Storm's got only a couple maindeck cards. Luckily they're not Grenzo but actual Good Stuff. Poor gobs :/
Saying all they got is Cavern is wrong, btw. Winstigator, Krenko, Wort, Earwig Squad, Tarfire, Warren Weirding, T-SH, Stingscourger, Kiki, Tuktuk Scrapper all have been printed after Vial :P
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Dear god, how could I forget how much Krenko impacts the viability of Goblins as an archetype?!
Anyway, if you ignore all the fringe playable "I guess this is kind of ok if you tutor it" riffraff, Goblins hasn't actually had a card that successfully impacted its overall performance since Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial. And no, Winstigator doesn't count.
Jelly, and what's your point? Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, I simply don't understand what you mean.
Also, as sidenote - and feel no offense -, but your avatar is really disturbing.
My point is that people keep bringing up Zoo and Goblins like their current existence, or lack thereof, is relevant to the existence of other non-blue archetypes. They just keep getting shoved in our faces like those commercials of old people with electrolarynxes groaning "this is what happens when you play non-blue". Goblins didn't die because it was non-blue. Goblins died because it's been ten years without an update. If Show and Tell doesn't get any updated fatties or enablers for the next ten years, I promise you it will be just as dead.
Yes, my complaint is sort of out of place here, but so is trying to predict the fate of Elves with Goblins. If people want to cite them as an example of "oh, Wizards hasn't cared about pure aggro for ten years", then so be it. But they often do the former and it's a pet peeve.
Thanks.
Oh yeah, now I get it. Well, but there' still one question, though. And excuse me, if I'll ask about some notoriety, but I never played Goblins, so bear with me: all those goblinssince-Vail mentioned, do they really make no difference at all?
Again, none of them are integral to plan, strategy, or core of the deck. None of them make a splash with consideration to how good or not good the deck does in an overall sense. For example, if I were to ask you what the last addition to TES was, the answer would probably be either Past in Flames or Gitaxian Probe. But by technicality it would be Void Snare. Two of those matter to the deck. The other is just a neat addition.
Aggro inevitably always dies as more utility is printed. Anyone that originates from the vintage scene knows this. The only vanilla creature that defies this rule is Tarmogoyf (and perhaps our blue flying insect cluster fuck of a design error)
I'm just waiting for legacy's version of Lodestone Golem. That's bound to happen as WOTC wants to push Modern and take control of the one thing that's been haunting them since they managed to fuck up with the Chronicles reprint: The reserved list. Prices are now controlled by SCG and the players. Bringing players to modern shifts price control back to WOTC.
Lodestone Golem 2.0 will happen and there will be no bans, just watch. It will be a deliberate, calculated attack on this format in order to funnel legacy players into the modern pool. This should create mega modern tournaments (standard + modern + legacy players in one tournament instead of multiple fragmented tournaments) and will be good for the game.
It's funny how Wizards want to shift away from 4 mana Wraths while we have 1 mana instant speed Wraths.
You mean TNN? And letting Brainstorm continue to rampage through the format while being close to Mental Misstep numbers now? There's no conspiracy, although TNN is pretty close to an intention to fuck up the format.
As far as the "outdated" argument goes, RUG Delver is a top deck since god know how long with little to no upgrades in a long time. The only major upgrade it got was Delver.
It's *your* example!
The point is you're saying that Mirran crusader has to be killed with -X/-X hate, but that's exactly what kills TNN.
It's literally the worst possible example you could've chosen in legacy.
You could've chosen ANY OTHER CREATURE or ANY OTHER DECK *IN LEGACY* and not been made fun of.
Aside from that, complaining about TNN is worse than complaining about Goyf because at least Goyf is way above the curve.
At least SFM->Batterskull feels unfair half the time.
TNN is just Invisible Stalker with a hexproof Bonesplitter.
I'm sad to say that my hilarious post did not tease agreement out of you.
Btw; 2013 called, they want their TNN-whining back.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Yeah, of course, the deck was very bad in Mental Misstep era (namely when CotV decks rised in numbers) and it was far from from stellar in some other time frames.
Basically what I had in mind... Thresh (any kind of that) was always a choice to consider, and it was pretty powerful deck. The gameplan (both the control and tempo versions, and all the colour combinations) were solid, the deck had the perfect amount of library and stack manipulation, threats and answers, it was good in the days of old and it keeps to be good in the modern times. Also, there are lots of possible builds (although some of them are called "threshold" only out of the habit, lets say pre-DRS BUG),so maybe it's more of a terminology/taxonomia/systematics affair than anything else.
And I'm quite a fanboy of Mystic Enforcer, so call me biased.
tl, dr: It was always a good deck, ever since Thresh-Landstill-Goblins era, but there were times when it wasn't the best choice or when it struggled to survive.
So, what you're saying is that Delver of Secrets is responsible for putting Thresh back on the map and transforming it into the modern powerhouse and DtB it is today?
[QUOTE=Bed Decks Palyer;832342]I am so sad that I missed the original post because it looks like it's received errata that removes this flavor text. :(Originally Posted by TsumiBand
On topic -- something something, Delver shoulda been Red, something. You know the argument, copypaste it here. I'm not wrong! I'm not. No, really. I'm just not. *staunch face of destiny*
Because that makes up for it being a 10/10 for sure. TNN is closer to the Elephant than Progenitus most of the time.
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