[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

Well I guess if the karakas thing is really an issue. DLK can easily be sided out when facing D&T.

But as we play a karakas ourselves, I found out that DLK protected by Karakas is game breaker against any miracle list not playing a karakas.

Sigarda is still very good as well but she can be countered.

Anyway a resolved DLK is usually game vs tempo (grixis & RUG).

every miracles list that isn't budget plays karakas.

We already have a good matchup against tempo.

Sigarda and tusk are just better than DLD in nearly every case.

As for having baneslayer for the grindy matchups, a non green creature is just worse than a pw. Ajani/Elspeth/ etc is far and away better than baneslayer.
Relentless pulls a ton of weight in those matchups not to mention we are one of the best grind decks so why over board.

I did cut c judg from the sb for a thalia since I saw someone talking about it and figured it was worth a shot. like a 3 pseudo canonist.

[Bobmans]

All this baneslayer talk, im going to have to switch my mb tusk to one and give it a go since nissa was so good.

I really fail to see why Baneslayer is so "hype" vs Dragonlord Dromoka; both are very similar...

1) Baneslayer is 5 CMC vs 6 CMC for Dromoka
2) Baneslayer requires WW
2) Dromoka is GSZable.
3) Dromoka is legendary (fears Karakas)
4) Both die to STP or Terminus (but only during oppo's turn for Dromoka)
5) Dromoka survives double bolt or 1 dismember
6) Dromoka can block any 6/6+ creature (save activated abilities to finish it)
7) Dromoka cannot block Baleful Strix & Grislebrand
8) Dromoka cannot be countered and opponent is forced to play at sorcery speed.

Do I miss something very relevant or what ?

My main issue with BSA is that lifelink is not really the best strategy in legacy, and we have plenty of means to gain life. Lifelink aside, Sigarda n2 or dromoka seem better options because they are green..right?

I prefer tuskerino. He is super solid against all decks.

He is probably better against miracles, while BSA shines against shard less..I will try the Angel in the sb for the grindy mus

Sometimes (mostly) my head spins. Our unparalleled logic... We are traveling in circles... We are, the Twilight.

So the conclusion is that one Dragonlord Dromoka and one Thragtusk are on overall better then two Bananaslayer Angel.

[rubblekill]

Sometimes (mostly) my head spins. Our unparalleled logic... We are traveling in circles... We are, the Twilight.

So the conclusion is that one Dragonlord Dromoka and one Thragtusk are on overall better then two Bananaslayer Angel's.

No, for me is: 1 tusk main and 0 DLD main , this is for sure.
In the testing slot ill try BSA only in the side because I'm having problems with shardless (am I a bad player? Maybe) and he Angel just flies over goyfs ftw
We were talking about 2 md BSA, while I will only test her in the sb, right beside the cutest new entry in the sb, giant solifuge. Don't judge me.

[Bobmans]

the Angel just flies over goyfs ftw
sb, giant solifuge. Don't judge me.

So does the Dragonlord.
Shroud, haste, GSZ'able sure looks attractive.

[rubblekill]

So does the Dragonlord.
Shroud, haste, GSZ'able sure looks attractive.

He is only there to kill jtms in the miracles mu. He has done good for me so far. "Green sun for 4?" "Sure" - hasty spider kills jtms while opponent has stp in hand. Horngasm.
Yes DLD flies against GB decks, but dies to karakas pretty hard. Karakas is a pretty common card online, probably because its worthless on modo

[Ricardio]

Sometimes (mostly) my head spins. Our unparalleled logic... We are traveling in circles... We are, the Twilight.

So the conclusion is that one Dragonlord Dromoka and one Thragtusk are on overall better then two Bananaslayer Angel.

I play tusk and sigarda. no bananas or d-lords.

He is only there to kill jtms in the miracles mu. He has done good for me so far. "Green sun for 4?" "Sure" - hasty spider kills jtms while opponent has stp in hand. Horngasm.
Yes DLD flies against GB decks, but dies to karakas pretty hard. Karakas is a pretty common card online, probably because its worthless on modo

I would just play needle in the side. better in more matchups. vindicate cleans up nicely.

[rubblekill]

I play tusk and sigarda. no bananas or d-lords.



I would just play needle in the side. better in more matchups. vindicate cleans up nicely.

Needles are the worst nonbo in that mu, where I always want to land a deed to be safe against anything non-jtms. I play vindicate already.

[Arianrhod]

Unless I'm playing specifically a Thune version, there will never come a day where I don't have 2 Baneslayers in white versions. The card has never been anything other than fantastic for me. I understand that may not be everyone's experience, but I've probably won more games off of Baneslayer than any other card in white, dating all the way back to when we used to run Kokusho and Yosei.

Thrag has become less and less attractive as time has passed -- he's just not scaling well into the timeline, unfortunately. He's better than his competition against exactly Miracles, and falls short everywhere else IMO. Even against burn, I would rather have ObBaloth -- coming down a turn sooner and being an X/4 is a often worthwhile trade-off for one less point of life and a 3/3 on exit...at least in the current format.

edit: I should note that 2 Baneslayer is in addition to Sigarda, because I think that if there's one thing regarding 5-drops that we're all agreed upon, it's that Sigarda owns her slot.

[Bobmans]

Thrag has become less and less attractive as time has passed -- he's just not scaling well into the timeline, unfortunately. He's better than his competition against exactly Miracles, and falls short everywhere else IMO. Even against burn, I would rather have ObBaloth -- coming down a turn sooner and being an X/4 is a often worthwhile trade-off for one less point of life and a 3/3 on exit...at least in the current format.

edit: I should note that 2 Baneslayer is in addition to Sigarda, because I think that if there's one thing regarding 5-drops that we're all agreed upon, it's that Sigarda owns her slot.

