[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Brael]

Well, our local legacy nights finally started up, they're only every other week and limited to 3 rounds for time reasons but it's still some Legacy. The tournaments themselves are full proxy so there's a lot of people that just play any tier 1 deck they like, with perfect card availability the meta is fairly competitive. After getting Burn out of my system for the first couple tournaments (Price of Progress is so good when people overplay duals) I've been playing Nic Fit. I've played it 3 times now and each time I've walked away with a winning record at 3-0, 2-1, and 2-1 so I've been pretty happy with it. I don't remember all of the matches right now but last week involved playing against Metalworker (2-0), Reanimator (1-2), and Esper Stoneblade (2-1).

The list I'm playing right now is was inspired by the Zachary Schulz list in the primer but it's a bit different since I've been playing it. Basically I'm starting to learn what does and doesn't work and want to tweak my deck from here.

To the best of my memory this is what I'm currently playing, it's 61 cards.

//Land 21
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp

//Creatures 17
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Frost Titan

//Artifact 6
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
2 Birthing Pod

//Enchantment 4
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library

//Instant 6
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Brainstorm

//Sorcery 7
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

//Sideboard 15
4 Force of Will
1 Envelop
2 Riptide Pilferer
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Innocent Blood


The main issues with my list right now as I've seen in play is that my balance of top/library/brainstorm is off. Library is making the deeds worse while Brainstorm is often times just a top that I can't reuse. Would changing the list to 2 Top/1 Library/2 Brainstorm be better? Originally I thought 1 Top would be fine because Trinket Mage is effectively a second copy, but I find Trinket Mage's tutor effect to be overloaded. Sometimes I just need it to find me removal and pass on the Top. Being able to lighten that burden almost makes me want to go all the way up to 3 Tops. Am I completely out of my mind to think I can go -1 Library, -2 Brainstorm +2 Top +1 Creature (more on the creature later)?

Next comes the creature, I've played Pod in Standard, Modern, and now Legacy since the card was printed and I've come up with various ideas as to how many creatures I need. Generally I've come to the idea that 18 creatures is the absolute minimum (and you see that in my list 17+Arbor). I hit that but there's one big hole in my creatures right now, my 2 drop slot is small. I would like to work a Scavenging Ooze into the list, but I don't really have anywhere to cut from. Does anyone have a creature suggestion I could trim on? Maybe a Strix? Alternatively I could go with Nihil Spellbomb, over a Chalice of the Void I suppose but that puts even more work on the Trinket Mage. The advantage to Ooze though is that GSZ has some holes right now. I can cast it for 0, 1, 3, or 5. I have nothing green at 2 or 4 for it to hit and the Ooze would partially fix that problem. If someone can think of a green 4 drop to use I'm all ears.

When it comes to Frost Titan he has been fantastic. I know Grave Titan is usually a little higher used here but Frost Titan is amazing. Last week he beat a Blightsteel by tapping it forever, yesterday in a game for fun he was my answer to a Creeping Tar Pit out of Shardless BUG, he can color screw opponents, and more. I find the pay extra mana clause on him doesn't usually come up very often but his ability to tap things down can't be understated.

My last comment for now is in the sideboard. One of the creatures in Fate Reforged is Merciless Executioner how do people feel about this over Innocent Blood? Is 3 power (and the ability to pod for it) worth 2 mana?

[Whitefaces]

Looking forward to trying this idiot out in BUG pod :)



Pitches to FoW too!

I realize it's not going to be as good as other 6 drops, but podding into it then flashing back therapies etc seems like a lot of fun.

[Whitefaces]

The main issues with my list right now as I've seen in play is that my balance of top/library/brainstorm is off. Library is making the deeds worse while Brainstorm is often times just a top that I can't reuse. Would changing the list to 2 Top/1 Library/2 Brainstorm be better? Originally I thought 1 Top would be fine because Trinket Mage is effectively a second copy, but I find Trinket Mage's tutor effect to be overloaded. Sometimes I just need it to find me removal and pass on the Top. Being able to lighten that burden almost makes me want to go all the way up to 3 Tops. Am I completely out of my mind to think I can go -1 Library, -2 Brainstorm +2 Top +1 Creature (more on the creature later)?

