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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

  1. #6241

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliq View Post
    Does anyone have a Lands matchup that isn't abysmal? I have no real way to interact with Thespian's Stage, and I don't think a few sideboard cuts are going to fix it. I faced the deck twice last night.

    I did have a very interesting game. My board was Thragtusk, Liliana, Jace, and a ton of land, at 23 life, against his board of Stage, Forest, Taiga. I had ultimated Liliana the previous turn and she was at 2 counters, and Jace was at 12. He is at 20 life. I pass to him, and he dredges Loam, finding a Dark depths. He loams, puts the depths into play, and passes with mana up to make a Marit Lage and 3 cards in hand. What do?

    I ended up brainstorming with Jace, looking for a Baleful Strix or more cantrips to find the Strix. I got one, playing it as well as another swagtusk, hit him for five, ticked up Lili, and passed. He made a 20/20 at my EOT and swung at jace, which I chumped with the Strix. On my turn I ticked Lili up, putting him to two cards in hand, and ulted Jace, leaving Jace at 1 counter and Lili at 4. On his turn he kills Liliana, passing with one card left in his library. I uptick Jace leaving him with only one turn and no outs. I did lose the match, however.

    The 3rd Ponder was awesome all night and I don't think I'll go back. I think I will add a second needle to the board.
    I am new to this forum as well as to Nic Fit as a deck I have Jund Fit built a none P.fire, and I use Blood Moon to beat lands its not an end all be all but it can slow if not cripple their game for a while. The best you could have done is not brain storm with jace at the end, but use his -1 bounce merit back to the hand...I think that is the best move possible during your match after you -12 on JTMS. I hope this helps

  2. #6242

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Beast within might help. I play one main instead of Vindicate because I like the instant speed and only G not wb. Someone suggested it pages ago and I like the idea.

  3. #6243

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    It might just be that my opponents have all been incompetent with the deck, but back when I ran two DRS main board I never had an issue with lands. I did often get lucky to have the path that stops the turn two lage, but drs helps so much in the mu especially turn one

  4. #6244
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Vestige View Post
    It might just be that my opponents have all been incompetent with the deck, but back when I ran two DRS main board I never had an issue with lands. I did often get lucky to have the path that stops the turn two lage, but drs helps so much in the mu especially turn one
    Not to be mean, your opponents had bad luck or were incompetent. The matchup is bad, whether it is control Lands or RG Lands. It's a fucking hard grind. Fires or the mini-Seismic are bad for us (killing Scooze/DRS). Basically, the only way to get there is Needle Maze if they don't have you dead to rights so you can attack, or hope for a quick Blood Moon and try to plug the board with garbage. I think Control Lands is the only one playing maindeck EE right now.

  5. #6245

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    When I beat lands its either because of multiple surgical extractions using eternal witnesses, or a hexproof creature with a SoFaI getting in damage past their Mazes and Fires. Plus occasional path or stp for a marit lage.

    But yea, not a matchup I'm gunning for. Thankfully the deck is difficult to get hold of.

    Also it looked like Ulysee had a winning line for your game state on the previous page?
    Last edited by Jain_Mor; 06-23-2016 at 07:41 AM.
    Junk and Stoned Rhinos.

  6. #6246

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jain_Mor View Post
    When I beat lands its either because of multiple surgical extractions using eternal witnesses, or a hexproof creature with a SoFaI getting in damage past their Mazes and Fires. Plus occasional path or stp for a marit lage.

    But yea, not a matchup I'm gunning for. Thankfully the deck is difficult to get hold of.

    Also it looked like Ulysee had a winning line for your game state on the previous page?
    Lands is everywhere up here, unfortunately. I think I'm going to jam a Back to Basics in the SB and see what happens, it also really hoses some other decks as well as shutting off Maze and really messing up their ability to get their engine going.

  7. #6247

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    @Cliq, did you see this post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysse95 View Post
    Why didn't you Jace bounced the token or use a leaving Lily to make him sac his token??

    It's a true question since I don't have all the game details.

