Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 93

Thread: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

  1. #61
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by force_of_phil View Post
    Goblins got Grenzo... I want to believe.
    Fanboying harder doesn't actually make it work.

  2. #62
    It's not easy being green

    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Posts

    1,635

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    Anyway, moving onto other discussions, why does everyone keep bringing up Zoo and Goblins and comparing them to other things? Oh, my God, yes, Goblins is dead, but it doesn't mean that Elves and Death and Taxes will die because they're non-blue and clearly are fooling around with the same cesspool of cards. Goblins is dead because the last card it got to play with was Cavern of Souls. And the card before that was Aether Vial. I shit you not. It has been playing literally the exact same hand for ten years. I don't think any other fan club can beat that. By sharp comparison, Elves gets things like Green Sun's Zenith, Natural Order targets, Elvish Visionary, Scavenging Ooze, Lorwyn, Reclaimation Sage, Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay, and they're still getting shit. Same with Death and Taxes. Boy, it sure do does suck to painlessly mainboard four Thalias and Phyrexian Revokers.
    Storm's got only a couple maindeck cards. Luckily they're not Grenzo but actual Good Stuff. Poor gobs :/

    Saying all they got is Cavern is wrong, btw. Winstigator, Krenko, Wort, Earwig Squad, Tarfire, Warren Weirding, T-SH, Stingscourger, Kiki, Tuktuk Scrapper all have been printed after Vial :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  3. #63
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Saying all they got is Cavern is wrong, btw. Winstigator, Krenko, Wort, Earwig Squad, Tarfire, Warren Weirding, T-SH, Stingscourger, Kiki, Tuktuk Scrapper all have been printed after Vial :P
    Dear god, how could I forget how much Krenko impacts the viability of Goblins as an archetype?!

    Anyway, if you ignore all the fringe playable "I guess this is kind of ok if you tutor it" riffraff, Goblins hasn't actually had a card that successfully impacted its overall performance since Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial. And no, Winstigator doesn't count.

  4. #64
    banned

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    black metal bed room
    Posts

    2,188

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Jelly, and what's your point? Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, I simply don't understand what you mean.
    Also, as sidenote - and feel no offense -, but your avatar is really disturbing.

  5. #65
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Jelly, and what's your point? Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, I simply don't understand what you mean.
    My point is that people keep bringing up Zoo and Goblins like their current existence, or lack thereof, is relevant to the existence of other non-blue archetypes. They just keep getting shoved in our faces like those commercials of old people with electrolarynxes groaning "this is what happens when you play non-blue". Goblins didn't die because it was non-blue. Goblins died because it's been ten years without an update. If Show and Tell doesn't get any updated fatties or enablers for the next ten years, I promise you it will be just as dead.

    Yes, my complaint is sort of out of place here, but so is trying to predict the fate of Elves with Goblins. If people want to cite them as an example of "oh, Wizards hasn't cared about pure aggro for ten years", then so be it. But they often do the former and it's a pet peeve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Also, as sidenote - and feel no offense -, but your avatar is really disturbing.
    Thanks.

  6. #66
    banned

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    black metal bed room
    Posts

    2,188

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Oh yeah, now I get it. Well, but there' still one question, though. And excuse me, if I'll ask about some notoriety, but I never played Goblins, so bear with me: all those goblinssince-Vail mentioned, do they really make no difference at all?

  7. #67
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Oh yeah, now I get it. Well, but there' still one question, though. And excuse me, if I'll ask about some notoriety, but I never played Goblins, so bear with me: all those goblinssince-Vail mentioned, do they really make no difference at all?
    Again, none of them are integral to plan, strategy, or core of the deck. None of them make a splash with consideration to how good or not good the deck does in an overall sense. For example, if I were to ask you what the last addition to TES was, the answer would probably be either Past in Flames or Gitaxian Probe. But by technicality it would be Void Snare. Two of those matter to the deck. The other is just a neat addition.

  8. #68
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Aggro inevitably always dies as more utility is printed. Anyone that originates from the vintage scene knows this. The only vanilla creature that defies this rule is Tarmogoyf (and perhaps our blue flying insect cluster fuck of a design error)

    I'm just waiting for legacy's version of Lodestone Golem. That's bound to happen as WOTC wants to push Modern and take control of the one thing that's been haunting them since they managed to fuck up with the Chronicles reprint: The reserved list. Prices are now controlled by SCG and the players. Bringing players to modern shifts price control back to WOTC.

    Lodestone Golem 2.0 will happen and there will be no bans, just watch. It will be a deliberate, calculated attack on this format in order to funnel legacy players into the modern pool. This should create mega modern tournaments (standard + modern + legacy players in one tournament instead of multiple fragmented tournaments) and will be good for the game.