Next comes the creature, I've played Pod in Standard, Modern, and now Legacy since the card was printed and I've come up with various ideas as to how many creatures I need. Generally I've come to the idea that 18 creatures is the absolute minimum (and you see that in my list 17+Arbor). I hit that but there's one big hole in my creatures right now, my 2 drop slot is small. I would like to work a Scavenging Ooze into the list, but I don't really have anywhere to cut from. Does anyone have a creature suggestion I could trim on? Maybe a Strix? Alternatively I could go with Nihil Spellbomb, over a Chalice of the Void I suppose but that puts even more work on the Trinket Mage. The advantage to Ooze though is that GSZ has some holes right now. I can cast it for 0, 1, 3, or 5. I have nothing green at 2 or 4 for it to hit and the Ooze would partially fix that problem. If someone can think of a green 4 drop to use I'm all ears.

When it comes to Frost Titan he has been fantastic. I know Grave Titan is usually a little higher used here but Frost Titan is amazing. Last week he beat a Blightsteel by tapping it forever, yesterday in a game for fun he was my answer to a Creeping Tar Pit out of Shardless BUG, he can color screw opponents, and more. I find the pay extra mana clause on him doesn't usually come up very often but his ability to tap things down can't be understated.

My last comment for now is in the sideboard. One of the creatures in Fate Reforged is Merciless Executioner how do people feel about this over Innocent Blood? Is 3 power (and the ability to pod for it) worth 2 mana?

First off, I think you're trying to cram too much toolbox into the deck. I've found 3 pods and 4 brainstorms has been enough, and GSZ just wasn't needed. As you've pointed out yourself, you have empty slots on the mana curve so aren't using it to its pull potential. The other awkward thing is it pushes you to play Dryad Arbor, which while being nice with pod to get a 1 drop (where's your DRS?!) it's terrible with Deed. While Library is a busted card, Pod is doing the heavy lifting here and it (library) dies to decay/your own deed too often. I wouldn't dream of cutting a Brainstorm, they're so much better than a one-shot-top. Being able to put creatures you want to pod into back into the deck is huge, as well as making the deck more streamlined, finding hate cards from the SB faster, hiding hate cards vs discard, putting the artifacts back for Trinket Make value...the list goes on. Just don't play less than 4 :)

With GSZ gone, that frees up a load of space, and you don't have to dedicate any of the creature curve to being green.

Trinket Mage is excellent, and I've included it in lots of my pod builds. But it's real power is finding SB cards. I wouldn't play Chalice of the Void or Pithing Needle maindeck. In some matchups they do nothing, and they have the same problem as library, getting swept away by deed. I'd put a Zuran Orb in the SB too if you have burn in your meta.

In regards to Merciless Executioner, we already had Fleshbag Marauder. I found being able to pod for it well worth the 2 mana.

[Paranoid__Android]

I was testing sdematt's Two Towers on Cockatrice and won every game. Games were against BUG Delver mostly. This is were Path to Exile really shined! Every BUG didn't had any basic to fetch in response. 12post was won 2:0 because of Cabal hitting and Rhino/DShaman -2 pressure.

First problem is lack of extra card drawing per turn. I was thinking of testing a few Phyrexian Arena. Life loss isn't really relevant since SCooze, DShaman, Rhino and Thragtusk give a ton of life. I had problems with Needle naming Top, so I thought of Arena as a replacement.

Second problem was that I was sometimes drawing too many lands. But I think that was pure ''luck'' really. Haha! :D

[Galentyn]

My experience with Sdematt's list was similar. Both in success and the feeling sometimes that the deck didn't need more life gain than was being given by the Rhinos. Basically, I'm testing -1 Thrag, +1 Titania. I agree it'd be nice to have more card draw but permanent based card draw has always been weak to our own Deeds. They've always had Karakas when I tried playing Tasigur over the 4th Rhino, but Tasigur is a Deed-proof way to draw cards late game and turn land flood into value.

The issue with Tasigur is that he's not Zenith-able but he might be something to consider if you're thinking about testing Phyrexian Arena.