    From what I see:


    You up Lily to put him at 2 cards. You ultimate Jace (bye Jace).
    He EoT put Marit into play, has no hand and two cards on library.
    His turn, he draw one (cant't even dredge).
    Has no choice but attack Lily (bye Lily)
    Your turn, whatever.
    He draws his last card, attack you putting your life at 3.
    Your turn, whatever.
    He can't draw and loose this game of Magic the Gathering.

    No?
    Junk and Stoned Rhinos.

  8. #6248

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jain_Mor View Post
    @Cliq, did you see this post?
    I can't remember, honestly. I think Jace may have actually been at 11, so I had to choose between ticking him up one more and losing him, or brainstorming. That or I just missed it until the next turn.

  9. #6249

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jain_Mor View Post
    I unfortunately don't have time to test most of the lists posted on here along with my own ideas. I tend to only try ones that have posted some results or have been consistently discussed for a while. Like rhino fit, rhino fit with red, SE fit and I'm looking to try Ulysse's enchantment build as my next thread-inspired testing. I like that it blanks a lot of what the format is attacking right now.
    I'm also trying (slowly) to test the enchantment build. My eyes are recovering from surgery or else I would have jammed several leagues already by now with it, I'm only 50 or so tix from being able to test it online. I did invite a friend over and slaughtered him with it - when he played Death&Taxes. When he switched to Shardless I had trouble with mana early on and clunky hands. Bumped up the GSZ count to 4 afterward to see if it would help find Vets early. Some of that was Hymn doing work, I'm sure post sideboard would help with the Leyline of Singularities coming in.

    So far I'm impressed. Don't even need Humility main - Starfield + Deed recursion just flat out wins. GSZ for Eidolon of Blossoms and you start drawing a ton of cards. End of turn Rector sac to grab Deed for emergencies...or just get Starfield end of turn, get back a used Deed from earlier, continue on.

    The only real thing I want to find out is what can be brought in from the side to defeat Miracles. It is always the bogeyman. Not sure if Assemble the Legion or if something more combo-y like Dovescape + Curse of Death's Hold would be better...or if other avenues should be persued. What I really want is just one single enchantment to bring them to their knees. One enchantment to rule them all.

    Also, the build is just a tad clunky, but tuning will help with that. The power level of Starfield is very high, I'm feeling, and helps excuse some clunkiness.

  10. #6250

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Found this one today..
    Thalia, Heretical Cathar

    Color: White
    Type: Legendary Creature - Human, Soldier
    Rarity: Rare
    Set: Eldritch Moon

    First strike

    Creatures and nonbasic lands your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped.

    Seems like d&t gets a new friend

  11. #6251

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    The only real thing I want to find out is what can be brought in from the side to defeat Miracles. It is always the bogeyman. Not sure if Assemble the Legion or if something more combo-y like Dovescape + Curse of Death's Hold would be better...or if other avenues should be persued. What I really want is just one single enchantment to bring them to their knees. One enchantment to rule them all.
    You can probably use Retreat to Emeria as an option that's very similar to Assemble the Legion without having to add red.

    On the subject of enchantments, how much could Miracles really do to Heliod, God of the Sun? Councils Judgment is their only way to remove him as long as devotion stays down, and you can just dump mana into him forever to make 2/1's. It seems to me like they would pretty much have to Moat you at that point.

  12. #6252

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    You can probably use Retreat to Emeria as an option that's very similar to Assemble the Legion without having to add red.

    On the subject of enchantments, how much could Miracles really do to Heliod, God of the Sun? Councils Judgment is their only way to remove him as long as devotion stays down, and you can just dump mana into him forever to make 2/1's. It seems to me like they would pretty much have to Moat you at that point.
    Isn't Bitterblossom significantly better?

  13. #6253

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliq View Post
    Isn't Bitterblossom significantly better?
    Very possible, when I suggested Bitterblossom a few weeks ago though it was shot down. I don't remember the exact reason but it will eventually kill you, and it matches up pretty poorly with Deed. On the other hand, it gets over Moat.

