Recently online I have been seeing a lot of gy decks like lands and reanimator. I'm sure you guys have talked about it already, but what's the consensus on the 4leylines vs surgicals?
Ooze got eventually cut because it's too slow when it's needed, and otherwise is mediocre in my opinion, I like it more in small dudes decks like loam decks, elves and maverick.
I play Drs main and 2 surgicals in the sb, but I feel like they're not enough.
Leylines would shut down without trouble reanimator decks and lands, giving us time to land a rhino/Sigarda and win. I'm seriously tempted to make the swap, what's the general consensus on the matter?
Leylines does some nice splash damage va storm too
Surgicals are generally a better option since they are also playable against Miracles and Storm rather than just Reanimator decks. Lands also is going to bring in Krosan Grip against you anyway.Originally Posted by rubblekill
I'd go up to 3 Surgical and run a Scavenging Ooze if you're having trouble against graveyard combo decks.
I'd rather have Surgical than Leyline against Storm.
Against fast gy decks ooze is slow, it is good only occasionally, because we have no way of filling our gy fast with little dudes (although when it's good, ooze is awesome).
I'm so annoyed by those dumb BR grieselbrand decks, that's why I wanted to change..probably 3rd surgical is better as you say though..
And what about the blue splash? Atraxa is cheap and amazing, while leovold..he is broken but not in our deck imo.
We cannot protect it with symbiote or cavern harpy, so he is a 3/3 for 3 that dies to everything. Not something I'm interested in when I play Nic Fit.
My question is: beside atraxa, what are the U cards to play in the side that can help us in critical mu?
Flusterstorm, invasive surgery are probably the cards we need. But what about negate? Unlike flusterstorm and surgery can snipe a JTMS, while countering everything cast by combo decks.
I'll start with 2 negates 2 invasive surgery (good against miracles, storm, lands...in other words bad mu), but I want to hear more opinions from you all. This is my starting point:
It probably is an abomination - as all 4c decks usually are - but bear with me. The deck is equipped to have game against everything. The main is the usual 8 rhino + atraxa (the reason to splash U), so in G1 we are favored against everything non miracles non combo non lands.
You will see that I have quite the amount of 5-6 drops (3 in total), but I don't know what to cut, if I want to cut something at all. Dromoka is a staple in my lists, he is the win button against drazi which is a very common deck. Nissa is the best pw we can play so I won't cut her. Probably Sigarda is the cut: we have 2 more flyers, she is mana intensive in a 4c deck and she is only REALLY good against LoTV decks. I think Nissa and Dromoka replaced Sigarda in my configurations, at least they do at the moment.
The sideboard has more blue cards: we have a lot of hate in the form of hate bears, discard, counterspells, surgicals. Basic stuff that seem good against all kinds of combo decks, miracles (lost legacy is good here, and the counters can surprise them when they cast miracles; negate seems decent against JTMS, even though I know you guys feel strongly against this counterspell).
Probably we are weak to gy decks, and this would require 4 leylines or the 3rd surgical, but I have a hard time finding more space.
Finally I wanted to play more tracker (the dude is a lot better than painful truth, baits removal spells like a champ, draws a million cards and becomes a threat fast). In the 3 color builds I play 2 and sometimes even 3 (in test builds. I more often than not play just 2). I don't know if in the 4c build there is space for more copies, right now I feel like I want more draw spells, probably Nissa's ult fills that need.
This is a starting point, opinions and suggestions?
Last edited by rubblekill; 12-25-2016 at 11:26 AM.
Leovold dies to most things but always puts you up cards when he does.
Baleful Strix is a good option against a lot of decks. Also works well with Stoneforge.
I edited my post.
Even tracker does the same for a easier mana cost, and he can draw even more cards. And cannot be bounced by Karakas. The effect of Leovold is of course strong, but it remains so as long as Leo is alive, which is usually not a lot of time. Tracker just draws more cards and becomes big, I feel I like it more.
If we could protect Leo like Aluren or Elves do I'd play it immediatly, but in Nic Fit I don't like him.
Strix is good but is not tutorable, as you can see I play plenty of removal spells. Blessed alliance is a control-ish card that I like more against big monsters.decks.
I don't play SFM so it's not like strix becomes better for that reason!
I would cut Thragtusk, Grave Titan, and Meren for 3 other cards. You need to operate on a lower curve against D&T.
I like Leyline when I can devote 4 slots, Surgical when I can't. Surgical is a better card to combo with Therapy too. Leyline is just so powerful when you get it down though. Sometimes that's just what you need to deal with certain decks.
Don't forget Crop Rotation either. It gets either Karakas or Bojuka Bog. Both are great against BR Reanimator.