Still i've found Thragtusk very strong. On demand 5 life attached to a 5/3 body is really strong. I have had SOO many games where Swagtusk just pulled out of the negative (Burn or DnT even). Also against Storm where it meant the opponent to have to go for Storm 13 while got a 4 turn clock next to Drs and discard. The only reason i am not plating tusk in white is because all additional lifegain we run.

If anyone even thinks about replacing Sigarda with anything... should see a doctor.

[Ricardio]

Still i've found Thragtusk very strong. On demand 5 life attached to a 5/3 body is really strong. I have had SOO many games where Swagtusk just pulled out of the negative (Burn or DnT even). Also against Storm where it meant the opponent to have to go for Storm 13 while got a 4 turn clock next to Drs and discard. The only reason i am not plating tusk in white is because all additional lifegain we run.

If anyone even thinks about replacing Sigarda with anything... should see a doctor.

I just play against so much miracles online and I hate that deck so winning against it makes me giddy like a school girl.

[sdematt]

I just play against so much miracles online and I hate that deck so winning against it makes me giddy like a school girl.

Sure, but have we also just considered 2 Sigarda? Legendary does suck, but ideally you push with one until they Terminus, and then you rinse and repeat.

Needle is great in that matchup, because you have no real way to deal with Jace. If you turn off Top and non-bo yours, recall you have Sylvan and Truths, and possibly Scrying to keep you going. Jace is a real threat here, since you have no direct interaction like Fires/Blast. Vindicate is the only thing, and it's not like they don't have counterspells.

-Matt

[Ricardio]

Sure, but have we also just considered 2 Sigarda? Legendary does suck, but ideally you push with one until they Terminus, and then you rinse and repeat.

Needle is great in that matchup, because you have no real way to deal with Jace. If you turn off Top and non-bo yours, recall you have Sylvan and Truths, and possibly Scrying to keep you going. Jace is a real threat here, since you have no direct interaction like Fires/Blast. Vindicate is the only thing, and it's not like they don't have counterspells.

-Matt

gsz is the other sigarda. I like diversity. Im an old wooden ship kind of guy.

[Ralf]

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is one of the best anti jace card Abzan has access to if you ask me.

Cool tech against Miracle.

[Warden]

I really fail to see why Baneslayer is so "hype" vs Dragonlord Dromoka; both are very similar...

1) Baneslayer is 5 CMC vs 6 CMC for Dromoka
2) Baneslayer requires WW
2) Dromoka is GSZable.
3) Dromoka is legendary (fears Karakas)
4) Both die to STP or Terminus (but only during oppo's turn for Dromoka)
5) Dromoka survives double bolt or 1 dismember
6) Dromoka can block any 6/6+ creature (save activated abilities to finish it)
7) Dromoka cannot block Baleful Strix & Grislebrand
8) Dromoka cannot be countered and opponent is forced to play at sorcery speed.

Do I miss something very relevant or what ?

As I said a page or two earlier: Don't look at her on paper. play with her then discuss.

@Thrag: I think I agree with Arianrhod. He's having trouble scaling. Against burn I'd rather have Finks or Baloth (on top of obvious Rhinos and BSA).

[Echelon]

Rhino usually also is fine vs. Burn. It undoes a Bolt and stops the ground attack.

Burn isn't that hard of a MU though, so we shouldn't spend too much effort on that.

As far as Baneslayer goes: I wouldn't see why WW in its manacost would be a problem. I've hardcast Sigarda plenty of times. I am however of the opinion that we don't really need more 5-drops since Sigarda does an admirable job and hardly fails to close out a game.

You could always use that extra slot to speed up the deck a bit or run more Top/Sylvan Library type cards though.

Edit: Looking at Baneslayer objectively, I have to say it's an amazing card. All I need to find in order to run it is an easy and cheap way to tutor for it. Unfortunately that card would have to compete with GSZ, so this makes it rather difficult. Unless they print a new Fierce Empath that says "a creature card with power 4 or greater".

Edit 2: I could always switch out my flex slots for DRS #3 (also helps with the WW and ramping to 5 mana quicker) and 3 Baneslayer Angels.

It doesn't help us in the MUs where we need help though. Maybe this'll change in the future since it seems like a good fit vs. Eldrazi Stompy, but today is not that day yet. We're better off finding a way to shore up the anyStorm.dec & Miracles MU. Miracles might be tackled with Abrupt Decay and assorted planeswalkers, but that still leaves us with anyStorm.dec.

[rubblekill]

I'm curious about one thing, what are the bombs you all are playing in the sb, and for what particular mu do you need them?

The main deck is pretty much established for me, I am only varying cards in the side because I still haven't decided what are the best sb bombs for the mus in which I need them (miracles-shardless). I'm looking forward to seeing your selection.

[Echelon]

Currently my sideboard looks as following:
3 Duress
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rest in Peace
1 Qasali Pridemage

No real bombs there.

[sdematt]

2 Slaughter Games
2 Needle
3 Thoughtseize
2 Grip
2 Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Elspeth/Garruk/Sigarda #2
1 Teeg

[Echelon]

Anyone else?

You, rubble?

[Jain_Mor]

Sometimes I run Garruk PH and Elspeth/Ob-Nixilis instead of Tsunamis if I'm running Tsunamis.

Also, Legacy Leagues finally. Fiiiinnnneeeee I'll buy in, the legacy scene where I'm at now is a small tourney once a month