[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[nburns182501]

Wow, it's like that card was created specifically for this deck, lol. Incredible.

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[pettdan]

Regarding Sidisi, it seems like it would fit well or great in a Scapeshift deck which needs to get to 7 lands and tutor for a Scapeshift at the same time.

I'm kind of sceptical regarding its place in other versions. Sigarda can often end the game for the same cost, also with evasion, hard to remove and immune to Karakas, StP, Liliana and Jace. And Titania has similar features (at least when compared to Sidisi). While also GSZ-able, of course.

On the other hand tutoring for a deed or decay probably can help tip most games in our favor (without risk of losing a card when countered). And it could be nice to put a creature with a CIP effect into the graveyeard and fetch a Recurring Nightmare. So it looks like it will at least compete with Diabolic Intent in the decklists running Recurring + Intent. Maybe they'll even prove a stronger couple.

[sdematt]

4/6 Deathtouch is nothing to sneeze at either for 5 mana. If she was 3BG, she'd be in like that *snap*.

However, I do want to try her. She doesn't have evasion, but the tutor will certainly be nice. Does it replace Diabolic Intent? Maybe. Maybe not. But again, 4/6 Deathtouch instead of Intent, which the sac is part of the cost (which can be a downside if you have to sac a non-Vet creature).

-Matt

[pettdan]

Actually, another good use is sacrificing a token (Lingering Souls, Monastery Mentor, Garruk etc) which makes Sidisi look like a super wall of blossoms.

Speaking of Mentor, am I the only one who've been thinking of a list with him in a Nic Fit shell? Works well with Cabal Therapy and Sensei's Divining Top. As you all know two tops and a Mentor equals plenty of large tokens, every round. And I was thinking of playing some extra discard to help make it happen, like Liliana. Which is good with Souls. And so is Mentor.. Maybe Mentor is too vulnerable though. Then there is Recurring Nightmare to help bring it back. I guess I could try a Sidisi there as well then..

[Echelon]

So... I'm planning to run this concoction to my local Legacy tourney this weekend. Mostly for the fun of it, but what the heck. Apart from the manabase and some other cards, it isn't quite Nicfit but I'll post the list anyway. Consider it an over-the-top-Nic Fit, I suppose.

Creatures (26):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Fierce Empath
4 Summoner’s Egg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (12):
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Pernicious Deed

Land (22):
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

Haven't really decided on the sideboard yet, apart from 4 Cabal Therapy and a number of Carpet of Flowers.

This deck started out as a casual deck around the time Onslaught was printed (Nantuko Husk + a creature with Pattern of Rebirth to Symbiotic Wurm equaled good times) but over the years evolved to what it is today - a bunch of disruption, some ramp and a way to cheat in incredibly overpowered critters. I've tested this against a number of anyDelver.decs, Elves! and Dredge and it seems to perform reasonably. Due to all the durdling with Pernicious Deeds and Swords to Plowshares it tends to happen that you have enough mana to hardcast some of the cheaper bombs. Until you get to that point, you really have to play around counters & Stifles, since those hit the deck pretty hard.

The goal of the deck in this configuration is to stall, surprise and turn the game around with a single hard to answer threat.

So... Thoughts, people?

[Bobmans]

So... I'm planning to run this concoction to my local Legacy tourney this weekend. Mostly for the fun of it, but what the heck. Apart from the manabase and some other cards, it isn't quite Nicfit but I'll post the list anyway. Consider it an over-the-top-Nic Fit, I suppose.

Creatures (26):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Fierce Empath
4 Summoner’s Egg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (12):
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Pernicious Deed

Land (22):
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

Haven't really decided on the sideboard yet, apart from 4 Cabal Therapy and a number of Carpet of Flowers.

This deck started out as a casual deck around the time Onslaught was printed (Nantuko Husk + a creature with Pattern of Rebirth to Symbiotic Wurm equaled good times) but over the years evolved to what it is today - a bunch of disruption, some ramp and a way to cheat in incredibly overpowered critters. I've tested this against a number of anyDelver.decs, Elves! and Dredge and it seems to perform reasonably. Due to all the durdling with Pernicious Deeds and Swords to Plowshares it tends to happen that you have enough mana to hardcast some of the cheaper bombs. Until you get to that point, you really have to play around counters & Stifles, since those hit the deck pretty hard.