  9. #69
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,489

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    It's funny how Wizards want to shift away from 4 mana Wraths while we have 1 mana instant speed Wraths.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Lodestone Golem 2.0 will happen and there will be no bans, just watch. It will be a deliberate, calculated attack on this format in order to funnel legacy players into the modern pool. This should create mega modern tournaments (standard + modern + legacy players in one tournament instead of multiple fragmented tournaments) and will be good for the game.
    You mean TNN? And letting Brainstorm continue to rampage through the format while being close to Mental Misstep numbers now? There's no conspiracy, although TNN is pretty close to an intention to fuck up the format.

    As far as the "outdated" argument goes, RUG Delver is a top deck since god know how long with little to no upgrades in a long time. The only major upgrade it got was Delver.

  10. #70
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,146

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    This isn't a case of e.g. "I'm on BUG, Mirran Crusader fucks me over, maybe I should play Toxic Deluge etc." - the answers to TNN are extremely narrow to non-existant
    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Nobody packs TNN-specific hate since it's so extremely narrow that it's a waste of slots. E.g. [..] cards like Golgari Charm, Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge and Council's Judgment
    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't quote me out of context to weave a fake statement I never made.

    Crusader also dies to Burn and StP, something that TNN doesn't do, among other things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    For what purpose do you want to compare BUG's weakness to Mirran Crusader to TNN?
    It's *your* example!
    The point is you're saying that Mirran crusader has to be killed with -X/-X hate, but that's exactly what kills TNN.
    It's literally the worst possible example you could've chosen in legacy.
    You could've chosen ANY OTHER CREATURE or ANY OTHER DECK *IN LEGACY* and not been made fun of.

    Aside from that, complaining about TNN is worse than complaining about Goyf because at least Goyf is way above the curve.
    At least SFM->Batterskull feels unfair half the time.
    TNN is just Invisible Stalker with a hexproof Bonesplitter.


    I'm sad to say that my hilarious post did not tease agreement out of you.
    Btw; 2013 called, they want their TNN-whining back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #71
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    As far as the "outdated" argument goes, RUG Delver is a top deck since god know how long with little to no upgrades in a long time. The only major upgrade it got was Delver.
    How good was Thresh before Delver of Secrets?

  12. #72
    banned

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    black metal bed room
    Posts

    2,188

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    How good was Thresh before Delver of Secrets?
    Pretty.

  13. #73
    Just call me Dick.
    Richard Cheese's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2011
    Location

    Your mom's house.
    Posts

    2,106

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Pretty.
    3-4 years before Delver maybe. Wasn't it pretty non-existent from around Shards block until Innistrad? I guess if you count NO-RUG?
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  14. #74
    banned

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    black metal bed room
    Posts

    2,188

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    3-4 years before Delver maybe. Wasn't it pretty non-existent from around Shards block until Innistrad? I guess if you count NO-RUG?
    Yeah, of course, the deck was very bad in Mental Misstep era (namely when CotV decks rised in numbers) and it was far from from stellar in some other time frames.
    Basically what I had in mind... Thresh (any kind of that) was always a choice to consider, and it was pretty powerful deck. The gameplan (both the control and tempo versions, and all the colour combinations) were solid, the deck had the perfect amount of library and stack manipulation, threats and answers, it was good in the days of old and it keeps to be good in the modern times. Also, there are lots of possible builds (although some of them are called "threshold" only out of the habit, lets say pre-DRS BUG),so maybe it's more of a terminology/taxonomia/systematics affair than anything else.
    And I'm quite a fanboy of Mystic Enforcer, so call me biased.

    tl, dr: It was always a good deck, ever since Thresh-Landstill-Goblins era, but there were times when it wasn't the best choice or when it struggled to survive.

  15. #75
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    So, what you're saying is that Delver of Secrets is responsible for putting Thresh back on the map and transforming it into the modern powerhouse and DtB it is today?

  16. #76
    Bands with Others
    menace13's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2009
    Location

    NY, NY
    Posts

    1,220

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post

    Aside from that, complaining about TNN is worse than complaining about Goyf because at least Goyf is way above the curve.
    TNN is actually way more above the curve than a goyf. As a matter of fact the ONLY creature that is comparable to its ability is a 10mana one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  17. #77
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    a 10mana one.
    That is also a 10/10.

  18. #78
    Hamburglar Hlelpler
    TsumiBand's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2005
    Location

    Nebraska
    Posts

    2,774

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    [QUOTE=Bed Decks Palyer;832342]
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand
    I would play 4th Edition white bordered fetches at this point. I don't even.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
    you should be fat 12 year old in Cannibal Corpse shirt to sling that
    I am so sad that I missed the original post because it looks like it's received errata that removes this flavor text. :(

    On topic -- something something, Delver shoulda been Red, something. You know the argument, copypaste it here. I'm not wrong! I'm not. No, really. I'm just not. *staunch face of destiny*
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  19. #79
    Bands with Others
    menace13's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2009
    Location

    NY, NY
    Posts

    1,220

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    That is also a 10/10.
    That is also legendary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  20. #80
    Joe Cool Above All
    HSCK's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Posts

    664

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Why Aggro Died

    Because that makes up for it being a 10/10 for sure. TNN is closer to the Elephant than Progenitus most of the time.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)