[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[litenkatt]

^

You need Iona somewhere in the 75, that's certain

[Galentyn]

Your deck has the same issues as it does in modern except the weaknesses are magnified due to Legacy's higher power level.

Some of the weaknesses are:

- No counter spells.
- Soft to spell combo.
- Soft to decks that go bigger.
- Soft to wasteland
- A lot of emphasis on 1-for-1s as opposed to say Jund, which emphasizes 2 for 1s.
- Few ways to generate card advantage
- Threat light. (no GSZ)
- Getting Gift-Rites countered means you spent 8 mana doing nothing. It's a huge blow out against Remand in Modern and completely unacceptable in Legacy.

[Brael]

First off, I think you're trying to cram too much toolbox into the deck. I've found 3 pods and 4 brainstorms has been enough, and GSZ just wasn't needed. As you've pointed out yourself, you have empty slots on the mana curve so aren't using it to its pull potential. The other awkward thing is it pushes you to play Dryad Arbor, which while being nice with pod to get a 1 drop (where's your DRS?!) it's terrible with Deed. While Library is a busted card, Pod is doing the heavy lifting here and it (library) dies to decay/your own deed too often. I wouldn't dream of cutting a Brainstorm, they're so much better than a one-shot-top. Being able to put creatures you want to pod into back into the deck is huge, as well as making the deck more streamlined, finding hate cards from the SB faster, hiding hate cards vs discard, putting the artifacts back for Trinket Make value...the list goes on. Just don't play less than 4 :)

With GSZ gone, that frees up a load of space, and you don't have to dedicate any of the creature curve to being green.

Trinket Mage is excellent, and I've included it in lots of my pod builds. But it's real power is finding SB cards. I wouldn't play Chalice of the Void or Pithing Needle maindeck. In some matchups they do nothing, and they have the same problem as library, getting swept away by deed. I'd put a Zuran Orb in the SB too if you have burn in your meta.

In regards to Merciless Executioner, we already had Fleshbag Marauder. I found being able to pod for it well worth the 2 mana.

Thanks for the response. It's possible I'm putting too much in. I'm finding I don't want 3 pods, with the power to dig for them between Library, Brainstorm, and Top I can get away with less and the creature count means there's little value in having multiple pods active. I'm finding 2 to be the right number. This plays into the reduced Brainstorm count too, with fewer Pods it's less important to put something back into my library so I can pod it out and the deck generally has plenty of mana to cast it's spells. So I'm more interested in finding things than in podding for value. Pod is just another way to find those things.

I do think that I'm going to try fewer Libraries, I really like them but I'm finding that my usual play is to just take cards from it, almost no matter what they are so that I can guarantee value through a blown up Deed, or a Decay, or anything else. I can probably get the same general benefit from more tops/shuffle effects at a lower cost. I do really like the T1 GSZ though, I'm not so interested in podding GSZ to a 1 drop as I am in having 3 or 4 mana on turn 2. That lets me play a bigger guy and start winning through the board, it's also quite handy being able to convert a GSZ into a Cabal Therapy flashback in certain matchups. DRS isn't in because I can't find the room. If I run any it will probably only be one, but for now the slots are at a premium and I think I could get better utility out of a Scavenging Ooze at 2 than a DRS at 1.

I've gotten a lot of g1 value out of the Pithing Needle, less out of the Chalice but the theory was I have the ramp and the relative lack of 2 drops to make a Chalice on 2 good in game 1. Switching from Library to more Brainstorm/Top would make that more true. Chalice on 1 is always nice too. But, it hasn't really performed as well as I would like so the Chalice will likely become something else. Zuran Orb seems like a good suggestion.

[Echelon]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting after lurking for a long time. My current deck of choice is Miracles because I really enjoy control archetype. When I played modern (before the Deathrite Shaman ban) I was really into the Gifts Control deck, I have the same handle name over at mtgsalvation, if you are interested in my early support for that deck type you can go see it there. Anyway, I've been toying with various Nic-Fit shells, and none of them have the control or grindy element's that I'm use too. I decided to do things a little unorthodox and drop the Green Sun's Zenith package altogether and splashed blue into my Abzan build for the card Gifts Ungiven. This is the current list I've been running, and it just meshes so well together. Please check out this list and give me any input on some choices I may have overlooked.