I find the reanimator matcheck up is a lot closer when you don't run leylines because you're forced to interact more. Other than therapy in the main I run 3 thoughtsieze in the board along side 3 surgical. I bring them all in because I found that stripping their reanimaton spells from their hand seems to work fine as a strategy. However, i feel likr this means that you need to have either need ooze or a death rite (or both) in your list to compliment these and really punish them.
Personally I find it more engaging to have to grind them down rather than having a catch all, but it depends on how you want your board to look and what your meta game is.
G2 and G3 aren't all that bad. The only way they'll really get you is when they have the nuts, which you can't really do anything about (unless you run Leylines).
Last game I faced vs. BR Reanimator, his T1 was Reanimate Griselbrand, Exhume Elesh Norn, Animate Dead Iona. I'm not shitting you. The guy was surprised himself.
I haven't played nicfit in about 3-4 years. Anyone have a kind list I can use to start off with?
There lot of variants out there, what did you play back then?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I played rector. Last time I played it was before the legend rule change. I still have the deck but I figured I'd try something new.
Coming from Rector i'd say the Starfield version is pretty sweet. But if you want something else you could check either of my sig's for the junk (modrange'isch) and Jund (grindy) versions. Otherwise there is the 4c Atraxa version, Sneak Attack version or ScapeWish. The Last is something you probably familiar with. Personally i always circle back to the Jund PFire build despite of which is considered 'best'. Friends of Mine keep saying NicFit is a bad deck. Some nice stuff got printed, builds get all over the place. So i guess there something for everyone here.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Been testing the GB build some more, I'm hoping to get a good testing session in, in the next couple days if I can convince someone to get on XMage with me.
I like where it's at, but it needs a couple more modifications and I need to figure out a SB. Unfortunately, in the opening hand it feels like you're only playing 20 lands because of Maze+Arbor. But the deck ramps quickly. Games with Maze seem to plateau around 8 mana while non maze games go to 10. This is making me want to consider increasing the curve some more.
Chameleon Colossus is hitting really hard, but without good evasion I feel like it's stopped a bit too easily. The deck gets enough mana that you can easily activate it twice in a turn though. The 7th basic has been fantastic and I really like Liliana. I think the list could stand to use a 4 mana walker in place of something lower on the curve but I haven't yet decided what or what walker. Either 4 mana Garruk would probably be reasonable. The cut might be SDT #3.
Here's how it stands at the moment, I was able to work in the second Crop Rotation to reasonable success.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rock-fit-2/
I'm finding certain hands really clunky though, and the deck to not mulligan as well as the versions with white in it.
Starfield uses Rectors, it's a really neat build but development has been slow on it... it's not super popular and events are scarce, most who took up the deck play in paper.
Otherwise, Rector builds mostly morphed into Rhino builds as the "base" Junk build of choice.
I don't know the Rector builds well but your base for Rhino probably starts off with something like
21-22 land
2 colorless lands (towers, strongholds, etc)
dryad arbor (maybe, lots of debate for and against on this)
4 vet
2 drs
1 pridemage
1 scavenging ooze
1 eternal witness
1-2 tireless tracker (I like 2, it's frequently shaved to 1 though)
1 courser (maybe, it does dumb things with SDT)
4 rhino
1 sigarda
1 nissa, vital force
4 gsz
4 therapy
2+ top (SDT has become a favorite in recent months, it's very good)
sylvan library/painful truths (i like truths more)
10+ removal including deeds
Starfield is excellent. Seriously, currently IMO in terms of deck strength:
1. Starfield and Sneak Attack
2. 4C Atraxa
3. Scapeshift, Rhinos
4. Other (BUG Pod, Punishing Jund, straight GB)
Obviously there are consistency issues, but the sheer power of both decks is just unmatched. They both have a ton of plays which absolutely have to be answered immediately or they just run away with the game.
I'm seriously thinking that 4-5 mana noncreature permanents are a great place for Nic Fit to be right now, since dodging Decay and Swords means very few decks play answers to our stuff beyond FOW.
Just chiming in quickly to note that I agree with basically all of this post.
Can confirm. Deck is super strong, and your opponents are confused. Deck is pretty hard to get used to because of multi-turn line development
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4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
sb::
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
2 Slaughter Games
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter
Minor updates to the sideboard, but I want to provide an updated list for anyone heading to Louisville and planning on Sneaking up on some people.
Is tracker coming in for grindy matchups for card advantage, combo as a way to close quickly without Sneak, or both?
Both. It lets you turn Bellower into a source of card advantage vs the grind, but it also lets you shave top-end for a lower cmc, more rapidly online clock vs combo.
No use for dovescape?
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