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Thread: Aggro Goblins

  1. #1
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    Aggro Goblins

    This deck is similar to Vial Goblins in some of the creature inclusions but is distinctly different in its lack of use of Aether Vial and mana denial.

    The Goblins mana denial strategy works very well if you have an active Vial or Lackey (since you then don't really need your lands and can use them to disrupt the opponent). But otherwise it is a bit underwhelming as Goblins creatures cost more than most Legacy creatures, meaning YOUR OWN manabase is typically more demanding than the opponent's unless you can stick an accelerant. And Goblin Lackeys are just getting increasingly difficult to turn sideways these days.

    If we dispose of the Vial+Lackey engine, how else can we accelerate out Goblins? One way is to run more hard mana accelerants, e.g.:
    Ancient Tomb
    Deathrite Shaman
    Simian Spirit Guide
    Chrome Mox
    Skirk Prospector

    These can enable us to skip up to 3-5 mana sooner without having to connect with Lackeys or keep a Vial on the board. Mana accelerants also enable us to run [card]Chalice of the Void[/card] either MD or SB, shoring up the usually abysmal combo matchup in a metagame with plenty of combo and tempo.

    One direction is to double down on the turn 1 Chalice with something like this:


    //26 mana:
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    10 Mountain

    //4 non Goblin:
    4 Chalice of the Void

    //30 Goblins:
    4 Warren Instigator
    2 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Rabblemaster
    4 Goblin Matron
    3 Goblin Chieftain
    3 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    //Sideboard:
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    3 Blood Moon
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Pyrokinesis
    3 Confusion in the Ranks
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Red Elemental Blast


    Somewhere half-way between a Stompy manabase and an aggro deck.

    But instead of running so many inconsistent mana accelerants and skipping up to 3, we can also play a tokens-centric deck with a full set of [card]Skirk Prospector[/card] to help accelerate.

    Enter Goblin Rabblemaster, a card that Caleb Durwand has already taken some interest in:
    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ering-rabbles/

    I want to take his idea one step further and ditch Lackey effects altogether in favor of Prospector token goodness:



    //Goblins: 34
    4 Skirk Prospector
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    2 Goblin Piledriver
    2 Stingscourger
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    4 Goblin Matron
    3 Goblin Warchief
    3 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    //Non-Goblins: 2
    2 Goblin Bombardment

    //Mana: 24
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Ancient Tomb
    14 Mountain

    //Sideboard:
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Eidolon of the Countless Revel
    3 Boartusk Liege
    3 Confusion in the Ranks
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Pithing Needle


    This is just a rough shell. But the idea is Skirk Prospector can do cool things with so many token producers, chaining you into Ringleaders and more spells. You can pile up damage through Rabblemaster+Piledriver attacks, swarm with tokens with lord effects pumping them, or set off loads of Sharpshooter triggers. Goblin Bombardment acts as a sacrifice outlet for spare tokens, unwanted Rabblemasters (to prevent suicide bombing), or as a Sharpshooter enabler.

    Other cards to consider include:

    Boggart Shenanigans
    Siege-Gang Commander
    Tin-Street Hooligan
    Goblin Grenade
    Goblin Bushwhacker
    Legion Loyalist
    Goblin Sledder
    Mudbutton Torchrunner


    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Possibly lotus petal for a mite more explosiveness? Howling mine for some draw power? If you're going out on a limb and breaking from the traditional goblin decks, why not go far out? Love Rabblemaster in this by the by. Great add.

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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Nation Prophetic View Post
    Possibly lotus petal for a mite more explosiveness? Howling mine for some draw power? If you're going out on a limb and breaking from the traditional goblin decks, why not go far out? Love Rabblemaster in this by the by. Great add.
    Howling Mine is a bad card. Already have Ringleader and Matron for card advantage.

    Lotus Petal is strictly worse than Simian Spirit Guide in a mono-colored deck (uncounterable, can surprise beat Daze, can be deployed as a creature when you're flooded). Don't think the first list needs more than 26 mana sources after the Spirit Guides. Mox and Tomb are front runners since you want reusable mana sources. Unlike combo decks, you're not just trying to cheat one expensive thing out. You want to ramp to be able to cast many expensive things.

    Might consider splashing green in the tokens build for Fecundity and Tin-Streets.

  4. #4

    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Glimpse of nature possibly if you're splashing green? Might net you more draw so you can drop more dudes.

  5. #5
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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    In order to abuse Glimpse of Nature don't you need mana? In Elves this isn't a problem, but here... I dont know...

    @ FTW; nice to see you starting this threat. I will definitely try this out If going for the token-route, maybe a singleton Purphoros, God of the Forge Dealing damage and able to keep your tokens is waaaay more useful (but mostly cooler, hahahaha)

  6. #6
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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Here's a slightly different approach just for brainstorming purposes - Kuldotha Rebirth?

    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Signal Pest
    4 Mogg War Marshall
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    2 Goblin Bushwhacker
    3 Goblin Warchief
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Kuldotha Rebirth
    4 Lightning Bolt

    4 Darksteel Citadel
    4 Great Furnace
    10 Mountain

    Goblin Warchief is the one thing I'm not so sure about, but more haste granters is very welcome. Small artifact theme - 12 artifacts may be enough to support Kuldotha Rebirth, but maybe not. T1 Chrome Mox, Pest, Rebirth into T2 Goblin Guide or Bushwhacker is a lot of damage. You don't even have to imprint anything if you don't intend on using it past a Rebirth sac outlet.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Nice to see this thread. Thanks for making it.
    Regarding the 1st decklist, there are some concepts that i think are wrong.
    1st, playing 12 accelerants. Dont think we need that many. 10 or 9 could do it. Also, having played Ancient Tomb in goblins before, the 2nd one is usually dead. Id probably cut one of each at least.
    2nd, not running Lackey is just wrong. I get that you have the possibility to quickly play more expensive stuff, but Lackey is still awesome and should be feared by opponents. To conpliment it, i like the idea of splashing green and going for 2-3 Pendleheaven. Card is awesome with lackey and instigator. Try it out there.

