Jund:
Extirpate (anti Tranquil Ticket) and Surgical Extraction.
Pithing Needle.
Blood Moon (propably narrow, but nearly an insta win).
Slaughter Games (more narrow then Surgical/Extirpate).
Scavenging Ooze (can get out of PFire range).
Deathrite Shaman (soft to PFire).
Ruination/or the one that flips non-basic to basics.
Decay/Deed on Exploration/Bond/Mox.
Liliana of the Veil AND 20+ life.
Diabolic Edict.
Jund on overall has a terrible MU against RG Lands. I would probably only board against it if the hate also helps in other MU's, like BMoon vs Eldrazi/Aggro Loam or Extirpate vs Reanimator/Manaless dredge. Otherwise YOLO it and hope for the best.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Originally Posted by Chatto
You can't stifle the Dark Depths trigger (the way you want), but you can stifle the Thespian's Stage activation to copy the DD. However, that only gets you one turn...
Last edited by non-inflammable; 09-26-2016 at 06:45 PM.
Just brainstorming, but what about Dead // Gone? Unsummons if you need it, kills if you don't.
This could be alright. Thanks. And thanks to the other guys who answered as well. I actually run most of those things in my 75 (Needle, Shamanx4, ScOoze, Slaughter Games, Surgical, Deed). Still not enough. Might try Blood Moon, but I figured I may not run enough basics (8)...anybody else running Blood Moon in the board and how has it worked? I currently have:
3x Slaughter Games
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Choke
2x Golgari Charm
3x REB/Pyroblast
2x Pithing Needle
1x Vexxing Shusher
Probably could nix the Shusher and one REB for a couple of Blood Moons maybe...
As i said, Lands is a very difficult MU. Boarding more means you lose something against other MU's. And that is not really worth it.
Your SB suggestions sounds very fine to me and is about the only thing you could do at this point.
Dead/Gone can work, but this deck is propably to slow for one shots.
And 8 basics is more then fine.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
If you're on Scapeshift you can always try Ensnaring Bridge. Could just buy you the time you need to assemble the combo finish.
Something else i have been wondering for JUND (non scape) is Chandra, ToD.
+1: CA, but hitting lands is kind of shitty
+1: RR van help cast bombs or launch multiple PFires
-3: clear soms threats, but lackluster
Ulti: Seems gamewinning, especially next to PFire.
Just for the sake of, i'm going to try 2 copies.
On the Chandra note, i have been playing Chandra, Flamecaller as a one-off and it has been very VERY good. Every ability is relevant and she murders Miracles, DnT and whatnot.
The main thing with these Chandra's is the RR required that forces us to run 2 copies of basic Mountain. And because it does, i am highly suggesting to run Stormbreath Dragon as a 2-off. Which i am a fan of aswell.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I was just thinking - with the exorbitant number of shuffle effects we run, wouldn't Scroll Rack be a pretty awesome card. Exile a bunch of cards we don't want, draw a bunch of new ones, shuffle the old crap away.
Sucks w/ Deed and vs. Abrupt Decay though.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Seems pretty poor. SDT does a good job of filtering already and replaces itself, Rack is card disadvantage and needs cards in hand to filter. Since we're spending most of our resources to gain on board advantage rather than cards in hand I don't see it working very well.
Alright folks, I've decided that the time is now. That'll give us a full month before Eternal Weekend, and a little bit less than that for Eternal Extravaganza for whoever is going to that (I'm personally not currently planning on it, but may be persuaded as the time draws near).
Here's my current list for Sneaky Fit:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
sb::
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
2 Shriekmaw
2 Slaughter Games
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Gaze of Granite
With the list out of the way, I'll deviate a little into some historical talk to provide a conceptual grounding, and then I'll move into my decision process card by card.
First of all, yes, I'm aware that this looks more like a cube deck than most Nic Fits already do. That is partially because, if I'm being blunt and honest, it was originally inspired by one of the sickest cube decks I've ever seen, which featured Sneak Attack, Demonic Tutor, Meren, and titans. Being an experimental kind of guy, I immediately went, "huh," and proceeded to start brewing. The result was a bit different from where I'm at now, but not incredibly far off. I think I was actually almost there with the first draft, which is kind of scary. At this point, it's just tuning.