Gift-Fit
Deck


Some explanation of card interactions:
...

Anyway, Please test out the deck for yourselves, I would love some input on any ideas I may have overlooked. Thank you.

Well, if you like cheating bombs onto the battlefield, you can try the Bacon & Eggs-list. The updated list (minus SB) looks somewhat like this:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
4 Summoner's Egg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Diabolic Intent


It durdles a little bit less than the Gifts Ungiven-list and also performs quite reasonably . The removal suite can be tinkered with and you might be able to cut a Diabolic Intent, perhaps adding another removal card or Zenith. Also, the Darksteel Colossus could be a Worldspine Wurm as well. I'm still pondering on that one.

[sdematt]

What about Leyline of Sanctitiy? Too narrow? Too bad Mindlock Orb shuts Nic Fit down too...that would be a sweet one against them.

It's too many slots against just ANT. I don't want to remove Thoughtseizes since you want those in other matchups, as with the other cards. I think if I was playing more in Seattle, I'd be running more combo hate for sure.

-Matt

[Arianrhod]

What about Leyline of Sanctitiy? Too narrow? Too bad Mindlock Orb shuts Nic Fit down too...that would be a sweet one against them.

That doesn't stop Nic Fit from being able to run it. Nic Fit has a long, storied history of salt the earth techniques. I'll happily saw off my own foot if it means that the opponent CANNOT win, regardless of how badly it cripples me. See also: (white) Nic Fits used to run Humility in the sideboard for vs Sneak/Show to great effect.

Note that white versions already frequently employ this effect in the (1-sided) form of Aven Mindcensor, conveniently castable on turn 2 after Therapy/Explorer.

---------

Glad to see the thread is still populated and actually seems to have grown. I'll probably be actively playing again in about two months, so I should be more helpful then rather than just drifting in and sniping peoples' posts.

[Khamul]

Hey guys, I've decided to post in this thread in hopes of getting some suggestions for my BUG Pod list. I've played it at the Legacy Event in Milano, and went poorly with it - 2-5. Won against BUG Delver and Soldier Stompy, lost against Sneak-Show, Omni-Tell, MUD, Dredge and ANT.

The list I ran was:

Creatures (23):
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Shriekmaw
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Thragtusk
1 AEtherling
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Spells (16):
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Dig Through Time
1 Abrupt Decay

Lands (21):
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard (15):
4 Force of Will
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Riptide Pilferer
1 Notion Thief
1 Memoricide
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Dimir Charm
1 Negate

Tried to metagame a bit against Miracles, that's why I included the Manlands and AEtherling. Nearly all of the cards performed good during the tournament, except AEtherling and Hermit, I'll gonna replace them, AEtherling's substitute will most likely be Grave Titan. And Tasigur's gonna get cut along with Dig and the Decay for a Trinket Mage alongside Top and EExplosives (and a Pithing Needle in the Board - most likely over Memoricide).

But here's my first question: What is a good 5-Drop to run? I'm not impressed by Acidic Slime, and Sidisi, Undead Vizier doesn't do it for me either. Am I missing something about Slime? I mean, I could rearrange a bit of my curve (like when I run Slime, a 4-Drop Slot's gonna be free because Wickerbough Elder can go).

There we come to my second question:
Can I adjust my list anyhow to not lose that horribly against the matchups I faced preboard (except those very rare god hands)? How should I readjust my Pod line for an open Meta? I've tried out many cards like:
Reclamation Sage
Bone Shredder
Man-o'-War
Sower of Temptation
Obstinate Baloth
Entomber Exarch
and none of those impressed me.

Is there any other 2-Drop that can mess up with Combo early? I'm really not that impressed by Mesmeric Fiend and Ravenous Rats either. Pilferers are good, but imo not maindeckable.