    @Kuldotha list: really liked it. Needs some serious twicking though. Will try to comr up with something this weekend for it.
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  8. #8

    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Always thought Kuldotha rebirth was an excellent card. Dig that list bigtime.

  9. #9
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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    On the tokens note, how aggro can we go?


    //Creatures: 32
    4 Signal Pest
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Foundry Street Denizen
    4 Kuldotha Rebirth
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Bushwhacker
    4 Goblin Chieftain

    //Spells: 8
    4 Panic Spellbomb
    4 Lightning Bolt

    //Mana: 20
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Mox Opal
    4 Great Furnace
    10 Mountain

    //SB:
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Smash to Smithereens
    2 Goblin Grenade


    Similar Kuldotha idea, but more straight aggro. Lower curve, more haste and more explosive damage, more artifact enablers for Kuldotha. Panic Spellbomb is a trick from old Standard to synergize with Kuldotha, probably too slow for Legacy, but removing Batterskull/DRS/Goyf as a blocker on a critical turn might actually be what the aggro deck needs to push damage through. Even the threat of being able to remove a blocker in a deck with hasty Piledrivers might cause opponent to play differently. I think this gives you more consistency and more diverse angles of attack.

    I think Kuldotha is still lacking a little something to run smoothly, some other synergistic artifacts. Maybe MD Ankh of Mishra or Revokers? I'd wager Kuldotha aggro is just 4 Black Vises away from playable, with Vise upping the aggressive artifact count up just high enough to work.


    Or a non-Kuldotha swarm build:


    //Goblins: 33
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Foundry Street Denizen
    3 Legion Loyalist
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    3 Goblin Bushwhacker
    3 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster

    //Spells: 9
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Goblin Grenade
    3 Fireblast

    //Land:
    14 Mountain
    4 Cavern of Souls


    Burn reach to finish. Loyalists make those Piledrivers, Rabblemasters and Foundry Streets very dangerous!


    Or even a Raid build with a combo finish


    //Spells: 13
    4 Goblin Grenade
    3 Reckless Abandon
    3 Fireblast
    3 Howl of the Horde

    //Raiders: 28
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Skirk Prospector
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    3 Stingscourger
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    //Lands: 19
    15 Mountain
    4 Cavern of Souls


    Throwing gas at the opponent and then setting up a turn 3-4 Howl of the Horde for 12-15 damage. Howl might give the deck a fast enough clock to be able to properly "race", whereas normal aggro decks are just a tad too slow. Maindeck Stingscourgers are all about the tempo, even just bouncing a Goyf or DRS to let your early damage get through so you get that much closer to the combo kill. You make the best out of the body by sacrificing it to Prospector for mana, using it as Grenade fodder or giving it haste and swinging. Can board out Howl vs FoW decks for Price of Progress or goblins.

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    Re: Aggro Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Nice to see this thread. Thanks for making it.
    Regarding the 1st decklist, there are some concepts that i think are wrong.
    1st, playing 12 accelerants. Dont think we need that many. 10 or 9 could do it. Also, having played Ancient Tomb in goblins before, the 2nd one is usually dead. Id probably cut one of each at least.
    2nd, not running Lackey is just wrong. I get that you have the possibility to quickly play more expensive stuff, but Lackey is still awesome and should be feared by opponents. To conpliment it, i like the idea of splashing green and going for 2-3 Pendleheaven. Card is awesome with lackey and instigator. Try it out there.

    @Kuldotha list: really liked it. Needs some serious twicking though. Will try to comr up with something this weekend for it.
    Yeah, 2-3 Ancient Tomb is probably better. Don't want too much colorless.

    The idea was to experiment not running Lackey or Instigator (i.e. not relying on having to connect with 1/1s) instead of adding conditional cards to make the 1/1s suck less (e.g. Tarfire, Pendelhaven, etc.). Yeah, Lackey is still a force to be feared if unanswered. But it just seems so easy to answer it lately that it can be a real crapshoot. Countering their answers is one way, but there must be so much design space in either
    a) not running Lackey at all, freeing up other angles of attack
    b) running Lackey alongside other aggressive 1 drops where you are happy if any of them connect

    The 1st list was basically exploring a). The answer may simply be that running so many redundant accelerants and running no Lackeys (i.e. trading one kind of explosiveness for another) just leads to a less consistent deck.

    In the new post I just added, I'm basically exploring b), where Lackey is used but in a deck with a more aggro philosophy. The problem is that Lackey gets worse when only cheating out 3-drops. But the deck is also much less dependent on Lackey to work. You're happy just flinging anything at their face and piling up the damage. A big advantage is that the opponent doesn't KNOW you don't have 4-5 drops in hand and is probably going to play around Lackey to their detriment. This is something all you experienced Goblins players probably already know... you can bait opponents into misplay by simplying alpha striking with lands in hand and tricking opponent into blocking Lackey instead of killing something better. And if they don't block, free Rabblemasters and Chieftains aren't that bad :).

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