Edit: There's also the pro-con of running Library for card advantage. If you're blowing yourself out with Deed (or working around the issue presented by permanent based card advantage), its possible it's better to trade your tops in for Library instead of running Arena

[jbone2016]

My experience with Sdematt's list was similar. Both in success and the feeling sometimes that the deck didn't need more life gain than was being given by the Rhinos. Basically, I'm testing -1 Thrag, +1 Titania. I agree it'd be nice to have more card draw but permanent based card draw has always been weak to our own Deeds. They've always had Karakas when I tried playing Tasigur over the 4th Rhino, but Tasigur is a Deed-proof way to draw cards late game and turn land flood into value.

The issue with Tasigur is that he's not Zenith-able but he might be something to consider if you're thinking about testing Phyrexian Arena.

I think if I was going to run Tasigur, I would run a Fierce Empath as well. Empath does grab Titans or the new g/w dragon if you feel like it.

[sdematt]

I think if you wanted more permanent based card draw, no one would blame you for cutting a Diabolic Intent and maybe shaving a land for 2 Sylvan Library. Sure, they die to deed, but when they're good, they're great.

I've found that sometimes I do flood. 23 lands isn't nothing. I think if I had to cut a land, it might be the Marsh Flats or one of the Towers. I really like the Towers, though, so I personally wouldn't cut them.

-Matt

[Bobmans]

I was testing sdematt's Two Towers on Cockatrice and won every game. Games were against BUG Delver mostly. This is were Path to Exile really shined! Every BUG didn't had any basic to fetch in response. 12post was won 2:0 because of Cabal hitting and Rhino/DShaman -2 pressure.

First problem is lack of extra card drawing per turn. I was thinking of testing a few Phyrexian Arena. Life loss isn't really relevant since SCooze, DShaman, Rhino and Thragtusk give a ton of life. I had problems with Needle naming Top, so I thought of Arena as a replacement.

Second problem was that I was sometimes drawing too many lands. But I think that was pure ''luck'' really. Haha! :D

Running Sylvan Library or Phyrexian Arena is probably fine, but you can't have it all.

I've always run 22 lands in a 61 card maindeck with 3 Sensei's Divining Top and 1 Courser of Kruphix. Top gets you 3 cards deep just like Library, but combined with fetch or GSZ you can shuffle and peek another 3 and get answers your looking for. Drawing them at instant speed or protecting something vs discard can be huge. The combination with Courser is that while you keep your regular draw it does also solve the problem from being flooded. Yes Peedle on Top sux, but that what we have Abrupt Decay and co. for.

Edit: cutting down on the two towers is a crime...

[Themucher]

Has anybody tried Ruric Thar in the jund version of this deck? i know its expensive but it does seem like a game breaker against quite a few decks

[Bobmans]

Has anybody tried Ruric Thar in the jund version of this deck? i know its expensive but it does seem like a game breaker against quite a few decks

Seems legit, might be a good finisher vs ANT. But a lot of times games vs storm are decided before we get to the point we are able to cast it anyway. So i think it might be to slow.

[Echelon]

Seems legit, might be a good finisher vs ANT. But a lot of times games vs storm are decided before we get to the point we are able to cast it anyway. So i think it might be to slow.

I've been toying with the idea of running Memoricides as anti-ANT cards. Might suffer the same issue of it being too slow but if you were to resolve it, you'd just have to name Tendrils of Agony to win the game on the spot.

[Bobmans]

I've been toying with the idea of running Memoricides as anti-ANT cards. Might suffer the same issue of it being too slow but if you were to resolve it, you'd just have to name Tendrils of Agony to win the game on the spot.

With 2 slaughter games in my jund list as a to go to standard i have never been able to fire it of even once against storm. Even coupled with 2 thoughtseize, 3 extirpate, 3 carpets and 2 REB's that matchup is though.

[Echelon]

Ever tried switching the Carpets for Dark Rituals?

Admittedly though, the Carpets are great vs anyDelver.dec so I'm not sure if that'd be the way to go.

[Bobmans]

Ever tried switching the Carpets for Dark Rituals?

Admittedly though, the Carpets are great vs anyDelver.dec so I'm not sure if that'd be the way to go.

Carpets are better then Veteran Explorers in that matchup. Carpets also forces them to play their manabase more thight creating slight room for errors.