[sdematt]

A few people have been asking for a Jund build out of me, so this is what I might run:

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vraska the Unseen/Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rampaging Baloths/Broodmate Dragon/Big Fatty
1 Huntmaster of the Fells

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands

SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

I was doing some tutoring last night on Punishing Fit and the list looks like fun. I'll try to branch out and try to get some testing in. I'm thinking two Thrun is better just because with all the Council's Judgment floating around, at least locally, I want to hit another. Card's REALLY good in the matches where it matters and we don't have Sigarda in this. Games is obviously insane.

[Bobmans]

A few people have been asking for a Jund build out of me, so this is what I might run:

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vraska the Unseen/Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rampaging Baloths/Broodmate Dragon/Big Fatty
1 Huntmaster of the Fells

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands

SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

I was doing some tutoring last night on Punishing Fit and the list looks like fun. I'll try to branch out and try to get some testing in. I'm thinking two Thrun is better just because with all the Council's Judgment floating around, at least locally, I want to hit another. Card's REALLY good in the matches where it matters and we don't have Sigarda in this. Games is obviously insane.

Thragthusk? It does leave a 3/3 after it is removed by council's judgment. Hefproof and regenerate do matter on the other hand.
4 Groves is the best number to go to, makes one care less about Wasteland.
Courser of Kruphix works really well with Rampaging Baloth. Both cards are certainly underestimated.
Ive tried Charnelhoard Wurm in that slot, once it connects it is a monster. But cmc 7 is tricky. Next thing to try is Ruric Thar. Good suggestion.
REB is the card i am having doubt about. Not sure what to replace it with. Finding ways to get rid of Grisel/Emrakul/Marit Lage after those hit the board has more prio then the effect of REB.

[jdtheblightdragon]

Hey, guys! Where does everyone think the ScapeWish version of Nic Fit belongs? Is the Abzan version considered the best overall version currently?

[Bobmans]

Hey, guys! Where does everyone think the ScapeWish version of Nic Fit belongs? Is the Abzan version considered the best overall version currently?

JUNK is popular no doubt, but still Scapewish and BUG pod has the most highest placings when checking out on tcdecks/mtgdecks. I've never seen Rhino lists in T8/16.

[sdematt]

I mean, even though it might be "popular," how many people are actually playing it on the planet. 30? :P

I've won and Top 8'd many local events, but I haven't been to an event with over 50 in a few months. Stupid school :/

-Matt

[Bobmans]

For now i have switched my PFire list. Big changes are MD Slaughter Games and Thrun is back. After playing some games against Jund and PFire Maverick i am already happy with the changes. Naming KotR on Slaughter Games G1 i won instead of losing to a quick Marit Lage. Also Thrun wins vs PFire, bolt and Swords, so happy.

4 veteran explorer
1 deathrite shaman
1 scavenging ooze
1 eternal witness
1 courser of kruphix
1 thrun, the last troll
1 huntmaster of the fells
1 thragtusk
1 primeval titan
4 green sun's zenith
3 sensei's divining top
4 cabal therapy
3 pernicious deed
3 abrupt decay
3 liliana of the veil
3 punishing fire
1 maelstrom pulse
1 vraska the unseen
2 slaughter games
2 bayou
1 taiga
1 badlands
3 forest
2 swamp
1 mountain
3 verdant catacomb
2 wooded foothills
1 bloodstained mire
4 grove of the burnwillows
1 phyrexian tower
1 volrath's stronghold

Sb:
3 carpet of flowers
2 red elemental blast
2 thoughtseize
2 extirpate
1 pithing needle
1 diabolic edict
1 krosan grip
1 toxic deluge
1 golgari charm
1 garruk relentless

Edit: the thought behind MD Slaughter Games is that it van snipe ANT or other combo decks, especially with Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer. Winning G1 vs fast combo just gives so much room for the MU. Slaughter Games can always hit something important in any matchup so it is never dead.

[Megadeus]

Buddy said he got crushed by a Titania Nic Fit deck with DD combo... Sounds sweet. Was that one of you? If so, list?