The goal of the deck in this configuration is to stall, surprise and turn the game around with a single hard to answer threat.

So... Thoughts, people?

I'd say the gameplan might be a bit far fetched, but surprising anyhow.

4 P. Deeds and Dryad Arbor don't combine well. So cut the arbor i suppose. Add a Bayou and a Savannah and cut down on the basics. P. Tower is fine, but you still have 4 Intent and 4 Cabal Therapy. Therapy should be maindeck instead of those Bloodthrone Vampires. Although 1/1 flying (or 3/3) can do some work stalling against aggro/tempo i think therapy can improve any MU. Also consider some number of Abrupt Decay in the mix with PDeed, Stp and Intent. 3/3/3/3 split? Decay takes down goyf or delver vs Tempo shells or Counterbalance vs Miracles which can be huge.

Seems fun anyway.

[Echelon]

The Arbor is mostly there so I can fetch it as food for Diabolic Intent (often so I can find a Pernicious Deed/StP, lol).

I do like those MB Therapies over the Vampires, especially since it lets you check your opponents' hand for permission/Stifle. The Vampires are a remnant of the Nantuko Husk-age, where they sometimes got to attack for the win. Nowadays that doesn't really happen anymore, so they kinda outlived their purpose. At best, I use them to eat an Explorer at the opponents' EoT. Also, unfortunately the Vampires don't fly. If only, lol. I also like the idea of running a number of Abrupt Decays. If not in the main, then definitely in the SB.

I've also been pondering on running High Market over Phyrexian Tower to pull off some Imp's Mischief shenanigans in the face of Stifle. Stifle the Summoner's Egg trigger? Meh, I rather not gain 1 life/give my Vampire +2/+2. The Egg and its triggers are the most vital part of this deck, so it's incredibly important to protect them. Then again, Cabal Therapy can also be used to protect the Egg pro-actively.

I'm not keen on cutting basics, I like being able to get a ton of land out and start hardcasting bombs. Also, as long as this deck has roughly 1 mana of each color, it's good to go. Also, the less lands left in the library, the more good stuff you draw. The manabase is fine as-is.

Edit: Alrighty, after some goldfishing Therapies to the main it is! The main now looks as follows:

Creatures (22):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Fierce Empath
4 Summoner’s Egg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells (16):
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Pernicious Deed

Land (22):
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

[thotcrime]

Blightsteel Colossus is strictly better than Darksteel when the plan is cheating it into play.


Are the Two Towers worth running in RhinoFit without PTitan? About to do some play testing against Lands. Hueueue

[sdematt]

Yes thwy are worth running.

[Plague Sliver]

Played some pre-board, post-board Junk Nic Fit practice games against a good Miracles pilot.

Observations:
- Baneslayer Angel wrecks us hard. If you aren't prepared for it and don't have Paths / Maelstrom Pulse, you are getting wrecked.
- Council's Judgment = bad. Council's Judgment + Snapcaster Cage = baaaaaaad.
- Gaddock Teeg is pretty hard to protect, especially if they have Karakas and you don't run Sylvan Safekeeper.
- He was running the UR God (Kerranos?) that draws a card or deals 3 to a target each turn. That got to be annoying.
- Thragtusk isn't all that effective, and the Beast token is too small to trade with Angels.
- No need to keep the Abrupt Decays, since you don't care about CB that much and he actually sided them out (not sure how frequently pilots do this).

Basically, it's not a conventional Miracles list and his alt-win conditions make it harder to Slaughter Games for value. Since we're replacing Explorer ramp with Carpet of Flowers, the deck can feel underwhelming as an overly "fair" deck here.

I'll have to keep testing the matchup, but I'm open to suggestions. One idea is to maindeck Elspeth, Knight-Errant in place of a flex-slot like Thragtusk.

[sdematt]

I can say I definitely haven't used Tusk in a while. I'd be open to shaving a 5-CMC and putting in Elspeth to see how it goes.

-Matt

[dave78pdx]

I've given in... I'm going Full Rhino!

Now, to work out the rest of the deck...


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[thotcrime]

Rhino is my new favorite card. I tested Titania tonight, it didn't help me win a single time. It was definitely a win-more card, and I'll probably cut the curve down to 4 for 4 Rhinos and a Recurring Nightmare. May also consider a second Phyrexian Tower.

