New block structure and set rotation changes

[rufus]

On some level it seems like they'd be better off if they overlapped blocks by one set. That would push up value in the 3rd set.

I also think they'd be better off going into an 'experimental period' where they tried more variations on block structures. I guess that's what they were doing with the big/small games.

[Barook]

On some level it seems like they'd be better off if they overlapped blocks by one set. That would push up value in the 3rd set.

I also think they'd be better off going into an 'experimental period' where they tried more variations on block structures. I guess that's what they were doing with the big/small games.

Lorwyn/Shadowmoor was considered a (major) failure from Wizards' standpoint.

But how did Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored fare in terms of sales?

And I don't see only sunshine when people think Wizards could experiment with new, powerful mechanics - sure, they last shorter in Standard, but we're stuck with them forever. And said sets brought us Annihilator and Miracles.

[Meekrab]

It seems all sales driven. What does not sell well Core sets and Third Block set therefore lets get rid of them.

Sure, but having sets sell well is better for Wizards AND better for players.

[rufus]

Lorwyn/Shadowmoor was considered a (major) failure from Wizards' standpoint.

Weren't both of those the 2-set blocks - more or less what MaRo says WotC is switching to?

Just to clarify, what I meant was that they could set up things so that the blocks would be something like:

Lorwyn-Morningtide-Shadowmoor
Shadowmoor-Eventide-Shards

So that Shadowmoor spans two blocks so it's worth something as both the third set, and the first set of the next block.

And I don't see only sunshine when people think Wizards could experiment with new, powerful mechanics - sure, they last shorter in Standard, but we're stuck with them forever. And said sets brought us Annihilator and Miracles.

New mechanics dangerous, but as long as things don't warp too much, a shifting metagame is a nice thing to have.

[btm10]

Lorwyn/Shadowmoor was considered a (major) failure from Wizards' standpoint.

But how did Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored fare in terms of sales?

And I don't see only sunshine when people think Wizards could experiment with new, powerful mechanics - sure, they last shorter in Standard, but we're stuck with them forever. And said sets brought us Annihilator and Miracles.

I can't comment on sales for Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored, but Miracles gave Legacy a new spin (ha!) on the Counter-Top archetype, and a pretty sweet deck at that. While Annihilator makes Emrakul a little extra obnoxious, it's hardly the biggest problem we have.

[lyracian]

Sure, but having sets sell well is better for Wizards AND better for players.

I have nothing against sets selling well I just dislike the 25% reduction in life span. I dislike having to replace cards like Searing Spear with Lightning Strike when they are functional reprints. I am not a fan of standard but I do play it from time to time since it can be a fun night out (and there is not much other choice for MTG). I think as far as Standard is concerned I will have a look at Netrunner or what the EDH crowd are up to.

[Barook]

I can't comment on sales for Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored, but Miracles gave Legacy a new spin (ha!) on the Counter-Top archetype, and a pretty sweet deck at that. While Annihilator makes Emrakul a little extra obnoxious, it's hardly the biggest problem we have.

Miracles isn't a problem by itself (it's definitely not ban-worthy) and I can see some people enjoying the Durdle-Control decks aside from the people who just play it because it's the best deck of the format.

It's still a retarded mechanic with over-the-Top (ha!) library manipulation and it's extremely miserable to play against, even with decks that have a positive match-ups against it.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

It's still a retarded mechanic with over-the-Top (ha!) library manipulation and it's extremely miserable to play against, even with decks that have a positive match-ups against it.

Frankly, playing against UW control was miserable ever since the day I know this game, it's not like "Counter your every spell, Disk, Wrath, Mahamoti, go" was that more thrilling back in the days. If not for the Jace, it'll be a fair deck, and Jace is a retarded design miracles or not.

[Meekrab]

I have nothing against sets selling well I just dislike the 25% reduction in life span. I dislike having to replace cards like Searing Spear with Lightning Strike when they are functional reprints. I am not a fan of standard but I do play it from time to time since it can be a fun night out (and there is not much other choice for MTG). I think as far as Standard is concerned I will have a look at Netrunner or what the EDH crowd are up to.

I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by having to buy a playset of a common to keep up with rotations. :'(

[TsumiBand]

I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by having to buy a playset of a common to keep up with rotations. :'(

It's just stupid because there was this Incinerate > Searing Spear > Lightning Strike progression, and it was like, why fucking bother?