The concept of the deck is that Sneak Attack is a broken as fuck card. Something that cube reminds you of is that Sneak Attack is busted strong even when you aren't putting out Grisel/Emrakul, as we're all used to seeing from Sneak/Show. Even just Sneaking a Titan or a Thragtusk or whatever is still super devastating. This opens up a design space that I don't think has ever been considered before: being a Sneak Attack deck that is also capable of casting its fatties. Traditional Sneak Attack decks have a crippling weakness in that once their cheatyface mechanic is shut down (Needle, Revoker, discard+surgical, whatever), their monsters just rot in their hand and they have few//no other ways to get them out, depending on the type of Sneak deck. We don't have that problem. My deck is specifically designed to be able to cast everything, from the easy ones (titans and under) to and including the tough ones (grisel and emrakul). Furthermore, my deck doesn't run out of gas after the first Sneak (assuming they live through the first sneak). It's very likely that one of three scenarios will occur:
-) You'll Sneak Primeval Titan, grabbing Volraths+Phyrexian. You proceed to recur and Sneak Primeval every turn until they die and/or you have no lands left in your deck.
-) You'll Sneak Griselbrand, either via naturally drawing him or tutoring for him with Fierce Empath. You will proceed to draw at least 7 cards, which is absolutely psychotic in Nic Fit in general, let alone when you have an active Sneak Attack.
-) You'll have an active Meren, or a Zenith to accomplish such.
Every now and then you'll run into a situation where you're stalled out and waiting for a topdeck to end the game, Scapewish style. The Sidisi and the Tracker are a bit of insurance against that, as is the bomb-heavy hypermana construction of the deck itself. Nonetheless, that is something that happens now and again, and is something that I think does need fixed by people who are better at tuning than I am.
So, what we end up with is a Nic Fit that looks something like this:
-) Still has the core strengths of Nic Fit. Very disruptive early game while ramping towards game ending bombs.
-) Has the potential for inhuman godhands. I've turned 2'd TES and turn 3'd Elves. These draws require Tower/Vet starts, unfortunately, but as we know, those /do/ happen some% of the time.
-) Extremely resilient in grindy matchups. Given enough time, the deck WILL cast Emrakul. I've won several games that way. The deck has 15 mana producing lands, with two Deathrites and one double-land (Phyrexian Tower).
-) Attacks from a very sneaky (and hard to interact with) angle. I've played games vs opponents who did not know what I was up to, where I played + activated Sneak on turn 4 and just flat killed them. Like, it's an open field, I have 6 mana, I play Sneak, it resolves, I Sneak Empath, grab Mom's Spaghetti, and tentacle them to death. And they're like, what the fuck was that as they scoop up their cards.
-) Faster combo than Scapeshift, and debateably a more resilient one. I can win on turn 3 or turn 4 easily, whereas Scape needs a godhand and a half to win on turn 4, with turn 6 or so being more common. In addition, Green Sun's Zenith is a combo piece, which is absurd.
-) Gets to run red sideboard cards. Slaughter Games and Pyroclasm are the main hits here, although K-Command, Dead//Gone, REB/Pyro, and a couple other considerations are also notable.
Let's go card by card, and then I'll conclude with my thoughts on the deck itself and why I think it's so good that I hid the deck for three months.
4 Vet: no duh.
2 Deathrite + 2 Sakura-Tribe: the deck runs off of a hypermana shell, similarly to Scapewish, except that we get to run Deathrite Shaman instead of Wood Elves because we care more about the mana in a timely manner and less about pulling lands out of the deck. Maindecking 2 Deathrites also gives us a little bit of help against Lands and Burn, which are two of the closer matchups for the deck. Sneaking a Deathrite to block and then gain 2 life is surprisingly powerful, as well. Sakura-Tribe is a bit better than average in this deck (which I always value it higher than most as it is), because the deck is very focused on abusing Meren to the utmost. I don't want more than 2 Deathrites because there's only room for 7 fetches, and Sakura is still the next best ramp guy. I strongly recommend staying at 8 ramp creatures. If you really want to run something that's not a Sakura, you can get away with Wood Elves or Nissa, but they're not as good.