Edit: offcourse every choice has its merits. Keeping 1 vetex in the list also creates room to go explosive with tower and slaughter games.

[Echelon]

VetEx lets you be rather explosive with Cabal Therapy... It's one of the last things I'd side out vs. ANT even though it gives them free land.

[Bobmans]

VetEx lets you be rather explosive with Cabal Therapy... It's one of the last things I'd side out vs. ANT even though it gives them free land.

I run a 3/4 split between vetex/drs. mostly i use drs to get a swing with therapy. Drs also has other advantages against ANT. Giving them free mana means speeding up their combo aswell. Pros and cons. Time to try 4/1 split since it has been bugging me for the last couple of weeks anyway. This will also make room for some other tech. 4th top and a md edict.

[sdematt]

ANT is a harder matchup. If you're waiting until Turn 4 to cast Cranial Extraction, it very well might be too late. Dryad Militant is quite good, or you could run a miser's Mindbreak Trap. Gaddock Teeg, discard, Safekeeper, Cranial, Militant, and Trap would be a nail in the coffin. I played against TES, which has more ways of winning, and it was quite close with this setup. Against ANT, it should be a bit better.

-Matt

[phazonmutant]

ANT is a harder matchup. If you're waiting until Turn 4 to cast Cranial Extraction, it very well might be too late. Dryad Militant is quite good, or you could run a miser's Mindbreak Trap. Gaddock Teeg, discard, Safekeeper, Cranial, Militant, and Trap would be a nail in the coffin. I played against TES, which has more ways of winning, and it was quite close with this setup. Against ANT, it should be a bit better.

-Matt

What about Leyline of Sanctitiy? Too narrow? Too bad Mindlock Orb shuts Nic Fit down too...that would be a sweet one against them.

[nedleeds]

Leyline is the best answer. It also buys time vs. Burn. Leyline isn't there to win the game it's there to buy time vs. storm. Plus Explorer Rock can cast it. Sack into Leyline, Explorer go with Cabal Therapy on deck is pretty good. Empty is a bit of a gamble in the face of deeds and/or charms. Buys you time to find Gaddock Teeg or some other lock piece / clock.

[Tittliewinks22]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting after lurking for a long time. My current deck of choice is Miracles because I really enjoy control archetype. When I played modern (before the Deathrite Shaman ban) I was really into the Gifts Control deck, I have the same handle name over at mtgsalvation, if you are interested in my early support for that deck type you can go see it there. Anyway, I've been toying with various Nic-Fit shells, and none of them have the control or grindy element's that I'm use too. I decided to do things a little unorthodox and drop the Green Sun's Zenith package altogether and splashed blue into my Abzan build for the card Gifts Ungiven. This is the current list I've been running, and it just meshes so well together. Please check out this list and give me any input on some choices I may have overlooked.

Gift-Fit
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
1 Unburial Rites

Sideboard isn't fully tested yet, but I've been having ok results with the following.
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize


Some explanation of card interactions:
Gifts Ungiven - After various failed attempts to port my favorite ex-Modern deck to legacy I realized at 4 mana this card is just too slow to handle some of the faster match ups Legacy can produce. When I stumbled upon the Veteran Exploerer, Cabal Therapy combo, I knew this was the ramp package this card wanted.
This card is one of the hardest cards to get use to playing with. What you tutor with Gifts Ungiven varies greatly depending on your board state. Here are two common packages that I get when play:

Sun Titan or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite + Unburial Rites - Way to cheat a fatty into play. While it may not be the most cost effective reanimation spell in legacy, its ability to flashback is what makes a lot of these packages more resilient.

Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime + Wasteland + Barren Moor - Reusable hand disruption and land destruction.

Not every package is a combo, sometimes you just grab a ton of value cards and benefit. Lingering Souls + Cabal Therapy + Eternal Witness + Unburial Rites - No matter what your opponent chooses, you get every card in this package available to you!

The two things that set this deck apart from its modern version are the additions of Cabal Therapy and Pernicious Deeds. With the few dredge cards in the deck, being able to hit Cabal Therapy has been huge. Having a Pernicious Deeds with Sun Titan can lock up a board pretty quickly as well.

Anyway, Please test out the deck for yourselves, I would love some input on any ideas I may have overlooked. Thank you.