diabolic Edict, though I could also see Dismember being useful there as well. For lands, I might try proxying with a trop to see how it plays.

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