[Whitefaces]

Here's a BUG pod list I played at my LGS last week. Went 3-1, losing to Shardless BUG in the last round. Beating a weird Animate Land/Unnatural Selection/Griffin Canyon deck, Sneak and Show and Enchantress.

1 DRS
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan

4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Birthing Pod

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou

SB
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Envelop
2 Duress

I can't remember the rest this second actually, but it was mostly combo hate.

[bryanzoll]

Might as well post an updated ScapeWish build since everyone else is sharing their different flavored NicFit lists:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Scapeshift
4 Burning Wish

3 Abrupt Decay

4 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroblast
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Thoughtseize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Ruination
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift

I play on MTGO a lot with it and I don't have issues with most decks out there. Your toughest matchups are going to be OmniTell, Sneak and Show, and any fast combo deck. I am roughly 55/45 with them post-board as it all depends on how good your draws are.

It stomps all other decks. The only way you really lose is if you beat yourself.

[Paranoid__Android]

I'm going on a small casual legacy tournament not far from my city. We know all the players there, and they know us. I've always played Junk before, and got very very unlucky a few times.
sdmatt's Two Towers testing is going very well and I've tested it against many decks on Cockatrice. Results are great. 70% wins/30% losses. Since I know their meta there this is what I've summed up for building sideboard (and main maybe):

01. Oops! All Spells/In side Belcher I think -> Gravehate/Hexproof, Discard, Rule of Law Effect, Deed/EPlague

02. Reanimator -> Gravehate, Discard (reanimate spells)

03. Dredge -> Gravehate, (maybe) Rule of Law effect

04. Death (without taxes I think) - Removal, discard

05. Infect -> removals, mass removals, discard

06. Hypergenesis -> Discard, Rule of Law effect, Humility (maybe??, to shut down big fatties)

07. Shardless BUG ->Discard, Hexproof (Leyline to be correct), removal

08. Punishing Jund -> Gravehate, Discard, Removal

09. Merfolk -> Removal, discard

10. Miracles (maybe) -> Discard, Carpets (??)

I've written all down, and last things to do are build a sideboard, and write down to remember what to name with T1/T2 Therapy G1 against every deck. Mainboard changes were -1 Thragtusk with +1 Titania, Protector of Argoth.

Help is appreciated. Thank you very much. :D

[bryanzoll]

I'm going on a small casual legacy tournament not far from my city. We know all the players there, and they know us. I've always played Junk before, and got very very unlucky a few times.
sdmatt's Two Towers testing is going very well and I've tested it against many decks on Cockatrice. Results are great. 70% wins/30% losses. Since I know their meta there this is what I've summed up for building sideboard (and main maybe):

01. Oops! All Spells/In side Belcher I think -> Gravehate/Hexproof, Discard, Rule of Law Effect, Deed/EPlague

02. Reanimator -> Gravehate, Discard (reanimate spells)

03. Dredge -> Gravehate, (maybe) Rule of Law effect

04. Death (without taxes I think) - Removal, discard

05. Infect -> removals, mass removals, discard

06. Hypergenesis -> Discard, Rule of Law effect, Humility (maybe??, to shut down big fatties)

07. Shardless BUG ->Discard, Hexproof (Leyline to be correct), removal

08. Punishing Jund -> Gravehate, Discard, Removal

09. Merfolk -> Removal, discard

10. Miracles (maybe) -> Discard, Carpets (??)

I've written all down, and last things to do are build a sideboard, and write down to remember what to name with T1/T2 Therapy G1 against every deck. Mainboard changes were -1 Thragtusk with +1 Titania, Protector of Argoth.

Help is appreciated. Thank you very much. :D

Do you have containment priests? If so, they will handle Hypergenesis, Dread Returns, Ichorid, Reanimator, and Aether Vial effects (Merfolk / death and taxes).

[Bobmans]

Also consider Surgical Extraction against Oops since it is also the only way to interact T1 on the draw.

[Paranoid__Android]

I've bought them, but they will come a week after the tournament, so Priests are out. But, guys from there said that if you need something, you can proxy it. :D