1 Eternal Witness: Trusty ole E.Wit is much better than average in this shell. I've contemplated a second a couple of times, but I haven't actually tried it. Sneaking E.Wit lets you do a lot of very tricky interactions, and she's very good at protecting combo pieces -- especially since Sneak Attack itself is hard to kill and can't be exiled by Deathrite. On that topic, you can Sneak Attack E.Wit out in response to a Deathrite activation to regrow whatever they target, which is a neat interaction. You really need to think about all the possible things E.Wit can do at instant speed in this deck -- she provides a ton of utility beyond just being "good" like she is in most Nic Fit decks.
1 Fierce Empath: This guy is an MVP. We've all kind of gone back and forth on him over the ages, but in this particular shell, he's legitimately one of the best cards in the deck. He makes it so that, with an active Sneak Attack, you have at least 7 draws that win the game instantly, not counting the various Titans, Meren, and other bullshit (Empath himself, 4 Zenith, Griselbrand, Emrakul). Even better is that if you use him to get Emrakul, and you can kill him off (Tower, Therapy, having Snuck him), he shuffles back into the deck and can grab Emrakul again -- which is a line that I've taken to win a game, by Sneaking Empath for Emrakul, they both die, resolve Empath dying first, Zenith for Empath next turn. Still fine to use fairly, as well, since he tutors Inferno and Griselbrand (and Primeval, but you'd usually want to Zenith for Primeval).
1 Tracker: plays well with the hypermana shell, plays well with providing card flow to a deck that has all of the mana. Just kind of a generically fine card.
1 Meren: as mentioned several times, Meren is one of the centerpieces of this deck. This is the Meren deck that we all dreamed of when she was spoiled. Karakas is still a pain in the ass for her, but the deck can pretty easily beat anything else that they try to do to stop her from taking over the game. Sneak Attack itself ramps Meren's counters, as does the 2x Sakura, but realistically, her xp counters are kind of the cherry on top. Her real value here is by ensuring that you never run out of thing to throw at people, because you control the order of the triggers at end step. If you have Meren out, and you Sneak something ... let's say Griselbrand ... you can choose to have Griselbrand die with Meren's trigger still on the stack, which then can target Griselbrand, which allows you to Sneak Griselbrand to block with on your opponent's turn.
1 Thragtusk: Good ole Swaggy is still truckin'. Phenomenal Sneak Attack creature, also great to Zenith as always. Abusive with Meren or Two Towers. Etc.
1 Sidisi: This was suggested to me by Zirath, and she pulled her weight the only time I've played the deck with her in it, so, she's still here. She's fine to use fairly, or she's a Demonic Tutor for R, which happens to also be abusive with Meren. She's capable of grabbing both Sneak Attack or something to kill them with, which is a nice degree of stability. I wish she was 3BG instead of 3BB so we'd have a Zenithable way to tutor for Sneak, but, meh. Can't have it all.
1 Primeval, 1 Inferno, 1 Griselbrand, 1 Emrakul: This is the top-end package. I've evaluated a /lot/ of bomb creatures, and these are the four that I settled on after a lot of consideration. You're all welcome to try other bombs if you want, but don't ask me if I've considered Grave Titan/Giant Adephage/Worldspine Wurm/Cataclysmic Gearhulk/etc whatever. I've looked at all of them and found them inferior to these 4. These four give you everything you need: stability, removal/reach, life/card draw, and game-ending terror, respectively.
4 Therapy: core is core.
4 Green Sun's Zenith: core is also core. Card is stupidly good in this shell in particular, while it kind of lags behind in some other builds.
2 Decay / 1 Maelstrom Pulse: I like this spot removal suite. I wouldn't mind having a hair more removal maindeck, but space is a problem, as always. Having the one Pulse to clean up random 2x Goyf draws or Jace TMS is always nice -- the singleton Pulse has hauled my ass out of a lot of fires over the years. Decay is Decay. It's generic, it's good.
4 Sneak Attack: the other centerpiece of the deck, obviously. I was originally on three because I was worried about drawing duplicates, but I quickly realized that duplicate Sneaks are good in the same way that duplicate Scapeshifts are: they NEED to answer this card, and if they can't, they just flat lose. It's common that the first Sneak will get Forced, but the second will resolve, or the first will get blown up by like Council's Judgment or something, but the second sticks around. Etc.
