[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Echelon]

I watched something very similar to that list in action last night and I was not in the slightest bit impressed. No disrespect but it just seems like EDH fit the dream. By playing cloudpost in nic fit, ramp in ramp, you are creating the inception deck. A dream in a dream. It needs focus and a game plan. Mana and fatties equal wins but theres gotta be a plan.

So far random EDH shit has done admirably for me. People just don't know how to react to it, lol.

@Arianrhod: Nice to see the Empath is working out for you.

[sdematt]

Playset of autographed English Rhinos up for grabs. Send me a PM.

[Echelon]

Pimp my rhino, lol. Nailed it.

[Jain_Mor]

Yo, update from across the pond. There was a legacy tournament with 44 attendees (I couldn't make it -.-)

Scapewish fit with two maindeck slaughter games won the event, and junk pod fit also made top 8.
Here are the lists for anyone that cares:

http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2016/0...p-8-decklists/

[Echelon]

That Pod-list runs the craziest manabase I've ever seen. OMG.

[Navsi]

Yo, update from across the pond. There was a legacy tournament with 44 attendees (I couldn't make it -.-)

Scapewish fit with two maindeck slaughter games won the event, and junk pod fit also made top 8.
Here are the lists for anyone that cares:

http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2016/0...p-8-decklists/

That's me. Slaughter Games was Maindeck because of the number of Miracles I expected and for better outs to combo (played Dredge once, Combo Lands twice, Miracles once).

[Echelon]

Congrats on the result! I would love to read a report (if you have the time and feel like writing one, ofcourse).

How did the manabase perform for you?

[Bobmans]

Holy shit, a blink of an eye and the world passes by...

That's me.

Congrats to you and the Pod Pilot ;-)

Playset of autographed English Rhinos up for grabs. Send me a PM.

I bet you lose those Rhino's pretty quick. I'll let you sign my Jap Signed ones if i'd ever stumble upon you.

So far random EDH shit has done admirably for me. People just don't know how to react to it, lol.

People got to give cards a chance before discarding them. I mean, Gurmag Angler wtf... like that shit is ok, but it works.

That's gotta be the new official name. It's too good. Impressive pic btw.
I want to run your list this weekend. What tweaks would you make for a meta dominated by delver + miracles + sneak show?

I'd probably drop the 2 Lillianas. Not sure what goes in...Teeg and QPM? Or do I shave a PTE as well and go 1 Teeg 2 G.Charm main deck? Zero DRS makes me very nervous.

One important aspect of the build how i see it, is that it doesn't focus on a specific meta, but has the ability (so i believe) to perform in a random/wider field.
Rather then tweaking it for a specific meta i was looking for something that focusses more on what it is good and and grabs the most flexible of sideboard cards. Maybe this way i loose some against certain decks, but may have a better perfomance on overall at the end of the day. This is my philosophy towards the build.
That Delver, Miracles and SneakShow meta, if i assume it is consolidated to those decks only i would probably play a completely different build, say PFire NicFit, but: I can understand if you'd want to stay true to that build so i'll limit myself to minor changes.

Ethersworn Cannonist; is the least useful card here, so that opens up 2 slots in the board.
Liliana of the Veil; i do not think she is that terrible vs SneakShow and vs Miracles. Imagine having both Teeg and Liliana out against SneakShow. Anyhow, against Delver i would board her out, but she present's us an out against big dudes like Emrakul on a SnT.
Painful Truth's; Against Hymn and against Lightning Bolt i will board this card out. Every point of life will be important against Grixis and against Hymn you'd probably want to be hellbent with SDT floating possible answers.
Deathrite Shaman; Not having those main makes us focus on our true plan game 1. Because our focus will be ramping on lands with Vet/Therapy and Courser/Nissa/Top follow-up we generate a hig velocity and can overwhelm our opponent with quick Rhino's, while generating cardadvantage and keep the board clear. Deathrite Shaman is more a jack-of-all-trades, but with a low impact. G2/3 it can act as a Veteran Explorer replacement rather then Carpet of Flowers and be a treat on it's own.
Deathrite Shaman should be something of the following: Removal magnet, non-symmetrical mana dork, early pressure/clock, graveyard hate and/or lifegain. While being able to fullfil these roles, more often then not i found it's effect underwhelming or unreliable. On the other hand, against certain matchup's it's presence is more important. Ralf actually suggested running DRS on the board not to long ago, but i did that back in 2012 when i was struggling against Miracles and was reminded by him asbout that. So this opens a more focussed gameplan G1 with added tools G2/3.

That said; I'd run a Pithing Needle and an Extirpate instead of the Ethersworn Cannonist. Peedle is obvious, but Extirpate specifically because it dodges countermagic from SnT and Miracles which can give you a slight edge.