  14. #6254

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    I'm also trying (slowly) to test the enchantment build. My eyes are recovering from surgery or else I would have jammed several leagues already by now with it, I'm only 50 or so tix from being able to test it online. I did invite a friend over and slaughtered him with it - when he played Death&Taxes. When he switched to Shardless I had trouble with mana early on and clunky hands. Bumped up the GSZ count to 4 afterward to see if it would help find Vets early. Some of that was Hymn doing work, I'm sure post sideboard would help with the Leyline of Singularities coming in.

    So far I'm impressed. Don't even need Humility main - Starfield + Deed recursion just flat out wins. GSZ for Eidolon of Blossoms and you start drawing a ton of cards. End of turn Rector sac to grab Deed for emergencies...or just get Starfield end of turn, get back a used Deed from earlier, continue on.

    The only real thing I want to find out is what can be brought in from the side to defeat Miracles. It is always the bogeyman. Not sure if Assemble the Legion or if something more combo-y like Dovescape + Curse of Death's Hold would be better...or if other avenues should be persued. What I really want is just one single enchantment to bring them to their knees. One enchantment to rule them all.

    Also, the build is just a tad clunky, but tuning will help with that. The power level of Starfield is very high, I'm feeling, and helps excuse some clunkiness.
    In the limited testing I have had so far, beating miracles with it seems fine. The key is getting a Starfield out, and then casting as many enchantments as you can. That's where the Stering Groves are useful since you get to enlightened tutor every turn. You find deed so they can't kill you and then eventually you find Faith's fetters to shut down their Jace's and then another Starfield to stop council's or Venser bounce and you've won. Most lists aren't playing RIP anymore.

    I havent had time to play many post board games, I guess it gets significantly worse afterwards? But we get access to choke and carpets? Maybe they become favoured post board if they have RIP or surgical extractions, not sure? more testing required..
    Junk and Stoned Rhinos.

  15. #6255

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Given that the primer states that Nic Fit can be "hilariously" (and this is pretty funny) a budget deck, I genuinely want people's opinions on SaffronOlive's list from MTGGoldfish.
    Land (23)
    1x Dryad Arbor
    4x Forest
    1x Godless Shrine
    2x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Phyrexian Tower
    2x Plains
    3x Swamp
    1x Temple Garden
    4x Windswept Heath
    4x Wooded Foothills
    Instant (5)
    2x Abrupt Decay
    3x Swords to Plowshares
    Planeswalker (1)
    1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
    Creature (14)
    1x Deathrite Shaman
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    4x Siege Rhino
    1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1x Thragtusk
    4x Veteran Explorer
    Sorcery (11)
    4x Cabal Therapy
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    1x Maelstrom Pulse
    2x Painful Truths
    Enchantment (3)
    3x Pernicious Deed
    Artifact (3)
    3x Sensei's Divining Top
    Sideboard (15)
    2x Carpet of Flowers
    1x Choke
    3x Duress
    1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Extirpate
    2x Garruk Relentless Flip
    1x Krosan Grip
    1x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Toxic Deluge
    Note that while I am new to Legacy, this seems a little sketchy to me. Zero Hymns seems odd. And no this isn't troll. This is an actual list I found, and if people want to try Nic Fit on a budget this may be what they jump to first.
    Thoughts?

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  16. #6256
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    Given that the primer states that Nic Fit can be "hilariously" (and this is pretty funny) a budget deck, I genuinely want people's opinions on SaffronOlive's list from MTGGoldfish.
    Land (23)
    1x Dryad Arbor
    4x Forest
    1x Godless Shrine
    2x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Phyrexian Tower
    2x Plains
    3x Swamp
    1x Temple Garden
    4x Windswept Heath
    4x Wooded Foothills
    Instant (5)
    2x Abrupt Decay
    3x Swords to Plowshares
    Planeswalker (1)
    1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
    Creature (14)
    1x Deathrite Shaman
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    4x Siege Rhino
    1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1x Thragtusk
    4x Veteran Explorer
    Sorcery (11)
    4x Cabal Therapy
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    1x Maelstrom Pulse
    2x Painful Truths
    Enchantment (3)
    3x Pernicious Deed
    Artifact (3)
    3x Sensei's Divining Top
    Sideboard (15)
    2x Carpet of Flowers
    1x Choke
    3x Duress
    1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    2x Extirpate
    2x Garruk Relentless Flip
    1x Krosan Grip
    1x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Toxic Deluge
    Note that while I am new to Legacy, this seems a little sketchy to me. Zero Hymns seems odd. And no this isn't troll. This is an actual list I found, and if people want to try Nic Fit on a budget this may be what they jump to first.
    Thoughts?