3 Deed: even though Deed has lost some stock in recent months, I think that the full 3 is still correct here. First of all, we are a hypermana shell. We will have the mana to pump into it much more than, say, a GBW control build will. Second and more importantly, it creates a devil's choice for opponents with Pithing Needle / Revoker: do they hit Deed, or do they hit Sneak? Both are equally capable of ruining board states, and if they guess wrong (or we have both), they're up shit creek without a paddle.
Manabase: fairly standard mana base here, although I shaved the 8th fetch in order to squeeze in the 15th mana producing land. 7 basics because hypermana -- you have 2 Tribe-Elders to worry about, and you're actively looking to set off as many Vets as you can. Sneak Attacking Vets to block with (or even just to ramp/thin) is a real thing.
Sideboard concerns:
Sideboards can always, and indeed should always change. This is just what I have atm, and shows you a little of what I'm thinking about in terms of matchups:
2 Surgical, 2 Slaughter, 2 Thoughtseize: 6 dedicated combo cards, with a couple others like Rec Sage flexing in for specific combos like Painter. These 6 give you a couple angles of attack against most of the major combo decks. Something to keep in mind about this deck is that you can easily turn into the beatdown vs combo, which is not something that any other Nic Fit is capable of doing. It's very possible that you Therapy or Thoughtseize them to slow them down for a turn or two, and then you just kill them, which is not something that combo decks appreciate. This is one reason, among several, why Reanimator is so good against other combo decks. It has disruption backed with the threat of a very, very fast clock out of nowhere.
2 Finks: mostly for Burn and a decent board in vs Miracles and Delver just as a guy. Also fine vs some combo decks as an early beatstick that adds +1 storm.
1 Rec Sage: Pithing Needle and Ensnaring Bridge are common hate cards, so being able to Zenith up an answer to those is nice. Also good vs a random smattering of decks including Miracles.
2 Pyroclasm / 2 Shriekmaw: your extra removal for Delver, Eldrazi, DnT, and Shardless. Shriekmaw can turn abusive vs Eldrazi very easily -- you just set it up with Meren or Volraths and they can't win any more. It's also a great Sneak Attack.
Eugene, the Spirit Dragon: Mostly for Miracles and Shardless, just as an extra huge bomb that is basically unbeatable for both decks. It clears out planeswalkers, Counterbalances, Mentors, basically anything that they have that's annoying, and then it sits there bolting them to death afterward -- or, if you don't need to clear, his ult is instantly game ending.
Gaze of Granite: pretty stock for my lists at this point, honestly. It's a Deed activation that clears out Planeswalkers, with a variable CMC so you don't need to worry about Counterbalance or Sanctum Prelate.
----------------------
Phew. Long type. Here's some quick summary thoughts for you guys about why I think it's as good as I do, and then I'll let you at it.
What we have here is the truest, most seamless fusion of Nic Fit's ramp/control style with a true combo that we've yet seen. It's intrinsically powerful and has a strong gameplan regardless of opponent -- you are effective vs a top-tier deck as you are vs someone's random kitchen table deck with this. It's in Jund colors, which gives it the best access to sideboard options of any combination.
I'll warn you: it doesn't look like much, in the way that most of the greatest Nic Fit decks have a tendency towards. Proxy it up and give it some jams, and then make up your mind about it. It's a lot stronger, a lot smoother, and a hell of a lot more fun than it looks on paper.
As far as matchups go, the only matches where I've felt disadvantaged are some builds/some draws of Miracles, Lands, and super fast combo decks with strong hands (I include Burn in this category). None of these matchups felt unwinnable. I think the worst matchup for the deck outside of the super fast combo decks (which are always a coin flip based on who wins the die roll and what each hand looks like), is probably Lands, and even then, I think it's somewhere around a 60-40 in their favor, maybe even 55-45. It's not nearly as bad as a lot of other builds, and it basically just comes down to if they have a fast Merit Lage or not.
Everything else feels like we are advantaged.
So go forth, proxy and play and test and crush and tune. I'll be active for the next couple months after lurking the last few ... if you have any questions, comments, etc, let's hear them. We've got a month to get this thing tuned up to the best it can possibly be.
I don't think the Meren/Sneak interaction works how you say it does. Both triggers go on the stack at the beginning of the end step, and while you can have the sacrifice resolve first, Meren's trigger targets a card in your 'yard so you have to pick a target before the Sneaked creature dies.