Board plans:

Delver
-1 Karakas
-2 Liliana of the Veil
-2 Painful Truth's
(-1 Veteran Explorer)

+4 Deathrite Shaman
+1 Pithing Needle
(+1/2 Golgari Charm)

Miracles
-3 Veteran Explorer
-4 Cabal Therapy
-1 Courser of Kruphix
-1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Qasali Pridemage
+4 Deathrite Shaman
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Extirpate

SneakShow
-3 Veteran Explorer
-3 Pernicious Deed
-3 Abrupt Decay
-1 Courser of Kruphix
-1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
-1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
-2 Siege Rhino
-1 Path to Exile

+4 Deathrite Shaman
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Extirpate
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Qasali Pridemage
+2 Golgari Charm

[Navsi]

Congrats on the result! I would love to read a report (if you have the time and feel like writing one, ofcourse).

How did the manabase perform for you?

I already wrote one - it's on page 166, post 3314.

Manabase was fine. I had issues against double/triple Ports in the Lands and Death and Taxes games, but I don't think changing the manabase would solve that. The main notes I had were:

- Massacre wants to replace Deluge in the wishboard
- STE was pretty bad due to only 5 basics. I think I'd rather have a second Wood Elves
- Primeval Titan was okay but a lot of the time when he won me the game, basically any large beater would have done so (thinking of trying Dragon Broodmother next time since Broodmother is very resistant to Liliana and makes blockers for Marit Lage).
- I want a third Needle / fourth Surgical / more sideboard slots. Thoughtseize might get cut but it helps a lot against Storm.
- 2 maindeck decays / 1 decay 1 kgrip sideboard felt okay. Could maybe cut the Krosan Grip. If I need to deal with a Batterskull or a Leyline of Sanctity I can always wish for Pulse.

[Ricardio]

I already wrote one - it's on page 166, post 3314.

Manabase was fine. I had issues against double/triple Ports in the Lands and Death and Taxes games, but I don't think changing the manabase would solve that. The main notes I had were:

- Massacre wants to replace Deluge in the wishboard
- STE was pretty bad due to only 5 basics. I think I'd rather have a second Wood Elves
- Primeval Titan was okay but a lot of the time when he won me the game, basically any large beater would have done so (thinking of trying Dragon Broodmother next time since Broodmother is very resistant to Liliana and makes blockers for Marit Lage).
- I want a third Needle / fourth Surgical / more sideboard slots. Thoughtseize might get cut but it helps a lot against Storm.
- 2 maindeck decays / 1 decay 1 kgrip sideboard felt okay. Could maybe cut the Krosan Grip. If I need to deal with a Batterskull or a Leyline of Sanctity I can always wish for Pulse.

Great job, bud. I think you want broodmate over broodmother. less mana intensive and better beater. K-grip doesn't seem necessary, theres just better cards to replace it like pulse.

[Tom4ik]

I run a k-grip in my bug midrange and when I had my bug fit deck. It is nice to be able to hit top and bskull (plus If you are on 3 deed against dnt grip takes care of revoker with mom) without any response. Pulse is good too and I think it should be in the 75 but grip is totally valid.

[Warden]

I run a k-grip in my bug midrange and when I had my bug fit deck. It is nice to be able to hit top and bskull (plus If you are on 3 deed against dnt grip takes care of revoker with mom) without any response. Pulse is good too and I think it should be in the 75 but grip is totally valid.

I agree with this logic. Kgrip also comes in handy when you just need to nuke a specific target but don't want to burn an abrupt decay and/or pop deed. Against DnT especially, there are times you can shoot down vial before they get started (freeing up your mana from being ported over the next X turns) or can split-second destroy an equipment.

@Bobmans: thanks for the feedback. You got me thinking about a lot of things. I'm not opposed to altering your list. Idk if I'd go Jund for my meta, even if it's a better call on paper. I'm still missing some cards and just don't have the knowledge to sequence spells/plays properly. Very comfortable with Junk colors.

[Bobmans]

I agree with this logic. Kgrip also comes in handy when you just need to nuke a specific target but don't want to burn an abrupt decay and/or pop deed. Against DnT especially, there are times you can shoot down vial before they get started (freeing up your mana from being ported over the next X turns) or can split-second destroy an equipment.

@Bobmans: thanks for the feedback. You got me thinking about a lot of things. I'm not opposed to altering your list. Idk if I'd go Jund for my meta, even if it's a better call on paper. I'm still missing some cards and just don't have the knowledge to sequence spells/plays properly. Very comfortable with Junk colors.

Feeling comfortable with playing a list/color is probably more important then the list itself. Edit: ok this sounds weird reading it back. Playing a worse list with more confidence is better then playing a better list without confidence.

Anyhow, if your not locking on to the specific list then i will probably change it to this:


3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Choke

[Ricardio]

4 path is a lot but I think its incredible in the deck.
why aren't you running any pulse or vindicate? Deed does a lot of work but sometimes you need something that can't be stifled, or hits lands or is 3 mana kill all those bitches.
Only 3 vet? we want that card asap in most matchups so we can do our thing. 4 vet/2 drs seems ideal.
Dryad arbor with 3 deed seems like a bit loose.
I'm a firm believer that this is THE BEST deck to play painful truths in legacy.

THESE ARE ALL SUGGESTIONS AND IN NO WAY MEAN TO UNDERMINE DECISIONS PREVIOUSLY MADE.