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    No Hymns is correct; Hymn is garbage here unless youre straight GB, which you should never be.

  17. #6257

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    No Hymns is correct; Hymn is garbage here unless youre straight GB, which you should never be.
    Is it actually just fine as a starting list? I would consider using it if it is

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  18. #6258

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    Is it actually just fine as a starting list? I would consider using it if it is

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    I don't think it looks too bad. There are several of us who are moving away from Rhinos - you can read the previous dozen pages or so for more of that discussion. Basically, the beasts simply don't line up that well in current meta. Thragtusk still great, and the ratios of removal/card advantage/threats seems ok here. I do like 3 Decay, 3 Swords in my SFM list though. And Tireless Tracker I think has done well enough to deserve a spot in the "stock" lists. It's definitely not a bad list to start off with if that is all you have access to.

  19. #6259

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    Given that the primer states that Nic Fit can be "hilariously" (and this is pretty funny) a budget deck, I genuinely want people's opinions on SaffronOlive's list from MTGGoldfish.

    Note that while I am new to Legacy, this seems a little sketchy to me. Zero Hymns seems odd. And no this isn't troll. This is an actual list I found, and if people want to try Nic Fit on a budget this may be what they jump to first.
    Thoughts?
    What SaffronOlive typically refers to as budget is too low budget. I would say that if you want to budget the manabase you need the following:
    1 Bayou
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Canopy Vista
    1 Godless Shrine
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Marsh Flats
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Dryad Arbor
    7 Mismatched art white bordered basics

    That's not cheap but it's also not nearly as expensive as a blue deck.

    The list itself is good enough for what it is, not what I would play but I understand why each card is there. However I wouldn't play the Sorin or the Teeg, I would instead put that money towards dual lands first. Teeg is pretty niche and Sorin is a bit too new. If you're playing on a budget it's pretty important to stick to the proven cards rather than the latest fad.

    No Hymns is correct, sometimes the deck runs Hymns but it never runs all that many and you can't do it without a proper manabase. Hymn requires a very black based version and lots of DRS. Most lists are green based instead. Don't even think about Hymn without 17 shock damage free sources of black. If you want some discard to supplement Cabal Therapy go with Thoughtseize, Duress can serve as a reasonable budget substitute in the format. I've been experimenting with Tidehollow Sculler too but it's a pretty specific build where that's worth considering as your discard to supplement Therapy.

  20. #6260
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    What SaffronOlive typically refers to as budget is too low budget. I would say that if you want to budget the manabase you need the following:
    1 Bayou
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Canopy Vista
    1 Godless Shrine
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Marsh Flats
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Dryad Arbor
    7 Mismatched art white bordered basics

    That's not cheap but it's also not nearly as expensive as a blue deck.

    The list itself is good enough for what it is, not what I would play but I understand why each card is there. However I wouldn't play the Sorin or the Teeg, I would instead put that money towards dual lands first. Teeg is pretty niche and Sorin is a bit too new. If you're playing on a budget it's pretty important to stick to the proven cards rather than the latest fad.

    No Hymns is correct, sometimes the deck runs Hymns but it never runs all that many and you can't do it without a proper manabase. Hymn requires a very black based version and lots of DRS. Most lists are green based instead. Don't even think about Hymn without 17 shock damage free sources of black. If you want some discard to supplement Cabal Therapy go with Thoughtseize, Duress can serve as a reasonable budget substitute in the format. I've been experimenting with Tidehollow Sculler too but it's a pretty specific build where that's worth considering as your discard to supplement Therapy.


    I think if you're a meta of all Delver and other midrange, then quad Rhino is still fine. I think moving down to 2-3 is probably where you want to be nowadays in a more developed, balanced metagame. Card's still good. Just not against Miracles.

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