Deck looks sweet though.
This is going to sound ludicrous, but have you (Kevin) ever considered running a pair of Orcish Lumberjack? That card can generate stupid amounts of mana by turn two, getting Sneak Attack in play and online for a turn-two board wipe or ramp with Titan either cheated into play or hardcast. I think it's a criminally underplayed card, and it seems to fit (on paper, at least) in a shell like this that leans more on red.
I mean, think about it:
1. Fetch->Taiga, Lumberjack.
2. Fetch->Forest, tap Forest(G), tap Taiga (R), sacrifice (RRR), drop Sneak Attack, activate. Thanks for playing.
Hell, you could even go natural:
1. Fetch->Taiga, Lumberjack.
2. Phyrexian Tower, tap Taiga (G)->sacrifice to Lumberjack (GGG), sacrifice Lumberjack to Tower (BB), play Titan.
That seems powerful.
Problem with Lumberjack is that it's terribad if you aren't activating it on turn two and makes you hugely open to countermagic in ways that Vet and DRS don't. I think you'd rather use the slots on additional copies of Tower if you wanted to ramp harder.
But Tower doesn't ramp you into the mana you need to power out a turn two Sneak Attack without needing to invest in more basic Mountains. You still wouldn't even have activation mana open. It also taps for colorless, which is bad under the aforementioned circumstances. You have a one-mana "tap" investment with the turn-one Lumberjack, as opposed to having to cast Explorer and Therapy from the hand on consecutive turns. This deck already has so much land that you can recover much easier than a deck like Sneak and Show, and Lumberjack even gets you around Daze with the open land on turn two.
So unless an opponent has a Force, you win. If not, you just push ahead as normal and power out threats with the Lumberjack unchecked.
EDIT: Also, there are a lot of cards and situations that are less than stellar unless utilized by turn two. The thing is, this deck is built for inevitability with a combo baked into its fabric. If you want to play combo without counter-magic, you should protect it with Therapy or power it out as soon as you possibly can before your opponent stabilizes their situation. A card like O.L. will scare the crap out of an opponent, and would likely draw a Bolt or Plow that would otherwise be used on something more valuable.
My point is, if there ever were a deck in the history of Legacy that Orcish Lumberjack fits into, this is it - hands down.
Well, here I was ready for Eternal Weekend, but as it turns out I'm in Columbus that weekend already... for a different convention.
I can't help but wonder how this is different from most Nic Fit lists. The deck looks fun and maybe it is truly much better than the other 100 lists in this topic, but I'll remain sceptical until someone starts to consistently make results with it. It seems to suffer from the same thing a typical Nic Fit deck suffers from: a poor early game without the right cards (you don't always have Vet + Cabal). The list looks clunky and inconsistent with tons of 1-offs. Granted, you acknowledge this somewhat in your post, which is nice. It's just that the 'arrogance' with which the text is written puts me a bit off. The presentation of the deck is like we should all worship you for creating this masterpiece, but without actual results the list just looks like any other weird Nic Fit thing. I'm sure it can work great in weekly tournaments of a few rounds, but that's not where Nic Fit typically struggles the most anyway. It is getting tough when you have 6+ rounds to play and that's why Nic Fit hasn't been a DTB for a very long time now. Please prove me wrong, but I don't see this making any waves in the meta (unfortunately).
Well, working out a new list and proposing ideas in a thread is a "lot" of work.
Sure playing Magic is a passion but still when one put many efforts, before any judgment takes place, you should at least proxy the deck by yourself and give it a spin.
Which is something Arian is asking for.
10 games is not a lot and at least it gives you enough feelings to share.
@ Arian: Thanks for the writing and as usual you give me a lot of food for thoughts. Keep posting...
Legacy & Homebrew **ONLY**
Brown Stax
Rainbow SWAT
Dimir Mill
Morph my Ride
Wally Wallah
Corona Syndrome
I've top 8'd with this deck every time I've played it in a major event (3 times in events with 32+ people). I play at Mythic Games in upstate New York, which is home to some of the toughest legacy specialist competition you'll find anywhere -- it's the descendant of Jupiter Games, before that scene fell apart. Both times I've played it at Mythic (I skipped this month for personal reasons, and I'm likely blocked out of October based on scheduling), I top 8'd....the first time, I top 4'd. My record with the deck is something like 26-4-3, and a large portion of those are against damn fine players. I created and popularized Scapewish, and I'm saying that this deck is -- flat out -- better than Scape was at it's strongest point. If that doesn't mean anything to you, then that's fine.