I bet no one would have much cared if there wasn't like some minor hubbub about it from one of the MtG related "official" sites, can't remember which exactly. But there was this whole thing about how it just made sense from a flavor standpoint, like... who gives a shit! Why are lightning strikes more "in-universe" in Theros Standard than spears? Spears are a crucial part of a phalanx, which is a very Greco-Roman-Hrrnda-Hrrrnda thing to have lying around. But nah, Lightning's more better even though the humans are all RW and if anyone would have a spear it'd be a character in Red or White, but we didn't have any of those, did we? Hurp durp magurp

Like I know, it's $.40 cents, but it's just a clumsy rotation thing and it adds insult to injury when it comes to building against the next Standard season. Like, one already knows the chase rare chase is on, so why fuck around with re-naming Searing Spear? Just why are you touching that. Put it back. No it isn't expensive sweetie, it's just annoying. Stop. Put it back. Leave it.

[Lord Seth]

My problem with renames like Searing Spear->Lightning Strike is that it means they wasted a name. Lightning Strike could've been a name used on a new card. Wasting it on a functional reprint just makes it so that they're one name shorter for new cards. If it's for some kind of flavor reason it makes sense (e.g. Elvish Mystic is more generic than Llanowar Elves and thus be used in more sets), but that doesn't apply to Searing Spear/Lightning Strike.

[Meekrab]

Why are lightning strikes more "in-universe" in Theros Standard than spears?

You know the whole theme of the block was Gods, right? I mean come on.

[lyracian]

I'm sorry you were inconvenienced by having to buy a playset of a common to keep up with rotations. :'(

It is not just a playset of commons though; you have to replace Hellrider, Lightning Mauler and all the other cards that are rotating out. I liked the fact that the core set had cards like Shock and Chandra's Phoneix that I already own. I understand rotation is designed to sell packs but since I play standard less than once a month I am not willing to spend money on either packs or expensive standard cards like Stormbreath Dragon. The new format with out Core sets make me think there will be lots more examples like Searing Spear designed to force players to buy functional reprints just to be able to play.

[TsumiBand]

You know the whole theme of the block was Gods, right? I mean come on.

To be fair - the theme wasn't Gods, the theme was "top-down Greek flavor". Gods were in the set, sure.

I'm just saying that they're similarly 'in-universe' and it's a lousy waste of a name. It means that "Lightning Strike" can't be a different card, it's now just a durdly reprint.

There was an article like, foreeeevvveeeerrrr ago, talking about how some of the early names on Magic cards were just thrown away on poor effects, or even just plain mislabeled. I think Invulnerability was one of them, because in the grand scheme of things, damage prevention is nowhere near being invulnerable in Magic (even during Tempest, this was clear).

It was a minor point, but it matters because if you toss out names like "Crushing Despair" it can't be a 5 mana Sorcery that has target player discard a nonland card - it doesn't make sense, and now that name can't be paired with a great card that's in the testing phase down the pipe.

I mean I get why it would be so - there's a natural progression there I guess, moving from Lightning Bolt to Lightning Strike, and just tacking on to the cost. Makes sense. It's really not the literal worst thing ever, but it's also not a clear "flavor decision" because RW was chock full of Hoplites - that's a lift from the ancient Grecian military, and their formation was the phalanx - a wall of shields and spears which allowed the army to attack and defend and advance more or less at once, and it was good at what it did. So no, I don't think that spear < lightning even with God cards running around in the set.

I make it sound like I care more than I do, I mean really it is just a playset of commons, it just feels clunky is all.

[rufus]

...
So no, I don't think that spear < lightning even with God cards running around in the set.

I make it sound like I care more than I do, I mean really it is just a playset of commons, it just feels clunky is all.

Maybe they had Thunderbolt all lined up, but moved it forward for some stupid reason.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The biggest mistake of all these also-reprints is that they add an immense amount of ballast into already congested game with 20k different cards. It took me over sixteen years to finally understand the reason why my friends did quit back in late 1990's. I'd love to write some wall of text about this phenomenon, but then again I'm not willing to write much more important things, so why care...

[Humphrey]

Those functional reprints help EDH, Highlander and Cube players to add more consistency if they chose to. And theyre not eating up design space.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Those functional reprints help EDH, Highlander and Cube players to add more consistency if they chose to. And theyre not eating up design space.

Of course. I'm not saying that it's bad. But I loved the good old days, because the game was more or less limited. Maybe I should switch to Old School, but then again nobody plays it.

[Humphrey]

Of course. I'm not saying that it's bad. But I loved the good old days, because the game was more or less limited. Maybe I should switch to Old School, but then again nobody plays it.

start cubing yourself if you have a playgroup who likes drafting

[Richard Cheese]

Of course. I'm not saying that it's bad. But I loved the good old days, because the game was more or less limited. Maybe I should switch to Old School, but then again nobody plays it.

I think Old School is too limited. I'd like to see a format called "Classic" where only old-bordered, non-foil cards are allowed, and using a banlist-only approach like Legacy.