[Bobmans]

4 path is a lot but I think its incredible in the deck.
why aren't you running any pulse or vindicate? Deed does a lot of work but sometimes you need something that can't be stifled, or hits lands or is 3 mana kill all those bitches.
Only 3 vet? we want that card asap in most matchups so we can do our thing. 4 vet/2 drs seems ideal.
Dryad arbor with 3 deed seems like a bit loose.
I'm a firm believer that this is THE BEST deck to play painful truths in legacy.

THESE ARE ALL SUGGESTIONS AND IN NO WAY MEAN TO UNDERMINE DECISIONS PREVIOUSLY MADE.

4 path's means you can keep pushing creature combat, even against bigdude.dec your able to keep initiative or are able to find one pretty fast, it creates momentum.
1 Vindiwhateverremoval is good, A. it is only one and B. i found pushing ground combat often can just ignore targets for that removal.
3 Vet, there is room for 4, but since Warden has 2/3 decks where you board them out anyway. MD is 60 so going 61 is not a problem here.
Dryad Arbor does T-R-I-C-K-S and makes Meren so much better.
Agreed on Truth's, but i felt that with the match-up's going for some MD flexibility it be better to run other cards. Plus i still feel Nissa and Courser to match the decks plan better as CA rather then Pruths.

Undermine

[Ricardio]

4 path's means you can keep pushing creature combat, even against bigdude.dec your able to keep initiative or are able to find one pretty fast, it creates momentum.
1 Vindiwhateverremoval is good, A. it is only one and B. i found pushing ground combat often can just ignore targets for that removal.
3 Vet, there is room for 4, but since Warden has 2/3 decks where you board them out anyway. MD is 60 so going 61 is not a problem here.
Dryad Arbor does T-R-I-C-K-S and makes Meren so much better.
Agreed on Truth's, but i felt that with the match-up's going for some MD flexibility it be better to run other cards. Plus i still feel Nissa and Courser to match the decks plan better as CA rather then Pruths.

Undermine

I hate courser. he only dodges bolt and he just reveals everything you draw, of course if you have like running lands he nets you advantage but of course pruths is 3 cards right then and there for 3 mana(I know you cant gsz for it).
I guess arbor is cute.
I know we always argue this and neither party listens much to the other but 4 rhinos or find a new deck.

[rubblekill]

I hate courser. he only dodges bolt and he just reveals everything you draw, of course if you have like running lands he nets you advantage but of course pruths is 3 cards right then and there for 3 mana(I know you cant gsz for it).
I guess arbor is cute.
I know we always argue this and neither party listens much to the other but 4 rhinos or find a new deck.

Hahaha, I love it!
I agree that if the meta is blue heavy (every meta?) then 1-2 3 mana removal spells are better than path 3-4. As for truth, I hate it, but I'm still testing with it since you all seem to love that hype card. For the last week I've been playing with a single truth AND a single skeletal scrying: this one is awesome as a one of (more than one interferes with meren, drs, therapy, witness), the instant is very very relevant against grindy games or against control.

[Bobmans]

I hate courser. he only dodges bolt and he just reveals everything you draw, of course if you have like running lands he nets you advantage but of course pruths is 3 cards right then and there for 3 mana(I know you cant gsz for it).
I guess arbor is cute.
I know we always argue this and neither party listens much to the other but 4 rhinos or find a new deck.

I had some issue's concerning Pruth's and not being able to draw cards due to low life. This did come up more then once. Having that said, Courser sometimes lands and falls right into the graveyard leaving you with nothing.. play error? What i am actually saying is that the board needs to allow Courser to stick, same as with Nissa. That can sometimes NOT be what we want at that moment, where you wish to draw a Path and some pressure with Pruth's. That is exactly why i run both in my sig list, BUT that list was not the topic.
I hear ya 4 Rhino's, but still Thragtusk is an all-times heavy lifter in NicFit and deserves a spot against Miracles and is not half bad against Lightning Bolt Delver, Burn, Storm and whatnot. Even if that means cutting down a Rhino.

Speaking of trying to find a new deck... honestly, i tried... even now i keep buying paper and play... and know... NicFit...

[Bobmans]

Hahaha, I love it!
I agree that if the meta is blue heavy (every meta?) then 1-2 3 mana removal spells are better than path 3-4. As for truth, I hate it, but I'm still testing with it since you all seem to love that hype card. For the last week I've been playing with a single truth AND a single skeletal scrying: this one is awesome as a one of (more than one interferes with meren, drs, therapy, witness), the instant is very very relevant against grindy games or against control.

Yes, we all speak and forget to listen....

I am trying confirm or deny that A, Pruth's as a solid card, B, Going for streamlined is solid, and C, Going for a wider meta, at the cost of specific meta's, will pay-off in the bigger picture.

Skeletal Scrying has been on my radar for a while now... Glad to hear some experiences about the card.

[Ricardio]

Skeletor Scrying? I can get behind that cute tech.

I understand thragtusk is a must but I just feel like moar rhino moar better.

Removal wise, I like:
2 path
4 decay
1 pulse
1 vindicate
3 deed

but then again I like to kill everything forever and then sweep up with my skillerhinos