At the end of the day, I'm not here to argue my pedigree, and I'm sorry if my post sounds arrogant to you. I'm not an arrogant person, as any of the large number of people whom I've interacted with in this thread in person can assure you. But make no mistake that I am confidant in the deck.
Let's examine your claim that the deck is inconsistent:
Assuming a non-monkey playing the deck with reasonably intelligent mulligan decisions (ie, no keeping 6 land + Sneak Attack), you're going to have some combination of cards:
Zenith + lands + Sneak, maybe Therapy
Deed + VetX + lands + Decay
Sneak + VetX + Therapy + lands, maybe monster
Zenith, monster, Top, lands
Etc. Of these, only #3 is "nuts." But it's not like the other hands don't also have things to do. You say the deck looks inconsistent, to which I'll say two things:
A: I specifically warned people in my post that the deck plays a hell of a lot better than it looks. Looks are deceiving. Don't judge off of looks.
B: The deck is only inconsistent based on how you define inconsistency. If you say it's inconsistent because it can't pull together VetX + Therapy every game, you're right. We could run 4 Vet, 4 Therapy, 4 Zenith, 4 Innocent Blood, and it would still have trouble with that without blue cantrips to tie things together...which negatively impacts speed and deck construction. But if you say it's inconsistent because it can't execute its gameplan a reasonably high% of games, well, that's just flat wrong.
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@Hollywood: I hadn't actually considered Lumberjack, and it's an interesting thought. It's ostensibly more powerful ramp than Deathrite or Sakura, but you can't Zenith for it, which weakens your utility. The only thing that truly gives me pause is that it's a pretty awful topdeck. It might be a bit more explosive than Sakura, especially, early game, but Sakura has enough other tiny synergies and utility functions that I /think/ Sakura still edges it out.
I also think that LUmberjack's value goes up substantially in a world where we have a range of powerful planeswalkers to drop early with it (the new 4-drop Chandra especially comes to mind, as that doesn't even require any nonsense draws to plop down on turn 2 with Daze protection).
List looks fun as hell. Makes me want to jam online again.
Have you had much testing against Miracles? Every time I play a league online I find myself up against 2-3 Miracles decks and it just flat out always drains the life out of me. I seriously will not play any legacy deck while Miracles is dominant unless it seems favorable, and nic fit has always seemed way disfavored. Could be my own bias and poor experience though. Seems like blowing up their Top at end of their turn to prevent a Terminus as you sneak in for a kill could be a usual line of play.
I've done a fair bit. Nahiricles is still rough because Nahiri backed by removal/counter/etc is just hell to deal with, but basically nobody plays that version because it loses ground vs non-mirror. I've won a couple games vs Miracles by just looping Inferno Titan with Volrath/Phyrexian with a Sneak in play and just slowly burning them out -- they can't interact with that at all. Given enough time, you hardcast Emrakul on them -- before you get to that point, the game basically revolves around not getting Jaced to death and not letting Mentor / Entreat kill you. If you can manage to engineer a board state where you resolve a Sneak Attack, you probably win, even if it means that they resolve a Jace.
Postboard it gets a lot better, since you -4 Vet -4 Therapy for +2 Slaughter, +1 Gaze, +1 Eugene, +2 Surgical, +1 Rec Sage, +1 Kitchen Finks, and you just attack their deck. Slaughter out Jace, Surgical away StP/Terminus, etc. Everything else is just to help you go toe to toe as the game progresses -- the 1 Finks isn't the greatest thing in the world, and you could certainly bring in Shriekmaw instead, but the concept is basically just that you need another body to pressure with, and I'd rather have a 3-drop than a 5-drop.
Oh, something else that's important:
Remember Sneak Attack tricks. Karakas does not stop Sneak Attack with a legendary creature as long as you have an extra red mana up, and you can use Sneak on their end step and have the creature stick around until your end step. Both of those have won me games.
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