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[Echelon]

Blightsteel Colossus is strictly better than Darksteel when the plan is cheating it into play.

If it gets you there in 1 turn, yes. If not, you might just as well have gone with Darksteel. If your opponent manages to answer the Blightsteel after surviving the first swing, you've essentially done 0 damage.

[Themucher]

Hey everybody just wanted to give a fast report on a tournament that happened this past weekend. as soon as i saw the punishing fire list i had to sleeve this thing up and test it. I fell in love in seconds.

while i wont have my full list on me right now i will edit my list to see what you guys think

the tournament was a small listing running 11 people, 2 of which kinda stumbled in with no competitive decks at all, funny when one of them beat burn because he was playing 4 elixir of immortality.

round 1 vs mono green ramp 2-0:
this was the guy running the 4 elixirs. obviously wasn't a competitive deck so easy win

round 2 vs manaless dredge 2-0:
yea this was a good friend of mine as we played dredge together even though i played the verison with the lands
game 1 was a rough match but was over quick. he dredged into 2 gprobes 2 narcos and 2 cabal therapy. he took 2 deeds from me but was left with nothing for either of us. i topped a deathrite shamen and then a scooze and easily won with 4 mana in play
game 2 he started with opening hand leyline of the void. i was stunned as i was not expecting it, but that was an oversight on my part as i forgot i am a graveyard deck when im not being fair. despite the leyline i landed the deathrite and scooze and won similar games only removing cards as they triggered ignoring all of his dredgers

game 3 vs miracles 2-1:
game 1: i thought this would be a fun match up and it was. we traded cards back and forth explorer getting all of our basics out of the decks very fast as i had all 3 exploreres early game. he did manage to win the game going 3 terminus' top decks (with the help of top) to stave off my recurring prime time and finished it off with a blind entreat for 6 tokens...lucky punk
game 2: this was an odd game that came when i needled a top and drew one myself but it was destroyed. saw that he brought in rest in peace against me, which i was expecting and had the decays and deeds to keep my pfires going and won with a huntmaster fairly favored on my side got him to misplay a few times but was still a decent match
game 3 we were down to 8 min left on the time and we were rushing. opening hand had 2 tops 2 needles and a huntmaster. snapkeep. he started with a force on the first top (i informed him that how bad it is to do that as he already did one mulligan and top wasnt a threat with his hand) he was good enough to scoop as when time was called i would have been 2 life short of killing him

game 4 vs ANT 1-2:
game 1 was a very fast win. i knew what he was on already as he only has 2 decks and he admitted that he wasnt going to bring the other one. kept a solid hand after he mulligans to 6. but he kept a 0 lander and never drew one. he did show me that hand after the match was over and if he would have drawn a single land it was a 1 turn kill through a force of will.
game 2 was a fast loss. i mulliganed to 6 and saw a keepable hand but had no sideboard or mainboard hate and he punished me with a turn 3 kill oh well it happens
game 3 was a tough one. it came down to a point where i had the ability to strip his hand apart and he had to go for it. deed was out he cast LED and then chained it back to his hand, which i knew was the bait for the deed but with 2 cards in hand he only had 1 out with a tutor and past in flames in hand so i called his bluff...he wasnt bluffing and i lost.


overall i still love this deck but i do need to pack more sideboard hate for the combo matchups as this deck beats so many of the fair decks as it is. i will be adding my list when i get a chance. TY all for reading. hope this gave some hope to the other people having problems with the list

[tomatojim]

@Themucher

nice, PFire! :)

on your Miracles match: I usually try to avoid using Explorers to ramp in this matchup, if I happen to draw one, I often just swing for 1 every turn. Ramping Miracles is really really dangerous. Did you board them out G2?

Greetings

[Ralf]

Hello Thread,

After some weeks of tests, I finally settle on the following Junk Fit list.
There is no fancy Rhino in there, neither cute things. Each one of the 16 creatures we play has its own purpose.
And, as always, GSZ is the glue that makes it work.

This is a pure attrition based Junk list which will surprise many opponents.
Here are some choice's explanations:

* Glissa : she is a damn fuckin wall with "You shall not pass" written in bold. As a collateral damage, she is "THE HOOF" eater and most of the time she will delay the alpha strike by a turn. Time is life.

* Acidic Slime: "The sneaky B." His effect is unique in the legacy scene. Easily the worst nightmare for any slow control deck or deck designed to go over the top. If you start looping him you will make your opponent's life miserable.

* Primeval Titan: to get your Twin Tower shenaningans going.

* Titania, Protector of the Argoth: Emrakul's nightmare and alpha striker on her free time.

* Sylvan Safekeeper: aka "The Boss". Here again, his effect is unique. He synergizes perfectly with Titania / Gaddock and usually says "F." to sword to plowshares deck.


Grinding Station by Ralf


1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Acidic Slime
1 Dryad Militant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer

1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Pernicious Deed

1 Golgari Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith


Sideboard

1 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Krosan grip
2 Thoughtseize
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dryad Militant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Golgari Charm


Happy to discuss.

[Bobmans]

* Glissa : she is a damn fuckin wall with "You shall not pass" written in bold. As a collateral damage, she is "THE HOOF" eater and most of the time she will delay the alpha strike by a turn. Time is life.

* Titania, Protector of the Argoth: Emrakul's nightmare and alpha striker on her free time.

* Sylvan Safekeeper: aka "The Boss". Here again, his effect is unique. He synergizes perfectly with Titania / Gaddock and usually says "F." to sword to plowshares deck.

It nearly feels criminal not seeing Rhino's in a Junk list nowadays.

Titania has been performing better and better lately. Friend of mine is running one in a PFire Maverick list and he is quite happy with the card. Running Safekeeper in the same list is an obvious choice. Do you have test results playing together in the list (or any other list for that matter)?

Glissa is a fine card. The combination of First Strike and Deathtouch is pretty awesome. If there would just be a way to get more value out of her ability. A singleton EE might be to random. Diabolic Intent perhaps?

I might consider testing all three in my PFirw list and see how that would turn out.

[uncletiggy]

4 Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Seige Rhino
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Plow
1 Path
1 Funeral Charm
2 deed
1 Golgari Charm

4 GSZ
3 Top
1 Recurring Nightmare

6 Basics
6 Duals
7 Fetches
2 Phyrexian tower

Sb:
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
1 Dryad Militant

Played in the super Iq in Baltimore to a 4-4-1 finish good enough for 63rd place.

U/W/R Dig 1-1 draw
esper blade 0-2 loss
U/W/R delver with pyro and tnn 0-2 loss
dredge 2-0 win
storm 2-1 win
goblins 2-0 win
turbo eldrazi 0-2 loss
merfolk 2-1 win
elves 1-2 loss

Punted game two round one to get slow played into a draw with him at 2 life to my sixteen dead on board several different ways wouldnt conceed.

Punted round three of elves on a risky keep of no green mana but a plow discard hand with charms and a top

All other losses were long grindy incredibly fun games.

Props- dryad arbor, militant, sofi, and funeral charm
Slops- batterskull, not having rhino #4 and recurring nightmare ( never stuck even managed to eat a negate I didnt think that saw play in legacy)

Moving forward -1 batterskull -1 explorer +1 rhino +1 deathrite

[hartigan]

I've been having some small success online with Caleb Durward's straight Green Black Nic Fit list, even winning some games against fast combo which are traditionally pretty bad, although I have yet to beat Show & Tell // Omnitell variants.

I took his advice on cutting a Skeletal Scrying and Courser of Kruphix for two Tasigur's and I've found two to be a little much, might be cutting one and putting a Skeletal Scrying or Courser of Kruphix back in but I haven't decided yet.

There was a Kitchen Finks in the Sideboard but I cut it and moved the Courser of Kruphix to it's spot which felt correct, unless I put Courser of Kruphix back into the main in which case I'll put the Kitchen Finks back in the board.

I think the most likely change I will be making is to cut a Tasigur and play Courser again, although I may end up cutting both and putting back the Skeletal Scrying as well... we'll see. Tasigur can really hose some decks, especially if you have a Sensei's Divining Top or Scavenging Ooze in play.

If anyone wanted the list here it is:

4 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Deathrite Shaman

3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Abrupt Decay

3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Eternal Witness

1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Thragtusk

2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Grave Titan

Sideboard:
1 Darkblast
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Engineered Plague
1 Dismember
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Reclamation Sage